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Author Topic: Old vs. New Calendar?  (Read 132005 times) Average Rating: 0
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ialmisry
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« Reply #2070 on: May 16, 2013, 11:18:56 PM »

The olde Old Calendar

http://oldbelievernews.livejournal.com/?skip=50

"While traditional Old Calendarists pride themselves on keeping the old Julian calendar for liturgical services, what they don't say (or perhaps know) is that the Julian calendar with the Anno Domini dating for years was introduced only in 1700 A.D. in Russia and in 1728 A.D. in Constantinople.

Before this, the Anno Mundi system, also known as the "Etos Kosmou" or Byzantine Creation Era was in use in the east.  It starts with the creation of the world, which it dates to approximately 5500 years before the birth of Christ.  Early church fathers, such as Theophilus of Antioch, Julian Africanus, and Hippolytus of Rome determined the age of the world to have been about 5530 years at the birth of Christ.  They based their calculations in turn on earlier Jewish and Greek historians.  By about 988 A.D.the date was finalized to be 5509 BC.  

The strict old believers continue to use the Anno Mundi system.  The first page of the Stoglav sobor contains the date Feb. 23, 7059.  All of the ancient Slavonic writings use this system of dating.  The year begins on Sept. 1, under this system, so Sept. 13, 2009 corresponds to August 31, 7517 and Sept. 14, 2009 was the first day of the new year with the date Sept. 1, 7518 AM.  Todays date, Nov. 10, 2009, would correspond to Oct. 28, 7518 A.M.  

The Anno Domini system was invented by Dionysius Exiguus and popularized by Venerable Bede and Charlemange and gradually spread over the west where it was adopted by every country in Europe by the 14th century, and as mentioned was formally adopted by Constantinople, Mt. Athos and Russia in the 1700s.

While the method of calculating years is certainly not a doctrinal issue, using the A.M. system puts one in the world of the early church fathers and the ancient orthodox saints of the east, whereas the A.D. system has a European origin and mindset.  I think we should use the old Old Calendar whenever possible."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Byzantine_Creation_Era
The Creation Era was not by any means universally used by the Fathers, the Seleucid Era, the Era of Alexander, the Era of Martyrs (from Diocletian's reign) among others were used.

Dionysios came from the Apostolic See of Tomis (present day Constanta, Romania), and is an ancient Orthodox saint of the East.

Talk about contradicting just to be contrary.  The AD system is quite fine. For that matter, the Year of Creation is of European origin and mindset (the reason why St. Dionysios devised his system, based on the fullness of time-if the hymns of the Annunciation and Nativity are to be believed).
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« Reply #2071 on: May 16, 2013, 11:27:15 PM »

The olde Old Calendar

http://oldbelievernews.livejournal.com/?skip=50

"While traditional Old Calendarists pride themselves on keeping the old Julian calendar for liturgical services, what they don't say (or perhaps know) is that the Julian calendar with the Anno Domini dating for years was introduced only in 1700 A.D. in Russia and in 1728 A.D. in Constantinople.

Before this, the Anno Mundi system, also known as the "Etos Kosmou" or Byzantine Creation Era was in use in the east.  It starts with the creation of the world, which it dates to approximately 5500 years before the birth of Christ.  Early church fathers, such as Theophilus of Antioch, Julian Africanus, and Hippolytus of Rome determined the age of the world to have been about 5530 years at the birth of Christ.  They based their calculations in turn on earlier Jewish and Greek historians.  By about 988 A.D.the date was finalized to be 5509 BC.  

The strict old believers continue to use the Anno Mundi system.  The first page of the Stoglav sobor contains the date Feb. 23, 7059.  All of the ancient Slavonic writings use this system of dating.  The year begins on Sept. 1, under this system, so Sept. 13, 2009 corresponds to August 31, 7517 and Sept. 14, 2009 was the first day of the new year with the date Sept. 1, 7518 AM.  Todays date, Nov. 10, 2009, would correspond to Oct. 28, 7518 A.M.  

The Anno Domini system was invented by Dionysius Exiguus and popularized by Venerable Bede and Charlemange and gradually spread over the west where it was adopted by every country in Europe by the 14th century, and as mentioned was formally adopted by Constantinople, Mt. Athos and Russia in the 1700s.

While the method of calculating years is certainly not a doctrinal issue, using the A.M. system puts one in the world of the early church fathers and the ancient orthodox saints of the east, whereas the A.D. system has a European origin and mindset.  I think we should use the old Old Calendar whenever possible."

http://orthodoxwiki.org/Byzantine_Creation_Era

But if I'm following this correctly, then the actual date of the day and month would be identical, and only the number of the year would be different, correct? So there was still no interruption in universally uniform commemorations/feasts for major holidays?

Yeah this was a total red herring. Not to mention the fact that Peter the Great only changed the year of reckoning for the civil calendar; the Russian Church, as with the rest of the Orthodox Church, continues to count years from the Creation.
Ah, no.  The Ecumenical Patriarchate switched (or rather, added) to the AD system in 1628. And the Russian Church used (and uses) it.

I wanted to check what system HOTCA uses and apparently we're content with AD.
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« Reply #2072 on: May 18, 2013, 03:04:05 PM »

But if I'm following this correctly, then the actual date of the day and month would be identical, and only the number of the year would be different, correct? So there was still no interruption in universally uniform commemorations/feasts for major holidays?
This is true of the early modern switch from A.M. to A.D.  The dates, days of the week, and ages of the moon continued uninterrupted.

There was an earlier recalibration of the era which did, in fact, change the paschalion slightly.  Evidence from the 4th and 5th centuries suggests that sometime around A.D. 400 someone (possibly Bishop Cyril of Alexandria) as part of mapping the paschalion to the era of Diocletian, moved the lunar tables for one of the 19 years forward by 1 day, so that the paschal full moon / νομικον φασκα for those years would henceforward fall on April 5th rather than April 6th as previously.  Next year, A.D. 2014, is one of these years, so the old-calendar moon will be full next year on April 5th Julian / April 18th Gregorian.  The Armenian church never accepted this change, so their old-calendar Easter differs from Greek old-calendar Easter in 4 years out of every 532.

The new-calendar moon will be full next year on April 14th.  Since April 14th is a Monday and April 18th a Friday, no Sunday intervenes, so both Julian and Gregorian Easter next year will be on April 20th.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2013, 03:09:04 PM by Mockingbird » Logged
Tags: old calendar New Calendar calendar computus paschalion 
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