Author Topic: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox  (Read 6714 times)

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2014, 02:35:31 PM »
Head's up: Schaeffer's new book is due out in May. Title: Why I'm an Atheist Who Believes in God: How to Create Beauty, Give Love and Find Peace. Should be interesting.

I find the title sensationalistic, slimy-slick, contrived, insulting, and cringe-worthy... but it worked: I will probably read this.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline JoeS2

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2014, 08:07:38 PM »
Who is Frank Schaeffer??

oh well

A pro abortion, pro so called same sex marriage fruit who writes for left wing rags.

Maybe he is a New Age Reformed Orthodox Christian.....???????

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2014, 07:16:33 PM »
Schaeffer: "Religion is a neurological disorder only faith is the cure!"
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2014, 07:25:39 PM »
Schaeffer: "Religion is a neurological disorder only faith is the cure!"


How about that. Schaffer is a Romanidite.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2014, 06:36:12 PM »
I watched a video of him for about an hour. I really enjoyed it. Forgive me I am Catholic, but I also found it a bit annoying. He seemed very earnest and good hearted but like some here I found him to be a bit bitter towards the Tea Party or certain conservative groups. Like someone said when he goes off into that it's best to just sort of take it with a grain of salt. Roman Catholics have the same problem with their lay theologians or whatever they are. Catholic Answers is sort of disliked by even traditionalists who are not big fans of the SSPX. Frank Shaffer seems to be the Orthodox version.  It's important to remember that both the Catholic and Orthodox leave the voice of the Church to clergy moreso, though not absolutely lest it all become clericalism. The problem is people like Shaffer, if it's the same as the Catholic lay theologians, sort of get this idea that they are some official voice of the Church. I've had a few people complain about their dealings with Catholic Answers and their lay theologians and the idea these guys in suits give: that they are somehow worth more than any other layman who reads Scripture and the Fathers. They've got a name and a suit or whatever. They've got something more than a blog! They are famous! Really, I like Shaffer and think he is earnest but from what I saw he fell into that same group as the Catholic Answers/EWTN type. Just look up the blog of Mark Shea. It turns into a bitter rant against traditionalists that gets annoying even though I like a lot of what Shea has to say. He even helped me look East in his own way! But like Shaffer's bitterness towards the right,  Shea get's old. Rule of thumb: Take what's good as gold, and the rest as a grain of salt. You've got a mind and can read. You've got priests. I'll read the wisdom of the Fathers, too. The Holy Spirit can help me, too. In the era of anti-clericalism, types like Shaffer can be dangerous, though not by intent.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #50 on: March 15, 2014, 06:38:32 PM »
We are episcopalians I remind you, that is with a small "e"! Our churches are ruled by an episcopal body, not laymen like the congregationalists. Laymen go to the synods and councils invited by clergy to advice and help.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 06:39:31 PM by wainscottbl »
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

--Robert E. Lee

Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2014, 10:00:45 PM »
I watched a video of him for about an hour. I really enjoyed it. Forgive me I am Catholic, but I also found it a bit annoying. He seemed very earnest and good hearted but like some here I found him to be a bit bitter towards the Tea Party or certain conservative groups. Like someone said when he goes off into that it's best to just sort of take it with a grain of salt. Roman Catholics have the same problem with their lay theologians or whatever they are. Catholic Answers is sort of disliked by even traditionalists who are not big fans of the SSPX. Frank Shaffer seems to be the Orthodox version.  It's important to remember that both the Catholic and Orthodox leave the voice of the Church to clergy moreso, though not absolutely lest it all become clericalism. The problem is people like Shaffer, if it's the same as the Catholic lay theologians, sort of get this idea that they are some official voice of the Church. I've had a few people complain about their dealings with Catholic Answers and their lay theologians and the idea these guys in suits give: that they are somehow worth more than any other layman who reads Scripture and the Fathers. They've got a name and a suit or whatever. They've got something more than a blog! They are famous! Really, I like Shaffer and think he is earnest but from what I saw he fell into that same group as the Catholic Answers/EWTN type. Just look up the blog of Mark Shea. It turns into a bitter rant against traditionalists that gets annoying even though I like a lot of what Shea has to say. He even helped me look East in his own way! But like Shaffer's bitterness towards the right,  Shea get's old. Rule of thumb: Take what's good as gold, and the rest as a grain of salt. You've got a mind and can read. You've got priests. I'll read the wisdom of the Fathers, too. The Holy Spirit can help me, too. In the era of anti-clericalism, types like Shaffer can be dangerous, though not by intent.

