Author Topic: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith  (Read 4953 times)

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Offline benjohn146

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #225 on: February 24, 2017, 12:13:28 PM »
Apostasy is grave matter.

Is converting from Catholicism to Orthodoxy really apostasy?

Yes, if we're talking about 1200s Catholicism.

For RC, yes. There is no salvation outside the RCC according to them.

Ok so the 21st century version of RC is not the same as in the 1200s? Is it a different religion?
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #226 on: February 24, 2017, 12:17:30 PM »
^It's certainly trying.
Just grab them by prayer.


Mor has spoken through George... this is the faith of the fathers!

The Church's bridegroom was never the Byzantine Empire.

Offline PJ26

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #227 on: February 24, 2017, 01:05:15 PM »
Lepanto,

I'm blowing the whole thing up? Really, me, guy on the internet, am blowing the whole thing up?  It's not like four Cardinals presented the pope with a number of doubts regarding the orthodoxy of AL, or various Catholic outlets, including EWTN, are talking about the real possibility of a schism as a result of AL.  It's just me.  OK.  Well, good thing that I, at least, am calling attention to the matter, since it is, as you say, "a serious problem."

But if it is a serious problem, what is the solution?  Just stay RC according to you - trad or mainstream. That, in itself, is kind of an interesting statement since there is such a big difference between the two.  But anyway, what you are advocating, simply put, is denial.  Just keep doing what you're doing.  Nothing to see here.  No!  God gave you the gift of reason and you have an obligation to seek the truth.

AL has exposed clear contradictions in what Catholicism teaches that go to the very heart of what Catholicism says it is.  Even if I'm not divorced and "remarried" those contradictions do effect me, if I am Catholic and they show Catholicism to be something other than what it says it is, i.e. the true church.  You just are unwilling or unable to confront that reality. 

You asked me if I was trying to convince myself.  To be honest, I think you're the one trying to convince yourself.  You say you have an Orthodox wife.  I assume she takes her faith seriously otherwise she would probably just convert to Catholicism and go with you to church for the sake of harmony and convenience.  But she isn't and maybe that's got you wondering.  Maybe that, along with what's going on now, has caused you some doubts.  I mean why come on an Orthodox site and dig in your heals to the degree you are doing?  Toward the end of my journey to Orthodoxy I did something similar.  I went on to Catholic sites, sometimes making the argument as a trad Catholic, sometimes as a defender of the pope - not to deceive mind you, but to put down my ideas, to see what others said, how they reacted, and then try to determine where the truth lied.  I wonder if you aren't doing the same.  Only you know that.

As far as being disobedient, I don't believe anyone has accused you of that.  However, I do think you are in denial.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 01:07:04 PM by PJ26 »

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #228 on: February 24, 2017, 03:35:41 PM »
@PJ 26: This got me thinking.
I wrote a reply, deleted it because it was crap. No more equivocating.
The truth is: You pretty much hit the nail. With all you wrote. Really.
I have learned the hard way that my wife puts her faith first, I come only second.
This hurt and impressed me at the same time.
AL is but a symptom of a larger problem I can't quite grasp.
To be honest: I have no clue what to do. What if Orthodoxy was right after all?
I have no idea what that means. I am confused....

Offline benjohn146

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #229 on: February 24, 2017, 03:45:20 PM »
@PJ 26: This got me thinking.
I wrote a reply, deleted it because it was crap. No more equivocating.
The truth is: You pretty much hit the nail. With all you wrote. Really.
I have learned the hard way that my wife puts her faith first, I come only second.
This hurt and impressed me at the same time.
AL is but a symptom of a larger problem I can't quite grasp.
To be honest: I have no clue what to do. What if Orthodoxy was right after all?
I have no idea what that means. I am confused....

Perhaps that following your wife to church this week end, might shed more light on your confusion ;)
St Makarios, pray for us.

Offline PJ26

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #230 on: February 24, 2017, 04:10:22 PM »
Lepanto,

Well first, it took a lot of courage to write what you wrote.  So, you deserve a lot of respect just for that.

Second, stop equivocating, stop lying to yourself.  Have an open mind and heart.  Pray.  Read.  Search for the truth wherever that leads.  If it affirms you in your Catholicism, ok, but you owe it to yourself, and perhaps to your wife, to make the journey.  And if you take your faith seriously, you just can't ignore everything that is going on with AL right now.  You just can't.

I wish I could bottle everything I went through in my conversion, all the prayer, the reading, the tears, the fights with my wife - seven years from beginning to end - and say "Here you go buddy.  Here's the answer.  Orthodoxy.  Trust me."  Give you a big hug and send you on your way.  And if you want to accept that you can, but maybe you need to go through the struggle for yourself.  I don't know.

My wife and I went through a pretty rough time.  About two years.  I honestly didn't think we would make it, but we did.  Every marriage is its own little world, but if you really love each other and are committed to making it work, you will succeed.  But for the record, I'm with your wife - the Faith comes first.  If my wife had said "stay Catholic or it's over" I still would have become Orthodox.  That's how much I believe in the truth of Orthodoxy.  But again that is something you/the two of you need to work out.

We seem to be in similar situations on the same road, maybe you're at the beginning and I'm at the end.  If there is any advice I can give, just let me know.  PM me or whatever.  And be assured of my prayers for you.

:)

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #231 on: February 24, 2017, 05:35:58 PM »
Thanks!
Seems I have to do lots thinking, guess also have to do more reading.
Likely I will ask quite some questions here.
Let us see. I truly don't know right now.
I only know it cannot go on like this. It is constantly nagging at me.
AL... plain crazy that it should trigger such things.

« Last Edit: February 24, 2017, 05:43:41 PM by Lepanto »

Offline petros22

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #232 on: February 25, 2017, 10:54:25 AM »
Quote
I only know it cannot go on like this. It is constantly nagging at me.

I know what you mean. This whole thing is gnawing at my soul. But there are probably no easy answers here.
Almighty God, unto whom all hearts be open, all desires known, and from whom no secretes are hid: cleanse the thoughts of our hearts by the inspiration of thy holy spirit, that we may perfectly love thee, and worthily magnify thy holy name: through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #233 on: February 26, 2017, 08:14:04 PM »
Quote
I only know it cannot go on like this. It is constantly nagging at me.

I know what you mean. This whole thing is gnawing at my soul. But there are probably no easy answers here.
The easy answer is the Church has gone through worse heresies and challenges than this and She still here.

This is nothing new, there were times like during the Arian heresy, there was only a few true believers  that held the Faith together.

We will survive this as well. the gates of hell shall not prevail!

« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 08:14:45 PM by Charles Martel »
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline tcolon90

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #234 on: February 26, 2017, 08:44:24 PM »
Quote
I only know it cannot go on like this. It is constantly nagging at me.

I know what you mean. This whole thing is gnawing at my soul. But there are probably no easy answers here.
The easy answer is the Church has gone through worse heresies and challenges than this and She still here.

This is nothing new, there were times like during the Arian heresy, there was only a few true believers  that held the Faith together.

We will survive this as well. the gates of hell shall not prevail!

They also didn't have a bloated papal system to complicate things either, which is the issue underlying this whole thing.
"For where the body is, the eagles will gather."

Offline J Michael

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Re: Amoris Laetitia and My Crisis of Faith
« Reply #235 on: February 28, 2017, 04:24:10 PM »
^It's certainly trying.

"Trying" as in attempting to be a different religion?  Or "trying" as in "difficult or annoying; hard to endure"?  Or both? :laugh:
"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)