OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 21, 2014, 12:10:54 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Brother Nathaniel  (Read 25401 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 9,945


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #180 on: May 08, 2013, 04:02:00 PM »

So let me understand. Br. Nathanael is accused of anti-Semitism (let us grant that one could take the part for the whole, i.e., call him anti-Jew even if he is not anti-Arab, both Jews and Arabs being Semites), on the basis of a statement that he was freaked out as a child to see many occult symbols prominently displayed at a Jewish center, together with some bad smell of death (as he perceived it). Perceiving Judaism to be a religion of death, this man turned to the true religion of Life, the Christian Faith.

So would there be the same outrage, if he had substituted Islam for Judaism? If he said, "I went into the mosque, and I saw occult symbol after occult symbol prominently displayed, and there was a strange pall of death and a musty smell which made me think Islam is a religion of death. So I turned to Jesus Christ and I embraced faith in Him." Would we, in equal measure, call him an anti-Semite for saying THAT?

And, on the basis of such a statement about a MOSQUE, would people be calling him hateful, or dangerous, or criminal, or despicable? This is an important question!

Some might.  Especially in the overly-p.c., Islamo-sensitive world we live in these days.

Personally, I would have to take the body of their statements and the consistency (or lack of it) of any anti-whoever behavior into consideration before making such judgments.  One isolated statement is not necessarily enough to label anyone anti-semite or anti-islamic or anti-whatever.

Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 6,834


"My god is greater."


« Reply #181 on: May 08, 2013, 04:03:34 PM »


Brother Nathanael is a vicious Anti-Semite ...


Nah.  He's got some weird hang-up with Jews, but I haven't heard him say anything about any of the other Semitic peoples.  And unless he's castigation all of them, he cannot be labeled as being an anti-Semite. 

You obviously do not understand or just choose to ignore the meaning of the most common current usage of the term "anti-Semite". 

He wants to seem cunning and witty (but fails).

Lost causes seem to be his thing (hence his nostalgia for white supremacy).
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Quote from: Byron
Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #182 on: May 08, 2013, 04:08:05 PM »

No, not much better, quite inaccurate because his beef is not with your run-of-the-mill Jew, but certain ultra-wealthy Jews who harm others. However, as I've noted, he consistently fails to distinguish verbally between these two very different groups of people, one group making no great harm or suffering in the world, the other causing great harm to people, as well as suffering, ethnic cleansing, death, and destruction.

And I'm still amazed that people have no problem (apparently) with those who perpetrate such horrific crimes against humanity, but a little guy who looks goofy and denounces such awful criminals, is pounced upon and becomes a lightning rod for the vitriol of the otherwise complacent. It's eerie. It's Orwellian. Who hath bewitched you, O Galatians? Orthodox Christians?

 People care about what is true, not ultra complicated conspiratorial theories which by in large are meant to manipulate politically naive people.
Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 4,456



« Reply #183 on: May 08, 2013, 04:09:39 PM »

But Father, have you not read the Scriptures that in the last days what is evil will be called good, and what is good will become evil?  It seems that lately the bewitching has gotten really bad.  From the posting that I have read in the last few months, I am convinced that if the Antichrist decided to stop suddenly, half of the OC.Net would have to be surgically removed from his bum.

No, not much better, quite inaccurate because his beef is not with your run-of-the-mill Jew, but certain ultra-wealthy Jews who harm others. However, as I've noted, he consistently fails to distinguish verbally between these two very different groups of people, one group making no great harm or suffering in the world, the other causing great harm to people, as well as suffering, ethnic cleansing, death, and destruction.

And I'm still amazed that people have no problem (apparently) with those who perpetrate such horrific crimes against humanity, but a little guy who looks goofy and denounces such awful criminals, is pounced upon and becomes a lightning rod for the vitriol of the otherwise complacent. It's eerie. It's Orwellian. Who hath bewitched you, O Galatians? Orthodox Christians?
Logged

God did not create man equal.  Samuel Colt made man equal.  Blessed be the Peacemaker.
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 4,456



« Reply #184 on: May 08, 2013, 04:11:48 PM »

Very few people actually care about the truth, and the average liberal would not recognize truth if it hit them in the face.

