An Orthodox Pope?

[Cyrillic]

I don't know if the fact that the RCC would have to be accepted into Orthodoxy just like any other mass conversion of any other non-Orthodox group is taken into account.  Perhaps it would just be made to be in communion by gesture and prayer, it really would depend on the Patriarch of Constantinople and the synod attached to him.  Only then when a true Roman Patriarch is re-established would there be an Orthodox pope.

For one thing, the Vatican has parishes and bishops in the jurisdiction of every Orthodox Church.  Even Greece.

Even in Sinai?

[sheenj]

No Orthodox Pope for me, thanks

Has Alexandria now been stricken from the diptychs?

[Cyrillic]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

[Romaios]

I don't know if the fact that the RCC would have to be accepted into Orthodoxy just like any other mass conversion of any other non-Orthodox group is taken into account.  Perhaps it would just be made to be in communion by gesture and prayer, it really would depend on the Patriarch of Constantinople and the synod attached to him.  Only then when a true Roman Patriarch is re-established would there be an Orthodox pope.

For one thing, the Vatican has parishes and bishops in the jurisdiction of every Orthodox Church.  Even Greece.

Even in Sinai?

Just the occasional uniate Bedouin. Maybe a Jesuit Chorepiskopos or two, saying Latin Mass in some tent. 

I'm sure there are already plans to build the New Sinai somewhere in the peninsula.

[Ersaia]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

[sheenj]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

What do you call the Pope of Alexandria?

You call him: Πάπας και Πατριάρχης Αλεξανδρείας και πάσης Αφρικής.

[Cyrillic]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

Ah yes. I never memorise the accents. Thanks.

[Ersaia]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

What do you call the Pope of Alexandria?

Patriarxi in greek (patriarh)

you can open the site http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/
they also use the word Patriarch in main menu (greek and english) as you can see...

[Romaios]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

Ah yes. I never memorise the accents. Thanks.

They do make a difference. I'm not sure how big in this case.

I think they glossed Papa as pater patrum ("Father of fathers"). That would make him a παππούς in Greek?

[ialmisry]

why?
Do you want to go in a plaza and cry because you can see the pope?
why?
Pope and all these-pope-worship is something completely strange for me
and what about this papal infallibility?
who is he?


No Orthodox Pope for me, thanks

We have one, and if you want to remain in communion, so do you:

I am absolutely sure that he don't think he is what the Pope of Rome consider he is. He is just one of our Patriarchs.

He doesn't worry what the "Pope of Rome" thinks.  Why do you?

[Romaios]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

What do you call the Pope of Alexandria?

You call him: Πάπας και Πατριάρχης Αλεξανδρείας και πάσης Αφρικής.

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

[sheenj]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

What do you call the Pope of Alexandria?

Patriarxi in greek (patriarh)

you can open the site http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/
they also use the word Patriarch in main menu (greek and english) as you can see...

O Rly?

[Cyrillic]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

[ialmisry]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

we call the Pope of Alexandria Baabaa.  The Greeks call him Pápas

[ialmisry]

Ersaia, aren't all priests over there in Elláda called pappas.

we call any priest -> papás
we call the pope of rome ->  Pápas

What do you call the Pope of Alexandria?

Patriarxi in greek (patriarh)

you can open the site http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/
they also use the word Patriarch in main menu (greek and english) as you can see...

O Rly?

How do you do that?

[Romaios]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

Yeah, "Judge of the Universe" rulz!   

[Cyrillic]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

Yeah, "Judge of the Universe" rulz!  

It's even better than Vicar of Christ 

[Ersaia]

dear it's his title and they must write it
but as you can see in the main menu they use the word Patriarch not the word Pope

anyway we use the word Patriarch mostly, you will read the word Pope only in officiall papers etc

[Cyrillic]

dear it's his title and they must write it
but as you can see in the main menu they use the word Patriarch not the word Pope

anyway we use the word Patriarch mostly, you will read the word Pope only in officiall papers etc

Btw, is the text sheenj posted Katharevousa?

[Romaios]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

Yeah, "Judge of the Universe" rulz!  

It's even better than Vicar of Christ 

One must needs be Vicar of Christ to judge the Universe: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Mat. 28:18)

[Cyrillic]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

Yeah, "Judge of the Universe" rulz! 

It's even better than Vicar of Christ 

One must needs be Vicar of Christ to judge the Universe: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Mat. 28:18)

Ah well, I just laugh at all those poetic titles Patriarchs gave themselves through the ages. I guess they're not meant to be taken too serious.

