Orthodox Alien Abductions & Aliens Being Demons

[augustin717]

First though one needs to explain how an orthodox alien abduction would look like as opposed to a say a heterodox alien abduction.

[JamesR]

First though one needs to explain how an orthodox alien abduction would look like as opposed to a say a heterodox alien abduction.

The Orthodox: The aliens were REALLY there!!
The Heterodox: The aliens were there in a symbolic way!!

[theistgal]

JamesR, POTM!

[Achronos]

First though one needs to explain how an orthodox alien abduction would look like as opposed to a say a heterodox alien abduction.

The Orthodox: The aliens were REALLY there!!
The Heterodox: The aliens were there in a symbolic way!!

ROFL!!!

[yeshuaisiam]

After reading the article, I'm somewhat getting the gist that the Archbishop was referencing that Aliens were demons, or at least Orthodoxy Abductions by Aliens had some kind of demonic affect.

I'm not sure whether or not to give him credence on the article, or think "what the heck is an Archbishop doing writing about this".

There are documentaries on the subject on youtube about Aliens being demons...

Discuss?

There is a fairly large cultic type following of this stuff, so he probably speaks to it because it is relevant to the times in which we live.

Are you asking for people's opinions as to whether they agree with the Archbishop or something else? 

What do you think 'aliens' are?

Not entirely if they agree with him or not.  The subject is just bizarre to me.

Me, I personally believe that it is plausible that they could be demonic....

[yeshuaisiam]

I am sure that demons could fight with men. Didn't Jacob wrestle with an angel?
Demons are fallen angels.

If we beg Christ and the Theotokos for help, surely they will come to our aid.

If I ever run across an Alien/Demon or whatever, I'll let you know how the fight turns out.  If I win, I will take photos.  I'll even call the cops and have it locked up, but first I'm calling local TV.

However, I would admit, that would be an insanely scary experience.

[yeshuaisiam]

First though one needs to explain how an orthodox alien abduction would look like as opposed to a say a heterodox alien abduction.

The Orthodox: The aliens were REALLY there!!
The Heterodox: The aliens were there in a symbolic way!!

LOL!!!!

[JamesR]

If there was a demon living in my apartment, I think my first question would be where the rent money is; no one lives here free.

[Maria]

If there was a demon living in my apartment, I think my first question would be where the rent money is; no one lives here free.

If there were a demon living in your apartment, forget the rent. Leave and call the priest asap.



No, run and get the Holy Water! The demon really needs to be cooled down.
Holy water is your friend.

[orthonorm]

From what they say, the demons assault the most righteous the most.

So calm down and sin if cold fronts chase you around the garage. You find apparitions addressing you. Maybe lie a few times about your age, that would get you two for one. Perhaps, insult someone.

The demons should then leave you alone and go bother another poor soul trying to walk the straight and narrow.

Really, you should work up to epic battles with the forces of darkness.

I've yet had a demon bother me and I chalk it up to my incredible track record of being a rather miserable excuse for a human.

[Maria]

From what they say, the demons assault the most righteous the most.

So calm down and sin if cold fronts chase you around the garage. You find apparitions addressing you. Maybe lie a few times about your age, that would get you two for one. Perhaps, insult someone.

The demons should then leave you alone and go bother another poor soul trying to walk the straight and narrow.

Really, you should work up to epic battles with the forces of darkness.

I've yet had a demon bother me and I chalk it up to my incredible track record of being a rather miserable excuse for a human.

If I were a rich man ....

Hey, did you ever see that movie, Oh God, You Devil?

[JamesR]

If there was a demon living in my apartment, I think my first question would be where the rent money is; no one lives here free.

If there were a demon living in your apartment, forget the rent. Leave and call the priest asap.



No, run and get the Holy Water! The demon really needs to be cooled down.
Holy water is your friend.

I keep a bottle of it by my bedside with an Icon of St. George over my bed. Can demons enter rooms that have Icons?

[JamesR]

If I ever run across an Alien/Demon or whatever, I'll let you know how the fight turns out.

Don't bother going for the groin; I don't think they have genders.

[Maria]

If I ever run across an Alien/Demon or whatever, I'll let you know how the fight turns out.

Don't bother going for the groin; I don't think they have genders.

