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Author Topic: Latin Church= Catholic Church? Why?  (Read 542 times) Average Rating: 0
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walter1234
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« on: January 31, 2013, 06:11:21 AM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 06:12:19 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2013, 06:22:26 AM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.

James
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2013, 07:10:52 AM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.
James
You mean the Latin Fathers use the Latin language rather than Greek .Due to language barrie, even the Church openly condemned the Latin Fathers , they still cannot understand ?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 07:11:17 AM by walter1234 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 07:33:07 AM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.
James
You mean the Latin Fathers use the Latin language rather than Greek .Due to language barrie, even the Church openly condemned the Latin Fathers , they still cannot understand ?

No I mean that because the western Fathers were writing in Latin and the eastern ones in Greek and neither could necessarily understand the other, it was hard to see if errors were creeping in. If someone could only read and write Latin but not Greek (or vice versa) how they could compare the two? This is part of the reason why some of the things we now see as errors in the Latin Fathers were not necessarily seen at the time. There were a few figures who straddled the divide, however, such as St. John Cassian, who opposed some of the more extreme tendencies in St. Augustine of Hippo's theology.

James

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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 12:04:31 PM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

I'm surprised that you've heard anyone use "the Latin Church" to mean the Catholic Church. The usual confusion that I encounter is between church and rite.

(Thus people will say things like "the 22 Eastern Catholic Rites" or "the Melkite Rite" or "the Roman Church" or "the Latin Rite" etc. all of which are wrong.)
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.
James
You mean the Latin Fathers use the Latin language rather than Greek .Due to language barrie, even the Church openly condemned the Latin Fathers , they still cannot understand ?

No I mean that because the western Fathers were writing in Latin and the eastern ones in Greek and neither could necessarily understand the other, it was hard to see if errors were creeping in. If someone could only read and write Latin but not Greek (or vice versa) how they could compare the two? This is part of the reason why some of the things we now see as errors in the Latin Fathers were not necessarily seen at the time. There were a few figures who straddled the divide, however, such as St. John Cassian, who opposed some of the more extreme tendencies in St. Augustine of Hippo's theology.

James

There exists correspondence between Eastern and Western Fathers. St. Basil and St. Ambrose wrote eachother letters for example.
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

I'm surprised that you've heard anyone use "the Latin Church" to mean the Catholic Church. The usual confusion that I encounter is between church and rite.

(Thus people will say things like "the 22 Eastern Catholic Rites" or "the Melkite Rite" or "the Roman Church" or "the Latin Rite" etc. all of which are wrong.)

It really annoys you, doesn't it?
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 03:45:19 PM »

What about some historical RC texts that refer the Roman church as the mother of all churches?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 03:45:35 PM by Alpo » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 04:46:28 PM »

I'm surprised that you've heard anyone use "the Latin Church" to mean the Catholic Church. The usual confusion that I encounter is between church and rite.

(Thus people will say things like "the 22 Eastern Catholic Rites" or "the Melkite Rite" or "the Roman Church" or "the Latin Rite" etc. all of which are wrong.)

It really annoys you, doesn't it?

Is that a good reason to do it?  Huh
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« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 04:50:34 PM »

What about some historical RC texts that refer the Roman church as the mother of all churches?

Good question, I'm not sure. I've heard of that idea, but I'm a little rusty on it. Is it considered an official teaching?
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 04:50:39 PM »

I'm surprised that you've heard anyone use "the Latin Church" to mean the Catholic Church. The usual confusion that I encounter is between church and rite.

(Thus people will say things like "the 22 Eastern Catholic Rites" or "the Melkite Rite" or "the Roman Church" or "the Latin Rite" etc. all of which are wrong.)

It really annoys you, doesn't it?

Is that a good reason to do it?  Huh

No. I just notice that you correct people often about this.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:50:51 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2013, 04:53:45 PM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.
James
You mean the Latin Fathers use the Latin language rather than Greek .Due to language barrie, even the Church openly condemned the Latin Fathers , they still cannot understand ?

No I mean that because the western Fathers were writing in Latin and the eastern ones in Greek and neither could necessarily understand the other, it was hard to see if errors were creeping in. If someone could only read and write Latin but not Greek (or vice versa) how they could compare the two? This is part of the reason why some of the things we now see as errors in the Latin Fathers were not necessarily seen at the time. There were a few figures who straddled the divide, however, such as St. John Cassian, who opposed some of the more extreme tendencies in St. Augustine of Hippo's theology.

James

There exists correspondence between Eastern and Western Fathers. St. Basil and St. Ambrose wrote eachother letters for example.

That's neat. Are St. Basil's epistles to St. Ambrose included in the Schaff translation which is all over the internet?
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 05:03:13 PM »

What about some historical RC texts that refer the Roman church as the mother of all churches?

Good question, I'm not sure. I've heard of that idea, but I'm a little rusty on it. Is it considered an official teaching?
Yes, in the Vatican.  It's officially heresy among the Orthodox.

btw, the Romanian Orthodox are Latin.
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« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2013, 05:57:27 PM »

What about some historical RC texts that refer the Roman church as the mother of all churches?

Good question, I'm not sure. I've heard of that idea, but I'm a little rusty on it. Is it considered an official teaching?