No, not much better, quite inaccurate because his beef is not with your run-of-the-mill Jew, but certain ultra-wealthy Jews who harm others. However, as I've noted, he consistently fails to distinguish verbally between these two very different groups of people, one group making no great harm or suffering in the world, the other causing great harm to people, as well as suffering, ethnic cleansing, death, and destruction.

And I'm still amazed that people have no problem (apparently) with those who perpetrate such horrific crimes against humanity, but a little guy who looks goofy and denounces such awful criminals, is pounced upon and becomes a lightning rod for the vitriol of the otherwise complacent. It's eerie. It's Orwellian. Who hath bewitched you, O Galatians? Orthodox Christians?

 People care about what is true, not ultra complicated conspiratorial theories which by in large are meant to manipulate politically naive people.
Logged

God did not create man equal.  Samuel Colt made man equal.  Blessed be the Peacemaker.
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #185 on: May 08, 2013, 04:13:19 PM »

I am convinced that if the Antichrist decided to stop suddenly, half of the OC.Net would have to be surgically removed from his bum.

Do you want not to share this pleasure with anyone?
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 4,456



« Reply #186 on: May 08, 2013, 04:15:33 PM »

I am convinced that if the Antichrist decided to stop suddenly, half of the OC.Net would have to be surgically removed from his bum.

Do you want not to share this pleasure with anyone?

Sorry, there won't be any room for me.  On the other hand, you won't need a surgeon to be removed.  A dentist will be able to do it quite easily.
Logged

God did not create man equal.  Samuel Colt made man equal.  Blessed be the Peacemaker.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 9,945


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2013, 04:17:17 PM »

I wonder if Carl shouldn't be having second thoughts about unlocking this thread.
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
Santagranddad
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCA
Posts: 986



« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2013, 04:22:19 PM »

So let me understand. Br. Nathanael is accused of anti-Semitism (let us grant that one could take the part for the whole, i.e., call him anti-Jew even if he is not anti-Arab, both Jews and Arabs being Semites), on the basis of a statement that he was freaked out as a child to see many occult symbols prominently displayed at a Jewish center, together with some bad smell of death (as he perceived it). Perceiving Judaism to be a religion of death, this man turned to the true religion of Life, the Christian Faith.

So would there be the same outrage, if he had substituted Islam for Judaism? If he said, "I went into the mosque, and I saw occult symbol after occult symbol prominently displayed, and there was a strange pall of death and a musty smell which made me think Islam is a religion of death. So I turned to Jesus Christ and I embraced faith in Him." Would we, in equal measure, call him an anti-Semite for saying THAT?

And, on the basis of such a statement about a MOSQUE, would people be calling him hateful, or dangerous, or criminal, or despicable? This is an important question!

Whether or not he saw occult symbolism as a child or was simply dropped on his head, he presents a bigoted and inaccurate World View. You only need to view his last couple of You Tubes about the Boston Bombing to see that this guy is pretty crazy. I personally think he is possesed by a demon as I have said before.. He needs pity and prayers not encouragement IMHO

Never the less, if you can honestly look at his stuff and think he has some really good idea's or if you agree with his analyses of events then I would say there is something quite a miss about your understanding of the World and how it works.

Sometimes people who are deeply Antisemitic are called Nazi's.. It's just short hand and easy to understand. It does not mean the person is actually a Nazi Party Member, though we have had one or two who were members on these boards in the past.

The labelling of individuals as Nazi, Fascist, racist, anti-Semite etc., is all too often a tactic of the Left and avoids having to argue with holders of views sharply divergent from theirs. It is an Orwellian tactic that appears to have little to commend it. In my view Brother Nathaniel's preoccupations appear either indicative of an unhealthy preoccupation or possibly a spiritual problem. Neither merits him being labelled but perhaps given less of an audience but rather some appropriate support.
Logged
Fr.Aidan
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 498


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2013, 04:29:35 PM »

Christ is risen!

Also, the idea that we can label someone a "Nazi" if he disagrees with the Jewish faith dogmatically, or if he sharply denounces a small group of criminals who are culturally Jewish, because it's "just shorthand," is 100% unacceptable.

Weird example, and I mean to start no flame war by it, but it's like saying that if there is a Greek Archdiocese parish that uses an organ, it is therefore okay to call them "Protestants," since it's "just a shorthand" and "everyone understands what is meant."

