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Question: Do you believe that the acount of genesis in the Old testament should be taken literally?
Yes - 53 (15.7%)
No - 129 (38.2%)
both metaphorically and literally - 156 (46.2%)
Total Voters: 338

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Author Topic: Creationism, Evolution, and Orthodoxy  (Read 328974 times) Average Rating: 0
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livefreeordie
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« Reply #630 on: June 06, 2008, 10:36:26 PM »

Yes, yes, yes...homo sapiens are social animals, they want to be loved and accepted because it ultimately helps form societies which are beneficial for survival and procreation from an evolutionary perspective. Religion is simply a misplaced attempt to pursue something that truly is good, social behaviour.

Considering this is an Orthodox Christian board, yikes Shocked religion!, it would seem your continued and prodigious participation here might be explained by a wide variety of interesting reasons but my best guesses would be, 1) you've made us part of your GIC social experimentation institute, playing with monkees, I mean homo sapiens, like me must be fun after all Wink, 2) it's an easy way to spend days, (and looking at your posting record I mean days!), venting out at the "mean, ignorant religious type of people who scarred me and continue to scar society", or 3) you haven't completely lost your faith and you keep finding yourself dragged back in into the muck of "fairy tale religion" you abhor.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 10:45:59 PM by livefreeordie » Logged
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« Reply #631 on: June 06, 2008, 10:45:53 PM »

Actually, the Schrödinger's cat metaphor is used to describe a principle of quantum mechanics, so to talk about the former is to talk about the latter.
You have to look beyond that. It's actually stating that one can not prove that quantum mechanics can prove anything. because one can never physically observe it. Wink
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« Reply #632 on: June 06, 2008, 10:47:01 PM »

Considering this is an Orthodox Christian board, yikes Shocked religion!, it would seem your continued and prodigious participation here might be explained by a wide variety of interesting reasons but my best guesses would be, 1) you've made us part of your GIC social experimentation institute, playing with monkees, I mean homo sapiens, like me must be fun after all Wink, 2) it's an easy way to spend days, (and looking at your posting record I mean days!), venting out at the "mean, ignorant religious type of people who scarred me and continue to scar society", or 3) you haven't completely lost your faith and you keep finding yourself dragged back in into the muck of "fairy tale religion" you abhor.

1 and 2 pretty much hit the nail on the head...not so much with number 3. Wink
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« Reply #633 on: June 06, 2008, 11:19:50 PM »

1 and 2 pretty much hit the nail on the head...not so much with number 3. Wink

If that's true you need to find some new toys, experimenting with us mice while carrying out intellectual vendettas against groups of people based on personal anger could make you very grumpy! Wink They might not be as much fun though.  Wink Wink
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« Reply #634 on: June 06, 2008, 11:54:39 PM »

If that's true you need to find some new toys, experimenting with us mice while carrying out intellectual vendettas against groups of people based on personal anger could make you very grumpy! Wink

Don't worry, I already am...I just need someone to blame it on. Wink

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They might not be as much fun though.  Wink Wink

Probably not, this site gives a pretty good mix of reasonable people and complete nut cases...most just have one or the other.
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« Reply #635 on: June 07, 2008, 12:02:23 AM »

Don't worry, I already am...I just need someone to blame it on. Wink

Probably not, this site gives a pretty good mix of reasonable people and complete nut cases...most just have one or the other.

You should create an alter board ego, SouthernIsChristian.  I'd pay money to watch GIC and SIC go at it! Wink It would take your experiment and play time to a whole other level.
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« Reply #636 on: June 07, 2008, 06:14:16 AM »

Isn't this the argument heretics use to deny the distinction between the Divine Essence and the Divine Energies?

Yes it was.

Did St. Gregory respond by saying God is complex?

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One Essence, three Hypostases, the Second of which is One Prosopon and two Ousia in one Hypostasis and is homoousious with the First and Second Hypostases.
Yeah, simple aint it? Cheesy

Why yes.  We just admit our humble selves cannot understand it, and in silence worship the incomprehensible, as a god comprehensible to finite man cannot be the infinite God.
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« Reply #637 on: June 07, 2008, 06:22:48 AM »

Yes, yes, yes...homo sapiens are social animals, they want to be loved and accepted because it ultimately helps form societies which are beneficial for survival and procreation from an evolutionary perspective. Religion is simply a misplaced attempt to pursue something that truly is good, social behaviour.

