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Author Topic: My Mom Gave me a Jewish Prayer Shawl...  (Read 7015 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #180 on: April 21, 2013, 10:06:07 AM »

Actually Yeshua it is a shortening and later form of Yehoshua used during the 2nd Temple period. The name Yeshu is unknown in archeological sources and inscriptions. 

There were 24  ossuaries found inscribed with Yeshuas and Yehoshuas. None of the others have Yeshu (Shanks and Witherington 2003)

Of course you know, Aramaic/Hebrew inscriptions have no vowels. Aramaic/Hebrew names would only end in "s" if they were transcribed in Greek. Even so, the ones you quote sound like funny (phoney) reconstructions (no s ending in Semitic languages; no sh grapheme in Greek). The earliest Greek sources unanimously transcribe the name as Ἰησοῦς. There's no reason why they would have altered the name to leave that "a" out. The only logical conclusion is that it wasn't there to begin with. 

Moreover, none of those ossuaries contains the bones of Our Lord and probably very few if any belong to Galilean peasants.   
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« Reply #181 on: April 21, 2013, 10:12:51 AM »

I don't tell you that using Jesus from the Greek should be spelled Eeoosous


What's that?!

Yeshua and Yeshu are basically the same spelling but using the equivalent Aramaic letters for Yeshu. Yeshu is the pronunciation used in the west syriac dialect.

The East Syriac pronunciation would be Isho, but the spelling is the same. No "a" vowel at the end. Two syllables, not three. 
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« Reply #182 on: April 21, 2013, 10:56:36 AM »

You can't do them both. It has to be one or the other. The Passover meal can't be served during Holy Week since we *fast* during Holy Week.

Sure you can. We do it in Church on Holy Thursday.  BTW, fasting is optional in Orthodoxy.

I'm not going to say that you're right other than to say that one can choose to fast or not to fast.  Jesus in the desert had the same choice we did which is why we commemorate the Great Lent which has no analog in Judaism.

http://www.howtofast.net/spiritual/judaism.html

Fasting in Orthodoxy is a tool. The Tradition of the Church has always seen fasting as only a tool to combat the passions and to open the door to the renewal of the Holy Spirit: beyond this higher purpose it has no value.

There's no concept of humility.  No self-denial?  No ascetics?  Eat lamb on Holy Thursday (even though sundown Holy Thursday = Holy Friday on the liturgical calendar) because that is the Passover meal?

Who said anything about eating lamb?

Whatever is eaten at the passover meal - beef brisket, turkey, chicken

http://www.jewfaq.org/holidaya.htm

Didn't the children of Israel eat lamb and unleavened bread before the first born of the Egyptians were killed: Exodus 12:21-28

I know what traditional Jews eat at a Passover seder. However, my focus is on what Yeshua did.  It is a new covenant.

Which fulfills the old covenant.
  
"Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the Lord'"

"For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night (at sunset was the start of the fourteenth day of the first month) in which he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat, this is my body, which is broken for you. This do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood. This do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come."

Please cite where you quote Scripture.

It is an important day for me as well as Pascha.  I do not take it lightly and am offended when people here make jest of it.

You want to glorify Christ resurrected or you want to celebrate the Israelites avoiding the angel of death; hence, Passover?
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« Reply #183 on: April 21, 2013, 10:59:32 AM »

I don't tell you that using Jesus from the Greek should be spelled Eeoosous


What's that?!


I have no idea. Probably not Greek, though.
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« Reply #184 on: April 21, 2013, 11:03:14 AM »

I don't tell you that using Jesus from the Greek should be spelled Eeoosous


What's that?!

I have no idea. Probably not Greek, though.

It's hard to wrap one's mind around pronouncing 'e-ee' Tongue
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« Reply #185 on: April 21, 2013, 12:41:51 PM »

There are some icons that depict a shawl hovering over the saints depicted.  The icon of the Last Supper usually depicts this. 

The drape seen in icons is a symbol that the event depicted in the icon took place indoors. Proper icons use inverse perspective and other means to "uncover" what went on, in ways which are the opposite of earthly realism, to express heavenly and spiritual reality. The Mystical Supper, though it was conducted inside, is not shown in a room with walls which limits it in time and place, but is shown "in the open", as the eternal event that it is. The festooning of the drape in the icon's composition is the motif which tells us that the Supper indeed took place indoors.

