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Author Topic: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members  (Read 8046 times) Average Rating: 0
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LBK
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« Reply #90 on: January 30, 2013, 07:05:50 AM »

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.

I know for a fact your supposition occurs in fact. And the effects of these encounters can be tragic for the victim later in life (but not long made apparent). Such predation can start very early. 

Sorry you're getting flack for posting the truth.

Heh. I'm old enough and ugly enough to not be offended. Comes with the territory of being a grumpy old fart.  Wink
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« Reply #91 on: January 30, 2013, 07:39:10 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

My dear A, you forget I'm MUCH older than you.  Kiss

And yet, those a quarter of your age seem to exercise more keen judgement when it comes to dealing with groups who have been for the most part on the short end of stick when it comes violence.

I make no distinction between unwanted sexual advances between straight males on females, lesbians against straight females, or homosexual males on straight male. Predatory sexual behavior is a violation, and all who are on the receiving end of such attacks (and they need not be violent) have the right and prerogative to fend off the perpetrator.

Or are certain people here wishing to make a distinction as to how homosexual and heterosexual predation be dealt with?  Angry

None of this is relevant to allowing gays in the boy scouts. Next...
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« Reply #92 on: January 30, 2013, 07:47:22 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

My dear A, you forget I'm MUCH older than you.  Kiss

And yet, those a quarter of your age seem to exercise more keen judgement when it comes to dealing with groups who have been for the most part on the short end of stick when it comes violence.

I make no distinction between unwanted sexual advances between straight males on females, lesbians against straight females, or homosexual males on straight male. Predatory sexual behavior is a violation, and all who are on the receiving end of such attacks (and they need not be violent) have the right and prerogative to fend off the perpetrator.

Or are certain people here wishing to make a distinction as to how homosexual and heterosexual predation be dealt with?  Angry

None of this is relevant to allowing gays in the boy scouts. Next...
Your thorough lack of understanding his position is not only part of the problem, but pretty much the entire problem.  How is this not relevant?  Do you not comprehend the purpose of the Boy Scouts in general?  I suppose it makes no difference at this station in history as the Boy Scouts have already sold out on almost every other founding principle on which they were established.  This is just one more rung removed from the ladder in the mission to make it two really tall and useless poles.
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« Reply #93 on: January 30, 2013, 08:03:04 AM »

Your thorough lack of understanding his position is not only part of the problem, but pretty much the entire problem.  How is this not relevant?  Do you not comprehend the purpose of the Boy Scouts in general?  I suppose it makes no difference at this station in history as the Boy Scouts have already sold out on almost every other founding principle on which they were established.  This is just one more rung removed from the ladder in the mission to make it two really tall and useless poles.
I loled.

So gay boys shouldn't be allowed because why again?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 08:03:21 AM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #94 on: January 30, 2013, 08:17:33 AM »

I don't see how supporting BSA means promoting homosexuality. The only potential issue I see is having a gay boy sleep in the same room/tent and/or use the same shower facilities at the same time as other boys, in which case, there could potentially be problems. That's why the boys and girls are divided. What could we do for homosexual members? Why not put homosexual boys into the girl scouts and homosexual girls into the boy scouts? Then again, the girls might feel uncomfortable having a boy--even if he is gay--constantly around them. And the lesbian girl could be raped by the boys.

Gay boy scouts have been sleeping in the same tents as straight boy scouts since the start of the scouting movement.
not openly they haven't. Sort of like stating the fact that every army has always had enemy agents in it.

Then we should take down the fences of our bases and let them all join.  Since they have always been there and stuff.
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« Reply #95 on: January 30, 2013, 08:39:56 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

Funny...I have met a lot.