You are avoiding the thrust of LiveFree's comment.  Telling.


Heros? Heros are for religions, you can't have Buddhism without Buddha, you can't have Islam without Mohammed, you can't have Christianity without Jesus.

I agree with all of your assessments here, but have to tell you the Muslim possibly, the Buddhist definitely, would not.  The source documents of early Isalm would contradict your Muhammad>Islam: they claim, somewhat like what you claim for science, that he taught only what was already there.  Even Mahayana Buddhism does not claim any special status, ontologically speaking, to Buddha: he did what all of us are supposed and can do (so they say).

Yes, no Jesus, no Christianity, no matter how much Liberal Protestantism teaches otherwise.

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But with science, it's the idea that is significant
Yes, that's how Newton felt about Leibnitz over calculus, and used his position to cast the latter into obscurity.  Mr. Enlightenment himself, Voltaire, helped him do it.

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...if Pascal hadn't made his discoveries, someone else would no doubt have...

...and if Ptolemy hadn't made his discoveries, someone else would no doubt have...

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he was the first to see something, but by no means the only person in history capable of doing so; even without him science would have advanced. In fact, religion has long been the bane of science and human advancement, even in great minds.

sanitzing again.

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Pythagoras had an absurd religious adversion to irrational numbers, had he simply focused on the mathematics and forgot about the philosophical non-sense who knows how much further he could have pushed the boundaries of mathematical knowledge?


Yes, maybe we could have developed nuclear weapons by the dark ages.

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Likewise with Pascal, had he not been such a fool as to abandon the pursuit of science for such useless trivia as religion and philosophy perhaps he could have made even greater contributions to science, instead the opium of masses stole from science and human progress a few precious years of his research.


Pythagoras only got involved with numbers because of his religious beliefs.  Otherwise he could have just as well lived his life in obscurity.  In other words, no religion, no math, so no, he would have not pushed any boundary in math anywhere.

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Religion can be the bane and humiliation of great men, but never their glory.
As Pythagoras shows, it is what makes them great men in the first place.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 06:48:38 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #638 on: June 07, 2008, 11:15:16 AM »

You are avoiding the thrust of LiveFree's comment.  Telling.

I was explaining his yearning in his heart to him, that he has no doubt experienced...perhaps if he realizes what it is he can forego the fake solutoin (religion) and focus on the real thing, though probably not.

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I agree with all of your assessments here, but have to tell you the Muslim possibly, the Buddhist definitely, would not.  The source documents of early Isalm would contradict your Muhammad>Islam: they claim, somewhat like what you claim for science, that he taught only what was already there.  Even Mahayana Buddhism does not claim any special status, ontologically speaking, to Buddha: he did what all of us are supposed and can do (so they say).

But religion is not an absolute truth, it's a social construct and if any two people develop it the results will in all likelihood be different. So perhaps there may be a religion derived from the culture of the middle east that has some (potentially strong) parallels to Islam without Mohammed, but it's likely that much of the religion would differ.

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Yes, no Jesus, no Christianity, no matter how much Liberal Protestantism teaches otherwise.

No, but we might very well have ended up with something quite similar based on one of the other of the hundreds of Messiahs running around at the time...we'd still have the virgin birth, death, resurrection paradigm but I'm sure there'd be various details that differed and the praxis may have developed quite differently.

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Yes, that's how Newton felt about Leibnitz over calculus, and used his position to cast the latter into obscurity.  Mr. Enlightenment himself, Voltaire, helped him do it.

And, in the end, we still have Calculus and that's ultimately all that really matters.

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Yes, maybe we could have developed nuclear weapons by the dark ages.

And if on account of this scientific and rational thought we had gotten rid of religion by the dark ages, well, first of all they wouldn't have been so dark and, secondly, the world would probably be perfectly safe with them...as it is today.

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Pythagoras only got involved with numbers because of his religious beliefs.  Otherwise he could have just as well lived his life in obscurity.  In other words, no religion, no math, so no, he would have not pushed any boundary in math anywhere.

Actually, most sources would say that he got involved because of the influence Thales of Miletus had upon him. He studied mathematics for its own sake and made a religion out of it, a religion that resulted from his mathematics, not that caused it.

