Author Topic: Baptism  (Read 869 times)

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Offline Tommelomsky

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Baptism
« on: March 08, 2013, 06:24:42 AM »
First, forgive me if this is an old topic (I tried searching for it, but could not find anything about it). I do have a question regarding baptism as I at some level this coming spring will talk to my parish-priest (Igumen) about conversion. This is where the question comes in:

As a former catholic that did recieve chrismation, but being baptized as an infant, is it mandatory/neccecary to be baptized and then chrismated or just chrismated. Some orthodox I have chatted with from the US claims that I have be baptized no matter what and then chrismated or else my soul could be at stake.

I understand if this appears like strange or even silly in writings, but it is the cause of some concern. Why? I asked some people in my parish (native converts) and they did not get a baptism, just chrismation. Is there a standard norm for this or does it change from country to country?
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2013, 06:41:50 AM »
As far as I know, the Roman Catholic baptism is considered valid, so converts are received by chrismation only. As long as baptism uses the Trinitarian formula, it is valid. (My husband is Anglican, and even he will only receive chrismation). At least that's Antiochian practice; not sure if another jurisdiction has stricter requirements.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2013, 07:08:40 AM »
First, forgive me if this is an old topic (I tried searching for it, but could not find anything about it). I do have a question regarding baptism as I at some level this coming spring will talk to my parish-priest (Igumen) about conversion. This is where the question comes in:

As a former catholic that did recieve chrismation, but being baptized as an infant, is it mandatory/neccecary to be baptized and then chrismated or just chrismated. Some orthodox I have chatted with from the US claims that I have be baptized no matter what and then chrismated or else my soul could be at stake.

I understand if this appears like strange or even silly in writings, but it is the cause of some concern. Why? I asked some people in my parish (native converts) and they did not get a baptism, just chrismation. Is there a standard norm for this or does it change from country to country?

It does vary between jurisdictions, it depends on your bishop. In my experience, as you are coming from the RCC, it is much more likely that you will be chrismated only, rather than baptized and chrismated. Your priest would either already know what to do, or would need to consult the bishop about your particular case.
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2013, 08:54:45 AM »
From what I've read, most of the Holy Orthodox Churches admit converts through the Sacraments of Holy Baptism and Chrismation, except the Ecumenical Patriarchate and the Church of Romania, perhaps there are a few others too, that admit members who are converting from a church where they had been baptized in the Name of the Holy Trinity, with water, through Holy Chrismation.  However, most of the jurisdictions in the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of North and Central America (ACOB), admit Trinitarian converts through Holy Chrismation.  I think the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR), admits converts through Holy Baptism and Chrismation.  You could ask the parish priest under whom you are being catechized what is the practice.
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Offline TheMathematician

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2013, 10:33:30 AM »
The general rule in ROCOR, as I was, is baptism.

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2013, 11:20:16 AM »
First, forgive me if this is an old topic (I tried searching for it, but could not find anything about it). I do have a question regarding baptism as I at some level this coming spring will talk to my parish-priest (Igumen) about conversion. This is where the question comes in:

As a former catholic that did recieve chrismation, but being baptized as an infant, is it mandatory/neccecary to be baptized and then chrismated or just chrismated. Some orthodox I have chatted with from the US claims that I have be baptized no matter what and then chrismated or else my soul could be at stake.

I understand if this appears like strange or even silly in writings, but it is the cause of some concern. Why? I asked some people in my parish (native converts) and they did not get a baptism, just chrismation. Is there a standard norm for this or does it change from country to country?

It does vary between jurisdictions, it depends on your bishop. In my experience, as you are coming from the RCC, it is much more likely that you will be chrismated only, rather than baptized and chrismated. Your priest would either already know what to do, or would need to consult the bishop about your particular case.

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Offline mike

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2013, 12:33:26 PM »
see below

Offline Tommelomsky

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2013, 01:07:21 PM »
My priest is sick (on 50 % sickleave) and don t wish to make any appointments for talks until he is well. The reason I bring this up is that some US Orthodox folks has got in my ears and basically said that my soul is danger unless I get baptized and then chrismated. Maybe foolish to let it be an upset factor. But it is..(silly me).

I will talk to my priest as soon as his health permits it. For now..I rather do not want to bother him with any questions or anything at all.
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2013, 01:23:29 PM »
My priest is sick (on 50 % sickleave) and don t wish to make any appointments for talks until he is well. The reason I bring this up is that some US Orthodox folks has got in my ears and basically said that my soul is danger unless I get baptized and then chrismated. Maybe foolish to let it be an upset factor. But it is..(silly me).

I will talk to my priest as soon as his health permits it. For now..I rather do not want to bother him with any questions or anything at all.