Of course you have...  Roll Eyes

In the real world, however, statistics gathered show that homosexuals are far more often the victims of bullying rather than the perpetrators:

Among the findings of the 2009 Canadian Climate Survey on Homophobia:

59 per cent of LGBTQ high school students reported they were verbally harassed, compared to seven per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
25 per cent of LGBTQ students indicated being physically harassed due to their sexual orientation, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
31 per cent of LGBTQ students reported personal harassment on the internet or via text messaging, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
73 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they felt unsafe at school, compared to 20 per cent who did not.
51 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they did not feel accepted at school, compared to 19 per cent of non-LGBTQ students

A 2009 survey of U.S. students in Grades 6-12 also suggests being bullied at school is more likely for sexual minorities. Some key findings:

85 per cent of LGBTQ students reported being verbally harassed at school in the past year because of their sexual orientation.
40 per cent reported being physically harassed.
19 per cent reported being physically assaulted

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/29/gay-bullying-statistics.html
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« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2013, 08:46:05 AM »

Gay kids? Making sexual advances on the straight kids? LBK, you do realise they'd be outnumbered, shunned and outed if they tried that, all at once? If you're as much as SUSPECTED of having same-sex attraction in the Boy Scouts, you'd be lucky to last the week before running out of camp, screaming hysterically. And strangely enough, I did actually hear of that almost happening one year.
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« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2013, 08:50:03 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

Funny...I have met a lot.

Of course you have...  Roll Eyes

My mistake.  Apparently, I have not.  Thanks for correcting me.  Anything else I have not personally experienced I need to know about?

In the real world, however, statistics gathered show that all sorts of people are victims of bullying rather than the perpetrators.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 08:54:46 AM by Kerdy » Logged
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« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2013, 09:56:40 AM »

Gay kids? Making sexual advances on the straight kids? LBK, you do realise they'd be outnumbered, shunned and outed if they tried that, all at once? If you're as much as SUSPECTED of having same-sex attraction in the Boy Scouts, you'd be lucky to last the week before running out of camp, screaming hysterically. And strangely enough, I did actually hear of that almost happening one year.
Sorry to ruin your scholastic exercise, but yes, "gay kids making sexual advances on the straight kids" happens.

Btw, the Human Sexuality (re)education course at DePaul used to tell the straight students to take it as a compliment.
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« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2013, 09:57:56 AM »

The ridiculous objection of "what if the gay kid's a bully?" is such an absurd, flamboyant, dazzling non sequitur, one might call it "fabulous"
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« Reply #100 on: January 30, 2013, 09:59:00 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

Funny...I have met a lot.

Of course you have...  Roll Eyes

In the real world, however, statistics gathered show that homosexuals are far more often the victims of bullying rather than the perpetrators:

Among the findings of the 2009 Canadian Climate Survey on Homophobia:

59 per cent of LGBTQ high school students reported they were verbally harassed, compared to seven per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
25 per cent of LGBTQ students indicated being physically harassed due to their sexual orientation, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
31 per cent of LGBTQ students reported personal harassment on the internet or via text messaging, compared to eight per cent of non-LGBTQ students.
73 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they felt unsafe at school, compared to 20 per cent who did not.
51 per cent of LGBTQ students reported they did not feel accepted at school, compared to 19 per cent of non-LGBTQ students

A 2009 survey of U.S. students in Grades 6-12 also suggests being bullied at school is more likely for sexual minorities. Some key findings:

85 per cent of LGBTQ students reported being verbally harassed at school in the past year because of their sexual orientation.
40 per cent reported being physically harassed.
19 per cent reported being physically assaulted

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/29/gay-bullying-statistics.html
Darrell Huff "How to Lie with Statistics" Penguin Books 1973

http://archive.org/details/HowToLieWithStatistics

your survey didn't ask them about bullying heterosexuals, now, did it?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2013, 10:00:31 AM by ialmisry » Logged

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« Reply #101 on: January 30, 2013, 10:03:51 AM »

The ridiculous objection of "what if the gay kid's a bully?" is such an absurd, flamboyant, dazzling non sequitur, one might call it "fabulous"
in a world that takes gay "marriage" as normal, everything is "fabulous."  Or rather, nothing is fabulous.
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« Reply #102 on: January 30, 2013, 10:07:00 AM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

My dear A, you forget I'm MUCH older than you.  Kiss

And yet, those a quarter of your age seem to exercise more keen judgement when it comes to dealing with groups who have been for the most part on the short end of stick when it comes violence.