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As Pythagoras shows, it is what makes them great men in the first place.

He was great because he studied mathematics, his attempt to dogmatize was his weakness.
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« Reply #639 on: June 07, 2008, 11:24:15 AM »

Wait, forgive me but I am very confused... Greekis, are you a Christian or is that just part of your name? Your post have confused me as to what you believe. Forgive me if you are, but from what i've read, it seems you believe that religion is just entirely made by man and God isn't really the type of God that Orthodoxy and the Bible has said that he is... Correct me if I'm wrong please.
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« Reply #640 on: June 07, 2008, 11:46:17 AM »

Well, according to his profile, his faith is in mathematics, and I'd say that's pretty accurate from what I've read of his posts. GIC could probably explain it better.
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« Reply #641 on: June 07, 2008, 11:49:01 AM »

I was explaining his yearning in his heart to him, that he has no doubt experienced...perhaps if he realizes what it is he can forego the fake solutoin (religion) and focus on the real thing, though probably not.

The nihilist says something is real. Interesting.

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But religion is not an absolute truth,


absolutely sure of that?

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it's a social construct and if any two people develop it the results will in all likelihood be different. So perhaps there may be a religion derived from the culture of the middle east that has some (potentially strong) parallels to Islam without Mohammed, but it's likely that much of the religion would differ.
Actually Zoroastrianism, developed in the culture of the Middle East, parallels Islam in many ways, with little difference except details (Zoroastrians do ablution with bull urine, the Muslims with water) although shares its origins with Hinduism, which is a family of dharmic religions in India.

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No, but we might very well have ended up with something quite similar based on one of the other of the hundreds of Messiahs running around at the time...we'd still have the virgin birth, death, resurrection paradigm but I'm sure there'd be various details that differed and the praxis may have developed quite differently.

actually as none of those hundreds of messiahs running around claimed a virgin birth, and none of their followers claimed a resurrection, I guess not.

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And, in the end, we still have Calculus and that's ultimately all that really matters.

hell bent on repeating the lessons of history, are we?

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And if on account of this scientific and rational thought we had gotten rid of religion by the dark ages, well, first of all they wouldn't have been so dark and, secondly, the world would probably be perfectly safe with them...as it is today.


then why the worry if Saddam got them (btw, not a believer).

Funny, the only places not dark (in the West that is) were the bastions of religions (monestaries, the Vatican, etc.)

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Actually, most sources would say that he got involved because of the influence Thales of Miletus had upon him. He studied mathematics for its own sake and made a religion out of it, a religion that resulted from his mathematics, not that caused it.

Thales, the one who, searching for a universal substance of mind, stated that water is the principle of all things; and that God is that Mind which shaped and created all things from water?  You've put the cart before the horse yet again.

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He was great because he studied mathematics, his attempt to dogmatize was his weakness.

If he didn't attempt to dogmatize, he wouldn't have studied mathematics.

Wait, forgive me but I am very confused...

No, you're not the one confused. Greeki will denounce the Orthodox Church as a delusion made up while at the same time defending the divine right of the EP.

Well, according to his profile, his faith is in mathematics, and I'd say that's pretty accurate from what I've read of his posts. GIC could probably explain it better.

doubt it.
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« Reply #642 on: June 07, 2008, 12:42:53 PM »

I was explaining his yearning in his heart to him, that he has no doubt experienced...perhaps if he realizes what it is he can forego the fake solutoin (religion) and focus on the real thing, though probably not.

Did you intend on providing me with such humour today?! Wink  You can somehow understand and explain the yearning in my heart and I imagine you think any silly "christian", yet you can't get over the "pain" in your own heart from the "brain washing" you seem to have been subjected to by all the poor ignorant religious people in your own life. Funny how you can "understand" and "explain" everyone else's heart and intentions via your "GIC" religion, yet this same insight doesn't allow you to escape the pain, frustration, and black hole of your own. Christ didn't come to explain quantum physics or biological evolution.  Christ can heal our hearts and help us explain and understand the yearnings of it.  If you don't believe that fine, but I would hope you realize that the more you play out your psychological games and experiments with us "christians" the more evidence you provide for the necessity of Christ, we need him to heal our hearts.  "Mathematics" as I'm sure you've found out, has no equation for that. But thanks for being a nice case study! Wink
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« Reply #643 on: June 07, 2008, 07:25:59 PM »

