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Author Topic: РПЦ going "GREEN"  (Read 1829 times) Average Rating: 0
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Alive
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« on: February 05, 2013, 11:12:29 PM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.



http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/59248.htm








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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2013, 11:19:15 PM »

I can't read it.
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2013, 11:22:34 PM »

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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2013, 01:01:07 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


So which Orthodox church do you think is the right one?   
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« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2013, 01:27:29 AM »

I can't read it.

it is not small documents.... with lot of spaculation....

first of all at multiple occasion РПЦ speaks on behalf of Whole Catholic Church.... and it is not good...

then lot of modern "popular brain washing melody" about "eco crisis" , "overpopulation of earth" etc.....

some quotation:

Quote


В рамках соработничества с государством и обществом по вопросам экологии Церковь открыта к тому, чтобы:

•   участвовать в форумах, конференциях и встречах экологической направленности, знакомить все заинтересованные стороны со своим пониманием экологических проблем и имеющимся опытом их разрешения;
•   давать оценку общественно значимым экономическим проектам, влияющим на состояние живой природы и окружающей среды;
•   осуществлять совместные проекты с общественными, государственными и международными структурами;
•   активно развивать церковное присутствие в общественной и научной экологической работе на международном, национальном и региональном уровнях;
•   участвовать в разработке, обсуждении и осуществлении информационных, образовательных и воспитательных программ, имеющих экологическую составляющую, а также законов и иных нормативных актов, затрагивающих в той или иной мере вопросы экологии.



Quote

Church ( sound like council of RPC speaks for “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church) open to partnership to work together in term of ecological issue.

- take parts in ecological forums, conference, meeting and introduce all partys with “church eco experience” of solving such issues.
- give valuation of social economical projects which effecting condition of “living nature” and “environment”.
- run united projects in coalition with govermantal, social and international organisation.
- actively develop participation at social and scientific activities at international, national and regional levels.
- take part at development, discussion and execution of  informational and educational projects, law and regulation which related to ecology issues.



Why CHURCH should be doing this???
Do we have no thing to care about any more?

Who pay for it?
Price for this utopia is not cheap... or Russian patriarchate planing to get peace of slice for "eco pie speculation" form international and national "eco rip off"?





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« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2013, 01:37:28 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


So which Orthodox church do you think is the right one?   

any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 
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« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2013, 01:44:02 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2013, 01:58:11 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?

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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2013, 02:00:55 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?


You're avoiding the issue. Again.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2013, 02:07:39 AM »

Alive, have you considered a career change? I think you'd really do well as an ascetic, especially one who spends his days and nights in prayer and away from the Internet.
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2013, 02:32:51 AM »


It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.
 

Alive, look up the word "steward" and "custodian". God Himself told Adam and Eve to be stewards of the earth.

are you still live at paradise? or try to rebuild it?


You're avoiding the issue. Again.  Roll Eyes

Huh

it was the answer.

you do speculation in biblical text.

G2:15
Quote
And take God the man into “Paradise of sweetness” to develop it and to keep it.

Shell we speak about “paradise” we lost or about “land you was made from and would return into” till “resurrection of dead”.
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2013, 02:38:58 AM »

You're being incoherent again.
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2013, 02:49:58 AM »

You're being incoherent again.

cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.


I guess, you may to ignorant about fundamental christian/orthodox values. 

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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2013, 02:55:29 AM »

Quote
cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.

What on earth are you talking about?
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2013, 03:45:01 AM »

Quote
cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.

What on earth are you talking about?
I think her might mean "comprehend".
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« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2013, 04:36:35 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 



any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 

What are the key values that are being threatened? 
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« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2013, 04:39:44 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth.
I think you might be talking about Fr. Michael Oleksa.
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« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2013, 06:40:58 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.

