Author Topic: Brother Nathaniel  (Read 39303 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nacho

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,482
  • The face of Corporate America
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #585 on: September 06, 2013, 12:52:12 AM »
LOL funny thread! I saw some of this guy’s vids on youtube. Seems instead of having a 'ministry' focused on Jesus Christ, he plays 'name the Jew' in just about everything he puts out.. ::) You would think after awhile it would get redundant, tedious, and boring; but no nooooot this guy!

It's like dude, everyone and their grandma, uncle, and 2nd cousin knows that some Jews still have large interest in certain industries such as Hollywood. He acts like its some big conspiracy and it's his personal mission to tell the whole world repeatedly over and over. He hardly strikes me as having the 'heart' of a monk.  
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 12:53:27 AM by Nacho »
"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity

Online podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,399
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #586 on: September 06, 2013, 10:03:07 AM »
LOL funny thread! I saw some of this guy’s vids on youtube. Seems instead of having a 'ministry' focused on Jesus Christ, he plays 'name the Jew' in just about everything he puts out.. ::) You would think after awhile it would get redundant, tedious, and boring; but no nooooot this guy!

It's like dude, everyone and their grandma, uncle, and 2nd cousin knows that some Jews still have large interest in certain industries such as Hollywood. He acts like its some big conspiracy and it's his personal mission to tell the whole world repeatedly over and over. He hardly strikes me as having the 'heart' of a monk.  

But, he insists that he represents the views of The Church. That is why the "dude" is neither funny nor humorous.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,482
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #587 on: September 06, 2013, 10:14:18 AM »
Nathaniel does not deserve a seat at the table. He is just repeating the same old tired Anti-Semitic canards. There is no need to dignify his worn out conspiracy theories and bigotry.. They are beyond the pale of rationale debate
 
It's best to just ignore him and if he is disrupting the Church the Bishops will handle the matter 
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,831
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #588 on: September 06, 2013, 10:20:38 AM »
I am pretty sure this is how Christ told us to deal with issues in the Church.  

"And when thou seest impropriety in the house of God, thou shalt make a youtube video disputing the brother that thou art in dispute with and thine video wilt put him to shame and he shall see the error of his ways."

This is the KJV 1611 translation.  It is from the Septuagint.  I think the Masoretic texts leave this verse out.  
Sorry, Trisagion, I spent the last 12 hours looking for it in the LXX, Aramaic, KJV, Coptic and Slavonic texts, but could not find it.

I did see something like that on the Gebredoxy thread though.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 10:20:56 AM by rakovsky »

Offline rakovsky

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,831
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #589 on: September 06, 2013, 10:24:08 AM »
I have spoken to both the Met and Bishop Jerome personally, eye to eye about this.

Their main problem is getting so many complaints about him

Bishop Jerome is on facebook.

We tell the bishop because the bishop has received the charism of binding and loosing, which the apostles received from Christ. The bishop can bind him in his sins, firstly to drive him to repentance, and secondly to prevent him from leading Christ's flock astray. I am sorry to see that in you have embraced such a form of antinomianism which is so inimical to faith in Christ.
Is there a difference between informing your bishop about something he doesn't know, and telling him repeatedly, including on facebook, about a clown?

Online podkarpatska

  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,399
  • Pokrov
    • ACROD (home)
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #590 on: September 06, 2013, 12:39:17 PM »
If someone comes to the door of grandma, dressed like a utility worker with something that looks like an I'D badge, enters her home based on her naivete and burglarizes her, we are all outraged.

The scoundrel is reported to the authorities and often a public announcement is made on the media to be on the lookout for someone posing as a utility inspector , to not let them in and to contact the authorities.

Since when is entrance into one's heart and soul by a religious poseur less of a threat?

That's why we have Bishops and Synods.

 

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,573
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #591 on: September 06, 2013, 12:50:56 PM »
If someone comes to the door of grandma, dressed like a utility worker with something that looks like an I'D badge, enters her home based on her naivete and burglarizes her, we are all outraged.

