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Author Topic: Brother Nathaniel  (Read 32885 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #450 on: July 25, 2013, 01:21:37 AM »


Guess again:
     

At some point in the last decades of the 8th century or the early 9th century, the Khazar royalty and nobility converted to Judaism, and part of the general population may have followed.[99] The extent of the conversion is debated. The 10th century Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih reported that "all the Khazars are Jews." Notwithstanding this statement, most scholars believe that only the upper classes converted to Judaism;[100] there is some support for this in contemporary Muslim texts.[101]

Contemporary historians provided much detail about the religion and daily life of Khazars. One of the most detailed descriptions of Khazars came from Arab historian Ahmed ibn Fadlan, who traveled to Khazaria in 922 as the emissary of the Baghdad caliph. According to his account the majority of Khazars were Muslims and Christians, while the Jewish population represented a minority in the kingdom. According to ibn Fadlan, contrary to non-Jewish Khazars, the king and his royal court were Jewish. Ibn Fadlan claimed that 100,000 Muslims lived in Khazaria, and thirty mosques were established there. He also described a strong pagan community consisting mostly of Slavic peoples. Regarding governance, Ibn Fadlan wrote that judges were elected equally from Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and Pagan communities.[102] Dmitry Vasilyev, a professor at Astrakhan State University who excavated sites associated with Khazars, states that after the fall of the Khazar empire, "Khazars were slowly assimilated by Turkic-speaking tribes, Tatars and Mongols."[103]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars
Why believe the Arab historian Ahmed ibn Fadlan over the Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih ?
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« Reply #451 on: July 25, 2013, 01:27:16 AM »

The written accounts from the 10th century clearly indicate that only the nobility converted and just a small layer of the population.
You are contradicting yourself because above you quote  the written account of the 10th century  Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih as saying "all the Khazars are Jews." 
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« Reply #452 on: July 25, 2013, 01:54:41 AM »

Dionysii,
You wrote:
1) Demons are the enemies at the most fundamental level of conspiracy
Do you have any ideas about the origins of the Star of David? In ancient paleo-Hebrew script from David's time, the alphabet looked much like the Greek Alphabet. The letter D was written as a Greek Delta or triangle. David's name was written Delta Ypsilon Delta, as I recall, and one idea is that these three letters form the interlocking Deltas in the Star. In Byzantine times, Christians venerated a ring with the Seal of Solomon, which is supposedly the same thing.

An opposite idea points out that the Old Testament opposes the "star" of one of the pagan demigods used in the Holy Land. According to this idea, the star was passed down as a pagan symbol within the religious community there. One of the ideas- in the Talmud I think- is that the Star of David was used to manipulate demons, making it perhaps an occult symbol. Then in Medieval times a German or Czech king assigned the Star of David to the Rabbinical community. However, the traditional rabbis preferred using the menorah instead of having the other sign imposed on them by the nationalists.

So there are two opposite views about the history of the symbol.

The world is still ruled by gentile power, and no amount of Jewish conspiracy (real or imagined) will change that until the appointed time when the Jews are regathered as outlined by the prophet Ezekiel.
Perhaps your reading of Ezekiel is too physical. That is, the Church sees itself as Israel, and naturally the Jews will eventually be included in that. However, isn't it questionable whether the Jews as a national group will rule the world in the apocalypse?
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« Reply #453 on: July 25, 2013, 01:58:11 AM »

Holocaustianity. How did I miss this?  Grin
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« Reply #454 on: July 25, 2013, 05:22:50 AM »

Do you have any ideas about the origins of the Star of David?
I have heard that 'The Six Pointed Star' by O. J. Graham is an informative book which views the symbol as occult, but I have not yet read this book.
 
In Byzantine times, Christians venerated a ring with the Seal of Solomon, which is supposedly the same thing.
Could you mention more details or the source of this information?

isn't it questionable whether the Jews as a national group will rule the world in the apocalypse?
To answer your question precisely, I would have to say I do not know.  Nor do I specifically recall reading any Christian prophecy to the effect that Jews as a national group will rule the world. 