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« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2013, 06:47:40 AM »




any orthodox people in Russian Federation are technically an orthodox. and of course no one perfect apart of Christ.
Such documents should be not Church concern.
it is begot corruption and speculation.
It is threatening key fundamental values of Church.


 





What are the key values that are being threatened? 


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?
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« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2013, 06:57:25 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2013, 07:34:21 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2013, 07:40:35 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



I am not misled about the faith I have practiced for fifty years.

Being a good steward of what God has creation means using it and looking after it for everyone's benefit, as God commanded Adam and Eve to do. "Gaining the world" means acquiring material wealth, power and possessions, without regard for others. It is this grab for the things of the world, and placing them above what is good for one's soul, which Christ so clearly warns against.
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2013, 08:38:49 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.
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« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2013, 08:47:51 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads you about Christianity and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



I am not misled about the faith I have practiced for fifty years.

Being a good steward of what God has creation means using it and looking after it for everyone's benefit, as God commanded Adam and Eve to do. "Gaining the world" means acquiring material wealth, power and possessions, without regard for others. It is this grab for the things of the world, and placing them above what is good for one's soul, which Christ so clearly warns against.

1. fifty years - warranty of quality? - speculation.
2. then you start speculation about Adam life goals.
3. Gaining world including build "better life" - improve it etc..... of course to be wealthy - is not sin... promote wealthy life style as godly - is. of course richness is not sin.... but every one ignoring why, so hard for wealthy man enter heavenly kingdom....  

you may keep lie to yourself, but you cant make Christ look fool, no even Holy Fathers.

Orthodoxy never promote "build better life on the earth", it is what mormons and other heretics do.  
 

And with "eco programmes" is worse .... no one know what reality is , but every one play smart about.... and it is outrageous if some bishops start speculation about.

Every one sick of "eco lies" , and now РПЦ start play this games too.... ugly.

Guess РПЦ "eco programme" orientated to full people like you.... well it work then.


 


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« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2013, 08:50:22 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 09:09:49 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
You haven't even unerstood what we are talking about.

Nobody is trying to turn the world into a paradise. That's what you are thinking. Taking care of the earth is not about creating a Utopia. It is about protecting what God has created from being destroyed.
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 10:38:48 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....


I think you need to read genesis.


"Keep your mind in hell and do not despair" - it is sound to you like "take care about earth and turn it into paradise"?
You haven't even unerstood what we are talking about.

Nobody is trying to turn the world into a paradise. That's what you are thinking. Taking care of the earth is not about creating a Utopia. It is about protecting what God has created from being destroyed.

now you play "god"... pathetic...
sound like you reach personal hollynes, get write off your sins, be came lustless, and have no thing to do any more just to battle:
- global oil company,
- factory,
- transportation industry,
- military industry
- etc.

to preserve "nature" as it is key role of Church and main goal of Christianity....
... and CO2 taxation, population decreasing plans and other such scheme is also part of "nature saving/preserving/protecting  plan" developed in cooperation with patriarchate.


some one have fun by decoration highway to hell with extra useless road signs to make sure drivers have "safe trip"....
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »

Why do I even try?
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 11:03:06 AM »

Why do I even try?

Well, you get points for that. Smiley
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 12:48:51 PM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.



What makes you think that working out one's salvation is no longer part of the Russian Orthodox church?  Part of that key Orthodox value is assuming that one has a body in which one can work out his or her salvation.  People have to eat in order to live, in order to repent, etc.
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 12:51:40 PM »

Why do I even try?

Maybe because of your tags by St. Silouan, which I very much appreciate. 
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »

Why do I even try?

Maybe because of your tags by St. Silouan, which I very much appreciate. 

Yes, he is a great saint. Unfortunately, I often keep my mind in the wrong places.
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 04:56:10 PM »

So, is it your point of view that an Orthodox Christian has no obligation to wisely shepherd our planet's resources and the path to one's own salvation is the church's only proper role?