Conventional icons of saints do not show the drape, unless it is in a panel of a "life" icon, showing a scene from the saint's life which took place indoors.

 I knew I should've consulted you first!  Smiley
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« Reply #186 on: April 21, 2013, 01:26:14 PM »

This thread and argument is absurd.

The arguments for the name fetish, although apparently persuasive to some who think they've discovered the true traditions, aren't even coherent, much less cogent. 

So the death of St. John is the end of the "authentic" Church and teachings, but that St. John used Christ's Greek name doesn't really factor in.  I'm sure there's some clever messianic answer for that one.

That St. John's disciple, St. Ignatius of Antioch, who adamantly protested this sort of nonsense, is ignored (I've asked about why this is twice and have yet to receive a response).  But apparently selected writings of St. Polycarp and St. Ireneaus (the latter, who lived/wrote considerably later) are used to prove this position.

Plus, there's this little thing in Orthodoxy, that Christ leads and guides the Church.  We may make mistakes and such, but for nearly 2,000 years, the name/festival/Hebrew idolatry has not been a part of Church teachings and practice.  The fulfillment of Hebrew festivals and traditions is (very different).

Don't you think, if this stuff was that important, He would've guided us to it before now, and in a more persuasive manner than some wacky late 20th century Protestant offshoot?

This really is just silliness.
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« Reply #187 on: April 21, 2013, 01:50:46 PM »

St. Ignatius of Antioch:

Quote
Chapter X.—Beware of Judaizing.

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. Therefore, having become His disciples, let us learn to live according to the principles of Christianity.695 For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, is not of God. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the sour leaven, and be ye changed into the new leaven, which is Jesus Christ. Be ye salted in Him, lest any one among you should be corrupted, since by your savour ye shall be convicted. It is absurd to profess696 Christ Jesus, and to Judaize. For Christianity did not embrace697 Judaism, but Judaism Christianity, that so every tongue which believeth might be gathered together to God.

Let us not, therefore, be insensible to His kindness. For were He to reward us according to our works, we should cease to be. For “if Thou, Lord, shalt mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?”698 Let us therefore prove ourselves worthy of that name which we have received. For whosoever is called by any other name besides this, he is not of God; for he has not received the prophecy which speaks thus concerning us: “The people shall be called by a new name, which the Lord shall name them, and shall be a holy people.”699 This was first fulfilled in Syria; for “the disciples were called Christians at Antioch,”700 when Paul and Peter were laying the foundations of the Church. Lay aside, therefore, the evil, the old, the corrupt leaven,701 and be ye changed into the new leaven of grace. Abide in Christ, that the stranger702 may not have dominion over you. It is absurd to speak of Jesus Christ with the tongue, and to cherish in the mind a Judaism which has now come to an end. For where there is Christianity there cannot be Judaism. For Christ is one, in whom every nation that believes, and every tongue that confesses, is gathered unto God. And those that were of a stony heart have become the children of Abraham, the friend of God;703 and in his seed all those have been blessed704 who were ordained to eternal life705 in Christ.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.iii.x.html

Also:

Quote
Chapter VI.—Do not accept Judaism.
But if any one preach the Jewish law923 unto you, listen not to him. For it is better to hearken to Christian doctrine from a man who has been circumcised, than to Judaism from one uncircumcised. But if either of such persons do not speak concerning Jesus Christ, they are in my judgment but as monuments and sepulchres of the dead, upon which are written only the names of men. Flee therefore the wicked devices and snares of the prince 83 of this world, lest at any time being conquered924 by his artifices,925 ye grow weak in your love. But be ye all joined together926 with an undivided heart. And I thank my God that I have a good conscience in respect to you, and that no one has it in his power to boast, either privately or publicly, that I have burdened927 any one either in much or in little. And I wish for all among whom I have spoken, that they may not possess that for a testimony against them.