No. It is not okay. They are Orthodox Christians who happen to use an organ.

See?
Logged
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,155


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2013, 04:33:28 PM »


Brother Nathanael is a vicious Anti-Semite ...


Nah.  He's got some weird hang-up with Jews, but I haven't heard him say anything about any of the other Semitic peoples.  And unless he's castigation all of them, he cannot be labeled as being an anti-Semite. 
You obviously do not understand or just choose to ignore the meaning of the most common current usage of the term "anti-Semite". 
You know, this is actually fairly tame by the standards of weird semantic games people play here.
Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #191 on: May 08, 2013, 04:33:54 PM »

I wonder if Carl shouldn't be having second thoughts about unlocking this thread.

Not really. This just shows that we have all kinds of folks in the Holy Orthodox Church. This is actually a very good thing; if every member of my spiritual family was of the same mind as I and behaved in most agreeable ways, I would not grow as much spiritually as if that was not the case--as I am experiencing on OC.Net and this forum from time to time. I do not think that the Lord will give us more than we can handle, although at one point, when I was weak, I felt it best for my spiritual health to temporarily halt troublesome discussions.

That said, I will say that Brother Nathanael is not somebody that I admire. I join Marc in thinking that this man masquerading as a monk is an anti-semite and Marc and I are politically as opposed as can be. One good thing in this is that I have another person that I have to pray for.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:34:35 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #192 on: May 08, 2013, 04:34:23 PM »


Brother Nathanael is a vicious Anti-Semite ...


Nah.  He's got some weird hang-up with Jews, but I haven't heard him say anything about any of the other Semitic peoples.  And unless he's castigation all of them, he cannot be labeled as being an anti-Semite. 

You obviously do not understand or just choose to ignore the meaning of the most common current usage of the term "anti-Semite". 

He wants to seem cunning and witty (but fails).

Lost causes seem to be his thing (hence his nostalgia for white supremacy).

 Care to back that up?  I have friends of all colors.  I venerate the hand of Fr. Moses Berry, an African-American priest in a neighboring town.  Aaaaaand my wife is a Korean-American.  I realize that the forums' aversion to ad hominems is losing its luster 'round here, but this goes too far.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,171



« Reply #193 on: May 08, 2013, 04:38:49 PM »

It is true that this is a free-for-all forum where polemics can indeed get very heated. OTOH, I am getting that nagging feeling that I must start using some rules to get things cooled down a bit. Please don't make my job easier.
Logged

Michal: "SC, love you in this thread."
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 6,834


"My god is greater."


« Reply #194 on: May 08, 2013, 04:43:07 PM »


Brother Nathanael is a vicious Anti-Semite ...


Nah.  He's got some weird hang-up with Jews, but I haven't heard him say anything about any of the other Semitic peoples.  And unless he's castigation all of them, he cannot be labeled as being an anti-Semite.  

You obviously do not understand or just choose to ignore the meaning of the most common current usage of the term "anti-Semite".  

He wants to seem cunning and witty (but fails).

Lost causes seem to be his thing (hence his nostalgia for white supremacy).

 Care to back that up?  I have friends of all colors.  I venerate the hand of Fr. Moses Berry, an African-American priest in a neighboring town.  Aaaaaand my wife is a Korean-American.  I realize that the forums' aversion to ad hominems is losing its luster 'round here, but this goes too far.

Ah, the good old "but I have a black friend" defense... I was wondering how soon it would pop up.

Maybe it's true that you do not behave as a white supremacist in your day to day life. That's good.

But...

Fact 1: The CSA was a white supremacist government, and white supremacy was a cornerstone of its founding, as Confederate VP Alexander Stephens made very plain.

Fact 2: You are nostalgic for the CSA and are therefore nostalgic for white supremacy.

There is nothing hyperbolic or sensationalist or even "ad hominem" in the above two statements.

And even if you kid yourself that the CSA was really just about states' rights, resisting overbearing federal government, blah blah, your callous overlooking of the monstrous horror of the enslavement of Africans, as just some superficial flaw on an otherwise admirable society, is reprehensible and inhuman.

Informal warning: Please stay on topic. Thanks, Carl Kraeff
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:50:32 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Quote from: Byron
Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #195 on: May 08, 2013, 04:45:03 PM »


I am all for precision in language, but the whole anti-Semite thing is just creative distraction.  

