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Author Topic: РПЦ going "GREEN"  (Read 1690 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:29 PM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.



http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/59248.htm








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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 11:19:15 PM »

I can't read it.
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 11:22:34 PM »

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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 01:01:07 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


So which Orthodox church do you think is the right one?   
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 01:27:29 AM »

I can't read it.

it is not small documents.... with lot of spaculation....

first of all at multiple occasion РПЦ speaks on behalf of Whole Catholic Church.... and it is not good...

then lot of modern "popular brain washing melody" about "eco crisis" , "overpopulation of earth" etc.....

some quotation:

Quote


В рамках соработничества с государством и обществом по вопросам экологии Церковь открыта к тому, чтобы:

•   участвовать в форумах, конференциях и встречах экологической направленности, знакомить все заинтересованные стороны со своим пониманием экологических проблем и имеющимся опытом их разрешения;
•   давать оценку общественно значимым экономическим проектам, влияющим на состояние живой природы и окружающей среды;
•   осуществлять совместные проекты с общественными, государственными и международными структурами;
•   активно развивать церковное присутствие в общественной и научной экологической работе на международном, национальном и региональном уровнях;
•   участвовать в разработке, обсуждении и осуществлении информационных, образовательных и воспитательных программ, имеющих экологическую составляющую, а также законов и иных нормативных актов, затрагивающих в той или иной мере вопросы экологии.



Quote

Church ( sound like council of RPC speaks for “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church) open to partnership to work together in term of ecological issue.

- take parts in ecological forums, conference, meeting and introduce all partys with “church eco experience” of solving such issues.
- give valuation of social economical projects which effecting condition of “living nature” and “environment”.
- run united projects in coalition with govermantal, social and international organisation.
- actively develop participation at social and scientific activities at international, national and regional levels.
- take part at development, discussion and execution of  informational and educational projects, law and regulation which related to ecology issues.



Why CHURCH should be doing this???
Do we have no thing to care about any more?

Who pay for it?
Price for this utopia is not cheap... or Russian patriarchate planing to get peace of slice for "eco pie speculation" form international and national "eco rip off"?





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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:37:28 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


So which Orthodox church do you think is the right one?   

any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 01:44:02 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:58:11 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?

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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 02:00:55 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?


You're avoiding the issue. Again.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 02:07:39 AM »

Alive, have you considered a career change? I think you'd really do well as an ascetic, especially one who spends his days and nights in prayer and away from the Internet.
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 02:32:51 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?


You're avoiding the issue. Again.  Roll Eyes

Huh

it was the answer.

you do speculation in biblical text.

G2:15
Quote
And take God the man into “Paradise of sweetness” to develop it and to keep it.

Shell we speak about “paradise” we lost or about “land you was made from and would return into” till “resurrection of dead”.
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 02:38:58 AM »

You're being incoherent again.
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 02:49:58 AM »

You're being incoherent again.

cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.


I guess, you may to ignorant about fundamental christian/orthodox values. 

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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 02:55:29 AM »

Quote
cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.

What on earth are you talking about?
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 03:45:01 AM »

Quote
cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.

What on earth are you talking about?
I think her might mean "comprehend".
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 04:36:35 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 



any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 

What are the key values that are being threatened? 
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 04:39:44 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth.
I think you might be talking about Fr. Michael Oleksa.
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 06:40:58 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.

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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 06:47:40 AM »




any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 





What are the key values that are being threatened? 


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 06:57:25 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 07:34:21 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 07:40:35 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



I am not misled about the faith I have practiced for fifty years.

Being a good steward of what God has creation means using it and looking after it for everyone's benefit, as God commanded Adam and Eve to do. "Gaining the world" means acquiring material wealth, power and possessions, without regard for others. It is this grab for the things of the world, and placing them above what is good for one's soul, which Christ so clearly warns against.
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 08:38:49 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 08:47:51 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads you about Christianity and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



I am not misled about the faith I have practiced for fifty years.

Being a good steward of what God has creation means using it and looking after it for everyone's benefit, as God commanded Adam and Eve to do. "Gaining the world" means acquiring material wealth, power and possessions, without regard for others. It is this grab for the things of the world, and placing them above what is good for one's soul, which Christ so clearly warns against.