 If we callously squander our natural resources how are we to feed the hungry? Absent clean air and water how are we to care for the sick? In Genesis, man is given dominion over the natural world. Are we to be selfish, callous and indifferent masters of our own domain? Should we follow the slothful servant as we manage the 'talents' given to us by God?

I think not.

You come here and accuse those who disagree with you as heretics or followers of the antichrist.  I think you have a lot of nerve. To you I humbly suggest: "Physician, heal thyself."



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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 09:06:42 PM »

So, is it your point of view that an Orthodox Christian has no obligation to wisely shepherd our planet's resources and the path to one's own salvation is the church's only proper role?


Do you have enough bread for today? give thanks to God. or not for you Jesus say "should not care about tomorrow" (M.6:34)?

What  РПЦ do, it is : by starting care about weird and speculative eco programme for earth and social comfort, drop care about real christian value.  Would earth stay for ever? or not God looking after and tell us to take care about our heart illness?



Lord say about such people "you have not faith" .... what is could be more worse then stop looking "UP" and redirect focus to "dust"  (and pig go back to mud). and you try to not encourage it but make Orthodox people respect such madness as "OBLIGATION" ....

Do you have not awe to promote such fake value as Church dutyHuh?








 
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 09:27:20 PM »

If we callously squander our natural resources how are we to feed the hungry? Absent clean air and water how are we to care for the sick? In Genesis, man is given dominion over the natural world. Are we to be selfish, callous and indifferent masters of our own domain? Should we follow the slothful servant as we manage the 'talents' given to us by God?

I think not.




- natural resources
- feed the hungry
- clean air and water
- care for the sick

You care? lie and speculation.
It is not in your hands  even to care about yourself, but care about air, water, natural resources...

you dreaming....



" bird do not crop but Heavenly Father feed them." or "Our daily bread give us this day".... sound like you never heard about....



Sure, every have own basic domestic duty even in monastery.... accountant , cook, gardner, builder etc ... so what?  but no one speculate on it as "key christian value"...

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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 09:59:20 PM »

I see little point in continuing this discussion as I view the OP' s responses as being non-responsive to my questions. Perhaps all that we have here is a problem with conceptual translation, but I'm really not sure. In any event, I'm done with this topic.
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 11:31:52 PM »

I see little point in continuing this discussion as I view the OP' s responses as being non-responsive to my questions. Perhaps all that we have here is a problem with conceptual translation, but I'm really not sure. In any event, I'm done with this topic.

of course , especially if you speculating on biblical text and presents Church mission as "wisely shepherd our planet's resources".


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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 11:41:07 PM »

You're being incoherent again.

cant help you if you disable to components such basic matters.


I guess, you may to ignorant about fundamental christian/orthodox values. 



It's really amazing how you keep making unwarranted accusations in phrases of such indecipherable meaning.
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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 11:43:29 PM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



Give citations from the Holy Fathers to support your argument. Otherwise you are just blabbing your own opinion.
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« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2013, 12:04:09 AM »


for what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?


I fail to see how trying to be a good steward and custodian of God's creation will adversely affect one's salvation. "Gaining the world" does not mean "taking good care of it".  police

It is speculation.
Man is not earth steward.
You are wrong.
Our life goal not to look after earth and turn it in paradise. It is utopia, you promote.


my guess some one misleads about Christianity you and presents wrong value. ... blind leads blind....



Give citations from the Holy Fathers to support your argument. Otherwise you are just blabbing your own opinion.

you joking....

do you ever reads fathers and Gospel?

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care.... and РПЦ try to promote opposite value.


Do you remember what God tell to Marfa? do you respect Jesus words as not valuable?

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« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2013, 12:11:34 AM »

you joking....

You should write a letter to His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew (they understand Russian at the Phanar) and ask His All Holiness:

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


Why do you ask us questions that we cannot answer?
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« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2013, 12:19:03 AM »

All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care....
Show us, then.
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« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 12:41:30 AM »

All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care....
Show us, then.

read the Gospel, read the fathers. it all about - run out of wordly care... do you ever listen liturgical pray?
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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 12:45:17 AM »

you joking....