You'll always have the upper hand if you fight with Holy Water.
You can always put it in a squirt bottle to deliver a wonderful mist.

Some folks use those super soakers which deliver a deluge on the demons.
Only problem: who knows where they are? They could be hovering over your mom.

[JamesR]

who knows where they are? They could be hovering over your mom.

Could be, could be; afterall, she has rejected the Orthodox Church...

[Achronos]

From what they say, the demons assault the most righteous the most.

So calm down and sin if cold fronts chase you around the garage. You find apparitions addressing you. Maybe lie a few times about your age, that would get you two for one. Perhaps, insult someone.

The demons should then leave you alone and go bother another poor soul trying to walk the straight and narrow.

Really, you should work up to epic battles with the forces of darkness.

I've yet had a demon bother me and I chalk it up to my incredible track record of being a rather miserable excuse for a human.

orthonorm you are so demonically possessed already that I don't think it would matter.

[psalm110]

If there was a demon living in my apartment, I think my first question would be where the rent money is; no one lives here free.

If there were a demon living in your apartment, forget the rent. Leave and call the priest asap.



No, run and get the Holy Water! The demon really needs to be cooled down.
Holy water is your friend.

I keep a bottle of it by my bedside with an Icon of St. George over my bed. Can demons enter rooms that have Icons?

Yes, they enter in Church easily so I do not see any issue with them entering a room full of icons.

[Kerdy]

I was given this advice for when I see spirits. Ask them three questions, 1) who they are, 2) who sent them, and 3) what is their purpose. I have been told that an Angel or a positive presence will answer whereas an evil one will not. Having tried this myself, I have found that spirits who used to visit me regularly made their evil intent apparent then vanished once I knew to ask them these things.

I have heard this advice in almost the exact same way.  People will scoff, but it is a little difficult to scoff at something more than one person experiences at the same time. 

[psalm110]

I was given this advice for when I see spirits. Ask them three questions, 1) who they are, 2) who sent them, and 3) what is their purpose. I have been told that an Angel or a positive presence will answer whereas an evil one will not. Having tried this myself, I have found that spirits who used to visit me regularly made their evil intent apparent then vanished once I knew to ask them these things.

I have heard this advice in almost the exact same way.  People will scoff, but it is a little difficult to scoff at something more than one person experiences at the same time. 

I hope a priest can come in here and clarify that for certain, from listening and reading the experiences of the monks with demons, they said that the demons do not pray to God, does that mean they do not cross themselves or say the Lord Prays when you request them to do it as per you do is that one way of nothing for certainty its an evil spirit?.

[Kerdy]

I was given this advice for when I see spirits. Ask them three questions, 1) who they are, 2) who sent them, and 3) what is their purpose. I have been told that an Angel or a positive presence will answer whereas an evil one will not. Having tried this myself, I have found that spirits who used to visit me regularly made their evil intent apparent then vanished once I knew to ask them these things.

I have heard this advice in almost the exact same way.  People will scoff, but it is a little difficult to scoff at something more than one person experiences at the same time. 

I hope a priest can come in here and clarify that for certain, from listening and reading the experiences of the monks with demons, they said that the demons do not pray to God, does that mean they do not cross themselves or say the Lord Prays when you request them to do it as per you do is that one way of nothing for certainty its an evil spirit?.

I want to say I read it in a book written by Fr. Alexander Schmemann.  For the Life of the World, perhaps.  It read we must challenge any spirit we come across to determine if it was sent by God by simply asking the question up front.  If not, demand it leave.  The book also warned to be extremely cautious when this happens and not to engage evil spirits “in the flesh” of our own ability.  Perhaps someone else can remember where this was written.

[Hiwot]

If a demon lacks a physical body, then how could they physically abduct a human?

If ancient aliens didn't exist, how were the demons able to abduct Orthodox Christians?

is such a thing even possible? yes it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfSANfVf4-E

Lets not forget David Childress he clearly answers the burning question: what kind of power do you have to have to do that? .....the powers of an extra terristerial!? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKXbTJsnH-s (Warning : sexual humor included)

[Hiwot]

If a demon lacks a physical body, then how could they physically abduct a human?

If ancient aliens didn't exist, how were the demons able to abduct Orthodox Christians?

