Author Topic: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?  (Read 4793 times)

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Offline biro

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #90 on: February 06, 2013, 07:09:10 PM »
So you say. I have to wait for the Pope's call. Tonight, he gives me the secret coded message about the lizard overlords and the banking cabals.
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

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Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2013, 07:53:49 PM »
Guess I don't know why.

Why do so many people around here wish that CAF still had an "Eastern Christianity Forum"?

Its just easier to discuss certain issues.  Like if one wants to talk about the Divine Liturgy, should there be a differentiation between the one served at a Catholic parish as opposed to an Orthodox one?  The problem is if a conversation becomes Orthodox-centric, it gets moved to the Non-Catholic Forum.

I have to stay on this board, just so you have someone to yell at in Orth.-Cath. D. I mean, what are Roman Catholics for?

Roman Catholics are there to tell Eastern Catholics what they should believe. :D

Maybe in your world.  Not in mine.  And I'm Eastern Catholic.  ;)
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #92 on: February 06, 2013, 08:45:21 PM »
I have to stay on this board, just so you have someone to yell at in Orth.-Cath. D. I mean, what are Roman Catholics for?

Roman Catholics are there to tell Eastern Catholics what they should believe. :D

Then what are Mozarabic Catholics for?
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #93 on: February 06, 2013, 09:26:10 PM »
Guess I don't know why.

Why do so many people around here wish that CAF still had an "Eastern Christianity Forum"?

Its just easier to discuss certain issues.  Like if one wants to talk about the Divine Liturgy, should there be a differentiation between the one served at a Catholic parish as opposed to an Orthodox one?  The problem is if a conversation becomes Orthodox-centric, it gets moved to the Non-Catholic Forum.

I have to stay on this board, just so you have someone to yell at in Orth.-Cath. D. I mean, what are Roman Catholics for?

Roman Catholics are there to tell Eastern Catholics what they should believe. :D

Maybe in your world.  Not in mine.  And I'm Eastern Catholic.  ;)

Not anymore, I've been suspended from that world :P

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #94 on: February 06, 2013, 09:27:02 PM »
I have to stay on this board, just so you have someone to yell at in Orth.-Cath. D. I mean, what are Roman Catholics for?

Roman Catholics are there to tell Eastern Catholics what they should believe. :D

Then what are Mozarabic Catholics for?

To give Roman Catholics another Liturgy to desire  ;D

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #95 on: February 06, 2013, 09:31:48 PM »
I have to stay on this board, just so you have someone to yell at in Orth.-Cath. D. I mean, what are Roman Catholics for?

Roman Catholics are there to tell Eastern Catholics what they should believe. :D

Then what are Mozarabic Catholics for?

A dying relic that Rome couldn't completely stamp out, so Rome eventually left them to their half a dozen churches. Don't you remember the famous trial by fire?

Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #96 on: February 06, 2013, 10:00:01 PM »
Are you kidding? Who doesn't remember it??

(Anybody? I don't want to be the only one.)
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2013, 10:29:22 AM »
Are you kidding? Who doesn't remember it??

(Anybody? I don't want to be the only one.)

Ah, crap!  Another hole in my education exposed  ;D.  Not only do I not remember it, I never knew it in order to forget it  ;D ;D!
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #98 on: February 08, 2013, 05:54:00 PM »
I think the issue here is that Catholics find it hurtful for the Orthodox to say that we do not believe in the same thing.

Sure, it's a big disappointment, but I got used to it about 8 or 9 years ago.

At the moment I'm a trifle more annoyed by the hit-and-run (if you will): you guys love to pontificate stuff like "You either are in communion or not"*, but we Catholics (or, presumably, Anglicans, or Lutherans, or whoever else) had better not "trot out the OO/EO divide" in response.

* Or as Kerdy said two weeks ago, "It [Orthodoxy] is what it is and you either accept it or you don’t." (Three days later he said "It doesn't matter to which you belong (EO/OO), both are Orthodox and neither are in the habit of changing things.")

Actually this discussion on "communion or not" was from CAF.  And I agree.  I mean, is partial communion even communion?  How do you even determine that?  How much similarity is similar enough?  Who sets the guidelines?

I really don't have much to say about the EO/OO.  I don't have much experience with the OO in anything.  But at least for communion, I'm quite firm in my belief that it is an all or nothing thing.  It's like, "do we agree or not?"  How can we say we believe in the same Jesus if we can't agree in all points about Him?  And even if there are 100 points and we only disagree on one, how can we say that we are talking about the same Jesus?