If any one preaches the one God of the law and the prophets, but denies Christ to be the Son of God, he is a liar, even as also is his father the devil,928 and is a Jew falsely so called, being possessed of929 mere carnal circumcision. If any one confesses Christ Jesus the Lord, but denies the God of the law and of the prophets, saying that the Father of Christ is not the Maker of heaven and earth, he has not continued in the truth any more than his father the devil,930 and is a disciple of Simon Magus, not of the Holy Spirit. If any one says there is one God, and also confesses Christ Jesus, but thinks the Lord to be a mere man, and not the only-begotten931 God, and Wisdom, and the Word of God, and deems Him to consist merely of a soul and body, such an one is a serpent, that preaches deceit and error for the destruction of men. And such a man is poor in understanding, even as by name he is an Ebionite.932 If any one confesses the truths mentioned,933 but calls lawful wedlock, and the procreation of children, destruction and pollution, or deems certain kinds of food abominable, such an one has the apostate dragon dwelling within him. If any one confesses the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, and praises the creation, but calls the incarnation merely an appearance, and is ashamed of the passion, such an one has denied the faith, not less than the Jews who killed Christ. If any one confesses these things, and that God the Word did dwell in a human body, being within it as the Word, even as the soul also is in the body, because it was God that inhabited it, and not a human soul, but affirms that unlawful unions are a good thing, and places the highest happiness934 in pleasure, as does the man who is falsely called a Nicolaitan, this person can neither be a lover of God, nor a lover of Christ, but is a corrupter of his own flesh, and therefore void of the Holy Spirit, and a stranger to Christ. All such persons are but monuments and sepulchres of the dead, upon which are written only the names of dead men. Flee, therefore, the wicked devices and snares of the spirit which now worketh in the children of this world,935 lest at any time being overcome,936 ye grow weak in your love. But be ye all joined together937 with an undivided heart and a willing mind, “being of one accord and of one judgment,”938 being always of the same opinion about the same things, both when you are at ease and in danger, both in sorrow and in joy. I thank God, through Jesus Christ, that I have a good conscience in respect to you, and that no one has it in his power to boast, either privately or publicly, that I have burdened any one either in much or in little. And I wish for all among whom I have spoken, that they may not possess that for a testimony against them.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.vi.vi.html
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« Reply #188 on: April 21, 2013, 07:52:53 PM »

This thread and argument is absurd.

The arguments for the name fetish, although apparently persuasive to some who think they've discovered the true traditions, aren't even coherent, much less cogent.  

So the death of St. John is the end of the "authentic" Church and teachings, but that St. John used Christ's Greek name doesn't really factor in.  I'm sure there's some clever messianic answer for that one.

That St. John's disciple, St. Ignatius of Antioch, who adamantly protested this sort of nonsense, is ignored (I've asked about why this is twice and have yet to receive a response).  But apparently selected writings of St. Polycarp and St. Ireneaus (the latter, who lived/wrote considerably later) are used to prove this position.

Plus, there's this little thing in Orthodoxy, that Christ leads and guides the Church.  We may make mistakes and such, but for nearly 2,000 years, the name/festival/Hebrew idolatry has not been a part of Church teachings and practice.  The fulfillment of Hebrew festivals and traditions is (very different).

Don't you think, if this stuff was that important, He would've guided us to it before now, and in a more persuasive manner than some wacky late 20th century Protestant offshoot?

This really is just silliness.

I have to laugh at what you wrote. I swear you have not read ANY of what I wrote. You have some fantasy in your head.  The fulfillment of Hebrew festivals WAS MY POINT! Why would St John use His Greek name? You think that because "Jesus" is in the English bible and Iesus is in a Greek manuscript that he used his Greek name? What was written on the cross? Latin, Greek and Hebrew.  Jesus was a Jew as was John. They likely knew Greek and maybe Latin since those were used also.  I never said that some Church Fathers did not disagree with others. They DID. My point was that it is well known that St John as well as Polycarp and many others at that time, you would call heretics and Quartodecimens.  So some did while others did not, yet they are all still considered Church Fathers. So if you choose one side or the other it makes you a hypocrite.
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« Reply #189 on: April 21, 2013, 08:01:21 PM »

 [/quote]

You want to glorify Christ resurrected or you want to celebrate the Israelites avoiding the angel of death; hence, Passover?
[/quote]

I guess I have to explain this again the 1000th time.  PASSOVER....when JESUS DIED...was also when the Jews avoided the angel of death.  I do what Jesus said to...to remember His death on THAT DAY.  Christ did not resurrect ON THAT DAY. He resurrected 3 days LATER on PASCHA.  Do you get it yet?HuhHuhHuh??
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« Reply #190 on: April 21, 2013, 08:06:35 PM »

Actually Yeshua it is a shortening and later form of Yehoshua used during the 2nd Temple period. The name Yeshu is unknown in archeological sources and inscriptions. 