The scoundrel is reported to the authorities and often a public announcement is made on the media to be on the lookout for someone posing as a utility inspector , to not let them in and to contact the authorities.

Since when is entrance into one's heart and soul by a religious poseur less of a threat?

That's why we have Bishops and Synods.

 

THIS!!!!
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,886
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #592 on: September 06, 2013, 01:33:22 PM »
If someone comes to the door of grandma, dressed like a utility worker with something that looks like an I'D badge, enters her home based on her naivete and burglarizes her, we are all outraged.

The scoundrel is reported to the authorities and often a public announcement is made on the media to be on the lookout for someone posing as a utility inspector , to not let them in and to contact the authorities.

Since when is entrance into one's heart and soul by a religious poseur less of a threat?

That's why we have Bishops and Synods.

Agreed.  That such common sense needs to be spelled out clearly, meticulously, and repeatedly is enough to make many weep.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,482
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #593 on: September 07, 2013, 10:11:14 AM »
I have spoken to both the Met and Bishop Jerome personally, eye to eye about this.

Their main problem is getting so many complaints about him

Bishop Jerome is on facebook.

We tell the bishop because the bishop has received the charism of binding and loosing, which the apostles received from Christ. The bishop can bind him in his sins, firstly to drive him to repentance, and secondly to prevent him from leading Christ's flock astray. I am sorry to see that in you have embraced such a form of antinomianism which is so inimical to faith in Christ.
Is there a difference between informing your bishop about something he doesn't know, and telling him repeatedly, including on facebook, about a clown?

I certainty haven't discussed this "repeatedly" with them. They have apparently gotten many complaints mine being just one.

If you would like to communicate with Bishop Jerome, he is on facebook and very accessible.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Gunnarr

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,934
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #594 on: September 08, 2013, 02:11:32 AM »
Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  

Being a monk grants no man an entitlement to automatic life long respect. Perhaps you start with a presumption of respect, but like any gift, respect can be squandered. I took the time to research this particular fellow last night, he gets no respect in my mind and the statement of the ROCOR simply validated my conclusion.



No one said to grant anyone life long respect! Only respect enough not to discount a person only by appearance!

Anyway, I havea lready been persuaded to change my mind, that people who dress up as monks who are not monks should not be... well, it is hard for me to say, to not respect someone but I probably have a weird definition of respect (some thing like, thatyou will listen to what hehas to say, and not insult him or whatever)

then again I don't give much of respect anyway :p
I am a demonic servant! Beware!

Offline wainscottbl

  • Aspie weirdo of the forum
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,571
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #595 on: October 23, 2013, 03:55:25 PM »
My view has changed somewhat on him getting closer to Orthodoxy. He makes some good points that I think some people get too emotional about, like the racism. Which means I think racism and prejudice is bad, but it's used by certain people to the point of being silly. My problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he makes it look like the elite hold on the world is just the Jews. Yes, there is Zionism and all that, but a lot of the banksters are Gentiles and it's a general problem of a certain elite group who controls things. Of course that opens up conspiracy theories and all that--I am not a conspiracy theorist but the corporate elite really do oppress the working and middle class, which is not to say it is not one single conspiracy, but there is some conspiring and just some organic facts. For example that both parties in this country are pretty much owned by corporations and thus serve money rather than the people. Anyway, Brother Nathaniel makes some good points and I guess his message is meant to be simple, but it acts like it is simply the Jooos. That's far too simple.
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

--Robert E. Lee

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #596 on: October 23, 2013, 03:59:17 PM »
My view has changed somewhat on him getting closer to Orthodoxy. He makes some good points that I think some people get too emotional about, like the racism. Which means I think racism and prejudice is bad, but it's used by certain people to the point of being silly. My problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he makes it look like the elite hold on the world is just the Jews. Yes, there is Zionism and all that, but a lot of the banksters are Gentiles and it's a general problem of a certain elite group who controls things. Of course that opens up conspiracy theories and all that--I am not a conspiracy theorist but the corporate elite really do oppress the working and middle class, which is not to say it is not one single conspiracy, but there is some conspiring and just some organic facts. For example that both parties in this country are pretty much owned by corporations and thus serve money rather than the people. Anyway, Brother Nathaniel makes some good points and I guess his message is meant to be simple, but it acts like it is simply the Jooos. That's far too simple.