To you, perhaps.  But what you call 'distraction' might be what Arab Christians who are caught in the middle of the Islamo-Zionist war would call 'education.'  Back in my Muslim days, the Arabs always complained about the word 'Semite' and 'Semitic' as being manipulated.  Seeing that they too are Semitic, who the heck am I to argue with them?  Who are any of us to argue with them?
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #196 on: May 08, 2013, 04:48:20 PM »


Brother Nathanael is a vicious Anti-Semite ...


Nah.  He's got some weird hang-up with Jews, but I haven't heard him say anything about any of the other Semitic peoples.  And unless he's castigation all of them, he cannot be labeled as being an anti-Semite.  

You obviously do not understand or just choose to ignore the meaning of the most common current usage of the term "anti-Semite".  

He wants to seem cunning and witty (but fails).

Lost causes seem to be his thing (hence his nostalgia for white supremacy).

 Care to back that up?  I have friends of all colors.  I venerate the hand of Fr. Moses Berry, an African-American priest in a neighboring town.  Aaaaaand my wife is a Korean-American.  I realize that the forums' aversion to ad hominems is losing its luster 'round here, but this goes too far.

Ah, the good old "but I have a black friend" defense... I was wondering how soon it would pop up.

Maybe it's true that you do not behave as a white supremacist in your day to day life. That's good.

But...

Fact 1: The CSA was a white supremacist government, and white supremacy was a cornerstone of its founding, as Confederate VP Alexander Stephens made very plain.

Fact 2: You are nostalgic for the CSA and are therefore nostalgic for white supremacy.

There is nothing hyperbolic or sensationalist or even "ad hominem" in the above two statements.

And even if you kid yourself that the CSA was really just about states' rights, resisting overbearing federal government, blah blah, your callous overlooking of the monstrous horror of the enslavement of Africans, as just some superficial flaw on an otherwise admirable society, is reprehensible and inhuman.

 Ah yes.  The product of New England revisionism.  You boys are wound up tighter than a preachers' belt on Sunday morning.  

Informal warning: Please stay on topic. Thanks, Carl Kraeff
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 04:50:50 PM by Carl Kraeff (Second Chance) » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 9,945


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #197 on: May 08, 2013, 04:51:36 PM »

If I wasn't going to logout and go home (a veritable haven of love and sanity!!), I'd pop some corn, open a beer (well, maybe just a Coke) and enjoy the show. Grin
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
Iconodule
Uranopolitan
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA (Diocese of Eastern Pennsylvania)
Posts: 6,834


"My god is greater."


« Reply #198 on: May 08, 2013, 05:07:56 PM »

Ah, the good old "but I have a black friend" defense... I was wondering how soon it would pop up.

Maybe it's true that you do not behave as a white supremacist in your day to day life. That's good.

But...

Fact 1: The CSA was a white supremacist government, and white supremacy was a cornerstone of its founding, as Confederate VP Alexander Stephens made very plain.

Fact 2: You are nostalgic for the CSA and are therefore nostalgic for white supremacy.

There is nothing hyperbolic or sensationalist or even "ad hominem" in the above two statements.

And even if you kid yourself that the CSA was really just about states' rights, resisting overbearing federal government, blah blah, your callous overlooking of the monstrous horror of the enslavement of Africans, as just some superficial flaw on an otherwise admirable society, is reprehensible and inhuman.

 Ah yes.  The product of New England revisionism.  

Of course you must say this, though of course without any substantiating evidence. So try this....

Read here the speech by Alexander Stephens plain affirming that:

Quote
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

And then try to demonstrate that this is somehow Yankee revisionism.

I look forward to the hilarious results.

I'm glad to hear though that you've brought yourself to kiss the hand of Fr. Moses Berry. Your next step is to stop glorifying the people who treated his ancestors like cattle.
 You are warned for 30 days for getting off topic. If you wish to contest this decision, you must PM me first. Carl Kraeff
Logged

"A riddle or the cricket's cry
Is to doubt a fit reply." - William Blake

Quote from: Byron
Just ignore iconotools delusions. He is the biggest multiculturalist globalist there is due to his unfortunate background.
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: <Insert your favourite patriotic attribute here> Orthodox
Posts: 5,941



« Reply #199 on: May 08, 2013, 05:11:00 PM »

If I wasn't going to logout and go home

Heretic!
Logged

GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #200 on: May 08, 2013, 06:34:55 PM »

Ah, the good old "but I have a black friend" defense... I was wondering how soon it would pop up.