There were 24  ossuaries found inscribed with Yeshuas and Yehoshuas. None of the others have Yeshu (Shanks and Witherington 2003)

Of course you know, Aramaic/Hebrew inscriptions have no vowels. Aramaic/Hebrew names would only end in "s" if they were transcribed in Greek. Even so, the ones you quote sound like funny (phoney) reconstructions (no s ending in Semitic languages; no sh grapheme in Greek). The earliest Greek sources unanimously transcribe the name as Ἰησοῦς. There's no reason why they would have altered the name to leave that "a" out. The only logical conclusion is that it wasn't there to begin with. 

Moreover, none of those ossuaries contains the bones of Our Lord and probably very few if any belong to Galilean peasants.   

I made that PLURAL because there were more than one Yeshua and more that one Yehoshua named on the ossuaries.  Yeshua was not an uncommon name in that period. 
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« Reply #191 on: April 21, 2013, 08:48:47 PM »

I guess I have to explain this again the 1000th time.  PASSOVER....when JESUS DIED...was also when the Jews avoided the angel of death.

The first born of the Virgin was sacrificed on the cross for our sins.  The old covenant was abolished, fulfilled, completed.  IT IS FINISHED said Christ from the Cross.  No more seders, no more circumcisions, no more Shavuot, no more Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah.  Yet, for the Jews who didn't accept Jesus as Messiah, it was business as usual for them until the Romans ended things in 70 AD, just as Christ predicted.  Yet, the Jews became more hardened as they spread throughout the world along with Christianity.

I do what Jesus said to...to remember His death on THAT DAY.  Christ did not resurrect ON THAT DAY. He resurrected 3 days LATER on PASCHA.  Do you get it yet?HuhHuhHuh??

What don't I get?  Syncretism?   Huh
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« Reply #192 on: April 22, 2013, 07:46:18 AM »

I guess I have to explain this again the 1000th time.  PASSOVER....when JESUS DIED...was also when the Jews avoided the angel of death.

The first born of the Virgin was sacrificed on the cross for our sins.  The old covenant was abolished, fulfilled, completed.  IT IS FINISHED said Christ from the Cross.  No more seders, no more circumcisions, no more Shavuot, no more Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah.  Yet, for the Jews who didn't accept Jesus as Messiah, it was business as usual for them until the Romans ended things in 70 AD, just as Christ predicted.  Yet, the Jews became more hardened as they spread throughout the world along with Christianity.

I do what Jesus said to...to remember His death on THAT DAY.  Christ did not resurrect ON THAT DAY. He resurrected 3 days LATER on PASCHA.  Do you get it yet?HuhHuhHuh??

What don't I get?  Syncretism?   Huh

Syncretism...I have to laugh! It seems you refuse to even acknowledge that Jesus was even Jewish LOL! I remember telling an old time Russian Matushka that Jesus was Jewish. She says back to me...no he was not, he was Christian! God revealed his plan through the Jewish Holy days...that were DIRECTLY fulfilled by Christ. Take you blinders off...NOTHING I have written above is not true.
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« Reply #193 on: April 22, 2013, 10:56:39 AM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.
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« Reply #194 on: April 22, 2013, 12:43:49 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 
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« Reply #195 on: April 22, 2013, 01:37:10 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 
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« Reply #196 on: April 22, 2013, 01:57:55 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.
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« Reply #197 on: April 22, 2013, 08:55:21 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.

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« Reply #198 on: April 22, 2013, 10:31:09 PM »

I guess I have to explain this again the 1000th time.  PASSOVER....when JESUS DIED...was also when the Jews avoided the angel of death.

The first born of the Virgin was sacrificed on the cross for our sins.  The old covenant was abolished, fulfilled, completed.  IT IS FINISHED said Christ from the Cross.  No more seders, no more circumcisions, no more Shavuot, no more Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanah.  Yet, for the Jews who didn't accept Jesus as Messiah, it was business as usual for them until the Romans ended things in 70 AD, just as Christ predicted.  Yet, the Jews became more hardened as they spread throughout the world along with Christianity.