[Ersaia]

dear it's his title and they must write it
but as you can see in the main menu they use the word Patriarch not the word Pope

anyway we use the word Patriarch mostly, you will read the word Pope only in officiall papers etc

Btw, is the text sheenj posted Katharevousa?

no, it's modern greek. (katharevousa has many different accents, modern greek only one)

[Romaios]

dear it's his title and they must write it
but as you can see in the main menu they use the word Patriarch not the word Pope

anyway we use the word Patriarch mostly, you will read the word Pope only in officiall papers etc

Btw, is the text sheenj posted Katharevousa?

Hardly - the plain common Greek of today. Polytonika seem to survive only on Mount Athos. Monk Moses Hagiorites is the foremost example I can think of, whose Greek could be seen as katharevousa. He is my favourite contemporary hagiographer.

[Cyrillic]

Hardly - the plain common Greek of today. Polytonika seem to survive only on Mount Athos. Monk Moses Hagiorites is the foremost example I can think of, whose Greek could be seen as katharevousa. He is my favourite contemporary hagiographer.

Sometimes I ask myself whether you're Greek.

[Romaios]

Hardly - the plain common Greek of today. Polytonika seem to survive only on Mount Athos. Monk Moses Hagiorites is the foremost example I can think of, whose Greek could be seen as katharevousa. He is my favourite contemporary hagiographer.

Sometimes I ask myself whether you're Greek.

Geek, rather. 

But I am flattered, nevertheless...

[Cyrillic]

Hardly - the plain common Greek of today. Polytonika seem to survive only on Mount Athos. Monk Moses Hagiorites is the foremost example I can think of, whose Greek could be seen as katharevousa. He is my favourite contemporary hagiographer.

Sometimes I ask myself whether you're Greek.

A Geek, rather. 


But I am flattered, nevertheless...

And then people call me crazy for my obsession with Greek 


And yes, Geek should be a nationality.

[sheenj]

How do you do that?

If you use Windows 7 they have a program called Snipping Tool. It's under accessories and it lets you take screenshots by using your mouse to select the area you want saved. It also lets you highlight and mark up the picture before you save it.

[ialmisry]

Oh, that and Κριτὴς τῆς Οἰκουμένης - "Judge of the world"...

In some older documents I saw Κριτὴς τοῦ Κόσμου. Τhat one's even better.

Yeah, "Judge of the Universe" rulz!  

It's even better than Vicar of Christ  

One must needs be Vicar of Christ to judge the Universe: "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth." (Mat. 28:18)

Ah well, I just laugh at all those poetic titles Patriarchs gave themselves through the ages. I guess they're not meant to be taken too serious.

Actually it was given (along with two crowns) by the Emperor of the Romans and the EP, whom Pope Theophilos II (1010-1020) had reconciled:

During his tenure as Patriarch the persecution of Christians By Al Hakim became even more fierce, and many of them became Islamists or sought refuge in other countries. During these years, Theophilos was living in Constantinople as he could not stay in Egypt . He intervened in the dispute between Emperor Vasilios Voulgaroktonos (975-1025) and Patriarch Sergios II of Constantinople (999-1019) on whether or not to enforce the law  of “solidarity”, and led the two to conciliation. From that time the Patriarch of Alexandria was given the title of “Judge of the Universe”, with the added privilege of wearing a second stole (Kritato).

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=content&cid=001003&id=141&lang=en

the title of (Ecumenical judge was assumed by Theophilus, patriarch of Alexandria, A.D. 1000, on account of the reconciliation he eflected between the Emperor Basil III., and Sergius patriarch of Constantinople. The cause of the quarrel was that the patriarch had spoken ill of the emperor, and the emperor had laid violent hands on the patriarch. They had recourse to the judgment of the Lord of Alexandria, who having made two wax figures, one of the emperor and the other of the patriarch, cut out the tongue from that of the patriarch, and cut off the arm from that of the emperor; by which he intimated to each the severe punishments which they deserved, and which their exalted rank alone preserved them from suffering. Struck by the boldness and justice of his decision, they laid aside their mutual animosity, and as respective proofs of their gratitude to their judge, the patriarch placed on him his Epitrachelion (Omophorion) and the emperor his crown, and proclaimed him to be the (Ecumenical judge. In memory of this circumstance, the patriarch of Alexandria wears two Omophoria over his robes, and a double crown on his mitre.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4F8wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA391&dq=Theophilos+Alexandria+Emperor+Basil+Sergius&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zn0mUaboAciz2gXN94DQCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Theophilos%20Alexandria%20Emperor%20Basil%20Sergius&f=false

[Romaios]

Actually it was given (along with two crowns) by the Emperor of the Romans and the EP, whom Pope Theophilos II (1010-1020) had reconciled:

During his tenure as Patriarch the persecution of Christians By Al Hakim became even more fierce, and many of them became Islamists or sought refuge in other countries. During these years, Theophilos was living in Constantinople as he could not stay in Egypt . He intervened in the dispute between Emperor Vasilios Voulgaroktonos (975-1025) and Patriarch Sergios II of Constantinople (999-1019) on whether or not to enforce the law  of “solidarity”, and led the two to conciliation. From that time the Patriarch of Alexandria was given the title of “Judge of the Universe”, with the added privilege of wearing a second stole (Kritato).