Did you intend on providing me with such humour today?! Wink  You can somehow understand and explain the yearning in my heart and I imagine you think any silly "christian", yet you can't get over the "pain" in your own heart from the "brain washing" you seem to have been subjected to by all the poor ignorant religious people in your own life. Funny how you can "understand" and "explain" everyone else's heart and intentions via your "GIC" religion, yet this same insight doesn't allow you to escape the pain, frustration, and black hole of your own. Christ didn't come to explain quantum physics or biological evolution.  Christ can heal our hearts and help us explain and understand the yearnings of it.  If you don't believe that fine, but I would hope you realize that the more you play out your psychological games and experiments with us "christians" the more evidence you provide for the necessity of Christ, we need him to heal our hearts.  "Mathematics" as I'm sure you've found out, has no equation for that. But thanks for being a nice case study! Wink

The human mind is nothing but a biochemical computer, it can be changed by changing chemical balances, adjusting external stimuli, or even altering the neural pathways...but it certainly doesn't require some metaphysical presence. It's a physical machine changed by physical things. That is what you are, it may not be what you want to be, you may wish there was something beyond it, but that's just reality, it's good or bad, it's just true.
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« Reply #644 on: June 07, 2008, 07:53:48 PM »

GIC, are you a Christian (Trinitarian/Creed) or are you not one? No offence intended, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.
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« Reply #645 on: June 07, 2008, 08:06:26 PM »

The human mind is nothing but a biochemical computer, it can be changed by changing chemical balances, adjusting external stimuli, or even altering the neural pathways...but it certainly doesn't require some metaphysical presence. It's a physical machine changed by physical things. That is what you are, it may not be what you want to be, you may wish there was something beyond it, but that's just reality, it's good or bad, it's just true.

Ah, pooor Greeki, the search for meaninglessness continues....
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« Reply #646 on: June 07, 2008, 08:12:48 PM »

GIC, are you a Christian (Trinitarian/Creed) or are you not one? No offence intended, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

While I don't take issue with Christian High Theology (Christian Praxis and Moral Theology is another matter entirely), on a theoretical level I would submit that it's at least possible, I don't think that the philosophical constructs are truly necessary...I would tend towards the view of a simpler understanding of the concept of a 'deity', namely mathematical consistency.
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« Reply #647 on: June 07, 2008, 08:13:56 PM »

Can't you give a straight answer?
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« Reply #648 on: June 07, 2008, 08:14:10 PM »

Ah, pooor Greeki, the search for meaninglessness continues....

Why must there be meaning to be value? There are many meaningless things I take great pleasure in and enjoy even more than things that have at least the façade of meaning.
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« Reply #649 on: June 07, 2008, 08:16:26 PM »

Can't you give a straight answer?

Seemed pretty straight to me...let me spell it out slowly:

Christian morals are bunk.

Christian praxis is bunk.

Christian high theology is pretty cool, theoretically plausable, but overly complex.

A deity akin to that of the deists requires fewer assumptions.

Applying Occam's razor, I tend towards the explination that requires fewer assumptions.
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« Reply #650 on: June 07, 2008, 08:16:51 PM »

Why must there be meaning to be value? There are many meaningless things I take great pleasure in and enjoy even more than things that have at least the façade of meaning.

Like I said, the quest for meaninglessness continues.

Seemed pretty straight to me...let me spell it out slowly:

Christian morals are bunk.

Christian praxis is bunk.

Christian high theology is pretty cool, theoretically plausable, but overly complex.

A deity akin to that of the deists requires fewer assumptions.

Applying Occam's razor, I tend towards the explination that requires fewer assumptions.

...and cut yourself in process of assUming.
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« Reply #651 on: June 07, 2008, 08:17:55 PM »

So you are saying you are not a Christian as far as the Nicene Creed? Give me a straight yes or no...
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« Reply #652 on: June 07, 2008, 09:45:46 PM »

So you are saying you are not a Christian as far as the Nicene Creed? Give me a straight yes or no...

For the gods' sake, give me a break, I didn't think I could be more obvious. But, for what it's worth, no, I do not enslave myself to every detail of the Nicene Creed. Roll Eyes
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O sweet Jesus, cleanse my soul.


