Author Topic: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?  (Read 2434 times)

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Offline jwinch2

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Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« on: February 03, 2013, 03:01:40 PM »
Hello,

I am interested in knowing how many of the Orthodox Churches, and which ones, have a Western Rite.  The ones that I am aware of are the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America as well as the Russian Orthodox Church outside of Russia.  However, this website for example, gives me the impression that there may be more than I am aware of.  http://www.saocwr.org/clergy.html

Thanks in advance.

Peace of Christ,

Jason
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:04:28 PM by jwinch2 »

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 03:15:02 PM »
This looks like a fake one.

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 03:17:11 PM »
This looks like a fake one.

No it is not.  I am genuinely interested in the topic at hand.  I know it probably happens, as it does on pretty much every forum, but this is not one of those cases.

Peace,
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:20:03 PM by jwinch2 »

Offline Alpo

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 03:24:31 PM »
This looks like a fake one.

No it is not.  I am genuinely interested in the topic at hand.  I know it probably happens, as it does on pretty much every forum, but this is not one of those cases.

Peace,

I think Alveus Lacuna refered to the denomination you mentioned and not to you. It indeed looks like a fake one. Here's one list of proper Orthodox WR parishes.

Historically speaking the Church of Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia used to have WR parishes but IIRC they were wiped out by the Second World War.

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 03:28:52 PM »
This looks like a fake one.

No it is not.  I am genuinely interested in the topic at hand.  I know it probably happens, as it does on pretty much every forum, but this is not one of those cases.

Peace,

I think Alveus Lacuna refered to the denomination you mentioned and not to you. It indeed looks like a fake one. Here's one list of proper Orthodox WR parishes.

Historically speaking the Church of Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia used to have WR parishes but IIRC they were wiped out by the Second World War.

Ah, I see.  Thanks for the clarification.  I thought he meant that I was trolling, etc.  No worries.  

So that Parish is a fake from appearances, good to know.  From the link you provided the two I mentioned plus the Romanian Orthodox would be the only three then?  I am a RC who is dipping my toes in the water a bit and am curious what is out there.  

Thanks again,

Jason
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 03:29:13 PM by jwinch2 »

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 03:34:06 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox, British Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Patriarchate is Western Rite.
http://britishorthodox.org/
Most Holy Theotokos, Save Us!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy Upon Me a Sinner!

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 03:48:12 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox, British Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Patriarchate is Western Rite.
http://britishorthodox.org/

Very interesting.  Thank you. 

Offline mike

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 03:55:28 PM »
Historically speaking the Church of Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia used to have WR parishes but IIRC they were wiped out by the Second World War.

Same for Polish.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2013, 04:06:26 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox, British Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Patriarchate is Western Rite.
http://britishorthodox.org/

Very interesting.  Thank you. 

Uhm...no. They use liturgy of St. James and Coptic rite.

Offline Cantor Krishnich

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 04:55:27 PM »
The Oriental Orthodox, British Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of the Coptic Patriarchate is Western Rite.
http://britishorthodox.org/

Very interesting.  Thank you. 

Uhm...no. They use liturgy of St. James and Coptic rite.

According to the videos I've seen, their liturgical rite is Coptic but their chant tradition sounds quiet Western, but I could be wrong.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 05:37:16 PM »
IIRC the British Orthodox members of OC.net have themselves said that they are of Eastern rite and that there's no need for WRO.

Offline Frederic

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 06:26:59 PM »
This church in Paris (France) seems to use the Western rite on certain days. It is part of the Patriarchate of Romania.

http://www.sainte-genevieve-paris.fr/GMrub/accueil.html

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Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 08:04:16 PM »
Historically, these jurisdictions have had Western Rite:

Pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church
Moscow Patriarchate
Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Romanian Orthodox Church
Serbian Orthodox Church
Czechoslovak Orthodox Church
Polish Orthodox Church
Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Alexandrian Patriarchate
The vast majority of Orthodox in the world belong to one of the above jurisdictions.

Jurisdictions which allow Western Rite in the year 2013:
Russian Orthodox Church - MP and ROCOR
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Romanian Orthodox Church
The clear majority of Orthodox in the world belong to one of these four jurisdictions.

"I'm Warned - stay back!"
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 08:04:44 PM by Fr.Aidan »

Offline mike

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 08:09:41 PM »
Pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church
Moscow Patriarchate
Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Romanian Orthodox Church
Serbian Orthodox Church
Czechoslovak Orthodox Church
Polish Orthodox Church
Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Alexandrian Patriarchate
The vast majority of Orthodox in the world belong to one of the above jurisdictions.

