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Author Topic: My Mom Gave me a Jewish Prayer Shawl...  (Read 7875 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #225 on: May 01, 2013, 10:08:31 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea
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« Reply #226 on: May 02, 2013, 07:12:42 AM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 07:14:27 AM by Yeshua HaDerekh » Logged

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« Reply #227 on: May 02, 2013, 07:20:50 AM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 07:21:03 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #228 on: May 02, 2013, 11:11:27 AM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?
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« Reply #229 on: May 02, 2013, 11:36:39 AM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 11:37:02 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #230 on: May 02, 2013, 11:54:36 AM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
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« Reply #231 on: May 02, 2013, 12:03:03 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?
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« Reply #232 on: May 02, 2013, 12:12:29 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is?

Nobody should.

The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So you know better than St. John Chrysostom? Good to have someone that enlightened on the forum.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 12:12:55 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #233 on: May 02, 2013, 12:12:36 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 
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« Reply #234 on: May 02, 2013, 12:16:17 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 
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« Reply #235 on: May 02, 2013, 12:16:53 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is?

Nobody should.

The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So you know better than St. John Chrysostom? Good to have someone that enlightened on the forum.

It is not a question of knowing or not knowing "more than Chrysostom". Rather it is understanding what he wrote within the context it was written. Some have taken it to extremes like Hitler. Would you say Hitler was following it correctly? Would Chrysostom agree with what Hitler did?
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« Reply #236 on: May 02, 2013, 12:18:19 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 

So who is?
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« Reply #237 on: May 02, 2013, 12:49:02 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 

So who is?

The only reason I'd keep paying on a debt that is already fulfilled would be that I didn't know that the debt was paid off. If I don't get the message saying paid in full, or if I don't understand that the debt is paid then I would keep paying on the debt. However, since I got the message that the debt is paid in full I do not need to keep paying to it.

And as you mentioned earlier, Jesus and the Apostles kept the fasts and feasts. They were Jewish. However, the Council of Jerusalem said that the Gentiles do not need to follow the Jewish customs to become Christians. I have never been Jewish, and my family has never been Jewish (that I know of), so there is no need to for me (or anyone else not Jewish) to follow the Jewish feasts and fasts.
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« Reply #238 on: May 02, 2013, 01:32:21 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 

So who is?

The only reason I'd keep paying on a debt that is already fulfilled would be that I didn't know that the debt was paid off. If I don't get the message saying paid in full, or if I don't understand that the debt is paid then I would keep paying on the debt. However, since I got the message that the debt is paid in full I do not need to keep paying to it.

And as you mentioned earlier, Jesus and the Apostles kept the fasts and feasts. They were Jewish. However, the Council of Jerusalem said that the Gentiles do not need to follow the Jewish customs to become Christians. I have never been Jewish, and my family has never been Jewish (that I know of), so there is no need to for me (or anyone else not Jewish) to follow the Jewish feasts and fasts.

I never said you did.
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« Reply #239 on: May 02, 2013, 01:48:03 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 

So who is?

The only reason I'd keep paying on a debt that is already fulfilled would be that I didn't know that the debt was paid off. If I don't get the message saying paid in full, or if I don't understand that the debt is paid then I would keep paying on the debt. However, since I got the message that the debt is paid in full I do not need to keep paying to it.

And as you mentioned earlier, Jesus and the Apostles kept the fasts and feasts. They were Jewish. However, the Council of Jerusalem said that the Gentiles do not need to follow the Jewish customs to become Christians. I have never been Jewish, and my family has never been Jewish (that I know of), so there is no need to for me (or anyone else not Jewish) to follow the Jewish feasts and fasts.

I never said you did.

I'm not saying that you did say I did. I'm only giving examples, trying to show that there is no reason to keep to the old fasts and feasts since they have already been fulfilled. I think it is important to acknowledge where our faith started from, and I think it is important to remember our roots. But remembering that there was a debt and constantly revisiting that debt is not the same thing.
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« Reply #240 on: May 02, 2013, 01:56:13 PM »

"What is this disease? The festivals of the pitiful and miserable Jews are soon to march upon us one after the other and in quick succession: the feast of Trumpets, the feast of Tabernacles, the fasts. There are many in our ranks who say they think as we do. Yet some of these are going to watch the festivals and others will join the Jews in keeping their feasts and observing their fasts. I wish to drive this perverse custom from the Church right now." -St. John Chrysostom

So Yeshua HaDerekh, here you have it.