Maybe it's true that you do not behave as a white supremacist in your day to day life. That's good.

But...

Fact 1: The CSA was a white supremacist government, and white supremacy was a cornerstone of its founding, as Confederate VP Alexander Stephens made very plain.

Fact 2: You are nostalgic for the CSA and are therefore nostalgic for white supremacy.

There is nothing hyperbolic or sensationalist or even "ad hominem" in the above two statements.

And even if you kid yourself that the CSA was really just about states' rights, resisting overbearing federal government, blah blah, your callous overlooking of the monstrous horror of the enslavement of Africans, as just some superficial flaw on an otherwise admirable society, is reprehensible and inhuman.

 Ah yes.  The product of New England revisionism.  

Of course you must say this, though of course without any substantiating evidence. So try this....

Read here the speech by Alexander Stephens plain affirming that:

Quote
Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

And then try to demonstrate that this is somehow Yankee revisionism.

I look forward to the hilarious results.

I'm glad to hear though that you've brought yourself to kiss the hand of Fr. Moses Berry. Your next step is to stop glorifying the people who treated his ancestors like cattle.

 Not only do you pick and choose what you read, sometimes it appears you don't bother to read at all.  To wit: we were both asked to keep things on topic by a moderator yet you stumble and plod right on.  Start a new thread and I'll respond accordingly.  Smiley
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antioch
Posts: 706


Out of This World


« Reply #201 on: May 08, 2013, 08:11:54 PM »

Brother Nathaniel speaks from a bad place. He was most likely traumatized as a child and at some point picked up a lot of these anti-Jewish conspiracy theories that he echoes on his YouTube videos. It's acceptable to criticize the beliefs of the Jewish faith. I certainly dislike when people try to make legitimate criticism of Judaism, or of the Israeli government, look like an attack on the Jewish people.

Brother Nathanael has moved into what I call "crazy territory," with his conspiracy delusions of Jewish domination of international banks, Jewish 911 coverups, Holocaust denial. This is classic "nutjob" material. I don't understand why any sane person would think otherwise. And no, I don't care what you've read; scapegoating is NEVER justifiable, and it's always in bad taste.  police
Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #202 on: May 08, 2013, 09:21:54 PM »

So let me understand. Br. Nathanael is accused of anti-Semitism (let us grant that one could take the part for the whole, i.e., call him anti-Jew even if he is not anti-Arab, both Jews and Arabs being Semites), on the basis of a statement that he was freaked out as a child to see many occult symbols prominently displayed at a Jewish center, together with some bad smell of death (as he perceived it). Perceiving Judaism to be a religion of death, this man turned to the true religion of Life, the Christian Faith.

So would there be the same outrage, if he had substituted Islam for Judaism? If he said, "I went into the mosque, and I saw occult symbol after occult symbol prominently displayed, and there was a strange pall of death and a musty smell which made me think Islam is a religion of death. So I turned to Jesus Christ and I embraced faith in Him." Would we, in equal measure, call him an anti-Semite for saying THAT?

And, on the basis of such a statement about a MOSQUE, would people be calling him hateful, or dangerous, or criminal, or despicable? This is an important question!

Whether or not he saw occult symbolism as a child or was simply dropped on his head, he presents a bigoted and inaccurate World View. You only need to view his last couple of You Tubes about the Boston Bombing to see that this guy is pretty crazy. I personally think he is possesed by a demon as I have said before.. He needs pity and prayers not encouragement IMHO

Never the less, if you can honestly look at his stuff and think he has some really good idea's or if you agree with his analyses of events then I would say there is something quite a miss about your understanding of the World and how it works.

Sometimes people who are deeply Antisemitic are called Nazi's.. It's just short hand and easy to understand. It does not mean the person is actually a Nazi Party Member, though we have had one or two who were members on these boards in the past.

The labelling of individuals as Nazi, Fascist, racist, anti-Semite etc., is all too often a tactic of the Left and avoids having to argue with holders of views sharply divergent from theirs. It is an Orwellian tactic that appears to have little to commend it. In my view Brother Nathaniel's preoccupations appear either indicative of an unhealthy preoccupation or possibly a spiritual problem. Neither merits him being labelled but perhaps given less of an audience but rather some appropriate support.