He's a goof and his apologists, unless they are just sharpening their skills in sophistry, are spouting goofiness as well.

But really, I would hate a world where Nate didn't exist. He is provides for some fun youtubez.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #597 on: October 23, 2013, 05:16:29 PM »
My view has changed somewhat on him getting closer to Orthodoxy. He makes some good points that I think some people get too emotional about, like the racism. Which means I think racism and prejudice is bad, but it's used by certain people to the point of being silly. My problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he makes it look like the elite hold on the world is just the Jews. Yes, there is Zionism and all that, but a lot of the banksters are Gentiles and it's a general problem of a certain elite group who controls things. Of course that opens up conspiracy theories and all that--I am not a conspiracy theorist but the corporate elite really do oppress the working and middle class, which is not to say it is not one single conspiracy, but there is some conspiring and just some organic facts. For example that both parties in this country are pretty much owned by corporations and thus serve money rather than the people. Anyway, Brother Nathaniel makes some good points and I guess his message is meant to be simple, but it acts like it is simply the Jooos. That's far too simple.

He's a goof and his apologists, unless they are just sharpening their skills in sophistry, are spouting goofiness as well.

But really, I would hate a world where Nate didn't exist. He is provides for some fun youtubez.
QFT
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,267
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #598 on: October 23, 2013, 08:04:41 PM »
My view has changed somewhat on him getting closer to Orthodoxy. He makes some good points that I think some people get too emotional about, like the racism. Which means I think racism and prejudice is bad, but it's used by certain people to the point of being silly. My problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he makes it look like the elite hold on the world is just the Jews. Yes, there is Zionism and all that, but a lot of the banksters are Gentiles and it's a general problem of a certain elite group who controls things. Of course that opens up conspiracy theories and all that--I am not a conspiracy theorist but the corporate elite really do oppress the working and middle class, which is not to say it is not one single conspiracy, but there is some conspiring and just some organic facts. For example that both parties in this country are pretty much owned by corporations and thus serve money rather than the people. Anyway, Brother Nathaniel makes some good points and I guess his message is meant to be simple, but it acts like it is simply the Jooos. That's far too simple.

He's a goof and his apologists, unless they are just sharpening their skills in sophistry, are spouting goofiness as well.

But really, I would hate a world where Nate didn't exist. He is provides for some fun youtubez.
I would like to see you debate him one on one in a fair setting.

We'd see just who the goofball is.

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #599 on: October 23, 2013, 08:09:05 PM »
My view has changed somewhat on him getting closer to Orthodoxy. He makes some good points that I think some people get too emotional about, like the racism. Which means I think racism and prejudice is bad, but it's used by certain people to the point of being silly. My problem with Brother Nathaniel is that he makes it look like the elite hold on the world is just the Jews. Yes, there is Zionism and all that, but a lot of the banksters are Gentiles and it's a general problem of a certain elite group who controls things. Of course that opens up conspiracy theories and all that--I am not a conspiracy theorist but the corporate elite really do oppress the working and middle class, which is not to say it is not one single conspiracy, but there is some conspiring and just some organic facts. For example that both parties in this country are pretty much owned by corporations and thus serve money rather than the people. Anyway, Brother Nathaniel makes some good points and I guess his message is meant to be simple, but it acts like it is simply the Jooos. That's far too simple.