I do what Jesus said to...to remember His death on THAT DAY.  Christ did not resurrect ON THAT DAY. He resurrected 3 days LATER on PASCHA.  Do you get it yet?HuhHuhHuh??

What don't I get?  Syncretism?   Huh

Syncretism...I have to laugh! It seems you refuse to even acknowledge that Jesus was even Jewish LOL!

Jesus was a Jew.  Only a Jew descended from King David could fulfill the old covenant.  Once that old covenant was fulfilled, only those who rejected the new covenant continue to celebrate the old covenant holidays and feasts?

I remember telling an old time Russian Matushka that Jesus was Jewish. She says back to me...no he was not, he was Christian!

Ask the same question to someone in your church under the EP?  Better yet, ask your Priest.

God revealed his plan through the Jewish Holy days...that were DIRECTLY fulfilled by Christ. Take you blinders off...NOTHING I have written above is not true.

Only in your eyes it is true.  What you say is false according to St. Ignatius of Antioch.

Since Jews continue to celebrate the holidays of the old covenant, why don't they believe in Christ and react with anger when Christ is mentioned?
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« Reply #199 on: April 23, 2013, 07:31:31 AM »




Jesus was a Jew.  Only a Jew descended from King David could fulfill the old covenant.  Once that old covenant was fulfilled, only those who rejected the new covenant continue to celebrate the old covenant holidays and feasts?

God revealed his plan through the Jewish Holy days...that were DIRECTLY fulfilled by Christ. Take you blinders off...NOTHING I have written above is not true.

Only in your eyes it is true.  What you say is false according to St. Ignatius of Antioch.

Since Jews continue to celebrate the holidays of the old covenant, why don't they believe in Christ and react with anger when Christ is mentioned?
[/quote]
BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.  It is STILL quite obvious that you still don't understand the simple concept that WE DO celebrate the Jewish Feasts, they are just fulfilled in Christ. No Christian can contest the truth in that satatement. I don't know why you just can't understand that.
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« Reply #200 on: April 23, 2013, 07:33:20 AM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.
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« Reply #201 on: April 23, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.

Apparently, neither do you despite your insistence otherwise.

It is STILL quite obvious that you still don't understand the simple concept that WE DO celebrate the Jewish Feasts, they are just fulfilled in Christ.

You haven't explained how Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are fulfilled in Christ.  The Orthodox ecclesiastical year begins on September 1.  In 2013, Rosh Hashanah starts on sundown 3 days later, on the 4th.  What are Orthodox Christians supposed to commemorate with Rosh Hashanah OR is your focus on the Jewish holidays only on Passover and Shavuot?

No Christian can contest the truth in that satatement. I don't know why you just can't understand that.

Are you part Jewish?  Do you feel some obligation on the Jewish side of your family to continue to celebrate Jewish holidays?
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« Reply #202 on: April 23, 2013, 03:03:56 PM »

I keep seeing the abbreviated thread title "My mom Gave me a Jew..." when I log on to the forums.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 03:04:07 PM by NicholasMyra » Logged

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« Reply #203 on: April 23, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »

I keep seeing the abbreviated thread title "My mom Gave me a Jew..." when I log on to the forums.

Istemen Babaciğim / No quiero madre   laugh

« Last Edit: April 23, 2013, 03:22:04 PM by Romaios » Logged
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« Reply #204 on: April 23, 2013, 03:39:24 PM »

I keep seeing the abbreviated thread title "My mom Gave me a Jew..." when I log on to the forums.

Istemen Babaciğim / No quiero madre   laugh


Anthem of the Councils of Toledo!
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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« Reply #205 on: April 23, 2013, 05:49:58 PM »

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.

Apparently, neither do you despite your insistence otherwise.

I have declared it openly to you yet you still want to bare false witness against me.  So who is the one acting like an Orthodox Christian here and who isn't?  I shake the dust from my shoes...Matittyahu 10:14
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« Reply #206 on: April 23, 2013, 10:56:35 PM »

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.

Apparently, neither do you despite your insistence otherwise.