Frank Schafer is any kind of Orthodox theologian, lay or otherwise. He is a very angry young man whose chief purpose in life seems to be to prove that he is not his father.  The problem is that he would be no one if it were not for his father. After I heard him speak once, I decided that I would never have him speak in my parish. When he came into Orthodoxy, he acted as if he were the deliverer or Orthodoxy, but he really did not convert to Orthodoxy, he rejected the Protestantism of his father. I had some dealings with him about publishing a book and also found him to be dishonest for he does not honor his contracts.  Actually, I am glad that he did not honor the contract, because I do not want my work associated with him in any way.

Fr. John W. Morris
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 10:01:39 PM by frjohnmorris »

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2014, 10:13:20 PM »
Thank you for your honest, forceful but charitable words on the man, reverend Father. I sensed a certain problem watching the man. He means well, but is mental issues make him dangerous as a face of Orthodox, a cause of scandal and confusion. I suppose the prudent can discern the good and bad more or less, but the little children in the faith and outside the faith who are scandalized by his problems, Lord have mercy. He is very charming but I do realize now that I think about that his talk, because of its charms, was dangerous for that reason. Like I said, I like him, but your fathers, Father Morris, make me realize the danger of such people. You truly understand your pastoral duty to defend the Faith.

True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #53 on: April 25, 2014, 12:45:53 PM »
As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I certainly take exception with Frank Shaeffer's political agenda which he promotes under the guise of Orthodoxy. However, I also realize that many people take exception to my pacifist pro-life views which I believe are thoroughly Orthodox; so I don't want to be guilty of calling the kettle. But the beautiful thing about the Church is that God somehow preserves it from the errors of all of us. We state our convictions and trust the Church to correct us. And in the scheme of eternity, we all get a lot wrong; but if we cling to Christ and His sacraments then we collectively get it right in the end. 


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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #54 on: May 16, 2014, 10:19:57 AM »
Quote
One phrase comes to mind, time and again, when I think of Frank Schaeffer: “THINK AGAIN.” Any time I think I have a handle on things theological, he seems to find the thread, hanging from the edges, and gives it a good, solid yank.

Such is the case once again with his newest book, “Why I am an Atheist Who Believes in God...."
....
I asked Frank several questions about his new project; here is what he had to say.
....
What do you see as the primary take-away from this book?

[Frank Schaeffer:] I do not always believe -- let alone know -- if God exists. I do not always know he, she or it does not exist either, though there are long patches in my life when it seems God never did exist. What I know is that I see the Creator in Jesus or nowhere. What I know is that I see Jesus in my children and grandchildren’s love. What I know is that I rediscover hope again and again through my wife Genie’s love. What I know is that Mother Maria loved unto death. What I know is that sometimes something too good to be true, is true.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 10:21:29 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #55 on: May 16, 2014, 10:30:29 AM »
Frank Shaeffer is a man who doesn't consistently believe anything, and likes to very forcefully remind everyone of that and condemn those that do.

I think he has gone through more reincarnations in his belief system than Vishnu.
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Offline Hamartolos

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #56 on: May 16, 2014, 10:32:50 AM »
So, is he still in the Orthodox Church or not?  After actually doing a little bit of research on the guy, I can't believe any Orthodox Christian would buy into what this guy has to say.  Not to mention he's apparently slandered ministers such as Billy Graham and refused to retract what was proven to be false.  He's not credible.
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Offline vasily

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2014, 12:35:13 PM »
I cannot figure out dear Frank. I have listened to most of his video on youtube about Orthodoxy and find them a useful tool for those interested in Orthodoxy. But, he has come out with other videos with a more blatant political agenda. Freedom of speech? or has he become a political commentator?


Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #58 on: May 30, 2014, 07:50:05 PM »
Quote
One phrase comes to mind, time and again, when I think of Frank Schaeffer: “THINK AGAIN.” Any time I think I have a handle on things theological, he seems to find the thread, hanging from the edges, and gives it a good, solid yank.

Such is the case once again with his newest book, “Why I am an Atheist Who Believes in God...."
....
I asked Frank several questions about his new project; here is what he had to say.
....
What do you see as the primary take-away from this book?

[Frank Schaeffer:] I do not always believe -- let alone know -- if God exists. I do not always know he, she or it does not exist either, though there are long patches in my life when it seems God never did exist. What I know is that I see the Creator in Jesus or nowhere. What I know is that I see Jesus in my children and grandchildren’s love. What I know is that I rediscover hope again and again through my wife Genie’s love. What I know is that Mother Maria loved unto death. What I know is that sometimes something too good to be true, is true.


This book is free (right now, anyway) on the Kindle, though you may have to be a Prime member.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2014, 06:42:04 PM »
He's got a lot of baggage and mental issues. I do not mean that as an attack, but it's just a fact. But I do like what good he does. He's charming and I think that's what he goes on, but does not seem to care what wrong he does. Dare I say he has somewhat of an anti-social personality disorder. Or maybe he is just narcissistic. Not maliciously so, but seeks attention and will not recant what wrong he says. He's likable though because he is not malicious. There are malicious religious pop stars and those you just want to punch in the fact for being such jerks. Shaffer you do not know what to do. You don't want to hit him, but you might want to yell at him.
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #60 on: June 06, 2014, 07:23:37 PM »
I ordered a physical copy of his new book and just finished reading it last night.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #61 on: June 06, 2014, 07:29:52 PM »
I ordered a physical copy of his new book and just finished reading it last night.

And what do you physically think about it?  :P
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #62 on: June 06, 2014, 09:35:29 PM »
I ordered a physical copy of his new book and just finished reading it last night.

And what do you physically think about it?  :P

I mentioned that it is a physical copy because they are only print on demand. Welcome to the digital age, kids.

I'm not sure I have much to say about it. There are flashes of brilliance very occasionally (like twice), and the rest of the time it ranges between insightful to idiotic. Certainly not coherent or consistent in any way, not that that's what he was reaching for. But at times his inconstancy pushes the limits of credulity. Honestly, I guess it was mostly disappointing. It came off more like a compendium of ranting blog posts from a retired grump than like a purposeful reflection on belief/lack of belief in God. To sum it up: Who knows if God is real? The world is full of suffering, the God of the Bible, Old and New Testaments, is a tyrant who we all ignore when we need to. But his grandkids are great and make him feel all squishy and full of life. He loves lots of art and architecture and music, and he spends pages making sure you know how refined his tastes are. So surely there's got to be some reason for all of that beauty. And he's totally cool with gay people, so in case you didn't know, he's cool with gay people. Like completely cool with it. Not homophobic like church people. Church is okay because it's about the feeling you get at a repetitious ritual in an archaic language. It's not about the words said or anything, it's about an experience of beauty with other people that takes you outside yourself. So he still goes to church, but he doesn't really believe most of it. But he does still believe in Social Jesus, and he honestly talks about hitting his kids when he was younger. I think that about covers it.

But it was enjoyable to read for me in the way that some people like reading People magazine. Brain candy. And I got to see an example of somebody nearing their golden years who I have no desire to be like, so maybe through his experiences I can avoid some intellectual pitfalls along the way. If I had to rate it, I'd give it a ?+.

Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2014, 09:32:59 PM »
This book is free (right now, anyway) on the Kindle, though you may have to be a Prime member.

It's little things like that which have me considering caving and getting an e-reader. But for now I'll stick to reading paper. I love the feel. Plus I love getting away from a screen rather than moving to another one.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 09:47:08 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2014, 09:40:11 PM »
But for now I'll still to read paper. I love the feel. Plus I love getting away from a screen rather than moving to another one.

 :-*
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2014, 01:38:15 AM »
Schaeffer: "Here is one of my favorite people — Brian McLaren — doing me the honor of interviewing me in depth. Because it is Brian, I forget there is a camera there and say things I’ve never really shared honestly before...."
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2014, 03:09:46 AM »
Schaeffer: "Here is one of my favorite people — Brian McLaren — doing me the honor of interviewing me in depth. Because it is Brian, I forget there is a camera there and say things I’ve never really shared honestly before...."

Where's the vomiting emoticon?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2014, 09:50:58 AM »
Schaeffer: "Here is one of my favorite people — Brian McLaren — doing me the honor of interviewing me in depth. Because it is Brian, I forget there is a camera there and say things I’ve never really shared honestly before...."

Where's the vomiting emoticon?
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Offline The young fogey

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2014, 10:15:02 AM »
Sure, it's a shame to watch him go down.

Last I heard, he was still Greek Orthodox but had lost his faith; he stayed because he likes the culture or something.

I didn't know about the disconnect between Francis Schaeffer (the father) and the religious right. I once heard Jerry Falwell praise him so I just assumed.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2014, 03:27:10 PM »
Well, pray for him but being culturally attached is a danger. I want to Catholicism for the romatciism of the the liturgy or culture. Being hung up on all that is not piety and dangerous. It is why I am not rushing into Orthodoxy. I feel my Russophillia is not a good enough reason to become Orthodox. Not sure what was in Mr. Shaeffer's reasons were, and I am sure there were genuine heartfelt reasons, but to make war on the religious right based on your own personal psychological issues....well, when I saw a video of Shaffaefer going on about all that, I knew he had issues that required a therapist. He tends to project all his own psychological sufferings on the religious right. I actually like a lot of what he has to say, but sometimes his way of saying it rings of hatred, a hatred he thinks he is condemning as right-wing hypocorisy when it is he is volatile. Lord have mercy on thy servant, Frank.
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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #70 on: July 17, 2014, 11:47:48 AM »
"It's who you are, that matters." -- Frank Schaeffer, Wild Goose, 2014
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 11:49:04 AM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #71 on: July 17, 2014, 12:02:32 PM »
Quote from: Mor Ephrem
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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2014, 01:19:36 AM »
"Wild Goose" is a strange name for a festival that I would never go to anyway.
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2014, 01:21:10 AM »
"Wild Goose" is a strange name for a festival that I would never go to anyway.

Why? It'd be a wild goose chase?
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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2014, 01:22:31 AM »
"Wild Goose" is a strange name for a festival that I would never go to anyway.

Why? It'd be a wild goose chase?

No, just spiritual hippies talking.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #75 on: July 20, 2014, 08:04:15 PM »
Quote
Excerpts from my interview with New York Times bestselling author Frank Schaeffer about his new book Why I’m an Atheist Who Believes in God.
....
Reba: There is a lot of paradox in your book, including the title.  How can the title be true?

Frank:  Simplicity is really a false avenue when it comes to who we are… I’ve never met an Atheist, and I’ve never met a Christian…these labels do not actually define anyone, because none of us are one thing to our core…
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #76 on: July 20, 2014, 08:42:38 PM »
Labels are descriptions of what people/things/etc. are or appear to be; obviously they don't define them and make them what they are (except perhaps on a personal/psychological level). Saying that you've never met an atheist because, for example, some of them sometimes have questions about faith or have some type of religious feelings is ridiculous. We use labels because they are helpful. In fact, they are necessary. That's how our mind works. 