I have read more than one prophecy (such as Saint Methodius of Patara) that specifically states that the antichrist will be a Jew of the tribe of Dan who "will be born in the town of Chorazaim, nourished in Bethsaida, and reign in Capernaum" which are the three towns that our Lord Jesus curses in the Gospel of Luke. 

However, I do believe what I have read in the life of Saint Andrew the Fool for Christ that after the city of Constantinople is physically submerged in the sea bringing gentile power to an end the Jews as a national group will be regathered to the land of Israel from across the world as in the days when they fled Egypt.  It has been a while since I read this prophecy, but I do not specifically recall mention that the Jews as a nation will rule the world.  I'll have to take a look at it. 

(The Andreas Salos Apocalypse translated by Lennart Ryden, Dumbarton Oaks Papers Volume #28, 1974)
This is probably the best and most detailed Byzantine prophecy I have come across (although Saint Methodius is also worth mentioning.)
I photocopied this in both Greek and English translation a few years ago at a well stocked university library which has old annual volumes issued by the Dumbarton Oaks Centre for Byzantine Studies, but the only place I found this on the internet is JSTOR which does indicate it permits a free ten day registration for three downloads.  Otherwise, most university libraries subscribe to JSTOR meaning someone can simply walk in & bring it up on a computer and print it out or save it to their email.  It is about 20 to 25 pages total including the intro and both translations of about ten pages each.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1291359?uid=3739600&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102559568187
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« Reply #455 on: July 25, 2013, 05:45:15 AM »

They say Ashkenazi ladies have a genetic predisposition to breast cancer, whereas the males are predisposed to conditions like diabetes IIRC. I guess the gene that makes them smarter (if there is one) ought to compensate for all that.

Inbreeding is the cause IMO. Ashkenazi suffer from many genetic diseases.
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« Reply #456 on: July 25, 2013, 06:18:22 AM »

They say Ashkenazi ladies have a genetic predisposition to breast cancer, whereas the males are predisposed to conditions like diabetes IIRC. I guess the gene that makes them smarter (if there is one) ought to compensate for all that.

Inbreeding is the cause IMO. Ashkenazi suffer from many genetic diseases.

Cochran and Harpending advanced the hypothesis that the same genes responsible for diseases like Tay-Sachs are also responsible for higher Ashkenazi IQ.

Here is their paper:

http://stormchan.org/study/src/1347441770080.pdf

Here's a critique of their paper:

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/index1.html
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 06:18:42 AM by Jonathan Gress » Logged
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« Reply #457 on: July 25, 2013, 08:09:20 AM »

According to Brother Nathaniel, Archbishop Kyrill has made a public condemnation of a laymen in the jurisdiction of another bishop while falsely claiming the consent of other bishops who in fact knew nothing about it at the time.  If this is true and consistent with Archbishop Kyrill's character, then it might be revealing to learn more about his history.

Nathaniel finds himself in a canonically problematic position with regard to the Synod's statement and his own claims regarding Bp. Jerome's blessing.  Nathaniel claims to belong to ROCOR and resides in the canonical territory of Abp Kyrril.  This statement was signed by Abp Kyrril as the secretary to the Synod, but he was blessed by the Synod to sign it on behalf of the Synod. 

As to the supposed blessing of Bp. Jerome, while there can exist stavropegial monasteries that are directly under the Metropolitan while being located in the diocese of another bishop, Bp. Jerome is not the Metropolitan and Nathaniel does not reside in a monastery.  A former novice who is not in a monastery, who is not living under monastic obedience, is not a monk.  Futhemore, Bp. Jerome was not even a diocesan bishop but an auxiliary bishop to the Metropolitan who has recently been forced into retirement for his uncanonical activities regarding the Western Rite Vicariate.  Part of what led to his retirement was the fact that he gave his blessing for things which he did not have the authority to bless without also having the Metropolitan's blessing.  While Nathaniel claims to be a "regular communicant in good standing at the Synodal Cathedral in Manhattan", even though he resides in the territory of Abp Kyrril, with the retirement of Bp. Jerome of Manhattan and this statement from the Synod he finds himself in a precarious position without much of an argument in his favor. 