« Reply #653 on: June 07, 2008, 10:06:26 PM »


One day when GiC comes back to the Orthodox faith he will most likely be so full of zeal (and with his great power of debate) that he will be a formidable and persuasive advocate of Orthodoxy.  I pray for that humbling day of conversion.  But for now I must be content to read his posts and be happy that he is a part of the OC.net community.

Juliana Smiley   
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« Reply #654 on: June 07, 2008, 10:15:54 PM »

I'm happy too, that GiC is a part of OC.net. Furthermore, I hold him in awe for his mathematical skills and cheerfully accept my position in life as a (hopefully) tolerable  subhuman being Smiley
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« Reply #655 on: June 07, 2008, 10:22:52 PM »

For the gods' sake, give me a break, I didn't think I could be more obvious. But, for what it's worth, no, I do not enslave myself to every detail of the Nicene Creed. Roll Eyes

Do you believe any detail of it? (except the "He died part."  I expect that).
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« Reply #656 on: June 07, 2008, 10:26:52 PM »

Do you believe any detail of it? (except the "He died part."  I expect that).
Pay no attention to the troll behind the screen name. Had he originally stated he was a non-Orthodox when he joined and started that drivel, he would have been muted or banned by now.
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« Reply #657 on: June 07, 2008, 10:31:53 PM »

A deity akin to that of the deists requires fewer assumptions.

Actually I would say just the opposite. A deity which does not reveal itself at all can be ignored quite readily in the name of Occam's Razor, since it isn't needed to explain anything, and certainly not a posited lack of miracles.
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« Reply #658 on: June 07, 2008, 10:43:29 PM »

Oh boy! A debate between mathematicians...this thread just became interesting again.
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« Reply #659 on: June 07, 2008, 10:45:19 PM »

Since this is Free-For-All, does that mean non-Orthodox (and non-Christians) can post here?
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« Reply #660 on: June 07, 2008, 10:50:29 PM »

Can't you give a straight answer?
Anybody who spends this much time looking for a reason to not be Orthodox is one of two things. Orthodox or Greek.
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« Reply #661 on: June 07, 2008, 10:52:12 PM »

Quote
Since this is Free-For-All, does that mean non-Orthodox (and non-Christians) can post here?

Non-Orthodox (and non-Christians) can post anywhere on the board that they want to, as long as they aren't breaking the rules. Smiley
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 10:52:59 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #662 on: June 07, 2008, 11:00:33 PM »

What are you talking about Demetrios? Were you talking about me? I don't understand.

Ok ty Asteriktos!
It isn't that I hate non-Christians, I'm just not mature enough in Orthodox theology and thinking to guard myself against heresies. While I've been a Christian/Protestant all my life, and I can guard myself against non-Christian ideas, I have a hard time against heresies. Thus knowing who are and aren't Christians or Orthodox Christians is just simply a precaution I take so that I do not fall into heresy.
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« Reply #663 on: June 08, 2008, 12:01:32 AM »

What are you talking about Demetrios? Were you talking about me? I don't understand.

Ok ty Asteriktos!
It isn't that I hate non-Christians, I'm just not mature enough in Orthodox theology and thinking to guard myself against heresies. While I've been a Christian/Protestant all my life, and I can guard myself against non-Christian ideas, I have a hard time against heresies. Thus knowing who are and aren't Christians or Orthodox Christians is just simply a precaution I take so that I do not fall into heresy.

Don't worry, I'm pretty blunt about these things...but you might want to watch out for those non-Chalcedonians preaching their heresy condemned by the fourth oecumenical synod. It'll probably take you a few months to figure out who's who since the details of the argument are so trivial...and it's always fun to watch someone accidently embrace a technically heretical view because of the argument in favour.
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« Reply #664 on: June 08, 2008, 12:06:26 AM »

Actually I would say just the opposite. A deity which does not reveal itself at all can be ignored quite readily in the name of Occam's Razor, since it isn't needed to explain anything, and certainly not a posited lack of miracles.

A deity is only needed to explain one thing, the concept of consistency, a deity that does that and only that is the most rational deity according to Occam's Razor. And the revelation of this force is through the unprovable existence of consistency itself.
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« Reply #665 on: June 08, 2008, 12:36:05 AM »

The human mind is nothing but a biochemical computer, it can be changed by changing chemical balances, adjusting external stimuli, or even altering the neural pathways...but it certainly doesn't require some metaphysical presence. It's a physical machine changed by physical things. That is what you are, it may not be what you want to be, you may wish there was something beyond it, but that's just reality, it's good or bad, it's just true.

