Nephi
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« on: February 03, 2013, 12:27:57 AM » |
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I thought I'd like to know what everyone's thoughts are on this video. In it, the Pastor is asked to respond to the common apologetic argument against Protestants that they are divided whereas Roman Catholics or Orthodox (depending on the given argument) are not. He says that, effectively, Protestants are ultimately no more divided than Roman Catholics and Orthodox. He posits that there are "19" streams or division with Orthodoxy, that he equates to the "16" in Roman Catholicism and "21" in Protestantism. Any thoughts? And any idea where he gets these "19" divisions? |
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Kerdy
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 12:37:13 AM » |
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Any thoughts? And any idea where he gets these "19" divisions?
Wikipedia? As to the rest, I have no idea what he is talking about. |
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 12:37:56 AM by Kerdy »
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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Nephi
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 12:44:20 AM » |
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Wikipedia?
As to the rest, I have no idea what he is talking about.
Even if it's from Wikipedia, I just don't understanding if he's talking about the major EO churches, EO + OO churches, or EO + OO + Old Calendarists + Old Believers + etc.? And I just don't see the "apples to apples" to Orthodoxy. Neither with Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. He even lumps the Sedevacantists with the RCC. |
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Kerdy
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 12:47:56 AM » |
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Wikipedia?
As to the rest, I have no idea what he is talking about.
Even if it's from Wikipedia, I just don't understanding if he's talking about the major EO churches, EO + OO churches, or EO + OO + Old Calendarists + Old Believers + etc.? And I just don't see the "apples to apples" to Orthodoxy. Neither with Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. He even lumps the Sedevacantists with the RCC. Wikipedia was my attempt at humor, because its a terrible reference source. I especially liked, being a former Baptist, how he dismissed each independent church as individual and teaching its own thing and tried to lump them all together. |
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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Nephi
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2013, 01:08:28 AM » |
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Wikipedia was my attempt at humor, because its a terrible reference source. I especially liked, being a former Baptist, how he dismissed each independent church as individual and teaching its own thing and tried to lump them all together.
It's interesting that, in order to deny Protestant fragmentation, he seems to understand unity in terms of shared tradition, liturgy, and doctrinal assumptions. He referred to a "practical catholicity" that was jointly expressed (e.g. conferences, literature, music, etc.), which shows visual unity among Protestants. If that's true, then Eastern Catholics are in unity with the EO, OO, etc. |
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 01:09:02 AM by Nephi »
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2013, 01:21:09 AM » |
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I can totally understand why some Protestants might see Orthodoxy as fragmented and off the track. They view the infallible, inerrant, 66-book Bible, and only the Bible, as the foundation of their faith; Orthodoxy doesn't have 66 books (usually), disagrees amongst ourselves as to what the status of the deuterocanonical books are (sometimes), and Orthodox are more willing to admit errancy (at times). We must look very confused, and in some ways just plain wrong, about the most important issue in Christianity.
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Cyrillic
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2013, 06:09:19 AM » |
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Perhaps he's referring to the autocephalous churches but even then 19 would be a wrong number.
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« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 06:09:56 AM by Cyrillic »
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"Ἔπαγε, ἔπαγε, μὴ γὰρ ἴδοι με σιωπῶντα ἥλιος."-Polemon of LaodiceaAll ye self-proclaimed intellectuals, come and read Lucian in the Book Club!
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Kerdy
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2013, 06:11:29 AM » |
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I'm wondering if he is talking about cultural distinctions (Greek, Russian, etc.)
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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leap of faith
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« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2013, 09:08:08 AM » |
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I'm wondering if he is talking about cultural distinctions (Greek, Russian, etc.)
That would be my guess. I am continually hearing and reading of these "denominations" of the Orthodox Church. Of course, that is an opportunity when witnessed firsthand to educate others about Orthodoxy with a smile and simple explanation. The only time it bothers me is when I am unable to directly respond, such as a video or book. Most of my protestant friends and families had never heard of the Orthodox Church until I began to consider converting. (It will be a year ago, on Feb. 11, that I was received into the Church. Glory to God!) Knowing nothing, most will believe anything. |
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Kerdy
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« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2013, 09:29:13 AM » |
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Knowing nothing, most will believe anything.
Wise words and very true. |
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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Nero
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« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2013, 11:09:07 AM » |
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If he's talking about "traditions, common practices, common liturgy, common doctrinal assumptions", then I have no idea how he finds "19 different traditions."
Even if he is grouping Eastern and Oriental Orthodoxy together, and he means Byzantine rite / Slavonic Rite / Coptic Rite / Armenian, I still don't know how he gets 19. And I have absolutely no idea how he gets 16 in Catholicism.
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Michał Kalina
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2013, 11:18:36 AM » |
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There are 15 of the EO and 7 of the OO. Exclude EP and Cyprus (because they are "Greek"), and OCA ("Russian") and you have 19.
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formerly known as mikeDespite being a Polish citizen I am not a Pole.  Long live Belarus! "It's my constitutional right!" |
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Jetavan
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« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2013, 11:28:16 AM » |
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There are 15 of the EO and 7 of the OO. Exclude EP and Cyprus (because they are "Greek"), and OCA ("Russian") and you have 19.
Does that include the Finns? |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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Kerdy
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« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2013, 08:24:42 PM » |
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There are 15 of the EO and 7 of the OO. Exclude EP and Cyprus (because they are "Greek"), and OCA ("Russian") and you have 19.
Does that include the Finns? It includes whatever the fellow wants it to include to support his argument. |
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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