He's a goof and his apologists, unless they are just sharpening their skills in sophistry, are spouting goofiness as well.

But really, I would hate a world where Nate didn't exist. He is provides for some fun youtubez.
I would like to see you debate him one on one in a fair setting.

We'd see just who the goofball is.


Arguing with a goofball "monk" generally doesn't help your street cred.

I'm starting to think that Charles Martel is secretly Brother Nathanael.
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,267
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #600 on: October 23, 2013, 08:20:13 PM »
Quote
Arguing with a goofball "monk" generally doesn't help your street cred.

I think you're afraid of him.

Quote
I'm starting to think that Charles Martel is secretly Brother Nathanael.
Now there's an interesting concept.

But I'm really not that smart.

Don't think so much Tri, you might hurt yourself. ;)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #601 on: October 23, 2013, 08:24:43 PM »
Quote
Arguing with a goofball "monk" generally doesn't help your street cred.

I think you're afraid of him.

Yes, I am in that weird afraid-that-he-would-club-me-over-the-head-with-large-pectoral-cross-and-stick-me-in-a-freezer-in-his-basement type of a way.

Quote
Quote
I'm starting to think that Charles Martel is secretly Brother Nathanael.
Now there's an interesting concept.

But I'm really not that smart.


Don't think so much Tri, you might hurt yourself. ;)
Don't worry, neither is he.  ;)
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Charles Martel

  • Traditional Roman Catholic
  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,267
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #602 on: October 23, 2013, 08:30:31 PM »
All kidding aside, I think the good Brother would clobber just about anyone on OC.net in a one on one debate.

Like I said, in a fair setting.

It's easy to talk smack about somebody who can't defend himself.

Get my drift?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #603 on: October 23, 2013, 08:38:28 PM »
All kidding aside, I think the good Brother would clobber just about anyone on OC.net in a one on one debate.

Like I said, in a fair setting.

It's easy to talk smack about somebody who can't defend himself.

Get my drift?
All kidding aside, I think he has mental issues and should be on medication.
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Ebor

  • Vanyar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,485
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #604 on: October 23, 2013, 08:51:00 PM »
All kidding aside, I think the good Brother would clobber just about anyone on OC.net in a one on one debate.

Like I said, in a fair setting.

It's easy to talk smack about somebody who can't defend himself.

Get my drift?

I had a few encounters with Mr. Kapner a number of years ago on another forum.  He would not "clobber" anyone as I doubt that he would actually address other people and their arguments or critiques of his innuendos, suggestions or unfounded/unsupported remarks about those whom he has taken as targets.  In years past he posted vile and scurrilous things about E.O. Patriarchs and Bishops. Now he goes after others in similar conspiratorial fashion.
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #605 on: October 23, 2013, 10:22:22 PM »
Didn't nate post here once or twice or was that some fraud committed upon the board?
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #606 on: October 23, 2013, 10:28:32 PM »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline Agabus

  • The user formerly known as Agabus.
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,686
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #607 on: October 23, 2013, 10:46:19 PM »
Didn't nate post here once or twice or was that some fraud committed upon the board?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1667
The beauty of a four-post streak ban.

Of course, he didn't appear to be doing more than pushing his livejournal or whatever. Too bad. The discussions could have been fun.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #608 on: October 23, 2013, 10:48:46 PM »
Didn't nate post here once or twice or was that some fraud committed upon the board?
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1667
The beauty of a four-post streak ban.

Of course, he didn't appear to be doing more than pushing his livejournal or whatever. Too bad. The discussions could have been fun.

livejournal . . .

Don't they sometimes lift bans?

Oh well, he is a celebrity to the anti-Semtiic Orthodox crowd now. Which is what percentage of Orthodoxy give or take?
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #609 on: October 24, 2013, 12:10:39 AM »
Oh well, he is a celebrity to the anti-Semtiic Orthodox crowd now. Which is what percentage of Orthodoxy give or take?

