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Author Topic: Brother Nathaniel  (Read 29669 times) Average Rating: 0
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mike
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« Reply #225 on: May 09, 2013, 12:23:05 PM »

Brother Nathaniel is a monk. 

No, he's not.

You're probably correct, but can you prove it?  I think that if he's proven to not be a monk, it would probably dissuade a lot of folks from giving him their time and attention.

How can one prove something does not happen?
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« Reply #226 on: May 09, 2013, 12:26:22 PM »

Brother Nathaniel is a monk. 

No, he's not.

You're probably correct, but can you prove it?  I think that if he's proven to not be a monk, it would probably dissuade a lot of folks from giving him their time and attention.

How can one prove something does not happen?

 That's my point, Michael.  Again, how do you know that that didn't happen?  I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to know how you know this.
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« Reply #227 on: May 09, 2013, 12:28:24 PM »

That's my point, Michael.  Again, how do you know that that didn't happen?  I'm not disagreeing with you, I just want to know how you know this.

He's not in a monastery. He does not say who his abbot is. He does not look like a monk. He does not behave like a monk.
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« Reply #228 on: May 09, 2013, 12:29:04 PM »

Brother Nathaniel is a monk. 

No, he's not.

You're probably correct, but can you prove it?  I think that if he's proven to not be a monk, it would probably dissuade a lot of folks from giving him their time and attention.

How can one prove something does not happen?

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Probably anyone can call themself a "monk".  Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.
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« Reply #229 on: May 09, 2013, 12:35:58 PM »

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I claim I'm an emperor of Saturn. Kneel in front of me.

Quote
I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Yeah. Ask every ROCOR abbot and bishop. Piece of cake.

Quote
Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.

Every monk has to be affiliated to a monastery or directly to a bishop.

NOVICES ARE NOT MONKS.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 12:36:20 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged

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« Reply #230 on: May 09, 2013, 12:56:18 PM »

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I claim I'm an emperor of Saturn. Kneel in front of me.

Quote
I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Yeah. Ask every ROCOR abbot and bishop. Piece of cake.

Quote
Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.

Every monk has to be affiliated to a monastery or directly to a bishop.

NOVICES ARE NOT MONKS.

How many ROCOR abbots and bishops do you think there are, anyway?  Hundreds?  According to their website, there are 9 ROCOR monasteries in North America, not all of which are men's.  So, it's not like it would be an overwhelming task for someone who cared enough.  In fact, they only list a total of 19 world wide--not all of which are men's.
http://www.synod.com/synod/engrocor/enmonasteries.html

It wouldn't surprise me to find out that someone's already contacted them about him.

Who are you shouting at about novices not being monks, anyway?  I think that's something I've known for quite a few years now.  I was only quoting from the "monk's" website, anyway, in case you hadn't noticed.

I'm relieved to discover that you are the emperor of Saturn rather than the Emperor of Ur-anus. Grin Grin
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« Reply #231 on: May 09, 2013, 01:02:04 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

Well that's how they partially became powerful in their message, because their propaganda was laced in facts.   Anti Zionist facts are backed up.  The difference is that the Nazi's used this information to convince people to eradicate the Jews.

IE -  "Look at the Jews, they own banking cartels, let's go into neighborhoods and get em".

Brother Nathanael is speaking against Zionists specifically.  He desires to convert Jews to Eastern Orthodoxy (as he has expressed).

But I do agree with you he is using some of the information that the Nazi's used, but it is rational & truthful information.  His is a cause NOT to hate a people, but to understand the Zionists (Powerful people that are Jews seeking world domination through government, industry, religion, and banking).
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« Reply #232 on: May 09, 2013, 01:03:09 PM »

One thing we can all agree on, he sure lives in a beautiful part of America.  Gorgeous backgrounds in his videos. 
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« Reply #233 on: May 09, 2013, 01:04:01 PM »

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I claim I'm an emperor of Saturn. Kneel in front of me.

Quote
I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Yeah. Ask every ROCOR abbot and bishop. Piece of cake.