Roman Orthodox Church
Church of Constantinople

Quote
Ukrainian Orthodox Church

Really?

Quote
"I'm Warned - stay back!"

Martyr complex?

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 09:02:52 PM »
Martyr simple. But no persecution or suffering. Yet! I'm just enjoying my brief notoriety and milking it for all it's worth... it's a bit egotistical, but really, why not?

Constantinople? I hesitated there. Fr. William Ischi (of New York City, I believe) was briefly with Constantinople, I think, and briefly with Jerusalem, and briefly with ROCOR, and he did WR and Eastern R. at various times, but I didn't know exactly how those times matched with his jurisdictional affiliations.

Some of the Ukrainian Bishops who at certain times were in communion with and concelebrating status with canonical Ukrainian bishops, have sponsored Western Rite. Some of those passed out of canonical status, for which reason I did not include them on the list of current WR jurisdictions.

Roman Orthodox Church - yes! Of course! +1
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:05:35 PM by Fr.Aidan »

Offline mike

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2013, 09:08:08 PM »
why not?

It's annoying.

Quote
Constantinople? I hesitated there. Fr. William Ischi (of New York City, I believe) was briefly with Constantinople, I think, and briefly with Jerusalem, and briefly with ROCOR, and he did WR and Eastern R. at various times, but I didn't know exactly how those times matched with his jurisdictional affiliations.

Amalphion.

Quote
Some of the Ukrainian Bishops who at certain times were in communion with and concelebrating status with canonical Ukrainian bishops, have sponsored Western Rite. Some of those passed out of canonical status, for which reason I did not include them on the list of current WR jurisdictions.

Something more specific?

Offline Fr.Aidan

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2013, 09:52:32 PM »
Amalfion. Indeed. So, we can then list Constantinople and Jerusalem.

At Constantinople there was the Church of St. Mary Deipara of the Amalfitans, and the Western Rite Monastery of Holy Saviour.

At Jerusalem there was the monastery of St. Mary of the Latins which was refurbished in the early 11th century.

The list grows.

As for Ukrainians, I am thinking the jurisdiction headed later by Andrei Prazsky was originally under a bishop Gregory Osiuchuk. At times this jurisdiction concelebrated with the Ukrainians under Constantinople, and it had WR.

Forgive me for the annoyance. Sorry about that.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:53:53 PM by Fr.Aidan »

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2013, 11:54:28 PM »
Historically, these jurisdictions have had Western Rite:

Pre-revolutionary Russian Orthodox Church
Moscow Patriarchate
Russian Orthodox Church Abroad
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Romanian Orthodox Church
Serbian Orthodox Church
Czechoslovak Orthodox Church
Polish Orthodox Church
Ukrainian Orthodox Church
Alexandrian Patriarchate
The vast majority of Orthodox in the world belong to one of the above jurisdictions.

Jurisdictions which allow Western Rite in the year 2013:
Russian Orthodox Church - MP and ROCOR
Antiochian Orthodox Church
Romanian Orthodox Church
The clear majority of Orthodox in the world belong to one of these four jurisdictions.


Thank you. 

Offline Ruprecht

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 12:31:40 AM »
jwinch2: 
    Welcome aboard!  Hope you enjoy your sojourn on the "other side of the fence"!  There are a lot of western rite-type Orthodox-ish churches out there. A long time ago, I had been investigating a Celtic Orthodox Christian Church in Ohio, but found their name on a very useful list:
[ftp]http://aggreen.net/other_orthodox/other.html/ftp]
The list was prepared by someone from the OCA, and does list the Ohio group among many others.  Good stuff that you might find useful.
p.s.: I will PM you re: oblates.      bob.c

Offline jwinch2

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Re: Which Orthodox Churches have and support the Western Rite?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 10:45:24 AM »
jwinch2: 
    Welcome aboard!  Hope you enjoy your sojourn on the "other side of the fence"!  There are a lot of western rite-type Orthodox-ish churches out there. A long time ago, I had been investigating a Celtic Orthodox Christian Church in Ohio, but found their name on a very useful list:
[ftp]http://aggreen.net/other_orthodox/other.html/ftp]
The list was prepared by someone from the OCA, and does list the Ohio group among many others.  Good stuff that you might find useful.
p.s.: I will PM you re: oblates.      bob.c

Thanks for the welcome, and the information.  I look forward to hearing from you vis-a-vie Benedictine Oblates. 

Peace,