I've never seen this show or a clip of it and have only seen this internet bit here and yet I can't stop laughing everytime someone uses it. I think Nick or someone explained the context to me, but it really doesn't need any.

It might just be the unsignified signifier.

totally hilarious! especialy when the xhexy Giorgio and the melodramatic Childress get going. best cons for the job. their fallacious arguments will melt your brain cells but you will die grinning ear to ear.

[Maria]

I was given this advice for when I see spirits. Ask them three questions, 1) who they are, 2) who sent them, and 3) what is their purpose. I have been told that an Angel or a positive presence will answer whereas an evil one will not. Having tried this myself, I have found that spirits who used to visit me regularly made their evil intent apparent then vanished once I knew to ask them these things.

I have heard this advice in almost the exact same way.  People will scoff, but it is a little difficult to scoff at something more than one person experiences at the same time.  

I hope a priest can come in here and clarify that for certain, from listening and reading the experiences of the monks with demons, they said that the demons do not pray to God, does that mean they do not cross themselves or say the Lord Prays when you request them to do it as per you do is that one way of nothing for certainty its an evil spirit?.

I want to say I read it in a book written by Fr. Alexander Schmemann.  For the Life of the World, perhaps.  It read we must challenge any spirit we come across to determine if it was sent by God by simply asking the question up front.  If not, demand it leave.  The book also warned to be extremely cautious when this happens and not to engage evil spirits “in the flesh” of our own ability.  Perhaps someone else can remember where this was written.

Engaging demons in debate is not recommended. In other words, if a person is being tempted, he should not engage the Tempter. Instead, he should immediately pray the Jesus Prayer.

Just after the feast of the Theophany this year, my husband and I came home to the strong odor of cigar, which was in the middle of our living room. Since we and our neighbors do not smoke cigars, we had no clue from whence it came. However, it was also a very cold mass of air. Thus we both came to the conclusion that it must be evil, so we immediately emptied our new bottle of Holy Water into a new spray bottle, which we dedicated for this purpose, and then we sprayed that Holy Water while making the Sign of the Cross over that smelly mass of air. It immediately dispersed and the room was warm once again.

That incident reminded me of George Burn's movie, Oh God, You Devil.

[JamesR]

So wait, demons smoke cigars now? You sure it just wasn't my grandfather? Some would say he is evil as well.

[Shanghaiski]

I was given this advice for when I see spirits. Ask them three questions, 1) who they are, 2) who sent them, and 3) what is their purpose. I have been told that an Angel or a positive presence will answer whereas an evil one will not. Having tried this myself, I have found that spirits who used to visit me regularly made their evil intent apparent then vanished once I knew to ask them these things.

I have heard this advice in almost the exact same way.  People will scoff, but it is a little difficult to scoff at something more than one person experiences at the same time. 

I hope a priest can come in here and clarify that for certain, from listening and reading the experiences of the monks with demons, they said that the demons do not pray to God, does that mean they do not cross themselves or say the Lord Prays when you request them to do it as per you do is that one way of nothing for certainty its an evil spirit?.

I want to say I read it in a book written by Fr. Alexander Schmemann.  For the Life of the World, perhaps.  It read we must challenge any spirit we come across to determine if it was sent by God by simply asking the question up front.  If not, demand it leave.  The book also warned to be extremely cautious when this happens and not to engage evil spirits “in the flesh” of our own ability.  Perhaps someone else can remember where this was written.

I personally would not engage, but ignore it. I've read many accounts of good and bad spirits appearing to saints, but never read about them asking questions like that.

I remember hearing that the Lord appeard to a saint once--and it was the Lord, not a demon--and the saint, not trusting appearances, said, "I don't want to see you until I'm dead." The Lord blessed him and disappeared.

in another case with another saint, a demon appeared as an angel to bring good news. The saint said, "There must be some mistake. I'm not worthy that an angel should visit me."

[Jason.Wike]

Seems plausible. I've come to the conclusion that whatever aliens are they are most likely not interstellar travellers since their modus operandi doesn't match up. A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

Which leaves demons... or highly evolved time travelling frogs from earth's future.

[Jetavan]

A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

You assume that all aliens are from the same planet, or that they all have the same level of technological development.