Quote
Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.

Every monk has to be affiliated to a monastery or directly to a bishop.

NOVICES ARE NOT MONKS.

I thought the monastery he is in was affiliated with HOCNA
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« Reply #234 on: May 09, 2013, 01:07:17 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.

He is certainly a bigot. I don't know if he has a racial point of view. What he does do is repeat the main components of Nazi Ideology in terms of Jewish "World Domination", without any deviation just with current day players. He repeats Nazi Ideology. That makes calling him a Nazi pretty accurate. Calling him a Racist may even be less accurate. However, he makes common cause with Racists.

What part of Nazi core ideology does he profess?  I looked at his website and saw nothing about third way economic systems.  Is he just anti-Bolshevist?  Does he believe that the Saarland should be reoccupied?  What about Danzig and Memel?  Is he opposed to the Versailles Treaty? 
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« Reply #235 on: May 09, 2013, 01:07:59 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.

He is certainly a bigot. I don't know if he has a racial point of view. What he does do is repeat the main components of Nazi Ideology in terms of Jewish "World Domination", without any deviation just with current day players. He repeats Nazi Ideology. That makes calling him a Nazi pretty accurate. Calling him a Racist may even be less accurate. However, he makes common cause with Racists.

Was Winston Churchill a Nazi?:

http://library.flawlesslogic.com/ish.htm

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« Reply #236 on: May 09, 2013, 01:20:27 PM »

Sorry, this thread has for me all the charm of a Punch and Judy show.
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« Reply #237 on: May 09, 2013, 01:22:52 PM »

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I claim I'm an emperor of Saturn. Kneel in front of me.

Quote
I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Yeah. Ask every ROCOR abbot and bishop. Piece of cake.

Quote
Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.

Every monk has to be affiliated to a monastery or directly to a bishop.

NOVICES ARE NOT MONKS.

I thought the monastery he is in was affiliated with HOCNA

Maybe before he was affiliated with ROCOR??  I don't know.  And I don't really care  Wink.  The man comes across as an attention-seeking, bigoted nut-job.  But, then again, he just might be a holy fool for Christ.   Grin
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« Reply #238 on: May 09, 2013, 01:25:02 PM »

Sorry, this thread has for me all the charm of a Punch and Judy show.

Well, at least you didn't have to pay for a ticket Wink.

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« Reply #239 on: May 09, 2013, 01:40:59 PM »

He claims to be affiliated with ROCOR:
Quote
Brother Nathanael Kapner is a recognized monastic with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Of Russia (ROCOR) where he is officially recognized as a "poslushnik"/"novice" monk.
http://brothernathanaelfoundation.org/about

I claim I'm an emperor of Saturn. Kneel in front of me.

Quote
I'm thinking that if someone is interested enough it shouldn't be too difficult to confirm that--or that he's not.

Yeah. Ask every ROCOR abbot and bishop. Piece of cake.

Quote
Official affiliation with a monastery is another matter, though.

Every monk has to be affiliated to a monastery or directly to a bishop.

NOVICES ARE NOT MONKS.

I thought the monastery he is in was affiliated with HOCNA

Maybe before he was affiliated with ROCOR??  I don't know.  And I don't really care  Wink.  The man comes across as an attention-seeking, bigoted nut-job.  But, then again, he just might be a holy fool for Christ.   Grin

Nathaniel started out at HTM (which has been in HOCNA now for a while) and then was with Abp Gregory of Colorado in Dormition Skete.  He was a novice in both monasteries.  He then left the "true" Orthodox Church that was Abp Gregory's own creation and he was received back into ROCOR.  Since he does not now belong to a monastery, it is true that he should not be considered a monk or a novice.  Personally, his posing as a monk, his attire, and his strange "missionary" labors are the most off-putting to me and the most damaging to his credibility.  He has a good understanding of Zionism and the influence of Jewish movements in America and in the world, but the role he plays in this area clashes with the image he promotes of himself as an Orthodox monk.  I think it would be better for him to choose to either:

1) Join an actual monastery and become a monk, leaving behind involvement in exposing the politics of this world, including the exposure of Jewish movements that are harmful to our country and world.