Good question.  In my experience, it depends on the jurisdiction.  But I don't have enough experience to accurately guess percentages.  Among the Russians and Serbs that I have dealt with, Jews are not viewed in the best light.  That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so.  And these readings used by the Russians and their like tend to be less than flattering of the Joo.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #610 on: October 24, 2013, 12:40:34 AM »
That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #611 on: October 24, 2013, 09:20:47 AM »
That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?

Yes, I always thought calendars were actually anti-semitic. I mean, they have a whole month about July.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #612 on: October 24, 2013, 09:31:46 AM »
That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?

Yes, I always thought calendars were actually anti-semitic. I mean, they have a whole month about July.
LOL!!!  That took me a sec to get that.  Clever. :laugh:
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,482
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #613 on: October 24, 2013, 11:06:37 AM »
Wow.. I read his OC.net posts about the reunification of ROCOR and Moscow.. I understand that he later reversed his attacks on Rocor.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 955
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #614 on: October 24, 2013, 11:31:22 AM »
That guy is a goofballmagundy. (That is a term that I borrowed from Johnny Superbman on the YouTube channel 2BCProductions2BC). First the dude attacks the Moscow Patriarchate clergy as KGB people, and then he claims to be from ROCOR and do an about face. what the heck is going on?

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #615 on: October 24, 2013, 02:04:38 PM »
Well, unless you have it memorized, a religious calendar is a good place to see what Saints are being celebrated on that day.  That, in turn, tells you where to go in the various service books to find the verses that will be used in the Canons for the various services, provided that the Church is question 1) still uses any of the services that have Canons and verses, or 2) they actually use verses beyond the Irmoi (sp?) which are about all that are printed in most service books.  If we read these verses during the course of the year, it can be seen that very few that mention the Jews do so in a kind and compasionate manner.  If one reads the complete life of the Saint(s) of the day, Jews mentioned therein are not highly praised unless they are converting.  Normally, however, they are betraying or killing or causing to be killed the Saint in question.

That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,482
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #616 on: October 24, 2013, 03:13:53 PM »
There is a difference between abhorrence for the Jewish rejection of the (their) Messiah and their part in his arrest and crusifixtion ( which is what we recall in our services) and the various Antisemitic formulations about a modern World Wide Political conspiracy.

We also need to remember that while a minority of the population, many Jews believed. The 5,000 who were fed loaves and fish were not 5,000 Serbs, Greeks and Irish. The people who lined the streets of Jerusalem and welcomed the Lord with Palms were not the Romans, they were all Jews. Not to even mention the Apostles and the 70 and ..etc etc.

Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

 

 
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Fr.Aidan

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 503
  • Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam
    • Oremus blog for Roman Rite Orthodoxy
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #617 on: October 24, 2013, 03:18:07 PM »
I'm sure somebody posted it already, but is everyone aware that the ROCOR Synod sanctioned Br. Nathanael, who is no longer permitted to do the videos and whatnot?

ROCOR has spoken. Br. Nathanael is not allowed to do what he has been doing.

And some of us are relieved! Except it appears that he is ignoring the directive.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #618 on: October 24, 2013, 03:20:24 PM »
I'm sure somebody posted it already, but is everyone aware that the ROCOR Synod sanctioned Br. Nathanael, who is no longer permitted to do the videos and whatnot?

ROCOR has spoken. Br. Nathanael is not allowed to do what he has been doing.

And some of us are relieved! Except it appears that he is ignoring the directive.

I don't think any takes him seriously or believe he reflects ROCOR, at least that is my hope.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Online Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,886
  • "I pledge allegiance to the flag..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #619 on: October 24, 2013, 03:31:23 PM »
Except it appears that he is ignoring the directive.

Shocking! 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #620 on: October 24, 2013, 06:22:50 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,793
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #621 on: October 24, 2013, 06:25:58 PM »
And some of us are relieved!