I have declared it openly to you yet you still want to bare false witness against me.  So who is the one acting like an Orthodox Christian here and who isn't?

I'll keep reminding you that the Passover Seder (which has already been celebrated for 2013) celebrates the miracles that freed the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt.  The matins of Good Friday (if you ever decide to attend and see for yourself), celebrated on the night of Holy Thursday, commemorates the betrayal, trial, torture and execution of Jesus Christ.  At the 15th Antiphon, the following is chanted:

"Today is hung upon the Tree, He Who did hang the land in the midst of the waters. A Crown of thorns crowns Him Who is King of Angels. He is wrapped about with the purple of mockery Who wrapped the Heavens with clouds. He received buffetings Who freed Adam in Jordan. He was transfixed with nails Who is the Bridegroom of the Church. He was pierced with a spear Who is the Son of the Virgin. We worship Thy Passion, O Christ. Show also unto us thy glorious Resurrection."

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8432

I shake the dust from my shoes...Matittyahu 10:14

That's your loss.   Sad
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« Reply #207 on: April 24, 2013, 06:57:17 AM »

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.

Apparently, neither do you despite your insistence otherwise.

I have declared it openly to you yet you still want to bare false witness against me.  So who is the one acting like an Orthodox Christian here and who isn't?

I'll keep reminding you that the Passover Seder (which has already been celebrated for 2013) celebrates the miracles that freed the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt.  The matins of Good Friday (if you ever decide to attend and see for yourself), celebrated on the night of Holy Thursday, commemorates the betrayal, trial, torture and execution of Jesus Christ.  At the 15th Antiphon, the following is chanted:

"Today is hung upon the Tree, He Who did hang the land in the midst of the waters. A Crown of thorns crowns Him Who is King of Angels. He is wrapped about with the purple of mockery Who wrapped the Heavens with clouds. He received buffetings Who freed Adam in Jordan. He was transfixed with nails Who is the Bridegroom of the Church. He was pierced with a spear Who is the Son of the Virgin. We worship Thy Passion, O Christ. Show also unto us thy glorious Resurrection."

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8432

I shake the dust from my shoes...Matittyahu 10:14

That's your loss.   Sad

Something you should like... http://www.realjewnews.com/
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« Reply #208 on: April 24, 2013, 08:22:10 AM »

*sigh*

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« Reply #209 on: April 24, 2013, 08:31:40 AM »

I just clicked on that link and my work internet told me I was banned from going to racist websites.

I guess I'll be having a chat w/ management soon wanting to know why I'm going to look at objectionable material.  Angry
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« Reply #210 on: April 24, 2013, 08:42:08 AM »

I just clicked on that link and my work internet told me I was banned from going to racist websites.

I guess I'll be having a chat w/ management soon wanting to know why I'm going to look at objectionable material.  Angry

It's Br. Nathanael.
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« Reply #211 on: April 24, 2013, 02:13:40 PM »

BECAUSE THEY DON'T BELIEVE YESHUA IS THE MESSIAH.

Apparently, neither do you despite your insistence otherwise.

I have declared it openly to you yet you still want to bare false witness against me.  So who is the one acting like an Orthodox Christian here and who isn't?

I'll keep reminding you that the Passover Seder (which has already been celebrated for 2013) celebrates the miracles that freed the Jewish people from slavery in Egypt.  The matins of Good Friday (if you ever decide to attend and see for yourself), celebrated on the night of Holy Thursday, commemorates the betrayal, trial, torture and execution of Jesus Christ.  At the 15th Antiphon, the following is chanted:

"Today is hung upon the Tree, He Who did hang the land in the midst of the waters. A Crown of thorns crowns Him Who is King of Angels. He is wrapped about with the purple of mockery Who wrapped the Heavens with clouds. He received buffetings Who freed Adam in Jordan. He was transfixed with nails Who is the Bridegroom of the Church. He was pierced with a spear Who is the Son of the Virgin. We worship Thy Passion, O Christ. Show also unto us thy glorious Resurrection."

http://www.goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith8432

I shake the dust from my shoes...Matittyahu 10:14

That's your loss.   Sad

Something you should like... http://www.realjewnews.com/

Brother Nathaniel ... Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #212 on: April 26, 2013, 08:22:05 PM »


The Orthodox Church celebrates Pascha on the first Sunday after the full moon of the spring equinox. It can actually be postponed to the next Sunday if it coincides with either Passover or Ramadan.