From what Frank answers... Simplicity is a label. Really is a label. False is a label. Avenue is a label. When is a label. Comes is a label. Every word we use is a label or fill-in or catch-word for a concept or object or person or idea or whatever, or a word that helps connect them into some coherent whole. If he really believes that things shouldn't be so simple as he is saying, then he shouldn't call himself an author, a son, etc.
"My doubt in Christ is not like that of a child; it was forged in a furnace of faith." - Dostoevsky

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #77 on: July 20, 2014, 09:03:43 PM »
If he really believes that things shouldn't be so simple as he is saying, then he shouldn't call himself an author, a son, etc.
Sounds like apophatic theo...uh...anthropology...

which would make sense if we are in the image of God, and God is -- ultimately -- apophatic, beyond description.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 09:04:45 PM by Jetavan »
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #78 on: July 20, 2014, 10:19:11 PM »
Frank talks like a politician. It's not a good trait. In fact it's repulsive.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #79 on: July 20, 2014, 10:30:08 PM »
If he really believes that things shouldn't be so simple as he is saying, then he shouldn't call himself an author, a son, etc.
Sounds like apophatic theo...uh...anthropology...

which would make sense if we are in the image of God, and God is -- ultimately -- apophatic, beyond description.

I await those who hold to that position to stop bothering us with their jibber jabber then.  :P  ;D But for the rest of us, apophaticism is a tool, not a dogma.

Quote
But a man who states what God is not without going on to say what He is, acts much in the same way as one would who when asked how many twice five make, should answer, “Not two, nor three, nor four, nor five, nor twenty, nor thirty, nor in short any number below ten, nor any multiple of ten;” but would not answer “ten,” nor settle the mind of his questioner upon the firm ground of the answer. For it is much easier, and more concise to show what a thing is not from what it is, than to demonstrate what it is by stripping it of what it is not. And this surely is evident to every one.

-- St. Gregory the Theologian (d. c. 391), Oration 28.9
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Offline wainscottbl

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #80 on: July 20, 2014, 10:59:46 PM »
I see what Schaeffer is saying--religion and such terms can define us too much to the point we become like Pharisees, saying, "I am Orthodox." "I am Christian" without professing the true faith or being of Christ. But the Councils make clear there are certain things which are true doctrine and you confess those things as in the Creed and in the Councils. You detest what the Fathers have condemned in the Holy Councils as heretical and anathema, and you believe what they profess. Orthodoxy is not just about a pretty show where you can take your kids and feel good and welcomed, unlike those awful self-righteous Evangelical churches. I would ask if he is ready to sternly condemn the errors of various heresies, not because they displease him romanticism, but because they are false and ugly, outright blasphemy. Does he believe in "one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth and in Jesus Christ His Son, begotten of the Father before all the ages, God of God, True God of True God...not made in time nor of the father or less, but begotten of Him, one in the same divine essence with him." You know all that important stuff. Or is that just stuff the stuffy types talk about to turn atheists off?

« Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 11:00:47 PM by wainscottbl »
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

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Offline ShayneSwenson

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #81 on: July 26, 2014, 03:31:10 PM »
Frank was the first guy I looked into regarding "old school" christianity when I was an evangelical. Needless to say, I ran the other direction towards the catholic church due to what he had to say. He seemed more lost than me, even in the 90's. He is the incarnation of the "spirit of the age". He is walking, talking, post-modernism with a relativistic hard candy shell. Melts in your brain, not in your soul.
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Offline ShayneSwenson

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #82 on: July 26, 2014, 03:33:36 PM »
If Frank is the question, Chesterton is the answer. :-*
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:35:55 PM by ShayneSwenson »
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Offline Thomas

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Re: Frank Schaeffer is Orthodox
« Reply #83 on: July 26, 2014, 04:30:33 PM »
I amclosing this topic it seems to discussing and rediscussing the same thingover and over agian. The topic is truely dead and is Closed.

Thanks for participating.

Thomas
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