I make no distinction between unwanted sexual advances between straight males on females, lesbians against straight females, or homosexual males on straight male. Predatory sexual behavior is a violation, and all who are on the receiving end of such attacks (and they need not be violent) have the right and prerogative to fend off the perpetrator.

Or are certain people here wishing to make a distinction as to how homosexual and heterosexual predation be dealt with?  Angry

None of this is relevant to allowing gays in the boy scouts. Next...
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« Reply #103 on: January 30, 2013, 10:10:18 AM »

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.

I know for a fact your supposition occurs in fact. And the effects of these encounters can be tragic for the victim later in life (but not long made apparent). Such predation can start very early. 

Sorry you're getting flack for posting the truth.
I remember a number of such incidents occuring in the psych history of a number of our patients when I worked in the locked unit of the Psych hospital.
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« Reply #104 on: January 30, 2013, 10:12:41 AM »

Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
Only when the straight boy is sexually attracted to gay boys.
So it is fine if the straight boy is sexually attracted to straight girls?
As long as you don't allow the straight boy and the straight girl to sleep in the same tent.
If we let the gay boy sleep in the same tent with the straight boy (let alone with another gay boy), why not?
What about mutual attraction do you not understand? Boys and girls are made to be mutually attracted to each other for the propagation of our race. Two gay boys or two lesbian girls may likely become mutually attracted to each other. But a gay boy and a straight boy? If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

It will also get him kicked out of the scouts, his parents taken to court, and him belittled as a bigot, hater and homophobe...unjustly, but then again, who cares about that as long as the homosexuals get what they want.
surely such things NEVER happen Roll Eyes
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« Reply #105 on: January 30, 2013, 10:13:40 AM »

Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

It became comparable right around the same time someone created the phrase.
+1
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« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2013, 12:02:58 PM »

What if the gay boy is tougher than the other boys and rapes someone?

I don't want to turn into someone always complaining that people don't use enough emoticons, but in this thread it getting tough to know which posts are sarcastic and which are serious.
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« Reply #107 on: January 30, 2013, 12:12:25 PM »

What if the gay boy is tougher than the other boys and rapes someone?

I don't want to turn into someone always complaining that people don't use enough emoticons, but in this thread it getting tough to know which posts are sarcastic and which are serious.

I'd say it's a serious problem to consider. What are we to do about hulking gay giants from the Hyperborean wastes who want to join the Boy Scouts with mighty sword in hand? Do we leave them out to endure the elements at night? Do we simply form a separate troop entirely for such boys, and stay well clear of them as they hack their way through the Appalachian trail?
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« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2013, 03:17:10 PM »

What if the gay boy is tougher than the other boys and rapes someone?

I don't want to turn into someone always complaining that people don't use enough emoticons, but in this thread it getting tough to know which posts are sarcastic and which are serious.

I'd say it's a serious problem to consider. What are we to do about hulking gay giants from the Hyperborean wastes who want to join the Boy Scouts with mighty sword in hand? Do we leave them out to endure the elements at night? Do we simply form a separate troop entirely for such boys, and stay well clear of them as they hack their way through the Appalachian trail?
they already have that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNfGiEHuUg
WARNING: Broke Back Mountain, the "Tent Scene."
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« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2013, 03:20:44 PM »

they already have that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNfGiEHuUg
WARNING: Broke Back Mountain, the "Tent Scene."
great movie.  powerful and compassionate story.  ang lee is awesome
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« Reply #110 on: January 30, 2013, 03:28:26 PM »

they already have that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNfGiEHuUg
WARNING: Broke Back Mountain, the "Tent Scene."
great movie.  powerful and compassionate story.  ang lee is awesome
Would Alma and Lureen see it that way?  Should they?
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« Reply #111 on: January 30, 2013, 03:50:40 PM »

they already have that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qNfGiEHuUg
WARNING: Broke Back Mountain, the "Tent Scene."
great movie.  powerful and compassionate story.  ang lee is awesome
Would Alma and Lureen see it that way?  Should they?

absolutely not.  they were devastated.  Notice, I just said that the movie was compassionate, not that the characters always made the right choices.  Ang Lee's FILM is compassionate.