As I mentioned before, Nathaniel should choose to either follow Abp Kyrril's advice and actually become a monk, retiring from the spotlight to live a life of prayer and repentance under monastic obedience; or, he should stop pretending to be a monk, he should abandon his monastic and hierarchical attire, and he should present himself as the mere lay political commentator that he is.  His claim to be a monk of the Orthodox Church does not lend credibility to his message but rather scandalizes the Orthodox faithful and opens up the holy order of Orthodox monasticism to the world's ridicule.  I say this not as one who disagrees with the factual content that he posts, but as one who objects to him deceiving people regarding his monastic state. 
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 08:12:23 AM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #458 on: July 25, 2013, 08:51:21 AM »

Amen to that
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« Reply #459 on: July 25, 2013, 09:00:30 AM »

As I mentioned before, Nathaniel should choose to either follow Abp Kyrril's advice and actually become a monk, retiring from the spotlight to live a life of prayer and repentance under monastic obedience; or, he should stop pretending to be a monk, he should abandon his monastic and hierarchical attire, and he should present himself as the mere lay political commentator that he is.  His claim to be a monk of the Orthodox Church does not lend credibility to his message but rather scandalizes the Orthodox faithful and opens up the holy order of Orthodox monasticism to the world's ridicule.  I say this not as one who disagrees with the factual content that he posts, but as one who objects to him deceiving people regarding his monastic state. 

I think this part of what you post is at the very least worth consideration.
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« Reply #460 on: July 25, 2013, 10:58:53 AM »


Guess again:
     

At some point in the last decades of the 8th century or the early 9th century, the Khazar royalty and nobility converted to Judaism, and part of the general population may have followed.[99] The extent of the conversion is debated. The 10th century Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih reported that "all the Khazars are Jews." Notwithstanding this statement, most scholars believe that only the upper classes converted to Judaism;[100] there is some support for this in contemporary Muslim texts.[101]

Contemporary historians provided much detail about the religion and daily life of Khazars. One of the most detailed descriptions of Khazars came from Arab historian Ahmed ibn Fadlan, who traveled to Khazaria in 922 as the emissary of the Baghdad caliph. According to his account the majority of Khazars were Muslims and Christians, while the Jewish population represented a minority in the kingdom. According to ibn Fadlan, contrary to non-Jewish Khazars, the king and his royal court were Jewish. Ibn Fadlan claimed that 100,000 Muslims lived in Khazaria, and thirty mosques were established there. He also described a strong pagan community consisting mostly of Slavic peoples. Regarding governance, Ibn Fadlan wrote that judges were elected equally from Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and Pagan communities.[102] Dmitry Vasilyev, a professor at Astrakhan State University who excavated sites associated with Khazars, states that after the fall of the Khazar empire, "Khazars were slowly assimilated by Turkic-speaking tribes, Tatars and Mongols."[103]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazarpt
Why believe the Arab historian Ahmed ibn Fadlan over the Persian historian Ibn al-Faqih ?

Because at no point does the claim hold water. The DNA doesnt hold up. The linguistics don't hold up. The population migration doesnt hold up. And the contemporary observations don't hold up except for one you mentioned that could well have been an  observation of the Khazar Aristocracy and not an observation of the entire population.

The Khazar aristocracy was ethnically different from the general population. There were "White Khazars" and "Black Khazars"..... The "Black Khazars, the general population was a polyethnic and poly religious community comprised of Muslims, Christians and Pagans.. The White Khazars converted to Judaism... The statement may well have been meant as    "All the (White) Khazars are Jews"
That would have been a true statement .

But the DNA seals the deal. Here is a good article that gives both sides. I think you will find it fair but in the end, the proponents of the Khazar theory are not representative of the majority opinion among scientists..

http://forward.com/articles/175912/jews-a-race-genetic-theory-comes-under-fierce-atta/?p=all
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« Reply #461 on: July 25, 2013, 11:06:15 AM »

Why do we waste such bandwidth on the likes of this thread?  sigh?
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TheTrisagion
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« Reply #462 on: July 25, 2013, 11:07:44 AM »

ITT:  We discuss the different historical perspectives of the Khazar people.