1. fifty years - warranty of quality? - speculation.
2. then you start speculation about Adam life goals.
3. Gaining world including build "better life" - improve it etc..... of course to be wealthy - is not sin... promote wealthy life style as godly - is. of course richness is not sin.... but every one ignoring why, so hard for wealthy man enter heavenly kingdom....  

you may keep lie to yourself, but you cant make Christ look fool, no even Holy Fathers.

Orthodoxy never promote "build better life on the earth", it is what mormons and other heretics do.  
 

And with "eco programmes" is worse .... no one know what reality is , but every one play smart about.... and it is outrageous if some bishops start speculation about.

Every one sick of "eco lies" , and now РПЦ start play this games too.... ugly.

Guess РПЦ "eco programme" orientated to full people like you.... well it work then.


 


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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 08:50:22 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 09:09:49 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
You haven't even unerstood what we are talking about.

Nobody is trying to turn the world into a paradise. That's what you are thinking. Taking care of the earth is not about creating a Utopia. It is about protecting what God has created from being destroyed.
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 10:38:48 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
You haven't even unerstood what we are talking about.

Nobody is trying to turn the world into a paradise. That's what you are thinking. Taking care of the earth is not about creating a Utopia. It is about protecting what God has created from being destroyed.

now you play "god"... pathetic...
sound like you reach personal hollynes, get write off your sins, be came lustless, and have no thing to do any more just to battle:
- global oil company,
- factory,
- transportation industry,
- military industry
- etc.

to preserve "nature" as it is key role of Church and main goal of Christianity....
... and CO2 taxation, population decreasing plans and other such scheme is also part of "nature saving/preserving/protecting  plan" developed in cooperation with patriarchate.


some one have fun by decoration highway to hell with extra useless road signs to make sure drivers have "safe trip"....
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »

Why do I even try?
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 11:03:06 AM »

Why do I even try?

Well, you get points for that. Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 12:48:51 PM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.



What makes you think that working out one's salvation is no longer part of the Russian Orthodox church?  Part of that key Orthodox value is assuming that one has a body in which one can work out his or her salvation.  People have to eat in order to live, in order to repent, etc.
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 12:51:40 PM »

Why do I even try?

Maybe because of your tags by St. Silouan, which I very much appreciate. 
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »

Why do I even try?

Maybe because of your tags by St. Silouan, which I very much appreciate. 

Yes, he is a great saint. Unfortunately, I often keep my mind in the wrong places.
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 04:56:10 PM »

So, is it your point of view that an Orthodox Christian has no obligation to wisely shepherd our planet's resources and the path to one's own salvation is the church's only proper role?

 If we callously squander our natural resources how are we to feed the hungry? Absent clean air and water how are we to care for the sick? In Genesis, man is given dominion over the natural world. Are we to be selfish, callous and indifferent masters of our own domain? Should we follow the slothful servant as we manage the 'talents' given to us by God?

I think not.

You come here and accuse those who disagree with you as heretics or followers of the antichrist.  I think you have a lot of nerve. To you I humbly suggest: "Physician, heal thyself."



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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 09:06:42 PM »

So, is it your point of view that an Orthodox Christian has no obligation to wisely shepherd our planet's resources and the path to one's own salvation is the church's only proper role?


Do you have enough bread for today? give thanks to God. or not for you Jesus say "should not care about tomorrow" (M.6:34)?

What  РПЦ do, it is : by starting care about weird and speculative eco programme for earth and social comfort, drop care about real christian value.  Would earth stay for ever? or not God looking after and tell us to take care about our heart illness?



Lord say about such people "you have not faith" .... what is could be more worse then stop looking "UP" and redirect focus to "dust"  (and pig go back to mud). and you try to not encourage it but make Orthodox people respect such madness as "OBLIGATION" ....

Do you have not awe to promote such fake value as Church dutyHuh?








 
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 09:27:20 PM »

If we callously squander our natural resources how are we to feed the hungry? Absent clean air and water how are we to care for the sick? In Genesis, man is given dominion over the natural world. Are we to be selfish, callous and indifferent masters of our own domain? Should we follow the slothful servant as we manage the 'talents' given to us by God?