Don't listen to anyone, including me. Your priest and bishop will let you know what you need to do.
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Offline Tommelomsky

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2013, 01:27:59 PM »
Yes, seems like this is the only choice I got.
Thanks for your replies to all of you. Wishing you all a blessed friday and a peacefilled weekend.

:)
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Offline Benjamin the Red

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2013, 06:28:10 PM »
My priest is sick (on 50 % sickleave) and don t wish to make any appointments for talks until he is well. The reason I bring this up is that some US Orthodox folks has got in my ears and basically said that my soul is danger unless I get baptized and then chrismated. Maybe foolish to let it be an upset factor. But it is..(silly me).

I will talk to my priest as soon as his health permits it. For now..I rather do not want to bother him with any questions or anything at all.

Ignore them. Ignore everyone. As Katherine said, even ignore us. All that matters is the action of your priest as blessed by your bishop. However they say you are to be received is how you will be received, no further questions.

That said, ROCOR tends to be one of the most conservative jurisdictions, and this includes the reception of converts. They may very well baptize you. However, if chrismation is the method chosen to receive you, then it will happen that way and you are no less Orthodox or no less saved than any other Orthodox Christian, regardless of how they entered the Church.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2013, 07:43:37 PM »
I got my baptism many years ago as a child.

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 06:11:50 PM »
God will direct you all the best course of action.
there is no 'risk to your soul' if you have the right motives and are in obedience to your priest and bishop.
it depends on lots of things.
recently a friend i met in church who was previously a devout catholic Christian was chrismated into the coptic orthodox church, while another friend i met in another church, who was catholic and then protestant, was baptised (by a different priest). i was surprised about that, as i thought he was going to be chrismated.
they are both happy and at peace in their spiritual lives.

off topic: has anyone else had thoughts of the sauna while in a very small baptismal room with a large font and a very large quantity of incense?

maybe i should have taken off my big coat and it would have felt less like a sauna, but the room was extremely small and there was nowhere for the coat!

Offline Tommelomsky

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2013, 05:12:39 PM »
Update

Have spoken to one of the elders in my parish and I trust her. In given time, (when and IF God wills) I will most likely be chrismated. But the priest will guide me in this, that I am most confident of.

But thanks for sharing your insights.
God bless you all.
The meaning of life is to acquire the grace of the Holy Spirit.
Saint Seraphim of Sarov

Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)

+ Glory be to God for all things! +

Offline Martyr Eugenia

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2013, 12:07:01 AM »
Sort of a flipside question: I was a cradle Roman Catholic, baptized as an infant wandered into protestantism and was re-baptized Pentacostal in a body of water as an adult, dunked 3x's trinitarian method (so I was full aware of how and why, etc). When I was in a Lutheran confirmation class I became very guilty for having thrown away my infant baptism so to say by being re-baptized when the Bible says, one baptism. The pastor said I should be alright but not to do it again. So for me, to have to be re-re-baptized is going to be traumatic. Needless to say I do not believe I will be able to survive finally being allowed to have communion again. The Lutheran communion sent me back to my pew in tears...it had been years. Lord, have mercy.

Offline mike

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 06:02:57 PM »
Sort of a flipside question: I was a cradle Roman Catholic, baptized as an infant wandered into protestantism and was re-baptized Pentacostal in a body of water as an adult, dunked 3x's trinitarian method (so I was full aware of how and why, etc). When I was in a Lutheran confirmation class I became very guilty for having thrown away my infant baptism so to say by being re-baptized when the Bible says, one baptism. The pastor said I should be alright but not to do it again. So for me, to have to be re-re-baptized is going to be traumatic. Needless to say I do not believe I will be able to survive finally being allowed to have communion again. The Lutheran communion sent me back to my pew in tears...it had been years. Lord, have mercy.

Let's get some facts straight: you are not in favour or "re"baptism so you purposely chose ROCOR and ROCOR will most likely "re"baptise you. Is that true? If it is, what logic is in this?

Offline mabsoota

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2013, 05:27:22 AM »
sometimes we learn valuable lessons in the waiting time.
patience is a very important virtue, and God will bless your obedience and your patience.
sometimes when we are waiting for Holy Communion, we forget God gives blessings at other times too.

Offline IoanC

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Re: Baptism
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 03:16:05 AM »
Elder Arsenie Papacioc of Romania was saying something along the lines that the point is not whether it is done according to the rules which can even vary between parishes or priests, but according to the sacramental value. For instance, to be immersed in water three times means that you die and resurrect with Christ in the name of The Holy Trinity. So, I would encourage to learn about what the sacrament signifies and of course make sure it is done accordingly. After all, the sacrament has mysterious/transcendent value. It is a not a law or a rule, but something powerful, beautiful and a gift from God.

So, as far as Orthodoxy is concerned, it's not a matter of judging people who come in, but making sure they receive the proper care.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 03:19:11 AM by IoanC »