Without this information, it is impossible to achieve theosis.
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« Reply #463 on: July 25, 2013, 02:04:24 PM »

ITT:  We discuss the different historical perspectives of the Khazar people.

Without this information, it is impossible to achieve theosis.
lol  Cheesy
Point taken.
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« Reply #464 on: July 25, 2013, 02:09:59 PM »

ITT: 

I approve of your use of "ITT" on this forum, and hope it becomes more popular.
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« Reply #465 on: July 25, 2013, 05:07:49 PM »

It's interesting. Factually, ArBp. Kirill's statement agrees with Br. Nathaniel's.
Quote
NEW YORK: July 19, 2013
Statement from the Chancery of the Synod of Bishops
In other words, it is a statement by the chancery, rather than the full Synod itself. (To give an analogy of position, Kondratick occupied the chancery of the OCA). This could go along with B.Nathaniel's claim that the bishops were unaware of the announcement.

It continues:
Quote
Nathanael (Kapner)... lives on the territory of the Western American Diocese, but has no relation to it.
B. Nathan claims he belongs to ROCOR and lives in the Rockies, but doesn't mention activity in that diocese.

It continues:
Quote
The clergymen and laity of the Russian Church Abroad are hereby informed that the actions of Nathanael (Kapner) do not have the blessing of the Synod of Bishops.
B.Nathan mentions only a blessing by Met. Hilarion and Bp. Jerome, not by the Synod.

Just an interesting point.
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« Reply #466 on: July 25, 2013, 05:20:29 PM »

B. Nathan claims he belongs to ROCOR and lives in the Rockies, but doesn't mention activity in that diocese.

What exactly do you mean here? Is he in the Rockies, or in NY, as his comment about being a regular communicant  in Manhattan would seem to indicate?
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« Reply #467 on: July 25, 2013, 07:06:05 PM »

As I mentioned before, Nathaniel should choose to either follow Abp Kyrril's advice and actually become a monk, retiring from the spotlight to live a life of prayer and repentance under monastic obedience; or, he should stop pretending to be a monk, he should abandon his monastic and hierarchical attire, and he should present himself as the mere lay political commentator that he is.  His claim to be a monk of the Orthodox Church does not lend credibility to his message but rather scandalizes the Orthodox faithful and opens up the holy order of Orthodox monasticism to the world's ridicule.  I say this not as one who disagrees with the factual content that he posts, but as one who objects to him deceiving people regarding his monastic state. 

I think this part of what you post is at the very least worth consideration.

On the other hand, what Brother Nathaniel does may be his calling.  He certainly seems natural at it. 
Ancient Jewish idolaters, kings, and priests thought the same evil of the prophets who boldly preached the truth to the sinful Jewish leaders.
I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
As far as ecclesiology is concerned, my personal belief is that ROCOR's union with the MP was a move from bad to worse, and Archbishop Kyrill helped facilitate this apostasy.
Brother Nathaniel is one of the best things the ROCOR have going for them, and his background in "true orthodox" jurisdictions indicates that he has at least had an interest in pursuing the truth.

The truth is that the ROCOR is lucky to even have Brother Nathaniel.
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« Reply #468 on: July 25, 2013, 09:06:31 PM »

As I mentioned before, Nathaniel should choose to either follow Abp Kyrril's advice and actually become a monk, retiring from the spotlight to live a life of prayer and repentance under monastic obedience; or, he should stop pretending to be a monk, he should abandon his monastic and hierarchical attire, and he should present himself as the mere lay political commentator that he is.  His claim to be a monk of the Orthodox Church does not lend credibility to his message but rather scandalizes the Orthodox faithful and opens up the holy order of Orthodox monasticism to the world's ridicule.  I say this not as one who disagrees with the factual content that he posts, but as one who objects to him deceiving people regarding his monastic state. 

I think this part of what you post is at the very least worth consideration.