The Old-calendar paschalion places Easter to the Sunday after the Eastern Orthodox full moon (EOFM) that falls on or after Julian March 21 (which is Gregorian April 3).  The Eastern Orthodox full moon determined from tables drawn up long ago, and is generally around 4 days late.  This year, it is five days late:  your moon is not full until Tuesday, April 30, 2013.

It has nothing to do with the Rabbinic Jewish calendar, and nothing to do with the Islamic calendar.
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« Reply #213 on: May 01, 2013, 10:34:05 AM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.
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« Reply #214 on: May 01, 2013, 12:40:40 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.
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« Reply #215 on: May 01, 2013, 01:32:13 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.
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« Reply #216 on: May 01, 2013, 01:39:56 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father. 

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those? 

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?
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« Reply #217 on: May 01, 2013, 01:50:46 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.
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« Reply #218 on: May 01, 2013, 01:56:00 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!
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« Reply #219 on: May 01, 2013, 02:19:56 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?
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« Reply #220 on: May 01, 2013, 02:22:54 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?

Can you give me an example of what you mean?
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If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.
Marc1152
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« Reply #221 on: May 01, 2013, 03:15:07 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Sure..a faction arose within the Church that condemned the use of Icons. They could make a case directly from scripture ( which nearly all heresies can do). Icons were destroyed, there was violence. Eventually the Church called a Council and decided the matter.. Icons were to be used.

Councils were not called to decide what everyone already knew was true. The opposite is the case. The very spiritual identity of Christ was subject to several theories. Have you not heard of Arius or Nestorius? Councils were called to settle the confusion in a manner blessed by God precisely because it was THE Church itself speaking and coming to a judgement.

The Church has long condemned Judaizing. It is a pernicious heresy.. This would a fine time of year to repent and drop it.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 03:15:52 PM by Marc1152 » Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Yeshua HaDerekh
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Posts: 318



« Reply #222 on: May 01, 2013, 03:22:10 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Sure..a faction arose within the Church that condemned the use of Icons. They could make a case directly from scripture ( which nearly all heresies can do). Icons were destroyed, there was violence. Eventually the Church called a Council and decided the matter.. Icons were to be used.

Councils were not called to decide what everyone already knew was true. The opposite is the case. The very spiritual identity of Christ was subject to several theories. Have you not heard of Arius or Nestorius? Councils were called to settle the confusion in a manner blessed by God precisely because it was THE Church itself speaking and coming to a judgement.

The Church has long condemned Judaizing. It is a pernicious heresy.. This would a fine time of year to repent and drop it.

Again, Icons are not salvatical. They are tools like fasting. Councils were called when what everyone already knew were perverted in some way. The early church knew there was a Trinity, however, some sought to pervert it. What YOU "think" is Judaising is likely not if you understood things.  If I dropped what I believe true I would not be a Christian nor Orthodox...
Logged

If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.
Marc1152
Toumarches
************
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Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Rocor
Posts: 12,502


Probiotic .. Antibiotic


« Reply #223 on: May 01, 2013, 03:34:44 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Sure..a faction arose within the Church that condemned the use of Icons. They could make a case directly from scripture ( which nearly all heresies can do). Icons were destroyed, there was violence. Eventually the Church called a Council and decided the matter.. Icons were to be used.

Councils were not called to decide what everyone already knew was true. The opposite is the case. The very spiritual identity of Christ was subject to several theories. Have you not heard of Arius or Nestorius? Councils were called to settle the confusion in a manner blessed by God precisely because it was THE Church itself speaking and coming to a judgement.

The Church has long condemned Judaizing. It is a pernicious heresy.. This would a fine time of year to repent and drop it.

Again, Icons are not salvatical. They are tools like fasting. Councils were called when what everyone already knew were perverted in some way. The early church knew there was a Trinity, however, some sought to pervert it. What YOU "think" is Judaising is likely not if you understood things.  If I dropped what I believe true I would not be a Christian nor Orthodox...

People were confused about the Spiritual identity of Christ. And many sided with Arius. The Church decided the issue. You reject the Church and decide things for yourself.

