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Author Topic: Brother Nathaniel  (Read 30896 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #540 on: September 04, 2013, 01:06:18 PM »

Look at these people.... Going to somebody's bishop to complain.  That's weak and tattle-tale ish.  Why not make your own videos disproving what he is saying (if you can)?  Fight him with intellect rather than going to his "mommy" and telling.  Just seems so cowardly.  If he's wrong, make a video showing how his is wrong.    If you don't like his anti-zionist stances, fight him on his own platform.  You are more than free to make youtube videos.  Going and telling his bishop is childish.

It's not childish, it's Orthodox.  What is the point of an "overseer" if you can't bring to his attention things that may require his oversight? 

What you advocate is Protestantism.  Yeah, that's worked out well. 
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« Reply #541 on: September 04, 2013, 01:10:07 PM »


'Nuff said.

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« Reply #542 on: September 04, 2013, 01:13:45 PM »

I never understood how "so many EO" (according to YiM) could look past the clownish appearance and demeanour of this fellow in order to watch his videos and become groupies.  Surely your Church doesn't really attract as many stupid people as the internet would lead us to believe?   
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« Reply #543 on: September 04, 2013, 01:18:19 PM »

I never understood how "so many EO" (according to YiM) could look past the clownish appearance and demeanour of this fellow in order to watch his videos and become groupies.  Surely your Church doesn't really attract as many stupid people as the internet would lead us to believe?   
I'm sure there are plenty of wackjob EOs out there who think he is great, but I'm not so sure YiM's perspective of Eastern Orthodoxy is exactly accurate.  I don't think there is any groundswell of support for "Brother" Nathanael.
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« Reply #544 on: September 04, 2013, 01:21:23 PM »

Those that despise say "Put that monk in his place".

He is not a monk.

It's not childish, it's Orthodox.  What is the point of an "overseer" if you can't bring to his attention things that may require his oversight?  

What you advocate is Protestantism.  Yeah, that's worked out well.  

Because yeshuaisiam IS a Protestant.
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« Reply #545 on: September 04, 2013, 01:22:39 PM »

But Trisagion, even two "wackjob EOs" is three too many.  This should never have required a synodal clarification.  All that should've been necessary in any reasonably normal human society was to take one look at the photo you posted and just say "no".  
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« Reply #546 on: September 04, 2013, 01:24:18 PM »

I never understood how "so many EO" (according to YiM) could look past the clownish appearance and demeanour of this fellow in order to watch his videos and become groupies.  Surely your Church doesn't really attract as many stupid people as the internet would lead us to believe?   

I think most of his groupies were not Orthodox.
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« Reply #547 on: September 04, 2013, 01:26:31 PM »

But Trisagion, even two "wackjob EOs" is three too many.  This should never have required a synodal clarification.  All that should've been necessary in any reasonably normal human society was to take one look at the photo you posted and just say "no".  

I think, before everything went online, that no synod would have dealt with the matter at all. But the Internet has a way of blowing things out of proportion. And one has to be concerned for the brand name.
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« Reply #548 on: September 04, 2013, 01:42:39 PM »

I think, before everything went online, that no synod would have dealt with the matter at all. But the Internet has a way of blowing things out of proportion. And one has to be concerned for the brand name.

Then he should've been made into a meme.   
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« Reply #549 on: September 04, 2013, 02:31:16 PM »

Where is the evidence that Met. Hilarion or Bishop Jerome supported Nathanael's antics?
N. Kapner claimed their approval on his website and elsewhere. It's not a baseless claim either, because he was making his public campaign for years while dressed in Orthodox-style regalia and a member of ROCOR, and those hierarchs did not deny his open announcement of their approval. Granted, none of those things are conclusive that they did, and it wouldn't have amounted to active support.

I think a very simple and plausible explanation is that these have too much real stuff on their plate. And now we have Nathaniel's word versus a very official and public statement from the synod. Yes, case closed. Orthodox Christianity and white nationalism are not compatible... though we all knew that already.
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« Reply #550 on: September 04, 2013, 02:58:31 PM »

But Trisagion, even two "wackjob EOs" is three too many.  This should never have required a synodal clarification.  All that should've been necessary in any reasonably normal human society was to take one look at the photo you posted and just say "no".  
Theoretically, I agree with you, but after having spent far more time than I ought online, I have come to the realization that a good 50% of the online population are just stark raving mad lunatics.  Heck, there are people on here that I wonder how they were smart enough to descend the birth canal, yet here they are, spouting nonsense on a daily basis.  Undecided
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« Reply #551 on: September 04, 2013, 03:24:29 PM »

Look at these people.... Going to somebody's bishop to complain.  That's weak and tattle-tale ish.  Why not make your own videos disproving what he is saying (if you can)?  Fight him with intellect rather than going to his "mommy" and telling.  Just seems so cowardly.  If he's wrong, make a video showing how his is wrong.    If you don't like his anti-zionist stances, fight him on his own platform.  You are more than free to make youtube videos.  Going and telling his bishop is childish.