On the other hand, what Brother Nathaniel does may be his calling.  He certainly seems natural at it. 
Ancient Jewish idolaters, kings, and priests thought the same evil of the prophets who boldly preached the truth to the sinful Jewish leaders.
I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
As far as ecclesiology is concerned, my personal belief is that ROCOR's union with the MP was a move from bad to worse, and Archbishop Kyrill helped facilitate this apostasy.
Brother Nathaniel is one of the best things the ROCOR have going for them, and his background in "true orthodox" jurisdictions indicates that he has at least had an interest in pursuing the truth.

The truth is that the ROCOR is lucky to even have Brother Nathaniel.

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« Reply #469 on: July 25, 2013, 09:28:10 PM »

I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
As far as ecclesiology is concerned, my personal belief is that ROCOR's union with the MP was a move from bad to worse, and Archbishop Kyrill helped facilitate this apostasy.
Brother Nathaniel is one of the best things the ROCOR have going for them, and his background in "true orthodox" jurisdictions indicates that he has at least had an interest in pursuing the truth.

The truth is that the ROCOR is lucky to even have Brother Nathaniel.

What?  Onomaclasm?  Stavroclasm?  I've never heard of those asms before...
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« Reply #470 on: July 25, 2013, 09:32:46 PM »

I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
As far as ecclesiology is concerned, my personal belief is that ROCOR's union with the MP was a move from bad to worse, and Archbishop Kyrill helped facilitate this apostasy.
Brother Nathaniel is one of the best things the ROCOR have going for them, and his background in "true orthodox" jurisdictions indicates that he has at least had an interest in pursuing the truth.

The truth is that the ROCOR is lucky to even have Brother Nathaniel.

What?  Onomaclasm?  Stavroclasm?  I've never heard of those asms before...
must...resist...inappropriate...orgasm comment.  Lips Sealed
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« Reply #471 on: July 25, 2013, 09:35:15 PM »

I can always depend on you to take it to the next level. 
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« Reply #472 on: July 25, 2013, 09:53:26 PM »

I can always depend on you to take it to the next level. 
I'm pretty sure I lower the intelligent discussion quotient around here by a good 20% all by myself.
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« Reply #473 on: July 25, 2013, 11:13:08 PM »

I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
As far as ecclesiology is concerned, my personal belief is that ROCOR's union with the MP was a move from bad to worse, and Archbishop Kyrill helped facilitate this apostasy.
Brother Nathaniel is one of the best things the ROCOR have going for them, and his background in "true orthodox" jurisdictions indicates that he has at least had an interest in pursuing the truth.

The truth is that the ROCOR is lucky to even have Brother Nathaniel.

What?  Onomaclasm?  Stavroclasm?  I've never heard of those asms before...

Onomaclasm sounds like the opposite to Name-worshipping, the latter is a declared heresy. If Dionysii is saying that ROCOR is against name-worship, then that is true, and it leaves him in a rather sticky situation.
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« Reply #474 on: July 25, 2013, 11:21:56 PM »

Stavroclasm?

Apparently "denying the efficacy of the Cross," or something along those lines.

Quote
"This one-sided interpretation of Redemption became the reigning one in Latin theology and it has remained so up to the present time.  In Protestantism it evoked the opposite reaction, which led in the later sects to the almost complete denial of the dogma of Redemption and to the acknowledgment of no more than a moral or instructive significance for Christ's life and His death on the Cross" [i.e., the heresy of stavroclasm-ed].  (Orthodox Dogmatic Theology, Platina, CA 1983, pp. 208-209.)

http://www.roca.org/OA/132/132b.htm
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« Reply #475 on: July 25, 2013, 11:24:56 PM »

What?  Onomaclasm?  Stavroclasm?  I've never heard of those asms before...

Onomaclasm sounds like the opposite to Name-worshipping, the latter is a declared heresy. If Dionysii is saying that ROCOR is against name-worship, then that is true, and it leaves him in a rather sticky situation.