Who are you again?

If you dropped your false idea's you say you would not be a Christian.. I rest my case. You have been poisoned by heresy and if torn from it you would lose your faith. That is predictable.
Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm
Yeshua HaDerekh
Elder
*****
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Faith: Eastern Orthodox pre 100AD
Posts: 318



« Reply #224 on: May 01, 2013, 05:53:32 PM »

I'm interested Yeshua in understanding a bit more of where your coming from.  What are your thoughts on the veneration of icons?  Do you feel that is an acceptable practice?  I must say, I've never met a Judaic Orthodox Christian, so I'm interested in understanding how it works, practically speaking.

Worship and veneration are 2 different things. As long as one understands that they are artistic depictions (which ever since time began humans have used to tell stories) and you are showing respect for the person depicted I feel it is fine. I actually have Ethiopian icons here that I am fond off. Yeshua came as a human. However I do not like when I see icons depict The Father.  

Interesting.  Thanks.  Do you follow the dietary and other requirements set forth in the Torah or are you no longer bound by those?  

It is not what goes into the mouth that defiles, but what comes forth from the mouth that defiles.

So do you just follow those requirements that are  within your personal comfort zone?

I worked in a Glut Kosher restaurant for a couple of years... Keeping kosher is rather demanding.


MY comfort zone? Did you not just read what I wrote? Those were Yeshua's words.

Yes, words which you covalently spun to keep yourself from having to do something difficult like keeping kosher.

Oh, I am sorry, I thought you understood what Yeshua meant by that. Were you not paying attention in Sunday school? I have "spun" nothing and you know it. Stop bearing false witness against me.

I see, so you sometimes base you pratices on what the Church has taught and sometimes not.

FYI..The Chuch kept a few dietary practices at first and then eventually let go of those as well..

So how do you decide when to listen to the interpretations and decisions of The Church and when not too? It sounds like a matter of your personal convenience to me.

Like what, fasting days? None of what you are talking about is salvatical so what is your point?

You like the decision of the Church, based of the sayings of The Lord to drop the dietary rules ( most of them, not all). You probably adhere to several doctrines decided by The Church such as the Trinity and the Identiy of Christ as God etc. But you put aside other decisions like the Jewish Feasts and Holy Days are no longer to be followed..


So it seems you are rudderless. It looks like you pick and chose. It looks to me like you have made yourself into an authority when you have no authority to decide such things. It apears like the worst sort of dilettantism.

I am not rudderless at all! Just because Nicea or others "codified" them does not mean they were not followed or believed much earlier! Of course The Trinity was believed in. We DO still follow them, you and I just call them by different names!

Sorry, that is incorrect. These issues were in fact hotly debated. Councils were called precisely because there was a big disagreement over central theological idea's. So when do you follow the Church's decisions and when do you decide for yourself.. ?

Can you give me an example of what you mean?

Sure..a faction arose within the Church that condemned the use of Icons. They could make a case directly from scripture ( which nearly all heresies can do). Icons were destroyed, there was violence. Eventually the Church called a Council and decided the matter.. Icons were to be used.

Councils were not called to decide what everyone already knew was true. The opposite is the case. The very spiritual identity of Christ was subject to several theories. Have you not heard of Arius or Nestorius? Councils were called to settle the confusion in a manner blessed by God precisely because it was THE Church itself speaking and coming to a judgement.

The Church has long condemned Judaizing. It is a pernicious heresy.. This would a fine time of year to repent and drop it.

Again, Icons are not salvatical. They are tools like fasting. Councils were called when what everyone already knew were perverted in some way. The early church knew there was a Trinity, however, some sought to pervert it. What YOU "think" is Judaising is likely not if you understood things.  If I dropped what I believe true I would not be a Christian nor Orthodox...

People were confused about the Spiritual identity of Christ. And many sided with Arius. The Church decided the issue. You reject the Church and decide things for yourself.

Who are you again?

If you dropped your false idea's you say you would not be a Christian.. I rest my case. You have been poisoned by heresy and if torn from it you would lose your faith. That is predictable.

What false ideas? LOL You have yet to show I have any...
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If they hear not Moshe and the Nevi'im, neither will they be persuaded by one that rose from the dead.
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