[Jason.Wike]

A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

You assume that all aliens are from the same planet, or that they all have the same level of technological development.

Well, it would be like developing quantum computers and never developing the wheel to get to interstellar travel and skip out on basic remote sensing.

[yeshuaisiam]

A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

You assume that all aliens are from the same planet, or that they all have the same level of technological development.

All things considered, God never taught us anything of other life forms on other planets.   I really often do wonder if all these "alien" things are in fact demons.

Now, what about Job?

[Tallitot]

sleep paralysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

a more likely explanation then alien abduction.

[Jason.Wike]

sleep paralysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

a more likely explanation then alien abduction.

Only if the people were sleeping at the time it happens.

[orthonorm]

sleep paralysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

a more likely explanation then alien abduction.

I posted this in this thread or in another recent one about people having "super"natural experiences.

[jah777]

By Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna
http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/alien_abduct.aspx

After reading the article, I'm somewhat getting the gist that the Archbishop was referencing that Aliens were demons, or at least Orthodoxy Abductions by Aliens had some kind of demonic affect.

I'm not sure whether or not to give him credence on the article, or think "what the heck is an Archbishop doing writing about this".

There are documentaries on the subject on youtube about Aliens being demons...

Discuss?

As Abp Chrysostomos mentions, Fr. Seraphim wrote about this in his "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future".  This is a very good book and worth reading not only for his comments on this subject.

These sites appear to have brief excerpts from Fr. Seraphim's book on this subject:

http://www.alienresistance.org/ce4meaningufos.htm

http://philotimo-leventia.blogspot.com/2012/05/christian-interest-in-ufos-by-fr.html

As Fr. Seraphim says in one place:

This is very elementary. If you read any text of the early Fathers, any of the early Lives of Saints or the Lausiac History, you find many cases where beings suddenly appear. Nowadays they appear in spaceships because that’s how the demons have adapted themselves to the people of the times; but if you understand how spiritual deception works and what kind of wiles the devil has, then you have no problems in understanding what’s going on with these flying saucers.

[Kerdy]

sleep paralysis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

a more likely explanation then alien abduction.

Only if the people were sleeping at the time it happens.

And more than one person was doing it at the same time and seeing the exact same thing.  In other words, probably not this.

[JamesR]

Mass hysteria crowd-mentality? It's not too uncommon when one person freaks out hysterically and then the crowd follows his example and claims to have experienced the same thing. Not sure if it's true or not, but I once read about this one experiment a sociologist did in the former USSR where he chose a random building, stood in front of it, and within a day, something like twenty people were also standing behind him waiting for no reason.

[Velsigne]

Haven't had any little green people or flying saucer experiences, but have known people who have seen strange spacecraft and had experiences.  One is a freemason, one is a neo-pagan witch.  I worked with one guy who had no spiritual practice that I know of, and he had contact with them while driving down the road, if I remember correctly.  I don't know if he was abducted, but his eye had a tiny black circle in the iris after it happened.  He said it wasn't there before it happened.

He would get very agitated whenever the topic was brought up, and would go on and on about it.  He was absolutely convinced what had happened was real.  

It's probably not good stuff to get into, though it is entirely possible there are other sentient, carnal beings in the universe.  

From my own experience, things can look completely real, like a human, but you will know right off the bat that there is something terribly, terribly wrong.  It's probably how an animal feels in a trap when the fur trapper comes towering over them.


edit for stray random words (which should be for my entire post really)

[Asteriktos]

I was abducted by aliens one time. I asked if I could take their pic and they said no. Something about how they were ok with blurry images back in the day, but that technology was getting too advanced and they were using cloaking devices and allowing no photography now. I really wanted that pic!

[Maria]

I was abducted by aliens one time. I asked if I could take their pic and they said no. Something about how they were ok with blurry images back in the day, but that technology was getting too advanced and they were using cloaking devices and allowing no photography now. I really wanted that pic!

Were they hiding their horns and black wings with their big red cloak? 

[Asteriktos]

Don't be silly! They looked exactly like you'd expect. Apparently someone was able to sneak out with a pic at some point (probably those sneaky camera phone things), because I've seen them on the net. Here is one of them:



EDIT--Ignore the copyright info on the side of the pic, that's just the government trying to cover their tracks...