It's not childish, it's Orthodox.  What is the point of an "overseer" if you can't bring to his attention things that may require his oversight? 

What you advocate is Protestantism.  Yeah, that's worked out well. 

Exactly, and if Mr. Kepner wishes to be a Protestant or anything else, just like Yeshuasisiasm , that's his business. But he holds himself out as somehow operating with the blessing of some  Orthodox authority and if he is not truthful in that regard with respect to the ROCOR, well the Synod acted appropriately as Orthodoxy is a hierarchical organization.

Those of you who take issue with the hierarchical nature of Orthodoxy, please leave the house  - figuratively - you are not Orthodox if you reject the structure of the Church. Be honest and be a modern day Bespopovtsy.

Yeshuaisiasm is honest about where he stands and I respect that, even though I have few points of agreement with him.
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« Reply #552 on: September 04, 2013, 03:30:10 PM »

But Trisagion, even two "wackjob EOs" is three too many.  This should never have required a synodal clarification.  All that should've been necessary in any reasonably normal human society was to take one look at the photo you posted and just say "no".  

Amen.
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« Reply #553 on: September 04, 2013, 09:03:32 PM »


Why does he have a white glove and a black glove, or gloves at all?
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« Reply #554 on: September 04, 2013, 09:28:12 PM »


Why does he have a white glove and a black glove, or gloves at all?

Symbolism. It's all about symbolism.

Or Michael Jackson, who was also all about symbolism.
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« Reply #555 on: September 04, 2013, 09:30:13 PM »

Maybe he finds inspiration in the King of Pop.  It don't matter if you're



or



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« Reply #556 on: September 04, 2013, 09:30:37 PM »

Or Michael Jackson, who was also all about symbolism.

You beat me to it!
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« Reply #557 on: September 04, 2013, 11:05:32 PM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous
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« Reply #558 on: September 04, 2013, 11:11:14 PM »

I like what he has to say most of the time.  His videos are good.

His videos have much in the way of innuendo and suggestions without basis or real fact. He makes claims without supporting evidence. He puts pictures together with his words that may together create an impression of something that is not true.  The last I checked his site he had things on the loathsome "Protocols" which document is a forgery and a lie.  In the past he had a site with vile calumny against various EO hierarchs.  He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  

Because one happens to like what someone else says does not make the statements true.  

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Obviously his abbot approves.


How is it "obvious" please?  Particularly since as far as others who are EO have posted, Mr. Kapner does not have an abbot.

<edited to put the correct law enforcement unit in the sentence.  After nearly 8 years I had to check the E-cafe postings for the precise information>
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« Reply #559 on: September 04, 2013, 11:19:01 PM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  
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« Reply #560 on: September 04, 2013, 11:35:47 PM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  

That fancy latin phrase changed my mind, I think you are right

 I CHANGE MY OPINION

no fool for christ dressed up as a monk while not being one! tHEREFORE, all those dressed up as monks who are not monks must be ignored!

Therefor, bang! (although, that is restricting any future fools for christ... oh well, they should know better and stick to being naked like the stories told, those fools being foolish)

thank you, your dialogue has changed a mind

a good thing i did not keep my opinion for three times
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« Reply #561 on: September 05, 2013, 09:48:25 AM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  

Being a monk grants no man an entitlement to automatic life long respect. Perhaps you start with a presumption of respect, but like any gift, respect can be squandered. I took the time to research this particular fellow last night, he gets no respect in my mind and the statement of the ROCOR simply validated my conclusion.

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« Reply #562 on: September 05, 2013, 09:55:26 AM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  

Being a monk grants no man an entitlement to automatic life long respect. Perhaps you start with a presumption of respect, but like any gift, respect can be squandered. I took the time to research this particular fellow last night, he gets no respect in my mind and the statement of the ROCOR simply validated my conclusion.


I disagree, a long enough beard shall cover a multitude of sins.  Brother Nathanael's failing is the lack of a truly lengthy beard. It is more of a big fuzz patch sitting on his head. Wink
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« Reply #563 on: September 05, 2013, 10:14:46 AM »

Ah, but he carries many crosses.  That must count for something.
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« Reply #564 on: September 05, 2013, 10:24:24 AM »

I like what he has to say most of the time.  His videos are good.

Issues such as "where he belongs, who he is with" has NOTHING to do with what he is saying.   That's just playing the control paradigm to see who "ranks" him... That way it would be easier to manipulate one's agenda against him if a person does not like what he is saying.

Obviously his abbot approves.

Despite anything else said, he certainly lives in a beautiful area of the country.

His Abbot? I am pretty sure he has no Abbot. If he does have one let us know who he is.