I forgot which Papal Bull this came from, but it does exist and has been a reoccuring theme in the West from around the 1200s until just after Vatican I when Orientalium Dignitas came out and the tone of Rome changed from declaring Rome to be above all Churches to affirming the equal dignity of all Churches.
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« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2013, 06:20:53 PM »

btw, the Romanian Orthodox are Latin.

That's fine with me. They're Latin, they just aren't Latin Catholic. Just as you're Eastern, even though you aren't Eastern Catholic.
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« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2013, 07:05:37 PM »

btw, the Romanian Orthodox are Latin.

That's fine with me. They're Latin, they just aren't Latin Catholic. Just as you're Eastern, even though you aren't Eastern Catholic.
We are the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church. Not the Latin Ultramontanist knock off.
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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2013, 07:17:41 PM »

btw, the Romanian Orthodox are Latin.

That's fine with me. They're Latin, they just aren't Latin Catholic. Just as you're Eastern, even though you aren't Eastern Catholic.
We are the One, Holy, CATHOLIC and Apostolic Church. Not the Latin Ultramontanist knock off.

Well, they beat us to the trademark registration office to it.
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« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2013, 03:29:12 AM »


That's neat. Are St. Basil's epistles to St. Ambrose included in the Schaff translation which is all over the internet?

Yes.
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« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2013, 04:26:45 AM »

Byzantium was also, of course, "Roman" no less than the Italian peninsula. Constantinople, as everyone will know, became the capital of the Roman empire; old Rome was for a time a sort of rural backwaters with reduced population living in the ruins of what remained of the city.

Some Orthodox like Fr. John Romanidies insist the Orthodox are the true Romans and do not really like to refer to Roman Catholics as Romans or Catholics. The Frankish king Charlemagne only "became" a Roman emperor because the then pope -in the first act of its kind- anointed him as such. According to Fr. John Romanidies admittedly controversial account the Franks killed executed most of the Orthodox bishops, installed Frankish military leaders as the new bishops, made serfs of the Orthodox populace, and within a couple of centuries secured a Frankish papacy http://www.romanity.org/cont.htm  e.g. Fr. John Romanidies section 3. Franks, Romans, Feudalism, and Doctrine. Without controversy (i.e. as one can learn from any major contemporary historian) it was especially during his reign that unprecedented animosity (e.g. replacement of rudeness for former respectful court-language in official correspondence from the West) developed in the West. It was also in Charlemagne's court that the Filioque was given an extreme emphasis. During the rule of the Franks we find a sudden upsurge in specifically racial animosity -anti-Greek/anti-Byzantine- among the Franks, as you can also read in R. W. Southern, Western Society and the Church in the Middle Ages  (before Charlemagne it was common to find popes of Rome with Greek names). The Frankish intellectuals -they imported salaried intellectuals from all over the world to work on religious historiography and theology- also set a number of specific agendas in terms of scholastic and legal takes on theological themes that continued to set the tone and content of theology throughout the middle ages in the West. Everyone mostly knows of the proliferation of forged letters, decrees, donations, histories, etc. to bolster Western claims which appeared at a near exponential rate in the West beginning after this time.

Latin can and often is used in the phrase "Latin Catholicism" in the sense of Latium, i.e. ancient Rome without any sense of disparagement whatsoever in mind, though, and a contemporary Roman Catholic shouldn't, I think, assume the worst when the phrase is used.




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« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2013, 05:00:43 AM »

Why Catholic Church is also called as Latin Church?

Which region does the word ' Latin ' refer to?  

Latin is the language spoken by the Romans. Whereas in the eastern Roman empire, the lingua franca was more Greek, in the west they tended to speak Latin. This is why the eastern Church Fathers are also known as Greek Fathers (they wrote in Greek) and the western ones as Latin Fathers. It also partly explains some of the questions you had in another thread about errors in the Latin Fathers that were never condemned. There was a language barrier that didn't help such matters.
James
You mean the Latin Fathers use the Latin language rather than Greek .Due to language barrie, even the Church openly condemned the Latin Fathers , they still cannot understand ?

No I mean that because the western Fathers were writing in Latin and the eastern ones in Greek and neither could necessarily understand the other, it was hard to see if errors were creeping in. If someone could only read and write Latin but not Greek (or vice versa) how they could compare the two? This is part of the reason why some of the things we now see as errors in the Latin Fathers were not necessarily seen at the time. There were a few figures who straddled the divide, however, such as St. John Cassian, who opposed some of the more extreme tendencies in St. Augustine of Hippo's theology.

James

There exists correspondence between Eastern and Western Fathers. St. Basil and St. Ambrose wrote eachother letters for example.

I never said there weren't. In fact I said that there were some figures who straddled the divide and gave St. John Cassian as an example. None of that makes any difference to the point I was making which is that the language barrier played some part in the fact that any errors in a Latin Father's works might not have been noticed in the Greek speaking east (and in any case this was an aside which was made in relation to another of Walter's queries in a different thread). St. Augustine of Hippo's writings, for instance, were not translated into Greek until hundreds of years after his death. How could that not affect the reception of his theology in the east?

James
« Last Edit: February 01, 2013, 05:01:59 AM by jmbejdl » Logged

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