Chances are it is being used in relation to Name-worshipping, but the very few results that come up in Google include the ancient Jews being referred to as "onomoclasts" for their rejection of pronouncing "YHWH."
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« Reply #476 on: July 25, 2013, 11:50:10 PM »

B. Nathan claims he belongs to ROCOR and lives in the Rockies, but doesn't mention activity in that diocese.

What exactly do you mean here? Is he in the Rockies, or in NY, as his comment about being a regular communicant  in Manhattan would seem to indicate?
What you said.

I think there were instances of holy people who lived in seclusion, and while they took communion as often as practicable, it was not every week. I don't know the answer to your question, or even if it is a correct situation.
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« Reply #477 on: July 26, 2013, 12:29:45 AM »

Are name fighters onomaclasts or onomatomachoi?  The latter sounds better. 

Anyway, people worshiping names is weird.  Real people worship persons: three to be exact.
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« Reply #478 on: July 26, 2013, 12:43:57 AM »

what Brother Nathaniel does may be his calling.  He certainly seems natural at it. 

As I mentioned before, Nathaniel should choose to either follow Abp Kyrril's advice and actually become a monk, retiring from the spotlight to live a life of prayer and repentance under monastic obedience; or, he should stop pretending to be a monk, he should abandon his monastic and hierarchical attire, and he should present himself as the mere lay political commentator that he is.  His claim to be a monk of the Orthodox Church does not lend credibility to his message but rather scandalizes the Orthodox faithful and opens up the holy order of Orthodox monasticism to the world's ridicule.  I say this not as one who disagrees with the factual content that he posts, but as one who objects to him deceiving people regarding his monastic state. 

I think both of these are correct. 
His broadcasts are generally good, but he is not a monk and you are correct to criticize him for wearing monk's clothing.
He was never about money.  I think the underlying motivation of his actions is to draw attention.
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« Reply #479 on: July 26, 2013, 12:54:18 AM »

Onomaclasm sounds like the opposite to Name-worshipping

That is imprecise. 
Name fighting is a heresy opposite to Name glorifying. 
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« Reply #480 on: July 26, 2013, 12:59:46 AM »

Onomaclasm sounds like the opposite to Name-worshipping

That is imprecise. 
Name fighting is a heresy opposite to Name glorifying. 


Before we go any further, please explain what "name fighting" is, and why it is a heresy. Also please elaborate on how this ties in with ROCOR's "ecumenism", as you expressed here:

Quote
I consider ROCOR to have always been heretical from the day it was founded by Archbishop Khrapovitsky who was a heretic on many levels including blatant oecumenism with the Anglicans, Onomaclasm (Name fighting), and Stavroclasm (war against the Cross). 
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« Reply #481 on: July 26, 2013, 01:42:01 AM »

If Dionysii is saying that ROCOR is against name-worship, then that is true, and it leaves him in a rather sticky situation.
I was saying that the Epistle of the Russian Synod of 1913 is heretical since it officially endorses the Name fighting heresy.
Therefore, the (Tsarist) Synod of Russia was heretical from 1913 to the end of the empire - not merely schismatic, but full heresy on the same level as Franks and protestants.  
Furthermore, the All Russian Council of 1917-1918 which consecrated Metropolitan Tikhon as Patriarchate of Moscow also officially endorsed this heretical Epistle as did the Karlovtsy Synod (ROCOR) from its foundation.  I am not aware that either ROCOR or the Moscow Patriarchate ever rescinded their endorsements of the heretical Epistle of 1913.  Therefore, the both the Moscow Patriarchate and ROCOR have been heretical since the days of Metropolitan Antony Khrapovitsky and Patriarch Tikhon.  