Loose cannon
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« Reply #565 on: September 05, 2013, 10:29:03 AM »

Many fools for christ were naked, are we supposed to say "no" to them??

I've never met any fools for Christ, but I've known quite a few fools.  Definitely, just say no to those.  

Quote
I dont think nathaniel is a fool for christ, I dont like his opinions very much he sounds like a nut job

but just saying "no" because of an image does not make much sense, "DONT JUDGE A BOOK BY ITS COVER" - St. Anonymous

But a book's cover doesn't necessarily tell you anything about the quality of the book, which is why we have that saying.  A monastic novice, on the other hand, does not dress like "Brother" "Nathanael".  So if the latter presents himself the way he does, I'd say yes, in fact we can and should "judge" him.  Habitus non facit monachum, but it's a pretty good indicator.  

That fancy latin phrase changed my mind, I think you are right

 I CHANGE MY OPINION

no fool for christ dressed up as a monk while not being one! tHEREFORE, all those dressed up as monks who are not monks must be ignored!

Therefor, bang! (although, that is restricting any future fools for christ... oh well, they should know better and stick to being naked like the stories told, those fools being foolish)

thank you, your dialogue has changed a mind

a good thing i did not keep my opinion for three times

He is a tonsured novice monk. But he is not under anyone's obedience and is out in the World on his own. He does not belong to any Monastery..
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« Reply #566 on: September 05, 2013, 10:38:20 AM »

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He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.
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« Reply #567 on: September 05, 2013, 10:45:11 AM »

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He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

Thanks....Move to amend comment.
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« Reply #568 on: September 05, 2013, 10:48:48 AM »

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He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

Thanks....Move to amend comment.

.... and once the monastic is thus received, he is bound to stay a monastic, obedient to his abbot.
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« Reply #569 on: September 05, 2013, 11:38:45 AM »

He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  
If a person decides they do not want to go into the monashestvo (monks' organization), that means they are no longer a novice, right? Because the purpose of the novice level is to decide if they want to or not?  So that would mean he is not "Br." Nathanael?

Do you have a link to Eus. Cafe's site?
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« Reply #570 on: September 05, 2013, 11:41:54 AM »

He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  
If a person decides they do not want to go into the monashestvo (monks' organization), that means they are no longer a novice, right? Because the purpose of the novice level is to decide if they want to or not?  So that would mean he is not "Br." Nathanael?

Do you have a link to Eus. Cafe's site?

This is correct. The key phrase of all this is he "was a novice."  He is under no authority but his own.
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« Reply #571 on: September 05, 2013, 11:42:09 AM »

He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  
If a person decides they do not want to go into the monashestvo (monks' organization), that means they are no longer a novice, right? Because the purpose of the novice level is to decide if they want to or not?  So that would mean he is not "Br." Nathanael?

Do you have a link to Eus. Cafe's site?

Do you want one(s) to some of the particular threads from that time as well as others that Mr. Kapner wrote?
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« Reply #572 on: September 05, 2013, 12:20:20 PM »

He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  
If a person decides they do not want to go into the monashestvo (monks' organization), that means they are no longer a novice, right? Because the purpose of the novice level is to decide if they want to or not?  So that would mean he is not "Br." Nathanael?

Do you have a link to Eus. Cafe's site?

Do you want one(s) to some of the particular threads from that time as well as others that Mr. Kapner wrote?


I will state my mind. If you read his website and ramblings, as well as the infomation links on numerous sites about him, coupled with the recent letter of the ROCOR Synod there is but one conclusion available to an Orthodox Christian with respect to this man.

For the most part, the views he espouses as most important (his racial politics) - not the syrupy window dressing themes designed to snare the unsuspecting - are repellent to the Gospels and the teachings of the Church. Follow him at the peril of your own salvation.
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« Reply #573 on: September 05, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »

He was a novice at the monastery in Colorado which was at one time ROAC (Metropolitan Valentine of Suzdal) until the then head separated from that body and is now  Archbishop Gregory "of Denver and Colorado".  Mr. Kapner's leaving that place involved accusations and the local sheriff's department among other things.  Several persons here were also at the Euphrosynos Cafe in 2005 when information on this was posted by Mr. Kapner himself.  
If a person decides they do not want to go into the monashestvo (monks' organization), that means they are no longer a novice, right? Because the purpose of the novice level is to decide if they want to or not?  So that would mean he is not "Br." Nathanael?

Do you have a link to Eus. Cafe's site?

Do you want one(s) to some of the particular threads from that time as well as others that Mr. Kapner wrote?


I will state my mind. If you read his website and ramblings, as well as the infomation links on numerous sites about him, coupled with the recent letter of the ROCOR Synod there is but one conclusion available to an Orthodox Christian with respect to this man.