2) Keep the videos and article going, but dress appropriately as a layman and without the goofy "street evangelism"

I think his labors would be more effective if he were to choose.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 01:42:09 PM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #240 on: May 09, 2013, 02:00:56 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.

He is certainly a bigot. I don't know if he has a racial point of view. What he does do is repeat the main components of Nazi Ideology in terms of the Jewish Question, without any deviation just with current day players. He repeats Nazi Ideology. That makes calling him a Nazi pretty accurate. Calling him a Racist may even be less accurate. However, he makes common cause with Racists.

Does he support nationalization of the industries?  Does he preach war in the name of patriotism and spreading the borders of his nation for expansion?

Those are just as strong platforms of the Nazi ethos as anti-Semitism.  

He certainly does not advocate actions that were specific to Germnay after World War One. America doesnt need more "Living Space", as in Germany in 1931. He does have the same sort of philosophy. In American that philosophy leads to fear of takeover, fear of immigrants fear of Jewish control over the banks and media and Hollywood. Same ideology, different time and country.

FYI Hitler was actually bank rolled by the German Industrialists.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 02:04:04 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
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« Reply #241 on: May 09, 2013, 02:50:11 PM »


... fear of Jewish control over the banks and media and Hollywood.
 

 I don't know that 'taken over' is the right expression but Jews certainly are the majority in Hollywood.  Even Ellen DeGeneres acknowledges it.

Fast forward to 1:40
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY06m4tro2E
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« Reply #242 on: May 09, 2013, 03:03:02 PM »


... fear of Jewish control over the banks and media and Hollywood.
 

 I don't know that 'taken over' is the right expression but Jews certainly are the majority in Hollywood.  Even Ellen DeGeneres acknowledges it.

Fast forward to 1:40
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY06m4tro2E

It isn't about fear, but fact.  Like B. Nathaniel or not, he names names and does research.  Whether or not someone likes him, they can look into his claims and determine their veracity.

Some Jew are quite proud of their control of Hollywood and the media, and aren't afraid to flaunt it.  Read this article in the LA Times, for instance:

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-44081319/

Quote
As a proud Jew, I want America to know about our accomplishment. Yes, we control Hollywood. Without us, you'd be flipping between "The 700 Club" and "Davey and Goliath" on TV all day.

So I've taken it upon myself to re-convince America that Jews run Hollywood by launching a public relations campaign, because that's what we do best. I'm weighing several slogans, including: "Hollywood: More Jewish than ever!"; "Hollywood: From the people who brought you the Bible"; and "Hollywood: If you enjoy TV and movies, then you probably like Jews after all."
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 03:03:46 PM by jah777 » Logged
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« Reply #243 on: May 09, 2013, 03:04:55 PM »

Theories like his are quite common place in many monastic or otherwise church settings. Although in Romania from what I've seen they are easy to come across with although not in normal regular parishes but in more marginal settings. But definitely enough monasteries carry anti-zionist/jewish conspiracy theory literature  . And I understand the phenomenon is quite common in all countries of the former communist bloc or even in Greece.
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« Reply #244 on: May 09, 2013, 03:51:27 PM »

Br. Nathanael has theories, I have theories, Augustin has theories, Marc has theories. Every person on OC.net has theories.

Br. Nathanael's presentations differ in that they are undergirded with an unusually substantial amount of factual documentation.

Not that I agree with him on everything, but he is definitely aware of a lot of things that many people are unaware of.

He is under the spiritual guidance of a canonical Orthodox monastery. Which one it is, our ROCOR bishops will not say. But they do say that it is canonical. At the same time, he communes in the ROCOR. He is pan-Orthodox in that respect.