For the record, my own views about C-EO-OO have changed somewhat from 6 or 7 years ago. When I first joined this forum, I basically figured Sure, there are big disagreements between Catholics and EOs, but not much bigger than the disagreements between EOs and OOs. But then over the next year or two I came to see that they are a good deal bigger.

P.S. This isn't very closely related, but I just noticed that the song I'm hearing on Pandora is from an album called "Hallelujah EP".
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline erimos

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #99 on: March 08, 2013, 07:36:29 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

Offline Napoletani

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #100 on: March 13, 2013, 09:38:57 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

We should invade half of the world and convert them by force to be truly universal  ;D
Romania,striga tare sa te aud
Romania,noi suntem Leii din Sud
Si din mormant voi striga,Stiinta e echipa mea
De te nasti aici si cresti,ramai Anti'Bucuresti

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #101 on: March 13, 2013, 11:09:49 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #102 on: March 13, 2013, 11:23:32 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #103 on: March 13, 2013, 11:44:18 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

 ::)  Whatever...(I guess, then, so do you until you are chrismated in the OC.) 
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #104 on: March 13, 2013, 12:08:12 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Half-right. He belongs to the Roman Communion.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2013, 12:13:20 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.
you basing that on extensive research around the world, or just on your prejudice?

Brave words from someone for whom the vast majority of his coreligionists have no idea of the existence of his "sui juris" ecclesial community.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2013, 12:18:27 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct.  

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

 ::)  Whatever...(I guess, then, so do you until you are chrismated in the OC.)  

Nope, by virtue of my being accepted as a Catechumen, I am already a Roman Apostate ;)

SELF ANATHEMA!  ;D
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:18:42 PM by choy »

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #107 on: March 13, 2013, 12:18:51 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Half-right. He belongs to the Roman Communion.

Thank you!
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Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2013, 12:19:18 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Half-right. He belongs to the Roman Communion.

Which does mean he BELONGS to the Roman Church ;)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2013, 12:22:37 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.
you basing that on extensive research around the world, or just on your prejudice?

Brave words from someone for whom the vast majority of his coreligionists have no idea of the existence of his "sui juris" ecclesial community.

We Byzantine Catholics can be quite brave.  The fact that our "...coreligionists have no idea of the existence of..." our "...sui iuris ecclesial community." is irrelevant to how many people who are not Orthodox or do not live in mainly Orthodox countries are aware of the existence of Orthodoxy.  Besides, it's a pretty stupid thing to argue about, imho.
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"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2013, 12:27:14 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Half-right. He belongs to the Roman Communion.

Which does mean he BELONGS to the Roman Church ;)

 ::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2013, 12:31:29 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #112 on: March 13, 2013, 12:37:58 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #113 on: March 13, 2013, 12:44:27 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)

According to Unam Sanctam, you have to belong to the Pope to be saved ;)
As a Catholic, you have to believe in that.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #114 on: March 13, 2013, 12:48:04 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)

According to Unam Sanctam, you have to belong to the Pope to be saved ;)
As a Catholic, you have to believe in that.

I think, at least in my case, it'll take something greater than just "belonging" to the Pope (which, again  ::), I don't have a problem with.)---you know, like a lot of God's Grace and my willingness to accept His gift.



(Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're attempting to accomplish with the constant picking?  If I didn't know better [do I, though?], I might surmise [perish the thought!] that you're attempting to somehow justify your self-admitted apostasy  ;).  But I'm almost certain you're going to tell me I'm wrong about that--which I'm perfectly okay with, btw.  ;))
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 12:52:02 PM by J Michael »
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Offline choy

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #115 on: March 13, 2013, 01:01:54 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)

According to Unam Sanctam, you have to belong to the Pope to be saved ;)
As a Catholic, you have to believe in that.

I think, at least in my case, it'll take something greater than just "belonging" to the Pope (which, again  ::), I don't have a problem with.)---you know, like a lot of God's Grace and my willingness to accept His gift.



(Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're attempting to accomplish with the constant picking?  If I didn't know better [do I, though?], I might surmise [perish the thought!] that you're attempting to somehow justify your self-admitted apostasy  ;).  But I'm almost certain you're going to tell me I'm wrong about that--which I'm perfectly okay with, btw.  ;))

That is all fine and well.  I'm commenting on the insistence of ECs that, "they are not under the Pope, they are in communion with him," and that the Pope doesn't run their Church.  Both false claims.

Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #116 on: March 13, 2013, 01:07:13 PM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)

According to Unam Sanctam, you have to belong to the Pope to be saved ;)
As a Catholic, you have to believe in that.

I think, at least in my case, it'll take something greater than just "belonging" to the Pope (which, again  ::), I don't have a problem with.)---you know, like a lot of God's Grace and my willingness to accept His gift.



(Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're attempting to accomplish with the constant picking?  If I didn't know better [do I, though?], I might surmise [perish the thought!] that you're attempting to somehow justify your self-admitted apostasy  ;).  But I'm almost certain you're going to tell me I'm wrong about that--which I'm perfectly okay with, btw.  ;))

That is all fine and well.  I'm commenting on the insistence of ECs that, "they are not under the Pope, they are in communion with him," and that the Pope doesn't run their Church.  Both false claims.

Have fun.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #117 on: March 13, 2013, 02:14:44 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.
you basing that on extensive research around the world, or just on your prejudice?

Brave words from someone for whom the vast majority of his coreligionists have no idea of the existence of his "sui juris" ecclesial community.

We Byzantine Catholics can be quite brave.
 
Except when it comes to the Roman Curia.

The fact that our "...coreligionists have no idea of the existence of..." our "...sui iuris ecclesial community." is irrelevant to how many people who are not Orthodox or do not live in mainly Orthodox countries are aware of the existence of Orthodoxy.  Besides, it's a pretty stupid thing to argue about, imho.
which is about the same level as worrying about who in the world knows about the Orthodox Church.  Who heard about Our Lord in His lifetime on earth?

A couple of days ago the were interviewing people in New York City about what they thought about the new "Roman pontiff."  And people went into detail their thoughts about the new pope, including one that thought it was cool that he was from the US.  This, in one of the Vatican's largest diocese's in the world, with nearly half of the population at large in the area covered, with a cardinal who is a front runner in the conclave stakes.  Those interviewed included a woman from the Vatican's flock (at least that's what she claimed) who stated she learned about the new pope's election from her parish's facebook.

You might want to worry about what's going on in the depths of that ignorance in the thick of your ecclesial community about that pontifical office you're focused on, before worrying who does or does not know about the Orthodox. Bttw, between the Russian and Greek Orthodox, I'm sure we are comparable with recognition as the sovereign of the Vatican.  Even those who never heard of the Latvian Orthodox Church:
Quote
The Church plays a major role in "The Conversion" episode of the popular American television sitcom Seinfeld. The writer of the episode, Bruce Kirschbaum, later revealed that he was unaware when he wrote it that such a church actually existed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Orthodox
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #118 on: March 13, 2013, 02:33:16 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.

Only someone belonging to the Roman church would insult the Catholicity of the Orthodox Church the way this person has done.

He doesn't "belong to the Roman church".  He is a Byzantine (Eastern) Catholic who is in communion with Rome.  If you take his comments as an insult, I suggest you are hyper-sensitive.  From what I can tell, too, he is correct. 

So he does belong to the Roman Church ;)

Half-right. He belongs to the Roman Communion.

Which does mean he BELONGS to the Roman Church ;)
Oh, now I get it. You don't mean "belongs" = "is a member of".

::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.

Oh that. It's just a birthmark. And I'll thank you not to stare.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #119 on: March 13, 2013, 02:36:51 PM »
P.S.

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends. 

Oh that. It's just a birthmark. And I'll thank you not to stare.

Caution: Simpsons
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Offline J Michael

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2013, 03:00:37 PM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.
you basing that on extensive research around the world, or just on your prejudice?

Brave words from someone for whom the vast majority of his coreligionists have no idea of the existence of his "sui juris" ecclesial community.

We Byzantine Catholics can be quite brave.

Except when it comes to the Roman Curia.

The fact that our "...coreligionists have no idea of the existence of..." our "...sui iuris ecclesial community." is irrelevant to how many people who are not Orthodox or do not live in mainly Orthodox countries are aware of the existence of Orthodoxy.  Besides, it's a pretty stupid thing to argue about, imho.
which is about the same level as worrying about who in the world knows about the Orthodox Church.  Who heard about Our Lord in His lifetime on earth?