Seriously, you should be teaching freshman philosophy and debate the way you maneuver discussions! Maybe even some sophomore classes! Wink  Of course the human mind is a biochemical computer.  I'm talking about Jesus and the heart and you start lecturing on biochemistry. You come here and act like we are rats in a cage.  In reality, you are the one in the cage.  You obviously post here because your heart has a big hole that your chemistry and mathematics can't fill.  It's a clear lesson to us all that science, and math, and biology can't heal our hearts and soul.  Every moment you engage in attacking God, attacking faith, throwing a tantrum at all us "christian" people, etc. the irony of why you even bother speaks loudly to your true condition and the condition of all of our hearts without Christ.  So keep posting.  Please.  This place wasn't nearly as instructional when you were on hiatus! Wink
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« Reply #666 on: June 08, 2008, 03:39:50 AM »

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One day when GiC comes back to the Orthodox faith he will most likely be so full of zeal (and with his great power of debate) that he will be a formidable and persuasive advocate of Orthodoxy.  I pray for that humbling day of conversion.  But for now I must be content to read his posts and be happy that he is a part of the OC.net community.
Juliana   


I'm happy too, that GiC is a part of OC.net. Furthermore, I hold him in awe for his mathematical skills and cheerfully accept my position in life as a (hopefully) tolerable  subhuman being Smiley

I, too, am part of the GIC fan club. I very much appreciate his presence here on OC.net.
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« Reply #667 on: June 08, 2008, 07:17:17 AM »

Seriously, you should be teaching freshman philosophy and debate the way you maneuver discussions! Maybe even some sophomore classes! Wink  Of course the human mind is a biochemical computer.  I'm talking about Jesus and the heart and you start lecturing on biochemistry. You come here and act like we are rats in a cage.  In reality, you are the one in the cage.  You obviously post here because your heart has a big hole that your chemistry and mathematics can't fill.  It's a clear lesson to us all that science, and math, and biology can't heal our hearts and soul.  Every moment you engage in attacking God, attacking faith, throwing a tantrum at all us "christian" people, etc. the irony of why you even bother speaks loudly to your true condition and the condition of all of our hearts without Christ.  So keep posting.  Please.  This place wasn't nearly as instructional when you were on hiatus! Wink

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Every time I run that maze
and pull that string
a bell rings
and a man in white smock
asiduous and smart
comes out and give me cheese
how is it
that he has fallen into my power?
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« Reply #668 on: June 08, 2008, 09:42:09 AM »

I, too, am part of the GIC fan club. I very much appreciate his presence here on OC.net.

I must admit, I'm also a fan of GiC.
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« Reply #669 on: June 08, 2008, 12:17:51 PM »

I remember a poem:

Every time I run that maze
and pull that string
a bell rings
and a man in white smock
asiduous and smart
comes out and give me cheese
how is it
that he has fallen into my power?

Great poem! It reminds me of raising our 5 kids, my wife and I like to think we are the ones in charge but really the five little mice are the ones with all the power! Time stops and priorities bend to the will of a one-year old when one of our oldest says something like, "Dad, Maximus has poop in his diaper, change it!"  Wink
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« Reply #670 on: June 18, 2008, 03:32:21 AM »

Blessed Father Seraphim (Rose) on Evolution:

Of all the modern philosophies which Alexey Young, as a school teacher and later as a principal, was confronted with, perhaps the most powerful was that of evolution. He could see that most parents were ignorant of the very formidable scientific evidence against evolution, and also of the fact that evolution was being used (often quite deliberately) to undermine the very foundations of the Christian worldview. He decided to write an article for the sake of these parents, to make them more aware of what their children were being fed intellectually. Sending it to Fr. Seraphim for review, he received it back with a few suggestions and encouragement to print it in Nikodemos.


Some time thereafter, Fathers Herman and Seraphim were surprised to receive a letter expressing displeasure over the article, written by a priest of the Russian Church Abroad who was under the spiritual direction of Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston. According to the fathers of the Boston monastery, evolution was a "forbidden subject"; and it hurt this priest to see that Alexey was not agreeing with these authorities. Amazed to read in Nikodemos an article against such an established "fact" as evolution, the priest wrote that Alexey, as a convert who had retained his "Roman perspective," should not be allowed the "privilege of publication," and he stated that he was "withdrawing all support from Nikodemos."