Judging from your previous vehement defense of him, I'm guessing you're not one of them?

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,313
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #622 on: October 24, 2013, 06:26:55 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.
That was by no means particular to Orthodox countries.
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

Offline mike

  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 22,589
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #623 on: October 24, 2013, 06:28:04 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.
That was by no means particular to Orthodox countries.

Actually most Jews prior to Holocaust lived on Polish - Belarusian/Ukrainian borderline. Poland was the biggest Jewish country.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 06:28:46 PM by Michał Kalina »
Hyperdox Herman, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - fb, Eastern Orthodox Christian News - tt

not everything I typed before [insert current date] may reflect my current views on the subject

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,793
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #624 on: October 24, 2013, 06:30:52 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.
That was by no means particular to Orthodox countries.

Not Punch's point, as far as I can tell. I think he's saying that yes, you can draw a line from Br. Nathaniel's theories to the Orthodox tradition, even if he is distorting and twisting that tradition. I would say that he is really not ultimately drawing from the tradition, but just mining it to put a Christian veneer on attitudes he had before he encountered Orthodoxy.

Offline Marc1152

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 14,482
  • Probiotic .. Antibiotic
  • Jurisdiction: Rocor
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #625 on: October 24, 2013, 08:30:56 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.

Certainly liturgical  condemnations have encouraged and emboldened various bigots through the ages, no question. But the tie between those things and supposed modern global conspiracies takes some effort.... and imagination.
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #626 on: October 24, 2013, 08:40:52 PM »
That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?

So that we don't keep Pascha with the Jews.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #627 on: October 27, 2013, 10:40:55 PM »
That is probably because I have found that most of the Churches in these jurisdictions (particularly the Russians) have not gutted everything out of the services that would possibly require someone to look at a calendar and maybe stand an extra hour or so. 

LOL

What Jew hating has in common with the calendar?

So that we don't keep Pascha with the Jews.

Actually, not keeping Pascha with the Jews is kinder to the Jews than much of the verbiage in the weeks prior to Pascha.  We do not keep Pascha with the Jews because it is important that the Passover be served before the Pasha, since the Passover was the prototype of the Pascha.  The finish product cannot come before the prototype.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Punch

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 5,801
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #628 on: October 27, 2013, 10:41:49 PM »
Making a direct link between the condemnations in our Liturgies and hymns and the crazy political theories Br. Nathaniel spews is a stretch.

Not really.  In fact, not at all.  The political theories of Brother Nataniel can be traced down a long and direct path to those writings.  However, much like the game of "telephone", being able to trace something to the source does not mean that the message that got through was the message intended.  He is not the only one.  When my relatives were enjoying their road trip through Orthodox countries in the 1940's, they did not have to look too hard for Jews.  The "Orthodox" populations of those countries were more than happy to turn them over.
That was by no means particular to Orthodox countries.

Not Punch's point, as far as I can tell. I think he's saying that yes, you can draw a line from Br. Nathaniel's theories to the Orthodox tradition, even if he is distorting and twisting that tradition. I would say that he is really not ultimately drawing from the tradition, but just mining it to put a Christian veneer on attitudes he had before he encountered Orthodoxy.

Correct on the first point, and I somewhat agree on the second.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Opus118

  • Site Supporter
  • OC.net guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,996
Re: Brother Nathaniel
« Reply #629 on: October 27, 2013, 10:55:19 PM »
That guy is a goofballmagundy. (That is a term that I borrowed from Johnny Superbman on the YouTube channel 2BCProductions2BC). First the dude attacks the Moscow Patriarchate clergy as KGB people, and then he claims to be from ROCOR and do an about face. what the heck is going on?

He learned the KGB angle from Konstantin Preobrazhenskiy, who is sponsored by the CIA.  The funny thing is, Brother Nathaniel writes to the State Dept. telling them what an operative of the US govenment told him because he did not look into the background of  Konstantin Preobrazhenskiy.