My take: I don't have time to comb through his stuff to find skeletons. So far, the worst anyone can pin on him is having an aversion to Zionism, occult insignia, and the musty smell of his former synagogue. If that's all he's got for skeletons, he must be clean as a whistle...
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« Reply #245 on: May 09, 2013, 03:58:05 PM »

He is under the spiritual guidance of a canonical Orthodox monastery. Which one it is, our ROCOR bishops will not say. But they do say that it is canonical.

That is funny. Nice joke!
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« Reply #246 on: May 09, 2013, 04:02:20 PM »

No joke, I have it straight from one of our ROCOR bishops. Michal, are you claiming that the bishop is lying?
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« Reply #247 on: May 09, 2013, 04:28:51 PM »

No joke, I have it straight from one of our ROCOR bishops. Michal, are you claiming that the bishop is lying?

After thinking about it seems quite likely. No surprise no one wants to get associated with him.
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« Reply #248 on: May 09, 2013, 04:50:03 PM »

Michal, let's examine your theory. Let's examine it from the point of view of which theories are more plausible and which are less plausible.

Here is a very controversial figure, Br. Nathanael. You are a bishop of the ROCOR. Someone asks you, in outrage, about this controversial figure. 

Here are the things you can do when confronted with outraged questions about the controversial figure.

1. Say you just don't know much at all about that topic.
2. Say the person must be a part of someone else's jurisdiction.
3. Say the person is in your jurisdiction, but cannot speak for the church.
4. Create, on the spot, an elaborate hoax, with multiple players and parties, saying that the controversial person is a communicant of your jurisdiction but is under guidance from the head of a monastery of another jurisdiction, with which your own jurisdiction is in full communion.

Which of these scenarios is the most plausible? I would put 4. as clearly the least plausible.

Occam's razor.

Yet your theory appears to be number 4.
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« Reply #249 on: May 09, 2013, 04:58:51 PM »



Yet your theory appears to be number 4.

Hard to say.  Afterall, he is the self-designated OC.Net trickster.
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« Reply #250 on: May 09, 2013, 05:06:52 PM »

So what is the point in hiding what his monastery is?
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« Reply #251 on: May 09, 2013, 05:58:23 PM »

So what is the point in hiding what his monastery is?

A few additional questions:

Why is the "novice outside the monastery thing" allowed and what is the point in it?
What is the canonical basis of the "novice outside the monastery" thing?
Why is he allowed to mock monastic garment with wearing stuff he is not allowed to (ryasa, white klobuk, pectoral cross)?
Why is he allowed to keep being an internet phenomena, and not make to do traditional novice duties (you know, the ones with rakes, hoes, brooms etc.)?
Why is he allowed to ridicule ROCOR?

(assuming he indeed is a "secret novice")
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« Reply #252 on: May 09, 2013, 08:47:37 PM »

So what is the point in hiding what his monastery is?

A few additional questions:

Why is the "novice outside the monastery thing" allowed and what is the point in it?
What is the canonical basis of the "novice outside the monastery" thing?
Why is he allowed to mock monastic garment with wearing stuff he is not allowed to (ryasa, white klobuk, pectoral cross)?
Why is he allowed to keep being an internet phenomena, and not make to do traditional novice duties (you know, the ones with rakes, hoes, brooms etc.)?
Why is he allowed to ridicule ROCOR?

(assuming he indeed is a "secret novice")


1.  Ask his Bishop.  No, don't ask people on the Internet, but call the head of ROCOR and ask him.  If you can't find the number, I can get it for you.  I have spoken with Bp. Hilarion and he is a nice, personable Bishop.  If he does not know, he will certainly tell you who does.
2.  What authority do you have to say that he is wearing what he is not allowed?  I wear a ryasa, and have the blessing of two priests via their Bishops in two different jurisdictions to do so.  One of the priest's wives made it for me.  Do you object? Too bad. Next time I see them I will let them know that Mikey objects.
3.  Since when do YOU decide what a novice is to do?  Are you his Bishop?  Heck, you are not even in his Country, let alone his diocese.  How do you know his Bishop has not blessed him to do what he is doing.  Hey, the US is not Poland.  You guys stand around in Church and ignore each other and we act like fools.  Each to his own.
4. I don't think that he at all ridicules ROCOR.  My priest loves him, as do many other priests.  And why would you care anyway?  Are you thinking of joining ROCOR?