You should write a letter to His All Holiness Patriarch Bartholomew (they understand Russian at the Phanar) and ask His All Holiness:

tell me where fathers teach to care about earth development as fundamental Christian goal?


Why do you ask us questions that we cannot answer?


Brother, i do not ask questions , but raise the issues.


Russian council and well as some people in this forum speculate on biblical text:

http://www.pravoslavie.ru/news/59248.htm

Quote
Руководствуясь заповедью Божией о хранении тварного мира (Быт. 2:15) и заботясь о духовном и физическом здоровье человека, Русская Православная Церковь считает своим долгом и далее участвовать в обсуждении вопросов экологии, а также трудиться на этом поприще в соработничестве со всеми, кто озабочен состоянием окружающей среды, думая о сохранении здоровья и нормальной жизни людей.

Obey Godly Guideline about keeping created world (G2:15), and care about spiritual and physical well-being of man, РПЦ , respect as obligation to continue take part at  ecological issues discussion , and co-working at this field with every one who concern about environmental condition, thinking about health and "normal" life of people.



let see what it is in reality:

G2:15 And the Lord God took the man whom he had formed, and placed him in the garden of Delight, to cultivate and keep it.

G3: 18 And to Adam he said: …… cursed is the earth in your labours, in pain shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. 19 Thorns and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field. 20 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread until thou return to the earth out of which thou wast taken, for earth thou art and to earth thou shalt return.

G3: 24 So the Lord God sent him forth out of the garden of Delight to cultivate the ground out of which he was taken.








SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24









Shell we respect lucifer as an angel too? he was created as archangel, so shell we dispute fact of his fall just same as РПЦ dispite fakt we not in the "Garden of Delight" any more?Huh
 


Russian archbishops are so uneducated Huh?
or they never read the doduments they sign?Huh

some thing extremely ODD going on....

You may pretend no thing wrong take place.... but it is not true.








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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 12:56:29 AM »


РПЦ endorse GO GREEN programme ... "save our planet"

It is not sound good at all.
Eco-politics speculation is not religious issue.

So all such utopiacal speculation are discrediting orthodoxy.


Well, recently in Alaska there have been some big problems with the Native people and their land.  They use the land to hunt and fish, it is how they survive so far out from cities. 

I think an Orthodox priest there has been encouraging people to become involved in preserving these Orthodox people's livelihoods.  It was the Russians who converted them after
all.  But he is working with various people to see how things can be helped so everything doesn't die out, like all the fish and so forth. 

The article did make the point that it isn't nature worship, but respecting and caring for God's creation.   

And, of course our Patriarch Bartholomew has been discussing this for quite some time. 

If we don't have a planet, I guess the games up. 


It is not religious issues.
We always have "social problems" . it is historical fact.


Key orthodox value is not about save planet , but save yourself.



Ah. Here you are wrong.

The key Orthodox Value, as you put it, is to put "self" last, not first.

You seem to misunderstand Orthodox teachings.

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« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 01:04:46 AM »

All fathers teaching based to run out of earthly care....
Show us, then.

read the Gospel, read the fathers. it all about - run out of wordly care... do you ever listen liturgical pray?

You have not demonstrated that you have read them yourself. You have only been ranting. Are you the only Orthodox Christian in the world?
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« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 01:08:20 AM »


SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24

When Jesus hung on the cross as the Tree of Life, wasn't man reconciled with the "Garden of Delight?"

Maybe they believe theosis differently in Russia; however, we are still instructed to cultivate the Earth while striving for the "Garden of Delight" (or Paradise).

Shell we respect lucifer as an angel too? he was created as archangel, so shell we dispute fact of his fall just same as РПЦ dispite fakt we not in the "Garden of Delight" any more?Huh

Do you think we're in Paradise?