So there you have what...? That Christians should not celebrate the Jewish fall festivals?

Exactly. We should not celebrate the Jewish feasts.

So who is? The Jews do. However our own were fulfillments of theirs by Christ. As I have said, we would have no Orthodoxy without them. What Chrysostom tends to do is want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

So if a debt was fulfilled would you still pay on it?

No but I would still have the original note that says paid in full from the bank it was paid from...  Wink
 

Of course you would keep record of the debt, especially if it was paid in full. But you would not still pay on the debt.

Likewise, the old feasts of the Jews were a precursor for our feasts. Theirs showed a debt, ours shows a debt paid in full. There is no need to keep revisiting the debt. 

So who is?

The only reason I'd keep paying on a debt that is already fulfilled would be that I didn't know that the debt was paid off. If I don't get the message saying paid in full, or if I don't understand that the debt is paid then I would keep paying on the debt. However, since I got the message that the debt is paid in full I do not need to keep paying to it.

And as you mentioned earlier, Jesus and the Apostles kept the fasts and feasts. They were Jewish. However, the Council of Jerusalem said that the Gentiles do not need to follow the Jewish customs to become Christians. I have never been Jewish, and my family has never been Jewish (that I know of), so there is no need to for me (or anyone else not Jewish) to follow the Jewish feasts and fasts.

I never said you did.

I'm not saying that you did say I did. I'm only giving examples, trying to show that there is no reason to keep to the old fasts and feasts since they have already been fulfilled. I think it is important to acknowledge where our faith started from, and I think it is important to remember our roots. But remembering that there was a debt and constantly revisiting that debt is not the same thing.

I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.
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« Reply #241 on: May 02, 2013, 02:15:49 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.
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« Reply #242 on: May 02, 2013, 02:33:53 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...
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« Reply #243 on: May 02, 2013, 02:39:07 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...

Where did He command that we follow the Jewish feasts?
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« Reply #244 on: May 02, 2013, 02:52:54 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...

Where did He command that we follow the Jewish feasts?

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...
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« Reply #245 on: May 02, 2013, 03:19:56 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...

Where did He command that we follow the Jewish feasts?

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...

You like to talk about people misreading you, but I think that you do not quite understand.

Some of the feasts that the Church has directly correlate to the Jewish feasts, for a reason! It is to show us that Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant. We do not celebrate the Jewish feasts because they are incomplete. We celebrate the Church's feasts because they are complete.
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« Reply #246 on: May 02, 2013, 07:42:32 PM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...

Where did He command that we follow the Jewish feasts?

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...

You like to talk about people misreading you, but I think that you do not quite understand.

Some of the feasts that the Church has directly correlate to the Jewish feasts, for a reason! It is to show us that Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant. We do not celebrate the Jewish feasts because they are incomplete. We celebrate the Church's feasts because they are complete.

I do understand that and have never said differently. 
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« Reply #247 on: May 02, 2013, 07:55:08 PM »

Dear Yeshua HaDerekh,

Could you please explain to us what you mean by self-identifying your faith as "Eastern Orthodox pre 100AD" and what your opinion is about the faith of the "Eastern Orthodox post 100AD" ?   Perhaps we could understand you better if you clarified these two (related) points in your own words ...
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« Reply #248 on: May 05, 2013, 03:35:52 AM »



I am not revisting that debt, I am honoring the one who paid it since I did not have to.

Then celebrate the feasts that His Church set up in His rememberance, instead of the feasts of those who rejected Him.

I DO what He commanded...

Where did He command that we follow the Jewish feasts?

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...

You like to talk about people misreading you, but I think that you do not quite understand.

Some of the feasts that the Church has directly correlate to the Jewish feasts, for a reason! It is to show us that Christ fulfilled the Old Covenant. We do not celebrate the Jewish feasts because they are incomplete. We celebrate the Church's feasts because they are complete.

I do understand that and have never said differently. 