The guy has a following.  One of his videos has close to 100,000 hits.  Are you jealous?
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« Reply #253 on: May 09, 2013, 08:55:09 PM »

What authority do you have to say that he is wearing what he is not allowed?

Even if he is a novitiate, he is not tonsured yet. Riasophore, stavrophore - ring a bell? Not to mention metropolitan's klobuk.
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« Reply #254 on: May 09, 2013, 09:59:27 PM »

What authority do you have to say that he is wearing what he is not allowed?

Even if he is a novitiate, he is not tonsured yet. Riasophore, stavrophore - ring a bell? Not to mention metropolitan's klobuk.

Again, who made you his Bishop?  I happen to know the ranks of the monks quite well.  My Godfather is one (an Igumen).  I was blessed to wear the riasa before I was tonsured as a Reader.  In fact, I was required to wear one while performing my duties behind the altar, as were all the men who served in the same capacity as I did.  Later, I was allowed to wear it in the Serbian Church when performing my duties by virtue of my blessing to wear it previously.  Other men were not allowed to wear it as it was not the Serbian tradition to do so.  It is up to the Bishop as to how we are to dress, not you.  Again, do you know that his Bishop has NOT blessed him to wear what he wears?  No, you do not.  Nor do you or anyone else on this forum know all of the exceptions to the "rules" that are out there.  Here in the United States, we are lucky if the Canons are followed, let alone any particular dress code.  I know that the ROCOR is pretty good at kicking people out who do not do what they are told.  I have run ac cross many such men in my time.  If Br. Nathaniel is ROCOR (and I believe he is in spite of some people's claimed "knowledge" to the contrary), he has been blessed to do what he does.   
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« Reply #255 on: May 10, 2013, 12:02:19 AM »

What authority do you have to say that he is wearing what he is not allowed?

Even if he is a novitiate, he is not tonsured yet. Riasophore, stavrophore - ring a bell? Not to mention metropolitan's klobuk.

Again, who made you his Bishop?  I happen to know the ranks of the monks quite well.  My Godfather is one (an Igumen).  I was blessed to wear the riasa before I was tonsured as a Reader.  In fact, I was required to wear one while performing my duties behind the altar, as were all the men who served in the same capacity as I did.  Later, I was allowed to wear it in the Serbian Church when performing my duties by virtue of my blessing to wear it previously.  Other men were not allowed to wear it as it was not the Serbian tradition to do so.  It is up to the Bishop as to how we are to dress, not you.  Again, do you know that his Bishop has NOT blessed him to wear what he wears?  No, you do not.  Nor do you or anyone else on this forum know all of the exceptions to the "rules" that are out there.  Here in the United States, we are lucky if the Canons are followed, let alone any particular dress code.  I know that the ROCOR is pretty good at kicking people out who do not do what they are told.  I have run ac cross many such men in my time.  If Br. Nathaniel is ROCOR (and I believe he is in spite of some people's claimed "knowledge" to the contrary), he has been blessed to do what he does.   
Does anyone know who his bishop is?
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« Reply #256 on: May 10, 2013, 01:13:16 AM »

Nathaniel is very weird.

is he a fool for christ? i dont think so...

all he seems to talk about is jews jews jews!


I need to find that video of him where he is dancing in the streets though... he is a really funky dancer
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« Reply #257 on: May 10, 2013, 01:16:47 AM »

found one of the videos of his dancing!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ykeGTKLaYA
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« Reply #258 on: May 10, 2013, 01:25:52 AM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...
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« Reply #259 on: May 10, 2013, 10:44:32 AM »


... fear of Jewish control over the banks and media and Hollywood.
 

 I don't know that 'taken over' is the right expression but Jews certainly are the majority in Hollywood.  Even Ellen DeGeneres acknowledges it.