For the record, I consider the Russian Synod to have been schismatic and outside of the Church since the seventeenth century.   Saint John of Damascus wrote that able Christians like bees who visit diverse flowers are not forbidden to extract something good from those outside the Church.  Used with discernment, some writings by Nikonians are profitable including the anonymous Russian pilgrim on the Jesus prayer, Monk Ilarion's 'In the Mountains of the Caucasus', and Fr. Antony Boulatovich's expositions of Metropolitan Khrapovitsky's heresies which the Russian synod officially adopted.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The most severe abandonment of Orthodox reasoning I see is in the so-called name-fighting, that is, in that peculiar message, which was articulated in the infamous epistle of the Synod “to all the brothers, struggling in monasticism”, published in May 1913, and the reports attached thereto."
...
"The name-fighting tempest poisoned our theological schools, our hierarchy, our pastors, and, naturally, it is poisoning the whole society of the Church. The fruits of this poisoning are evident to all. There is no need to explore the depths of Russia – right here, in Moscow, in Russia’s heart. Only a blind man, or somebody who has covered his own eyes, will fail to see the corruption that has entered into our Church and is the fruit of long-standing de facto name-fighting, and which was de jure adopted by the Holy and Patriarchal Synods [1913, 1918]. This protestant principle (which, in its essence, I repeat, is man-worshipping)  of religious relativism is being offered to us on an official level, as a norm of spiritual life. That [Synodal] decree provides the basis for the flowering apostasy of our days."


- Bishop Mark Novoselov
http://www.thewonderfulname.info/2013/03/letter-written-in-1918-by-michael.html
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« Reply #482 on: July 26, 2013, 01:46:03 AM »

If Dionysii is saying that ROCOR is against name-worship, then that is true, and it leaves him in a rather sticky situation.
I was saying that the Epistle of the Russian Synod of 1913 is heretical since it officially endorses the Name fighting heresy.

What is the "name fighting heresy"? 
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« Reply #483 on: July 26, 2013, 01:50:54 AM »

I understand Name fighting to be a denial of the power of God.  
It is the heresy of Barlaam and the Frankish scholastics which denies the energy of God is God.

The Name of God is an Energy of God.  The Name of God is God Himself.
This is true since the energy of God is God Himself as Saint Gregory Palamas and others have truly said.

Metropolitan Khrapovitsky was considerably more ignorant of this than Fr. Boulatovich.
I recognize that some individuals in ROCOR do not blindly accept everything that Metropolitan Khrapovitsky wrote, and this is a good thing.
On this issue, many in the OCA (known as the Metropolitan Russian Synod prior to 1970) have historically been closer to the truth about recognizing this heresy than has ROCOR.
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« Reply #484 on: July 26, 2013, 02:04:34 AM »

I understand Name fighting to be a denial of the power of God. 
It is the heresy of Barlaam and the Frankish scholastics which denies the energy of God is God.

The Name of God is an Energy of God.  The Name of God is God Himself.
This is true since the energy of God is God Himself as Saint Gregory Palamas and others have truly said.

Oh.  So you're a heretic.  OK. 

How is the Name of God a divine energy?  Is an icon also a divine energy?  What about the Cross?  The Bible?  Are these things also God?

Idolatry. 

Just a reminder of the rules: please do not call others heretics. You can say that the belief the poster espouses is heresy, but you cannot call the poster directly a heretic, schismatic, or any equivalent of the term. We greatly appreciate your cooperation regarding this rule.

Thank you.

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« Reply #485 on: July 26, 2013, 02:12:48 AM »

I understand Name fighting to be a denial of the power of God. 
It is the heresy of Barlaam and the Frankish scholastics which denies the energy of God is God.

The Name of God is an Energy of God.  The Name of God is God Himself.
This is true since the energy of God is God Himself as Saint Gregory Palamas and others have truly said.

Oh.  So you're a heretic.  OK. 
I'm not one to hang around and cast pearls at swine.  I'm outta here.
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« Reply #486 on: July 26, 2013, 04:23:30 AM »


The Name of God is an Energy of God.  The Name of God is God Himself.



Just as I suspected.  Sad

This, my dear Dionysii, is Name-worshipping (Imiaslavie), which has been condemned as heresy by a council at Constantinople in 1912, presided by the Patriarch of Constantinople, and by the Holy Synod in Moscow in 1918, headed by Patriarch Tikhon.

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« Reply #487 on: July 26, 2013, 05:52:04 AM »

I am able to distinguish quite easily between cultured and natural pearls, but in a spiritual use of the word an authority is helpful.