For the most part, the views he espouses as most important (his racial politics) - not the syrupy window dressing themes designed to snare the unsuspecting - are repellent to the Gospels and the teachings of the Church. Follow him at the peril of your own salvation.

I concur, not because of the statement on behalf of ROCOR-MP, but for everything else written above.
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« Reply #574 on: September 05, 2013, 01:52:19 PM »

Do you want one(s) to some of the particular threads from that time as well as others that Mr. Kapner wrote?
I am curious about the accusations.
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« Reply #575 on: September 05, 2013, 05:44:37 PM »

I never understood how "so many EO" (according to YiM) could look past the clownish appearance and demeanour of this fellow in order to watch his videos and become groupies.  Surely your Church doesn't really attract as many stupid people as the internet would lead us to believe?  
I'm sure there are plenty of wackjob EOs out there who think he is great, but I'm not so sure YiM's perspective of Eastern Orthodoxy is exactly accurate.  I don't think there is any groundswell of support for "Brother" Nathanael.

He has a lot of support.  Also the "clownish appearance" had to deal the OT and not cutting beards.
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« Reply #576 on: September 05, 2013, 06:09:58 PM »

Quote
He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  "Let's figure out his rank and where he stands".

Challenge his content.  Make videos showing how he is wrong.
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« Reply #577 on: September 05, 2013, 06:12:30 PM »


Why does he have a white glove and a black glove, or gloves at all?

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« Reply #578 on: September 05, 2013, 06:29:03 PM »

Quote
He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  "Let's figure out his rank and where he stands".

Challenge his content.  Make videos showing how he is wrong.

If you need a video to demonstrate to you why white nationalism is abhorrent, you are in trouble.
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« Reply #579 on: September 05, 2013, 07:20:33 PM »

Quote
He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  "Let's figure out his rank and where he stands".

Challenge his content.  Make videos showing how he is wrong.

If you need a video to demonstrate to you why white nationalism is abhorrent, you are in trouble.

For someone who is so fond of the first century Church, one would think the admonition of the Apostle Paul to the Galatians would suffice:

"For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise."

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« Reply #580 on: September 05, 2013, 07:32:52 PM »

I never understood how "so many EO" (according to YiM) could look past the clownish appearance and demeanour of this fellow in order to watch his videos and become groupies.  Surely your Church doesn't really attract as many stupid people as the internet would lead us to believe?  
I'm sure there are plenty of wackjob EOs out there who think he is great, but I'm not so sure YiM's perspective of Eastern Orthodoxy is exactly accurate.  I don't think there is any groundswell of support for "Brother" Nathanael.

He has a lot of support.  Also the "clownish appearance" had to deal the OT and not cutting beards.
No... he has many more issues going on there than just not cutting beards.
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« Reply #581 on: September 05, 2013, 07:33:16 PM »

LOL!  Nice Michal!  laugh
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« Reply #582 on: September 05, 2013, 07:37:04 PM »

Quote
He is a tonsured novice monk.

Novices are not tonsured. Tonsuring is done when the novice becomes a rassophore monk.

This is exactly what I was talking about.  "Let's figure out his rank and where he stands".

Challenge his content.  Make videos showing how he is wrong.
I am pretty sure this is how Christ told us to deal with issues in the Church. 

"And when thou seest impropriety in the house of God, thou shalt make a youtube video disputing the brother that thou art in dispute with and thine video wilt put him to shame and he shall see the error of his ways."

This is the KJV 1611 translation.  It is from the Septuagint.  I think the Masoretic texts leave this verse out.   Angry
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« Reply #583 on: September 05, 2013, 07:43:55 PM »

He has a lot of support.  Also the "clownish appearance" had to deal the OT and not cutting beards.

No, it really doesn't.  I'm from NY.  We have plenty of Orthodox and Hasidic Jews.  They do not look like clowns.  "Brother" "Nathaniel" does not look like them, and it's not just about the crosses.

Where is his "lot of support"?  
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« Reply #584 on: September 05, 2013, 10:07:52 PM »

I have spoken to both the Met and Bishop Jerome personally, eye to eye about this.

Their main problem is getting so many complaints about him

Bishop Jerome is on facebook.

Look at these people.... Going to somebody's bishop to complain.  That's weak and tattle-tale ish.  Why not make your own videos disproving what he is saying (if you can)?  Fight him with intellect rather than going to his "mommy" and telling.  Just seems so cowardly.  If he's wrong, make a video showing how his is wrong.    If you don't like his anti-zionist stances, fight him on his own platform.  You are more than free to make youtube videos.  Going and telling his bishop is childish.

We tell the bishop because the bishop has received the charism of binding and loosing, which the apostles received from Christ. The bishop can bind him in his sins, firstly to drive him to repentance, and secondly to prevent him from leading Christ's flock astray. I am sorry to see that in you have embraced such a form of antinomianism which is so inimical to faith in Christ.
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