Russian archbishops are so uneducated Huh?
or they never read the doduments they sign?Huh

Americans say that ignorance is bliss.

some thing extremely ODD going on....

You may pretend no thing wrong take place.... but it is not true.

What do you want to do about this situation?
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« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 01:30:34 AM »


SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24

When Jesus hung on the cross as the Tree of Life, wasn't man reconciled with the "Garden of Delight?"


you say we live at "Garden of Delight? - it is heresy....

or you just chatting for no reason?
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« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 01:42:45 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 01:51:52 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus


Should i stop pee and take poo on icon?



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« Reply #50 on: February 07, 2013, 02:07:46 AM »


SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24

When Jesus hung on the cross as the Tree of Life, wasn't man reconciled with the "Garden of Delight?"


you say we live at "Garden of Delight? - it is heresy....

I didn't say that we lived in the "Garden of Delight."  God forbid Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life.  Jesus is the Tree of Life.  Maybe you missed that lesson in seminary.

or you just chatting for no reason?

I could make the same accusation towards you.  Your rants have no purpose. 
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« Reply #51 on: February 07, 2013, 02:15:00 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus


Should i [something something] on icon?



That was a painful reply to read. 

The article you quote differentiated the pagan worship of nature from the Orthodox perspective of being frugal, fasting, not buying more than one needs, of, basically, an ascetic approach toward life.   Every Liturgy includes prayers for the earth. 

Did you even the read the article?
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« Reply #52 on: February 07, 2013, 02:24:38 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus


Should i stop [and desecrate] on icon?

How are you different from Pussy Riot?
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« Reply #53 on: February 07, 2013, 05:25:36 AM »


SO...... what way we can KEEP "Garden of Delight" (G2:15) , if we was KICKED OUT OF THERE?Huh - G2:24

When Jesus hung on the cross as the Tree of Life, wasn't man reconciled with the "Garden of Delight?"


you say we live at "Garden of Delight? - it is heresy....



I didn't say that we lived in the "Garden of Delight."  God forbid Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Life.  Jesus is the Tree of Life.  Maybe you missed that lesson in seminary.

or you just chatting for no reason?

I could make the same accusation towards you.  Your rants have no purpose.  

you should now what is topic about.

We not talk about "Tree of Life."
Topic about РПЦ council eco speculation.
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« Reply #54 on: February 07, 2013, 05:42:35 AM »

You are making mountains out of molehills.
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« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2013, 05:46:50 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus


Should i [something something] on icon?



That was a painful reply to read. 

The article you quote differentiated the pagan worship of nature from the Orthodox perspective of being frugal, fasting, not buying more than one needs, of, basically, an ascetic approach toward life.   Every Liturgy includes prayers for the earth. 


You miss use Holly Fr. St. John of Damascus, and now you upset....



1. article you quote not about "fasting" or "ascetic life" .

2. every orthodox struggle own life and battle own battle, and we cant obligate every one take same strangle , but every one carry own weight accordingly. Every one discuss ascetical path with own father.

3. we pray for enemy too. so what? we pary for ungodly government and ungodly country we live at. holly people dare pray for demons....  you misunderstand essence of pray i guess.....










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« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2013, 05:51:28 AM »

You are making mountains out of molehills.

РПЦ  council misleads general public about essence and Church and Orthodox value , and you call it molehills.

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« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2013, 05:54:45 AM »

Quote
You miss use Holly Fr. St. John of Damascus

Prove that she did.
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« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2013, 05:57:21 AM »

You are making mountains out of molehills.

РПЦ  council misleads general public about essence and Church and Orthodox value , and you call it molehills.


Who is misleading?

The russian Patriarchate hasn't denounced Orthodoxy. It has adressed an important issue, something which the Church has always done.
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« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2013, 06:07:27 AM »

"The whole earth is a living icon of the face of God"

St. John of Damascus


Should i stop [and desecrate] on icon?