While working on The Kingdom of Man and the Kingdom of God, Fr. Seraphim had made an investigation into the social, philosophical, and spiritual roots of evolutionism. Later, when attending the theological courses instituted by Archbishop John, he had studied the teaching of the Orthodox Church regarding the creation of the universe, as passed on through the Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers.* Thus, having understood for a long time that evolutionism was antithetical to the Orthodox worldview, he concluded that the Orthodox critics of Alexey's article were "just not aware of the whole issue of evolution, whether in its scientific side or in its religious-theological implications." To Alexey he wrote: "Obviously your article has touched something very deep (frankly we are astonished that people so keen on ecclesiastical matters, ecumenism, etc., should seem never to have given much thought to such an important thing as evolution; apparently it is because it seems to be outside the Church sphere)."3
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/fsr_63.aspx
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« Reply #671 on: June 21, 2008, 05:44:55 PM »

"If we define evolution as the change in the genetic makeup of populations, then we can verify objectively that this change takes place. Population geneticists have already done it in the 1920's - 1970's."

Shades of Thomas Malthus

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« Reply #672 on: June 21, 2008, 06:31:20 PM »

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I must admit, I'm also a fan of GiC.

Me too. Though I still don't know why he has the Oecumenical Patriarchate as his jurisdiction...
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 06:31:36 PM by Simayan » Logged

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« Reply #673 on: June 21, 2008, 11:23:52 PM »

Blessed Father Seraphim (Rose) on Evolution:

Of all the modern philosophies which Alexey Young, as a school teacher and later as a principal, was confronted with, perhaps the most powerful was that of evolution. He could see that most parents were ignorant of the very formidable scientific evidence against evolution, and also of the fact that evolution was being used (often quite deliberately) to undermine the very foundations of the Christian worldview. He decided to write an article for the sake of these parents, to make them more aware of what their children were being fed intellectually. Sending it to Fr. Seraphim for review, he received it back with a few suggestions and encouragement to print it in Nikodemos.


Some time thereafter, Fathers Herman and Seraphim were surprised to receive a letter expressing displeasure over the article, written by a priest of the Russian Church Abroad who was under the spiritual direction of Holy Transfiguration Monastery in Boston. According to the fathers of the Boston monastery, evolution was a "forbidden subject"; and it hurt this priest to see that Alexey was not agreeing with these authorities. Amazed to read in Nikodemos an article against such an established "fact" as evolution, the priest wrote that Alexey, as a convert who had retained his "Roman perspective," should not be allowed the "privilege of publication," and he stated that he was "withdrawing all support from Nikodemos."


While working on The Kingdom of Man and the Kingdom of God, Fr. Seraphim had made an investigation into the social, philosophical, and spiritual roots of evolutionism. Later, when attending the theological courses instituted by Archbishop John, he had studied the teaching of the Orthodox Church regarding the creation of the universe, as passed on through the Scriptures and the writings of the Holy Fathers.* Thus, having understood for a long time that evolutionism was antithetical to the Orthodox worldview, he concluded that the Orthodox critics of Alexey's article were "just not aware of the whole issue of evolution, whether in its scientific side or in its religious-theological implications." To Alexey he wrote: "Obviously your article has touched something very deep (frankly we are astonished that people so keen on ecclesiastical matters, ecumenism, etc., should seem never to have given much thought to such an important thing as evolution; apparently it is because it seems to be outside the Church sphere)."3
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/fsr_63.aspx

Unfortunately, when it comes to evolution, in my humble opinion, Fr Seraphim has no clue about what he is talking about.
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« Reply #674 on: June 22, 2008, 11:22:35 AM »

Pay no attention to the troll behind the screen name. Had he originally stated he was a non-Orthodox when he joined and started that drivel, he would have been muted or banned by now.

If memory serves me right, when GiC first joined OC.net he was a student at the Greek Orthodox Seminary along with several of our other forum members.  So back then he wasn't non-Orthodox, I'd gather.

And I agree with you, Pravoslavbob.

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« Last Edit: June 22, 2008, 11:23:52 AM by Ebor » Logged

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