A couple of days ago the were interviewing people in New York City about what they thought about the new "Roman pontiff."  And people went into detail their thoughts about the new pope, including one that thought it was cool that he was from the US.  This, in one of the Vatican's largest diocese's in the world, with nearly half of the population at large in the area covered, with a cardinal who is a front runner in the conclave stakes.  Those interviewed included a woman from the Vatican's flock (at least that's what she claimed) who stated she learned about the new pope's election from her parish's facebook.

You might want to worry about what's going on in the depths of that ignorance in the thick of your ecclesial community about that pontifical office you're focused on, before worrying who does or does not know about the Orthodox. Bttw, between the Russian and Greek Orthodox, I'm sure we are comparable with recognition as the sovereign of the Vatican.  Even those who never heard of the Latvian Orthodox Church:
Quote
The Church plays a major role in "The Conversion" episode of the popular American television sitcom Seinfeld. The writer of the episode, Bruce Kirschbaum, later revealed that he was unaware when he wrote it that such a church actually existed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Orthodox

I'll "worry" about what I choose to "worry" about.  My "ecclesial community" Church will manage just fine with or without me and my worries (or yours).  But...thanks for your concern  ;).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 03:24:46 PM by J Michael »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #121 on: March 14, 2013, 10:29:29 AM »
::) ::)  Like I said...WHATEVER...

I am Byzantine Catholic.  I consider my self to be an Eastern Catholic Christian in communion with Rome.  If you or anybody else wants to say that I "belong" to the Roman Church, frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. :-*  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it  :(.)

Even with my short time as an EC, I quickly realized that we all have "Property of the Vatican" stamped on our rear ends.  You are just fooling yourselves if you believe otherwise.  You do not have the same ecclesiology as the Orthodox, ECs are not separate Churches, they are not even separate jurisdictions.  They are under the Roman Curia.  When the Pope summons his bishops, the Patriarchs show up along with other diocesan RC bishops from around the world.  Patriarchs and Major Archbishops are not the equals of the Pope.


Like I said...frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.  :-*  I, for one, do not have a problem with that.  Because, at the end of the day, I belong to God (though I don't always act like it   :(.)

According to Unam Sanctam, you have to belong to the Pope to be saved ;)
As a Catholic, you have to believe in that.

I think, at least in my case, it'll take something greater than just "belonging" to the Pope (which, again  ::), I don't have a problem with.)---you know, like a lot of God's Grace and my willingness to accept His gift.



(Just out of curiosity, what is it that you're attempting to accomplish with the constant picking?  If I didn't know better [do I, though?], I might surmise [perish the thought!] that you're attempting to somehow justify your self-admitted apostasy  ;).  But I'm almost certain you're going to tell me I'm wrong about that--which I'm perfectly okay with, btw.  ;))

That is all fine and well.  I'm commenting on the insistence of ECs that, "they are not under the Pope, they are in communion with him," and that the Pope doesn't run their Church.  Both false claims.

I don't think it's that black-and-white. ECs don't have as much independence as I would like, but still more than WCs -- who are, after all, automatically part of the LC.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Peter J

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Re: Is the Catholic Church Catholic?
« Reply #122 on: March 14, 2013, 11:01:55 AM »
Not exactly sure. I mena, you talk about the Catholic Chruch, just about anybody in the world knows who and what your talking about. But when you bring up Orthododxy, most people who not belong to a particular ethnic group just scratch their heads in confusion. In the sense of UNIVERSAL, the Orthodox Church is about as Catholic as Tesco- it's in a lot of places, but you wouldn't know about unless you either grew up with it or researched it later.
you basing that on extensive research around the world, or just on your prejudice?

Brave words from someone for whom the vast majority of his coreligionists have no idea of the existence of his "sui juris" ecclesial community.

We Byzantine Catholics can be quite brave.

Except when it comes to the Roman Curia.

The fact that our "...coreligionists have no idea of the existence of..." our "...sui iuris ecclesial community." is irrelevant to how many people who are not Orthodox or do not live in mainly Orthodox countries are aware of the existence of Orthodoxy.  Besides, it's a pretty stupid thing to argue about, imho.
which is about the same level as worrying about who in the world knows about the Orthodox Church.  Who heard about Our Lord in His lifetime on earth?

A couple of days ago the were interviewing people in New York City about what they thought about the new "Roman pontiff."  And people went into detail their thoughts about the new pope, including one that thought it was cool that he was from the US. 

I saw some of that. Basically just copycatting Jay Leno's "Jaywalking".
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)