How are you different from Pussy Riot?


for start,  pussy is not care about orthodoxy. it was political foreplay against Putin and patriarch actively promote Putin as president.... so basically patriarch compromise orthodoxy and discredit Church.

I do not care how rich patriarh and other side of his personal life, - it his personal issue with his spirutial father.
I also not concern about his relation with KGB and still part of it.

But ... as soon he start twisting orthodox value .... it is time to get up and say "enough" .

Today it effects only "Russian Federation" .... but tomorrow we may wake up and find out we no longer are "orthodox" because "new orthodox" value was set by "council" .


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« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2013, 06:19:29 AM »

Quote
You miss use Holly Fr. St. John of Damascus

Prove that she did.

key topic :

РПЦ  promote Church obligation to take part in "eco programme" based on fake use of G2:15.

some one make irrelevant reference on Holly Fr. St. John of Damascus regards this issue.
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« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2013, 06:23:43 AM »

You are making mountains out of molehills.

РПЦ  council misleads general public about essence and Church and Orthodox value , and you call it molehills.


Who is misleading?

The russian Patriarchate hasn't denounced Orthodoxy. 

I doubt he even know what is it.
He is politician not pastor.

He speaks like gangster.....




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« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2013, 06:39:03 AM »

It has adressed an important issue, something which the Church has always done.

Sure.... once there was big issue and patriarch solve it well too:
Quote
"You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish"

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« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2013, 06:42:57 AM »

It has adressed an important issue, something which the Church has always done.

Sure.... once there was big issue and patriarch solve it well too:
Quote
"You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish"


Man. And you are telling us not to post irrelevant quotes.
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« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2013, 06:49:05 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!
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« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2013, 07:12:37 AM »

It has adressed an important issue, something which the Church has always done.

Sure.... once there was big issue and patriarch solve it well too:
Quote
"You do not realize that it is better for you that one man die for the people than that the whole nation perish"


Man. And you are telling us not to post irrelevant quotes.


Church against global warming - is .... it is just speculation.....  but for you it is important issue i guess.
First it come up with "social concept of РПЦ ", i guess was developed by metropolitan K. who now is patriarch .... now it move to next level.

may be , there are some environmental money for this project .... so where we go....
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« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2013, 07:21:18 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.
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« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2013, 07:23:06 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.

Behave.
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« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2013, 07:24:58 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.

Behave.

Sorry. It wasn't meant that way.
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« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2013, 07:30:49 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.

Behave.

of course if there are no thing to say it is best way to show off.
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« Reply #70 on: February 07, 2013, 07:36:38 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.

Behave.

of course if there are no thing to say it is best way to show off.
You're right. I should have considered my words more carefully.

Please forgive.
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« Reply #71 on: February 07, 2013, 08:32:50 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

I'm trying, but it isn't easy.

I am scandinavian, after all. It's in our nature to fight trolls.

Behave.

of course if there are no thing to say it is best way to show off.
You're right. I should have considered my words more carefully.

Please forgive.

God may forgive.

Forgive me too. i not mean to abuse you.
just in kind of pain.
I was hoping it would not go as far as "primary social concept of РПЦ " ...

and when i read first paragraf of РПЦ council eco doc.... i just freak out :

Quote
Все человечество несет ответственность за состояние природы — творения Божия. Истощение ресурсов и загрязнение окружающей среды на фоне роста населения планеты с особой остротой ставят вопрос о солидарных усилиях всех народов для сохранения многообразия жизни, о рачительном использовании природных ресурсов и предотвращении экологических катастроф, спровоцированных человеческой деятельностью.

Quote
whole humanity carry responsibility for nature condition - as it is Gods creation. depletion of natural resources and pollution, with overpopulation of planet, raise issue about consolidation of all nations for preservation of multiple form of life ...... 

