Author Topic: Old vs. New Calendar?  (Read 725039 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RaphaCam

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,396
  • Be good works the daily nourishment of your hearts
    • Em Espírito e em Verdade
  • Faith: Big-O Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Exarchate of Gotham City
Re: Old vs. New Calendar?
« Reply #2925 on: May 30, 2016, 12:22:15 PM »
[The foundations of Pascha are pretty far from a Spring Full Moon celebration.
The foundations of Easter are closely liked to the season, the equinox, and the lunar phase.  In a way, the season, the sun, and the moon can be deemed to be celebrating Easter.  Some early fathers considered the season and the luminaries to be connected to the resurrection from the time of their creation.  The earth was created in springtime, since it "brought forth" vegetation.  The moon was created full because God would not make anything imperfect.  The night and the day, or for some, the sun and the moon, were created at equinox because God would not make them unequal.  The passion and the resurrection inaugurate the new creation, so its season recapitulates the first creation.
This is very interesting. I don' t think there is any reason, however, to be stuck to the initial foundations of the feast, which are relevant but IMO belong to history. They would make things more confusing, wouldn't make the celebration more special, significant or holy, and the average parishioner would be very far from acknowledging this particularity. Maybe if people had done it as soon as Pascha crossed the Equator it would be nice, but now it's been 500 years of Christianity and 200 of Orthodoxy.
"Behold, the mystical sacrifice, fully accomplished, is ushered in. In fervent faith let us draw near, that we may become sharers in everlasting life. Alleluia."

Please pray for myself, my family and my friends.

Check my blog "Em Espírito e em Verdade" (in Portuguese). Last article: Fontes de fé da Igreja Ortodoxa

Offline Mockingbird

  • Mimus polyglottos
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 244
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Episcopal Church
Re: Old vs. New Calendar?
« Reply #2926 on: August 05, 2016, 08:41:58 PM »
[The foundations of Pascha are pretty far from a Spring Full Moon celebration.
The foundations of Easter are closely liked to the season, the equinox, and the lunar phase.  In a way, the season, the sun, and the moon can be deemed to be celebrating Easter.  Some early fathers considered the season and the luminaries to be connected to the resurrection from the time of their creation.  The earth was created in springtime, since it "brought forth" vegetation.  The moon was created full because God would not make anything imperfect.  The night and the day, or for some, the sun and the moon, were created at equinox because God would not make them unequal.  The passion and the resurrection inaugurate the new creation, so its season recapitulates the first creation.
This is very interesting. I don' t think there is any reason, however, to be stuck to the initial foundations of the feast, which are relevant but IMO belong to history. They would make things more confusing, wouldn't make the celebration more special, significant or holy, and the average parishioner would be very far from acknowledging this particularity. Maybe if people had done it as soon as Pascha crossed the Equator it would be nice, but now it's been 500 years of Christianity and 200 of Orthodoxy.
I hold that the festival should continue to be linked to the Spring season in one of two ways.  Either:

(1) The Paschal full moon for everyone should fall when "the sun is in [the astrological sign of] Aries", as Josephus wrote; in other words, when the sun's ecliptic longitude is between 0 and 30 degrees inclusive, or:

(2) Christians north of the tropic of Capricorn should celebrate as in policy (1) above, while Christians south of the Tropic of Capricorn should set the Paschal full moon to fall when the sun is in the astrological sign of Libra.
Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.--Byrhtferth of Ramsey

Offline Mockingbird

  • Mimus polyglottos
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 244
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Episcopal Church
Re: Old vs. New Calendar?
« Reply #2927 on: October 08, 2016, 02:20:11 PM »
This article is correct as far as it goes, but there are two points on which I think it lacking:

1) It concentrates on the solar side of the calendar change and completely ignores the lunar side.  Lillius and Clavius didn't just knock 7 days of the solar calendar, they also made the moon to be about 3 days older than the old Julian tables had it;

2) The author seems unaware of the distinction between the overall average tropical year of 365.2422 days and the Spring equinox tropical year of 365.2424 days.  The Gregorian year of 365.2425 days seems to be intended to approximate the latter, not the former.

http://www.vox.com/2016/10/4/13147306/434th-gregorian-calendar-anniversary-google-doogle
Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.--Byrhtferth of Ramsey

Offline Mockingbird

  • Mimus polyglottos
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 244
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Episcopal Church
Re: Old vs. New Calendar?
« Reply #2928 on: January 26, 2017, 10:10:44 PM »
Call me naïve, I've never understood how when we celebrate Easter became more important than that we celebrate Easter.
Someone in the corridors of Roman power strongly disagrees, for the following hysterical law occurs in the Theodosian Code:

Quote from: Theodosian Code 16.6.6.1
Illud etiam, quod a retro principibus dissimulatum est et in iniuriam sacrae legis ab exsecrandis hominibus agitatur et ab his potissimum, qui, novatianorum collegio desertores ac refugae, auctores se quam potiores memoratae sectae haberi contendunt, quibus ex crimine nomen est, cum se protopaschitas appellari desiderent, inultum esse non patimur. Sed si alio die novatiani, quam quo orthodoxorum antistites, praedicandum ac memorabilem saeculis diem paschae duxerint celebrandum, auctores illius conventionis deportatio pariter ac proscriptio subsequatur, contra quos acrior etiam poena fuerat promulganda, si quidem hoc delicto etiam haereticorum vesaniam superent, qui alio tempore quam quo orthodoxi paschae festivitatem observantes alium paene dei filium, non quem colimus venerantur. Dat. XII kal. april. Constantinopoli Lucio v. c. cons. (413 Mar. 21).

which means

Quote from: Theodosian Code 16.6.6.1
That which was formerly overlooked by the princes, and is done to the injury of sacred law by worthless men -- and by those especially, who [are] deserters and refugees from the congregation of the Novatians, [yet] hold that they are rather to be considered as the authors of the aforementioned sect, [and] who are named after their crime, since they desire to be called protopaschites -- we will not suffer it to be unpunished.  If the Novatians order that the famous and ever-memorable Easter Day is to be celebrated on another day than that on which the bishops of the orthodox [order it], let deportation and proscription equally follow the authors of this custom.  A sterner penalty was to be promulgated against them [than against other heretics], because they who, observing the festival of Easter at another time than that on which the orthodox [observe it], by this crime even exceed the madness of the heretics, venerating almost another Son of God than him whom we worship. Given at Constantinople on the 12th Kalends of April in the year of Lucius, vir clarissimus, Consul (March 21 413).
Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.--Byrhtferth of Ramsey

Offline Mockingbird

  • Mimus polyglottos
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 244
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Episcopal Church
Re: Old vs. New Calendar?
« Reply #2929 on: February 23, 2017, 09:50:01 PM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-j-dunn-phd/what-makes-orthodox-easter-different_b_9826838.html

From the article, referring to the Julian Easter date in 2016:

Quote
Orthodox Easter came very late this year. Orthodox Easter often falls on a different date than everybody else. This is the most obvious difference, and it is also the stupidest. There are clear historical reasons for this (the best explanation I have ever read can be found on PublicOrthodoxy.org), but in a nutshell we would rather violate the spirit of Nicaea than admit the pope was right about something. Its only theological significance is that it evinces how stubborn and prideful we can be as an institution.

Forþon we sealon efestan þas Easterlican þing to asmeagenne and to gehealdanne, þaet we magon cuman to þam Easterlican daege, þe aa byð, mid fullum glaedscipe and wynsumnysse and ecere blisse.--Byrhtferth of Ramsey