I think not.




- natural resources
- feed the hungry
- clean air and water
- care for the sick

You care? lie and speculation.
It is not in your hands  even to care about yourself, but care about air, water, natural resources...

you dreaming....



" bird do not crop but Heavenly Father feed them." or "Our daily bread give us this day".... sound like you never heard about....



Sure, every have own basic domestic duty even in monastery.... accountant , cook, gardner, builder etc ... so what?  but no one speculate on it as "key christian value"...

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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 09:59:20 PM »

I see little point in continuing this discussion as I view the OP' s responses as being non-responsive to my questions. Perhaps all that we have here is a problem with conceptual translation, but I'm really not sure. In any event, I'm done with this topic.
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 11:31:52 PM »

I see little point in continuing this discussion as I view the OP' s responses as being non-responsive to my questions. Perhaps all that we have here is a problem with conceptual translation, but I'm really not sure. In any event, I'm done with this topic.

of course , especially if you speculating on biblical text and presents Church mission as "wisely shepherd our planet's resources".


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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 11:41:07 PM »

You're being incoherent again.

cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.


I guess, you may to ignorant about fundamental christian/orthodox values. 



It's really amazing how you keep making unwarranted accusations in phrases of such indecipherable meaning.
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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 11:43:29 PM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



Give citations from the Holy Fathers to support your argument. Otherwise you are just blabbing your own opinion.
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« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 12:04:09 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



Give citations from the Holy Fathers to support your argument. Otherwise you are just blabbing your own opinion.

you joking....

do you ever reads fathers and Gospel?

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care.... and РПЦ try to promote opposite value.


Do you remember what God tell to Marfa? do you respect Jesus words as not valuable?

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« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2013, 12:11:34 AM »

you joking....

You should write a letter to His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew (they understand Russian at the Phanar) and ask His All Holiness:

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


Why do you ask us questions that we cannot answer?
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« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 12:19:03 AM »

All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care....
Show us, then.
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« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 12:41:30 AM »

All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care....
Show us, then.

read the Gospel, read the fathers. it all about - run out of wordly care... do you ever listen liturgical pray?
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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 12:45:17 AM »

you joking....

You should write a letter to His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew (they understand Russian at the Phanar) and ask His All Holiness:

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


Why do you ask us questions that we cannot answer?


Brother, i do not ask questions , but raise the issues.


Russian council and well as some people in this forum speculate on biblical text:

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/59248.htm

Quote
Руководствуясь заповедью Божией о хранении тварного мира (Быт. 2:15) и заботясь о духовном и физическом здоровье человека, Русская Православная Церковь считает своим долгом и далее участвовать в обсуждении вопросов экологии, а также трудиться на этом поприще в соработничестве со всеми, кто озабочен состоянием окружающей среды, думая о сохранении здоровья и нормальной жизни людей.

Obey Godly Guideline about keeping created world (G2:15), and care about spiritual and physical well-being of man, РПЦ , respect as obligation to continue take part at  ecological issues discussion , and co-working at this field with every one who concern about environmental condition, thinking about health and "normal" life of people.



let see what it is in reality:

G2:15 And the Lord God took the man whom he had formed, and placed him in the garden of Delight, to cultivate and keep it.

G3: 18 And to Adam he said: …… cursed is the earth in your labours, in pain shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. 19 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. 20 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread until thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken, for earth thou art and to earth thou shalt return.

G3: 24 So the Lord God sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken.








SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24









Shell we respect lucifer as an angel too? he was created as archangel, so shell we dispute fact of his fall just same as РПЦ dispite fakt we not in the "Garden of Delight" any more?Huh
 


Russian archbishops are so uneducated Huh?
or they never read the doduments they sign?Huh

some thing extremely ODD going on....

You may pretend no thing wrong take place.... but it is not true.








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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 12:56:29 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.



Ah. Here you are wrong.

The key Orthodox Value, as you put it, is to put "self" last, not first.

You seem to misunderstand Orthodox teachings.

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