- depletion of natural resources
- overpopulation
it is what really bishop should be concern about?Huh

do not care what to drink or what to eat... or it not for us Jesus told?

РПЦ worry about grow of population? Is not russin federation about to have demographical crisis Huh




 but .... overpopulation concern of РПЦ council just kills me dead....
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« Reply #72 on: February 07, 2013, 08:50:16 AM »

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God may forgive.

Forgive me too. i not mean to abuse you.
just in kind of pain.
May the Lord have mercy on us.

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Все человечество несет ответственность за состояние природы — творения Божия. Истощение ресурсов и загрязнение окружающей среды на фоне роста населения планеты с особой остротой ставят вопрос о солидарных усилиях всех народов для сохранения многообразия жизни, о рачительном использовании природных ресурсов и предотвращении экологических катастроф, спровоцированных человеческой деятельностью.

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whole humanity carry responsibility for nature condition - as it is Gods creation. depletion of natural resources and pollution, with overpopulation of planet, raise issue about consolidation of all nations for preservation of multiple form of life ......

- depletion of natural resources
- overpopulation
it is what really bishop should be concern about?

do not care what to drink or what to eat... or it not for us Jesus told?

РПЦ worry about grow of population? Is not russin federation about to have demographical crisis

Well, I think, what we need to remember, is that when the Church holds such an influencial role in society, they are bound to comment on a lot of issues, even secular. The consequences of climate change, be it manmade or not, might not affect Russia itself, but a lot of other people around the world suffer, when their lands are destroyed by deforestation, rising seas and air pollution. Some of them are also orthodox christians(not that that gives us more reason to care for them, than for others). Since the church is not just russian, but universal, the bishops should be concerned with the well being of all the world. 
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« Reply #73 on: February 07, 2013, 09:10:59 AM »


Well, I think, what we need to remember, is that when the Church holds such an influencial role in society, they are bound to comment on a lot of issues, even secular. The consequences of climate change, be it manmade or not, might not affect Russia itself, but a lot of other people around the world suffer, when their lands are destroyed by deforestation, rising seas and air pollution. Some of them are also orthodox christians(not that that gives us more reason to care for them, than for others). Since the church is not just russian, but universal, the bishops should be concerned with the well being of all the world. 

Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.

Church need to deliver messege about real life. not speculate on mythological eco programmes...
Russia so wealth because pumpping oil and gas, sale food etc.
almost 300 bishops flight fist class to council every year... they meet in golden rooms and eat not bread and even not Mcdonalds.... to feed the 1 bishop cost fortune... and what about 300....

it would be imposible if Russia do not sale gas and oil.... any oil price drop - is catastrophe for Russia as it main resource.



So , all this eco programmes in russia would die as soon as oil stops pumping .... but Church documentation would be still real..... all this fake eco declaration is recoded and sign by not 1 but just about 300 orthodox bishops...






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« Reply #74 on: February 07, 2013, 09:29:53 AM »

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Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.

Quote
Russia so wealth because pumpping oil and gas, sale food etc.
almost 300 bishops flight fist class to council every year... they meet in golden rooms and eat not bread and even not Mcdonalds.... to feed the 1 bishop cost fortune... and what about 300....

it would be imposible if Russia do not sale gas and oil.... any oil price drop - is catastrophe for Russia as it main resource.
I am not necessarily sayng that Russia should completely get rid of fossil fuels.The time isn't right for that now. My country, for example, has almost no natural resources, so we have found other ways to support ourselves. Russia might not be able to do the same, due it's huge population, but I think, they should at least consider the possibilities. 
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« Reply #75 on: February 07, 2013, 09:31:58 AM »

STOP. FEEDING. THE. TROLL!!!

X 3 !!!
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« Reply #76 on: February 07, 2013, 12:38:11 PM »

You are making mountains out of molehills.

РПЦ  council misleads general public about essence and Church and Orthodox value , and you call it molehills.