Red Baiting is the often used tactic the Right uses to shut down debate. They use is without hesitation early and often. Obama for example is called a "Communist" when any sane person can see that he is nothing more then the most tepid of Liberals. Red baiting is an unhealthy preoccupation or possibly a spiritual problem.
 
You are warned for 30 days for getting off topic. If you wish to contest this decision, you must PM me first. Carl Kraeff
[/color]
Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #203 on: May 08, 2013, 09:28:50 PM »

Brother Nathaniel speaks from a bad place. He was most likely traumatized as a child and at some point picked up a lot of these anti-Jewish conspiracy theories that he echoes on his YouTube videos. It's acceptable to criticize the beliefs of the Jewish faith. I certainly dislike when people try to make legitimate criticism of Judaism, or of the Israeli government, look like an attack on the Jewish people.

Brother Nathanael has moved into what I call "crazy territory," with his conspiracy delusions of Jewish domination of international banks, Jewish 911 coverups, Holocaust denial. This is classic "nutjob" material. I don't understand why any sane person would think otherwise. And no, I don't care what you've read; scapegoating is NEVER justifiable, and it's always in bad taste.  police

I don't intend to write too much more about him but I agree with the post above. Nathanael is pretty close to stark raving mad. He is the poster boy for not playing with a full deck. If you find yourself nodding in agreement with his various Antisemitic conspiracy theories or admire him in any way, it may be time to take a nice restful vacation.



Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,959


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #204 on: May 08, 2013, 09:35:10 PM »

I wonder if Carl shouldn't be having second thoughts about unlocking this thread.

I'm sure he has third and fourth thoughts as well about a good many threads here.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 3,707


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #205 on: May 08, 2013, 09:51:06 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 09:52:45 PM by yeshuaisiam » Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 4,456



« Reply #206 on: May 08, 2013, 10:22:12 PM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


And doggon, if you and I agree, it has to be true!
Logged

God did not create man equal.  Samuel Colt made man equal.  Blessed be the Peacemaker.
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 3,794



WWW
« Reply #207 on: May 08, 2013, 10:31:13 PM »

this man masquerading as a monk is an anti-semite
He seems over the top with showing himself as a monk, what with the white cross on the hat, but nonetheless, doesn't he count as a monk if he is a novice?

I am interested in what his status in the church actually is, since there have been allegations by critics that he is not a canonical Orthodox. But on the other hand, others, including people who did not promote him, have repeatedly looked into this and found he was.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 10:31:34 PM by rakovsky » Logged
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 3,794



WWW
« Reply #208 on: May 08, 2013, 10:36:56 PM »

What you call 'distraction' might be what Arab Christians would call 'education.'  Arabs always complained about the word 'Semite' and 'Semitic' as being manipulated.  Seeing that they too are Semitic... Who are any of us to argue with them?
One Christian from the Holy Land pointed out about this term that he is a Semite himself.

What is the label that is given to racism against native Semitic peoples, calling them "Sand monkeys", etc.?
Logged
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #209 on: May 09, 2013, 07:25:36 AM »

He seems over the top with showing himself as a monk, what with the white cross on the hat, but nonetheless, doesn't he count as a monk if he is a novice?

No. And there are no proofs he is even novice (there are many hints that prove the contrary).
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #210 on: May 09, 2013, 09:25:09 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 09:25:29 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Santagranddad
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: ROCA
Posts: 986



« Reply #211 on: May 09, 2013, 09:55:19 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The term 'anti-Semitism' has much currency but is a misleading social construct for reasons others have already set out. The only description that accurately reflects what many users of this misrepresentative term is Jew hate. Sadly I have seen evidence of this among people of Semitic and other origins.

As to the gentleman calling himself Brother Nathaniel, watching his video's is a pastime best avoided if only to avoid the necessity of having your cringe surgically removed afterwards. So why an earth give him so much attention? Surely this is what he craves and what he should not be given, whether his behaviour is viewed as a psychological or spiritual sickness or outright bigotry? As to his views reflecting Nationalist Socialist core ideology, these Jew hating predate Adolf Hitler's setting down of his political philosophy, so why the label him with that tag? If his offence is to hate and denigrate Jews then why not simply say so, after all Hitler's message went rather further than Jew hate.