Fast forward to 1:40
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY06m4tro2E

Maybe, I really dont know but it is a big leap to then conclude there is an organized conspiracy with a set agenda....big leap.

Are the Movies made by Gentile directors and producers discernibly different? Are the films made Robert Redford different in any way? There is no  pattenr from what I can see. Nathanael implies there is a conspiracy based on the large number of successful Jews in Hollywood..Balderdash



 

   
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« Reply #260 on: May 10, 2013, 10:46:39 AM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...

Hitler was said to be very charming. Good listener.. Veterinarian... Artist
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« Reply #261 on: May 10, 2013, 11:58:42 AM »

Is he associated with a canonical Church? If so, which one?

PP
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« Reply #262 on: May 10, 2013, 12:09:53 PM »

Occam's razor.

I think more men know how to shave with a straight razor than to how use Occam's razor appropriately.

Given your profile pics and the above post, I would say you likely cannot do the former and certainly have trouble with the latter.
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« Reply #263 on: May 10, 2013, 12:24:35 PM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...

Hitler was said to be very charming. Good listener.. Veterinarian... Artist

He was certainly not the best artist! But I always find hitler interesting as well. I do not really like either of them really, but still I find them interesting and I enjoy at times to learn more about them. is this why I watched like 5 hours of some tv show about hitlers bodyguards/trains/cars? ... perhaps I am a neo-nazi!  Cry

a new question!

If Novice Nathaniel was made Kaiser of Germany instead of hitler, what would have happened!? hmm I dont know but I hope he would still be dancing int he streets

EDIT:

oops sorry not kaiser, i meant fuhrer...
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« Reply #264 on: May 10, 2013, 01:14:40 PM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...

Hitler was said to be very charming. Good listener.. Veterinarian... Artist

I was present when a Jewish lady spoke of the time she was a child and walking along a road near the Kehlsteinhaus or Eagles Nest with her mother. They were nearly run down by the Fuhrer's car. It stopped and the Fuhrer got out and was effusive in his concern for a shaken and frightened mother and child.

Certainly Herr Hitler could be charming, was particular about his diet and loved dogs. But like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot he was a truly frightening and murderous monster. Brother Nathaniel cannot be likened to any of them. As to his narrative about his Jewish teacher's singular disdain for Christianity, this rings bells and in writing this I do so having spent much time in contact with Jews, religious and secular, over decades. Anti-Christian sentiments have been expressed in graffiti on Church and Monastery buildings in Israel and elsewhere. I have the opposite response to from very conservative religious Jews.

Some seen to criticise Brother Nathaniel on little more than he's committed the unforgivable sin of raising concerns about the exercise of power and influence by individuals and groups he names. He certainly appears to have done some serious research. Whether he interprets that same research in a balanced and credible way may be another thing.

What all these revoluntaries had in common was a commitment to killing at least 10 per cent of their populations and identifying scapegoats, supposed enemies of the struggle and the expendable in the population in order to build the new society. This is as true of the horrendous French Revolution through the various 20th Century movements. However Marxists have a new strategy, the destruction of culture, institutions, values and morality. In my opinion Brother Nathaniel needs the oxygen of publicity like a hole in head. There are far bigger issues in the world.
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« Reply #265 on: May 10, 2013, 01:23:42 PM »

I agree with the above posters comment that there are far bigger issues out there than this dancing fellow. Outside of part of the internet world, I doubt his existence is known to most Orthodox. As far as YouTube views, my youtube clips are nearing 300,000 views - so what...it is a meaningless number.
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« Reply #266 on: May 10, 2013, 01:27:30 PM »

I agree with the above posters comment that there are far bigger issues out there than this dancing fellow. Outside of part of the internet world, I doubt his existence is known to most Orthodox. As far as YouTube views, my youtube clips are nearing 300,000 views - so what...it is a meaningless number.

link link link i want to dislike all your videos! Wink WITH AD BLOCK ON!
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« Reply #267 on: May 10, 2013, 01:31:56 PM »

Is he associated with a canonical Church? If so, which one?