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=content&cid=001003&id=141&lang=en

the title of (Ecumenical judge was assumed by Theophilus, patriarch of Alexandria, A.D. 1000, on account of the reconciliation he eflected between the Emperor Basil III., and Sergius patriarch of Constantinople. The cause of the quarrel was that the patriarch had spoken ill of the emperor, and the emperor had laid violent hands on the patriarch. They had recourse to the judgment of the Lord of Alexandria, who having made two wax figures, one of the emperor and the other of the patriarch, cut out the tongue from that of the patriarch, and cut off the arm from that of the emperor; by which he intimated to each the severe punishments which they deserved, and which their exalted rank alone preserved them from suffering. Struck by the boldness and justice of his decision, they laid aside their mutual animosity, and as respective proofs of their gratitude to their judge, the patriarch placed on him his Epitrachelion (Omophorion) and the emperor his crown, and proclaimed him to be the (Ecumenical judge. In memory of this circumstance, the patriarch of Alexandria wears two Omophoria over his robes, and a double crown on his mitre.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4F8wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA391&dq=Theophilos+Alexandria+Emperor+Basil+Sergius&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zn0mUaboAciz2gXN94DQCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Theophilos%20Alexandria%20Emperor%20Basil%20Sergius&f=false

I didn't know that - very interesting!

Thank you, Isa.

[Romaios]

So, we should turn to the Pope of Alexandria for reconciliation whenever State and Church are at odds with each other...

[ialmisry]

So, we should turn to the Pope of Alexandria for reconciliation whenever State and Church are at odds with each other...

Not so sure....the issue was on taxation, and I'm not sure it was resolved.
Private Religious Foundations in Byzantine Empire
 By John Philip Thomas
http://books.google.com/books?id=jCAl9udu8IwC&pg=PA164&dq=%22allelengyon+had+placed+on+ecclesiastical+institutions%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=AYEmUd_lB-ew2gX37IGICg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22allelengyon%20had%20placed%20on%20ecclesiastical%20institutions%22&f=false

[ialmisry]

Actually it was given (along with two crowns) by the Emperor of the Romans and the EP, whom Pope Theophilos II (1010-1020) had reconciled:

During his tenure as Patriarch the persecution of Christians By Al Hakim became even more fierce, and many of them became Islamists or sought refuge in other countries. During these years, Theophilos was living in Constantinople as he could not stay in Egypt . He intervened in the dispute between Emperor Vasilios Voulgaroktonos (975-1025) and Patriarch Sergios II of Constantinople (999-1019) on whether or not to enforce the law  of “solidarity”, and led the two to conciliation. From that time the Patriarch of Alexandria was given the title of “Judge of the Universe”, with the added privilege of wearing a second stole (Kritato).

http://www.patriarchateofalexandria.com/index.php?module=content&cid=001003&id=141&lang=en

the title of (Ecumenical judge was assumed by Theophilus, patriarch of Alexandria, A.D. 1000, on account of the reconciliation he eflected between the Emperor Basil III., and Sergius patriarch of Constantinople. The cause of the quarrel was that the patriarch had spoken ill of the emperor, and the emperor had laid violent hands on the patriarch. They had recourse to the judgment of the Lord of Alexandria, who having made two wax figures, one of the emperor and the other of the patriarch, cut out the tongue from that of the patriarch, and cut off the arm from that of the emperor; by which he intimated to each the severe punishments which they deserved, and which their exalted rank alone preserved them from suffering. Struck by the boldness and justice of his decision, they laid aside their mutual animosity, and as respective proofs of their gratitude to their judge, the patriarch placed on him his Epitrachelion (Omophorion) and the emperor his crown, and proclaimed him to be the (Ecumenical judge. In memory of this circumstance, the patriarch of Alexandria wears two Omophoria over his robes, and a double crown on his mitre.

http://books.google.com/books?id=4F8wAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA391&dq=Theophilos+Alexandria+Emperor+Basil+Sergius&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zn0mUaboAciz2gXN94DQCw&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Theophilos%20Alexandria%20Emperor%20Basil%20Sergius&f=false

I didn't know that - very interesting!

Thank you, Isa.

No problem.  Btw, I originally learned the story from the Pope's deacon, as he was laying out HH's vestments.

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