[Hiwot]

A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

You assume that all aliens are from the same planet, or that they all have the same level of technological development.

All things considered, God never taught us anything of other life forms on other planets.   I really often do wonder if all these "alien" things are in fact demons.

Now, what about Job?

what about him?

[Kerdy]

Mass hysteria crowd-mentality? It's not too uncommon when one person freaks out hysterically and then the crowd follows his example and claims to have experienced the same thing. Not sure if it's true or not, but I once read about this one experiment a sociologist did in the former USSR where he chose a random building, stood in front of it, and within a day, something like twenty people were also standing behind him waiting for no reason.

This is a rather poor example as the two are not the same.

[Maria]

Mass hysteria crowd-mentality? It's not too uncommon when one person freaks out hysterically and then the crowd follows his example and claims to have experienced the same thing. Not sure if it's true or not, but I once read about this one experiment a sociologist did in the former USSR where he chose a random building, stood in front of it, and within a day, something like twenty people were also standing behind him waiting for no reason.

This is a rather poor example as the two are not the same.

Mass hysteria crowd mentality is usually an excuse offered when psychiatrists cannot find any reason why several people become sickened.

Usually, to the embarrassment of the psychiatrists, there IS an odorless chemical leak, or some contamination present in the food, soil, or air that sickens the more susceptible individuals who may be atopic allergic or have chemical sensitivities.

So, whenever a shrink says that people are subjected to mass hysteria, I dismiss that claim as quackery. Those doctors should do their homework and really try to find the source of the illness, rather than dismiss it as idiopathic (an idiot of a pathologist).

Now, mass hysteria due to demonic activity probably is possible.
Could the herd of swine [mentioned in the Gospels] be said to become hysterical on their way to the sea where they drowned?

[Shanghaiski]

I was abducted by aliens one time. I asked if I could take their pic and they said no. Something about how they were ok with blurry images back in the day, but that technology was getting too advanced and they were using cloaking devices and allowing no photography now. I really wanted that pic!

Cloaking devices? Were they Romulans or Klingons? I like Romulans better, but there are some Orthodox liturgical translations into Klingon, making missionary activity a little easier Besides, the Romulans aren't known for steadfastness.

[Hiwot]

Seems plausible. I've come to the conclusion that whatever aliens are they are most likely not interstellar travellers since their modus operandi doesn't match up. A being capable of interstellar travel would not need to abduct people, probe them, creep in the dark, etc. They could see all the workings of a human being from orbit and disappear in plain day light.

Which leaves demons... or highly evolved time travelling frogs from earth's future.

If they are as smart as we expect them to be, then that would be a very smart thing to do, to keep the guinea pigs in the dark for the research, even use a double blind experiment when necessary that's where those in positions of influence come into play. you abduct people probe them and creep in the dark etc because it works to keep a certain order to things you want to continue to study in their normal habitat and echo system. rather than bulldozing their way in. don't u think? hmm..

[Hiwot]

Mass hysteria crowd-mentality? It's not too uncommon when one person freaks out hysterically and then the crowd follows his example and claims to have experienced the same thing. Not sure if it's true or not, but I once read about this one experiment a sociologist did in the former USSR where he chose a random building, stood in front of it, and within a day, something like twenty people were also standing behind him waiting for no reason.

This is a rather poor example as the two are not the same.

Mass hysteria crowd mentality is usually an excuse offered when psychiatrists cannot find any reason why several people become sickened.

Usually, to the embarrassment of the psychiatrists, there IS an odorless chemical leak, or some contamination present in the food, soil, or air that sickens the more susceptible individuals who may be atopic allergic or have chemical sensitivities.

So, whenever a shrink says that people are subjected to mass hysteria, I dismiss that claim as quackery. Those doctors should do their homework and really try to find the source of the illness, rather than dismiss it as idiopathic (an idiot of a pathologist).

Now, mass hysteria due to demonic activity probably is possible.
Could the herd of swine [mentioned in the Gospels] be said to become hysterical on their way to the sea where they drowned?

so you are not quite opposed to the possibility of mass hysteria occurring, only to the assigned source, if I have understood you correctly Maria.

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