PP

Let me take this chance to correct myself from before the thread was locked.

He is in Rocor and can and does take communion. I checked with Bishop Jerome.
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« Reply #268 on: May 10, 2013, 01:34:38 PM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...

Hitler was said to be very charming. Good listener.. Veterinarian... Artist

I was present when a Jewish lady spoke of the time she was a child and walking along a road near the Kehlsteinhaus or Eagles Nest with her mother. They were nearly run down by the Fuhrer's car. It stopped and the Fuhrer got out and was effusive in his concern for a shaken and frightened mother and child.

Certainly Herr Hitler could be charming, was particular about his diet and loved dogs. But like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot he was a truly frightening and murderous monster. Brother Nathaniel cannot be likened to any of them. As to his narrative about his Jewish teacher's singular disdain for Christianity, this rings bells and in writing this I do so having spent much time in contact with Jews, religious and secular, over decades. Anti-Christian sentiments have been expressed in graffiti on Church and Monastery buildings in Israel and elsewhere. I have the opposite response to from very conservative religious Jews.

Some seen to criticise Brother Nathaniel on little more than he's committed the unforgivable sin of raising concerns about the exercise of power and influence by individuals and groups he names. He certainly appears to have done some serious research. Whether he interprets that same research in a balanced and credible way may be another thing.

What all these revoluntaries had in common was a commitment to killing at least 10 per cent of their populations and identifying scapegoats, supposed enemies of the struggle and the expendable in the population in order to build the new society. This is as true of the horrendous French Revolution through the various 20th Century movements. However Marxists have a new strategy, the destruction of culture, institutions, values and morality. In my opinion Brother Nathaniel needs the oxygen of publicity like a hole in head. There are far bigger issues in the world.

LOL I made a spelling goof again. He was not a Veterinarian.. He was a Vegetarian. He loved animals.

Nice guy from all accounts.. Maybe a littel crazy
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« Reply #269 on: May 10, 2013, 01:39:17 PM »

this video he made he explains how he got into the orthodox church

his first attendence was at a russian orthodox "Holy Trinity Orthodox Cathedral" in Boston

I would assume this was already posted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hjf4AUeBRc

I changed my mind, he seems pretty nice. a little crazy, but nice... i think...

Hitler was said to be very charming. Good listener.. Veterinarian... Artist

I was present when a Jewish lady spoke of the time she was a child and walking along a road near the Kehlsteinhaus or Eagles Nest with her mother. They were nearly run down by the Fuhrer's car. It stopped and the Fuhrer got out and was effusive in his concern for a shaken and frightened mother and child.

Certainly Herr Hitler could be charming, was particular about his diet and loved dogs. But like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot he was a truly frightening and murderous monster. Brother Nathaniel cannot be likened to any of them. As to his narrative about his Jewish teacher's singular disdain for Christianity, this rings bells and in writing this I do so having spent much time in contact with Jews, religious and secular, over decades. Anti-Christian sentiments have been expressed in graffiti on Church and Monastery buildings in Israel and elsewhere. I have the opposite response to from very conservative religious Jews.

Some seen to criticise Brother Nathaniel on little more than he's committed the unforgivable sin of raising concerns about the exercise of power and influence by individuals and groups he names. He certainly appears to have done some serious research. Whether he interprets that same research in a balanced and credible way may be another thing.

What all these revoluntaries had in common was a commitment to killing at least 10 per cent of their populations and identifying scapegoats, supposed enemies of the struggle and the expendable in the population in order to build the new society. This is as true of the horrendous French Revolution through the various 20th Century movements. However Marxists have a new strategy, the destruction of culture, institutions, values and morality. In my opinion Brother Nathaniel needs the oxygen of publicity like a hole in head. There are far bigger issues in the world.

The "Secret World Wide Jewish Conspiracy" that wields so much power is an old canard. It was Hitler's core message and it's Nathaneal's too.

Fascist Ideology of this nature is probably the most debunked in history.. If you think it makes sense or that Nathanael is dong good work, then that's a real shame.
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