"In your midst stands a great hierarch, Metropolitan Antony (Khrapovitsky),  who is an adornment of the universal Orthodox Church. He is a great spiritual man like the first hierarchs of the Church of Christ in Christianity's first years. Ecclesiastical truth is to be found in this man....."

Encyclical 9/22nd July, 1930: Patriarch Barnabas of Serbia

May this stand against the throwing out of terms, neither elaborated or supported, condemning this outstanding hierarch. Attempts to stain the name of confessing hierarchs of the Russian Church was a tactic of OGPU and it's successors in their campaign against the Orthodox Church. That it should still happen is sad but only condemns the accusers, surely?
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« Reply #488 on: July 26, 2013, 09:53:55 AM »

It's interesting. Factually, ArBp. Kirill's statement agrees with Br. Nathaniel's.
Quote
NEW YORK: July 19, 2013
Statement from the Chancery of the Synod of Bishops
In other words, it is a statement by the chancery, rather than the full Synod itself. (To give an analogy of position, Kondratick occupied the chancery of the OCA). This could go along with B.Nathaniel's claim that the bishops were unaware of the announcement.

It continues:
Quote
Nathanael (Kapner)... lives on the territory of the Western American Diocese, but has no relation to it.
B. Nathan claims he belongs to ROCOR and lives in the Rockies, but doesn't mention activity in that diocese.

It continues:
Quote
The clergymen and laity of the Russian Church Abroad are hereby informed that the actions of Nathanael (Kapner) do not have the blessing of the Synod of Bishops.
B.Nathan mentions only a blessing by Met. Hilarion and Bp. Jerome, not by the Synod.

Just an interesting point.

I have spoken to both Bp. Jerome and +Met. Hilarion about Br. Nathanael. In no way do they bless his political activities. They commune him and Bp. Jerome told me that Met. Hilarion likes him on a personal basis.. Br. Nathanael is very charming personally.
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« Reply #489 on: July 26, 2013, 10:33:31 AM »

As far as ecclesiology is concerned...

Speaking of ecclesiology, just four months ago you said you were with the Matthewite Greek Old Calendarists under Abp Nicholas of Athens, though as a catechumen.  Now you list your affiliation as being under Metropolitan Cornelius of the Old Believers.  As you probably are aware, Met Cornelius has been criticized for his ecumenical activity and his openness to the MP.  Perhaps you can give an update on the other thread about how you came to join Metropolitan Cornelius, and whether you have in fact joined them: 

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25531.270.html
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« Reply #490 on: July 26, 2013, 10:36:14 AM »

Marc, how is it that you have all these direct connections to Bishops and Metropolitans?  You better watch out or they are going to force you into the episcopacy like they did w/ St. Gregory of Nyssa.
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« Reply #491 on: July 26, 2013, 10:39:09 AM »

Marc, how is it that you have all these direct connections to Bishops and Metropolitans?  You better watch out or they are going to force you into the episcopacy like they did w/ St. Gregory of Nyssa.

You mean St. Gregory of Nazianzus?
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« Reply #492 on: July 26, 2013, 10:42:18 AM »

Marc, how is it that you have all these direct connections to Bishops and Metropolitans?  You better watch out or they are going to force you into the episcopacy like they did w/ St. Gregory of Nyssa.

You mean St. Gregory of Nazianzus?
Perhaps.  Too many Gregories.  Cheesy
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« Reply #493 on: July 26, 2013, 10:44:00 AM »

He may be thinking of St. Gregory the Theologian, who was indeed essentially forced into becoming a bishop. St. Gregory of Nyssa was also pressured into the clergy, though that process was more about Sts. Basil and Gregory Nazianzen trying to guilt him into it, IIRC.
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« Reply #494 on: July 26, 2013, 05:23:55 PM »

What about The Bible?  Are these things also God?
Christ is God's Word, the Logos, incarnated.  I think it means Christ is the Logos in a metaphysical sense- God the Father "Speaking" the Word, or Begetting Christ in also that way.
The Bible is also God's word. Would that make them different "Words"?
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