Christ is Risen!
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« Reply #249 on: May 05, 2013, 07:52:48 AM »

INDEED HE IS RISEN! 
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« Reply #250 on: May 06, 2013, 03:53:19 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 
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« Reply #251 on: May 06, 2013, 07:02:42 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL
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« Reply #252 on: May 06, 2013, 07:11:14 PM »

  Roll Eyes

Lame.
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« Reply #253 on: May 06, 2013, 07:17:47 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL

Can you answer the question posed in Reply #247?   Huh
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« Reply #254 on: May 06, 2013, 08:20:59 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL

Well now you are just shooting from the hip. I am certainly not an Arian.

The real question isnt Judaizing. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a Judaizer or an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about Judaizing and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..

 
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« Reply #255 on: May 07, 2013, 03:10:02 AM »

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...
What do you think about John 4:

21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



In Christianity, perhaps the "New Jerusalem" (mentioned eg. in Revelations) is something different than the earthly one?
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« Reply #256 on: May 07, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL

Well now you are just shooting from the hip. I am certainly not an Arian.

The real question isnt Judaizing. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a Judaizer or an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about Judaizing and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..

 

Just using an example of the same thing YOU are doing to me.

The real question isnt Arianism. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about arianism and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..
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« Reply #257 on: May 07, 2013, 09:41:32 AM »

When He fulfilled them. See I thought we were getting somewhere and now you are trying to go in reverse. Remember...Yom HaBikkurim = Pascha? First Fruits...Paul talks about it? Christ our PASSOVER? Remember, ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...
What do you think about John 4:

21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



In Christianity, perhaps the "New Jerusalem" (mentioned eg. in Revelations) is something different than the earthly one?

Interesting thought, however, Yeshua will have a 1000 year reign here on Earth.
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« Reply #258 on: May 07, 2013, 09:44:31 AM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.
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« Reply #259 on: May 07, 2013, 09:45:59 AM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.

It doesn't.
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« Reply #260 on: May 07, 2013, 09:58:49 AM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.

It doesn't.

You all seem to forget that not everything is "protestant" teaching. Some of these beliefs were debated in the early church. What you are implying is "chiliasm". The church called chiliasm "superstition." Again, some in the church believed this while others did not. You need to understand, just like the 14th is NOT Pascha, chiliasm is directly affiliated with the belief in premilleniamism as well as the pre-tribulational rapture.

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« Reply #261 on: May 07, 2013, 10:19:15 AM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.

It doesn't.

You all seem to forget that not everything is "protestant" teaching. Some of these beliefs were debated in the early church. What you are implying is "chiliasm". The church called chiliasm "superstition." Again, some in the church believed this while others did not. You need to understand, just like the 14th is NOT Pascha, chiliasm is directly affiliated with the belief in premilleniamism as well as the pre-tribulational rapture.



Yet, in the same breath, you say: Interesting thought, however, Yeshua will have a 1000 year reign here on Earth. Care to explain?
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« Reply #262 on: May 07, 2013, 10:25:42 AM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL

Well now you are just shooting from the hip. I am certainly not an Arian.

The real question isnt Judaizing. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a Judaizer or an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about Judaizing and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..

 

Just using an example of the same thing YOU are doing to me.

The real question isnt Arianism. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about arianism and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..


Just using an example of the same thing YOU are doing to me.

Say what?

You are plainly arguing for Judaizing Christianity. If that is not really the case then you probably should say so pretty quickly.
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« Reply #263 on: May 07, 2013, 10:38:28 AM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.

It doesn't.

You all seem to forget that not everything is "protestant" teaching. Some of these beliefs were debated in the early church. What you are implying is "chiliasm". The church called chiliasm "superstition." Again, some in the church believed this while others did not. You need to understand, just like the 14th is NOT Pascha, chiliasm is directly affiliated with the belief in premilleniamism as well as the pre-tribulational rapture.



It is more about a Protestant mind set. That includes a disregard for The Church and lots of picking a choosing and proof texting to suit yourself and your personal preferences.
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« Reply #264 on: May 07, 2013, 11:20:50 AM »

ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...
What do you think about John 4:

21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



In Christianity, perhaps the "New Jerusalem" (mentioned eg. in Revelations) is something different than the earthly one?

Interesting thought, however, Yeshua will have a 1000 year reign here on Earth.
Y.HaDereKh,

Why do you think Jesus contrasts worshipping in Jerusalem with worshipping in spirit?