Who is misleading?

The russian Patriarchate hasn't denounced Orthodoxy. 

I doubt he even know what is it.
He is politician not pastor.

He speaks like gangster.....






And you speak like a deluded sectarian.
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« Reply #77 on: February 07, 2013, 06:47:08 PM »

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Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...





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« Reply #78 on: February 07, 2013, 07:14:07 PM »

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Russia so wealth because pumpping oil and gas, sale food etc.
almost 300 bishops flight fist class to council every year... they meet in golden rooms and eat not bread and even not Mcdonalds.... to feed the 1 bishop cost fortune... and what about 300....

it would be imposible if Russia do not sale gas and oil.... any oil price drop - is catastrophe for Russia as it main resource.
I am not necessarily sayng that Russia should completely get rid of fossil fuels.The time isn't right for that now. My country, for example, has almost no natural resources, so we have found other ways to support ourselves. Russia might not be able to do the same, due it's huge population, but I think, they should at least consider the possibilities.  

rememdber , all money from gas and oil mostly stay offshore or detected to  property around the world and other toys.....
-







ordinary people get NOTHING.

Ordinary people grow own and eat it, and collect wood to keep warm.




I do not complane about rich people wealth, NO...
I even not worry wealthy people speculation on eco programse....

But when those people start feeding general public with "eco issue speculation" ind link church to it.... it is another story.
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« Reply #79 on: February 07, 2013, 07:38:26 PM »

Quote
Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...






We should care about that which is here and now, and right now, people and animals around the world are suffering, because their homes are being destroyed. Christ called us to help the needy, the suffering, and the poor. The Church is only doing right in adressing this.
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« Reply #80 on: February 07, 2013, 07:49:49 PM »

Quote
Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...






We should care about that which is here and now, and right now, people and animals around the world are suffering, because their homes are being destroyed. Christ called us to help the needy, the suffering, and the poor. The Church is only doing right in adressing this.

Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people? Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.
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« Reply #81 on: February 07, 2013, 08:00:13 PM »

Quote
Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...






We should care about that which is here and now, and right now, people and animals around the world are suffering, because their homes are being destroyed. Christ called us to help the needy, the suffering, and the poor. The Church is only doing right in adressing this.

Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people? Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.


And your point is?
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« Reply #82 on: February 07, 2013, 10:47:59 PM »

Quote
Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...






We should care about that which is here and now, and right now, people and animals around the world are suffering, because their homes are being destroyed. Christ called us to help the needy, the suffering, and the poor. The Church is only doing right in adressing this.

Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people? Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.


And your point is?

not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief.

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« Reply #83 on: February 08, 2013, 04:09:34 AM »

Quote
Before , mid east (Israel etc) have lions, crocs, bear etc... not any more... shell we accuse of anciant people for mammoth extintion too??? . well every on know well earth would die. it is fact.
there's so much more to it than just global warming. many people are losing their home and livelihood, because of deforestation, in the pacific, many people have to flea their homes, because the ocean is flooding the island. It creates migration, some of them might seekto Russia. many animals are driven away from their homes and several species are close to extinction.


1. people always migrate. And it have no thing to do with Church.

2. i do not know what islands you talking about, but most islands became populated not so long ago. but it have no thing to do with Church.

3.  species extinction always take place - and it have no thing to do with Church .


Or should we stop to take care about today of out kids and care about tomorrow species extinction, what most time speculation any way.

So when bishops start deviate from primary goals with speculation and fake reference on bible ....  it is not good sign at all...  it is alarming...






We should care about that which is here and now, and right now, people and animals around the world are suffering, because their homes are being destroyed. Christ called us to help the needy, the suffering, and the poor. The Church is only doing right in adressing this.

Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people? Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.


And your point is?

not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief.



Who is "he"?
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« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2013, 09:41:10 AM »


Who is "he"?

"he" is every one who spaculete on "poor" and "eco programmes" .
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