The all too ready labelling of those who hold divergent views, even repugnant ones, is I believe a sickness in our society and stems from political philosophies incompatible with Christianity, indeed hostile to Christianity. Saint Paul would have found himself reaching out to those holding beliefs repugnant and contrary to the Gospel yet he did so without insulting them.
Logged
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,605


« Reply #212 on: May 09, 2013, 09:58:31 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  
Logged
vamrat
Vamratoraptor
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica
Posts: 7,099



« Reply #213 on: May 09, 2013, 10:37:30 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Logged

One day we will talk about why people fetishize children, but for now I'll keep on the side of humanity that doesn't think the height of life is a drinking a juice box and eating a tater tot while defecating in their pants.
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 9,945


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #214 on: May 09, 2013, 11:13:25 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOLOLOLOL!!

You nailed it, brother!!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 11:15:51 AM by J Michael » Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #215 on: May 09, 2013, 11:25:02 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The term 'antisemitism' has much currency but is a misleading social construct for reasons others have already set out. The only description that accurately reflects what many users of this misrepresentative term is Jew hate. Sadly I have seen evidence of this among people of Semitic and other origins.

As to the gentleman calling himself Brother Nathaniel, watching his video's is a pastime best avoided if only to avoid the necessity of having your cringe surgically removed afterwards. So why an earth give him so much attention? Surely this is what he craves and what he should not be given, whether his behaviour is viewed as a psychological or spiritual sickness or outright bigotry? As to his views reflecting Nationalist Socialist core ideology, these Jew hating predate Adolf Hitler's setting down of his political philosophy, so why the label him with that tag? If his offence is to hate and denigrate Jews then why not simply say so, after all Hitler's message went rather further than Jew hate.

The all too ready labelling of those who hold divergent views, even repugnant ones, is I believe a sickness in our society and stems from political philosophies incompatible with Christianity, indeed hostile to Christianity. Saint Paul would have found himself reaching out to those holding beliefs repugnant and contrary to the Gospel yet he did so without insulting them.

Jewish scapegoating was not the sole component of Hitler's message but it was near or at the top of the list and was the core component of his World View, that Jew's secretly control things and ruined Germany.

Nathanael is very popular with modern Neo Nazi's and White Supremacists. He is "Our kind of Jew". He has granted extensive interviews with White Supremest publications and he is mentioned in their press in glowing terms.

So it is not at all inaccurate to call the guy a Nazi. Probably the most exact term is "The Nazi Loving Br. Nathanael", but why split hairs?
Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #216 on: May 09, 2013, 11:31:26 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.
Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #217 on: May 09, 2013, 11:32:10 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very well said.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #218 on: May 09, 2013, 11:45:17 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Very well said.

So he is just misunderstood?

I think not.

He repeats classic Nazi Ideology and makes common cause and actively works with modern Neo Nazi's and White Supremists..
Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,410


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #219 on: May 09, 2013, 11:47:40 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
rakovsky
Protokentarchos
*********
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 3,794



WWW
« Reply #220 on: May 09, 2013, 11:51:41 AM »

all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.
What about the opposite strain in the European far right and in 1980's South Africa?

What about the fact that fundamentalists in the US tend to be the least tolerant, but also the most supportive of that state's system?
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 11:52:06 AM by rakovsky » Logged
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 11,860


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #221 on: May 09, 2013, 11:54:06 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.

He is certainly a bigot. I don't know if he has a racial point of view. What he does do is repeat the main components of Nazi Ideology in terms of Jewish "World Domination", without any deviation just with current day players. He repeats Nazi Ideology. That makes calling him a Nazi pretty accurate. Calling him a Racist may even be less accurate. However, he makes common cause with Racists.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2013, 11:55:27 AM by Marc1152 » Logged

\"Why were so many Civil War battles fought in National Parks? \"
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,410


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #222 on: May 09, 2013, 11:57:02 AM »

He doesn't hate Jews nor is he an anti-semite.

He dislikes/exposes Zionist Jews.  There is a huge difference.