And don't you think Jesus' contrast of the two forms of worship resemble Revelation 21:22:
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
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« Reply #265 on: May 07, 2013, 12:53:57 PM »

ALL NATIONS will be observing Sukkot in the future! According to the prophet Zechariah, in the messianic era Sukkot will become a universal festival and all Nations will make pilgrimages annually to Jerusalem...
What do you think about John 4:

21. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

23. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.



In Christianity, perhaps the "New Jerusalem" (mentioned eg. in Revelations) is something different than the earthly one?

Interesting thought, however, Yeshua will have a 1000 year reign here on Earth.
Y.HaDereKh,

Why do you think Jesus contrasts worshipping in Jerusalem with worshipping in spirit?

And don't you think Jesus' contrast of the two forms of worship resemble Revelation 21:22:
I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

He was prophecing to her of the destruction of The Temple as well as the area she lived in by the Romans. I do not see the relevence of that with Revelation and Zacheriah.  however, what i find interesting is in Revelation as follows:

“1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

hasatan has not been bound for 1000 years yet. Also, the first resurection did not occur yet.  There is 1000 years between the 1st and the 2nd. It is only AFTER that time when hasatan is loosed that the Gog/Magog war will occur. The beloved city here would be Yerusalem.
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« Reply #266 on: May 07, 2013, 12:56:15 PM »

Judaizing + condemnation of the Church as a heresy = false idea

LOL, really? Looks like the only idea here that is false is YOURS! You are good at accusing yet offer no proof = false witness.

I am not a Protestant. We dont engage is scriptural spitting matches between individuals.. We refer to the authority of the Chruch itself which has been more than clear that Judaizing is a pernicious heresy. Therefore, it is a false teaching without doubt and leads to perdition.

 

I will stop "judaising" when you stop being an Arian.  Remember when someone asks.."have you stopped beating your wife yet"? Same thing you are trying to do to me. Why not just ask me..."have you stopped Judaizing yet"? LOL

Well now you are just shooting from the hip. I am certainly not an Arian.

The real question isnt Judaizing. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a Judaizer or an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about Judaizing and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..

 

Just using an example of the same thing YOU are doing to me.

The real question isnt Arianism. It is the authority of the Church. If you beleive that The Church isnt what it says it is then you can feel free to float around and pick and choose by your personal whim. You may end up a an Arian or a Jehovah's Witness.

People come to Orthodoxy when they study the history of the Church and discover it did not disband or fall away from the True Faith. Once you understand that, then the question of heresy gets easier to deal with because you have 2,000 years of commentary to refer to. You can simply ask what  the Fathers had to say about arianism and discover that it is condemned throughout the Church over long stretches of time by many Fathers and Saints..


Just using an example of the same thing YOU are doing to me.

Say what?

You are plainly arguing for Judaizing Christianity. If that is not really the case then you probably should say so pretty quickly.

I have already...you just do not seem to read anything I write that would discolor your view of me. Understanding doctrine within the original Judaic concept is not "Judaizing"... ie Pascha fulfills Yom HaBikkurim.
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« Reply #267 on: May 07, 2013, 12:57:50 PM »

Isn't that Protestant eschatology?  I was under the impression that the Church does not interpret that as a literal event.

It doesn't.

You all seem to forget that not everything is "protestant" teaching. Some of these beliefs were debated in the early church. What you are implying is "chiliasm". The church called chiliasm "superstition." Again, some in the church believed this while others did not. You need to understand, just like the 14th is NOT Pascha, chiliasm is directly affiliated with the belief in premilleniamism as well as the pre-tribulational rapture.



Yet, in the same breath, you say: Interesting thought, however, Yeshua will have a 1000 year reign here on Earth. Care to explain?

I explain that in the post above. Also, it actually SAYS it.
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« Reply #268 on: May 07, 2013, 12:58:56 PM »

Oh great, now we have chiliasm.
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« Reply #269 on: May 07, 2013, 12:59:29 PM »

Dear Yeshua HaDerekh,

I'm curious to understand the response you are eliciting here.  While you seem to imply it's all their fault, I wonder if they might be legitimately alarmed by something I can only guess at?  I'm not as informed about many things here as others.  You will help us (and me in particular) if you would explain to us what you mean by self-identifying your faith as "Eastern Orthodox pre 100AD" and what your opinion is about the faith of the "Eastern Orthodox post 100AD" ?   Perhaps we could understand you better if you clarified these two (related) points in your own words ...
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