Nathanael repeats core Nazi Ideology, that Jews secretly control World Events, the Monetary System and similar. Like all good Anti-Semites he also does not like Israel but you haven't been watching his You Tubes much if you think the core of his message is some sort of Ant-Zionism or concern for Palestinians. That is strictly ancillary to his Ideology.

The concerns expressed in Germany regarding the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution, Jewish influence in German society, and regarding international Jewish movements was not entirely incorrect.  To say that their concerns were not entirely incorrect does not mean that they were entirely right either.  And whether they were right or wrong about certain things does not justify murder.  The problem with this subject is the jump from "Nazis killed millions of Jews" to "criticizing Jews is what Jew-killing Nazis did, so if you criticize anything done by Jews you are just like Jew-killing Nazis."  Even if one accepts the claim that the Nazis' ultimate intent was to wipe out and kill off all Jews (rather than deport them), this would not invalidate all of their perceptions of the Jews, it would only indicate that they acted wrongly in trying to kill off the Jews.

If someone gets angry at their wife for getting a speeding ticket and kills her, that person is a murderer.  He should not have killed his wife, but that doesn't mean that the murderer was wrong about the fact that his wife got a speeding ticket, he just didn't address the problem properly.  It also doesn't mean that everyone who gets upset at their wife for getting a speeding ticket is "just like" the murderer.

No group of people is essentially "evil", whether they be Nazis, Jews, etc. But the "bad rap" that Jews have received in different societies at different times is not entirely baseless.  If one cannot acknowledge that possibility, not much can come from a discussion on the subject.  

This is pretty much the reason that a Reductio ad Hitlerum is logically flawed.  For the most part it looks like the entire debate against this fellow is:

He doesn't like Zionism.  Many Zionists are Jews.  Hitler didn't like Jews.  THIS MAN IS HITLER!!!!!!!11!!1!

Hitler liked dogs.  If you like dogs you share an interest with Hitler.

Hitler had brown hair.  If you have brown hair you are like Hitler.

Hitler was a decorated veteran.  All decorated veterans from Hermann Goering to Audie Murphey are wannabe Hitlers.

Brother Nathaniel is a monk.  Rasputin was a monk.  OMFG HE'S A RASPUTIN-HITLER HYBRID SO HE MUST LIKE DOGS A DOG BIT ME WHEN I WAS A KID THIS MAN BELIEVES EVERYONE DESERVES TO DIE IN AUSCHWITZ-RABIESWALD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nathaneal is not an Anti-Zionist. He is Anti-Jewish and tells a sordid tale of a complicated conspiracy among Jews to run the World. Included within that is hatred of Israel of course but that is not anywhere close to his main message. It is tangential.

Not all Anti-Zionists are Antisemites but all Antisemites are Anti-Israel.

And not all anti-semites are Nazis.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with the others.  The word "Nazi" has lost much of its meaning and power because it is overused.  Being a Nazi is more than just being an anti-Semite or, more broadly, a racialist.  I write this as someone who spent a great deal of his youth engaged in fist fights with self-professed Neo-Nazis, anti-Semites, and just plain ignorant white folk who have never seen a black person.

Nazis should be called Nazis, but racists should just be called racists.

He is certainly a bigot. I don't know if he has a racial point of view. What he does do is repeat the main components of Nazi Ideology in terms of the Jewish Question, without any deviation just with current day players. He repeats Nazi Ideology. That makes calling him a Nazi pretty accurate. Calling him a Racist may even be less accurate. However, he makes common cause with Racists.

Does he support nationalization of the industries?  Does he preach war in the name of patriotism and spreading the borders of his nation for expansion?

Those are just as strong platforms of the Nazi ethos as anti-Semitism. 
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Michał Kalina
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,465


WWW
« Reply #223 on: May 09, 2013, 12:12:34 PM »

Brother Nathaniel is a monk. 

No, he's not.
Logged

Byzantinism
no longer posting here
GabrieltheCelt
Son of a Preacher man
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,971


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #224 on: May 09, 2013, 12:19:00 PM »

Brother Nathaniel is a monk. 

No, he's not.

You're probably correct, but can you prove it?  I think that if he's proven to not be a monk, it would probably dissuade a lot of folks from giving him their time and attention.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying

"Yes, you are a white supremacist, ..."  ~Iconodule
Tags: Nathanael Kapner Br.(sic) Nathanael 
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.193 seconds with 72 queries.