For Alma and Lureen, too.
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« Reply #112 on: January 30, 2013, 03:55:04 PM »

Gay kids? Making sexual advances on the straight kids? LBK, you do realise they'd be outnumbered, shunned and outed if they tried that, all at once? If you're as much as SUSPECTED of having same-sex attraction in the Boy Scouts, you'd be lucky to last the week before running out of camp, screaming hysterically. And strangely enough, I did actually hear of that almost happening one year.
Sorry to ruin your scholastic exercise, but yes, "gay kids making sexual advances on the straight kids" happens.

Btw, the Human Sexuality (re)education course at DePaul used to tell the straight students to take it as a compliment.

The "scholastic exercise" is from personal experience, something you might lack in the matter. We're talking specifically about within the Boy Scouts here. I will admit I do not have the proper knowledge to verify outside of that area. Let me rephrase what I said; sexual advances do happen, but they NEVER end well, and that's why they're mostly avoided. Mostly any advances are made in the hope that the straight guy isn't straight. This usually ends in two ways- one,  the straight guy curtly shoots him down. In the other, the gay guy gets clobbered, taunted, outed and humiliated, usually one after another. I've seen it happen before, and I'm quite sure I'll see it happen again.
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« Reply #113 on: January 30, 2013, 04:14:58 PM »

Gay kids? Making sexual advances on the straight kids? LBK, you do realise they'd be outnumbered, shunned and outed if they tried that, all at once? If you're as much as SUSPECTED of having same-sex attraction in the Boy Scouts, you'd be lucky to last the week before running out of camp, screaming hysterically. And strangely enough, I did actually hear of that almost happening one year.
Sorry to ruin your scholastic exercise, but yes, "gay kids making sexual advances on the straight kids" happens.

Btw, the Human Sexuality (re)education course at DePaul used to tell the straight students to take it as a compliment.

The "scholastic exercise" is from personal experience, something you might lack in the matter.
You seemed to categorically deny that gay kids make sexual advances on straight kids.  How does one have personal experience from non-existent events?

Kerdy said it best:
My mistake.  Apparently, I have not.  Thanks for correcting me.  Anything else I have not personally experienced I need to know about?

We're talking specifically about within the Boy Scouts here. I will admit I do not have the proper knowledge to verify outside of that area. Let me rephrase what I said; sexual advances do happen, but they NEVER end well, and that's why they're mostly avoided. Mostly any advances are made in the hope that the straight guy isn't straight. This usually ends in two ways- one,  the straight guy curtly shoots him down. In the other, the gay guy gets clobbered, taunted, outed and humiliated, usually one after another. I've seen it happen before, and I'm quite sure I'll see it happen again.
and the boys scouts is the appropriate place to make sexual advances why again?
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« Reply #114 on: January 30, 2013, 04:23:01 PM »

Never said it didn't happen; forgive me if that was the implication. I just haven't seen a lot of them happen IN THE BOY SCOUTS. I have seen such advances outside boy Scouts. I said it was mostly avoided, however, because 1. It's really not a good idea. and 2. and that any said advances did not end well. Implying that they were not appropriate.
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« Reply #115 on: January 30, 2013, 04:31:38 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
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« Reply #116 on: January 30, 2013, 08:41:03 PM »

I don't see how supporting BSA means promoting homosexuality. The only potential issue I see is having a gay boy sleep in the same room/tent and/or use the same shower facilities at the same time as other boys, in which case, there could potentially be problems. That's why the boys and girls are divided.
I see you don't understand the concept of mutual attraction, either. Roll Eyes Personally, I don't have a problem with a gay boy sleeping in the same tent as a straight boy and using the same facilities as the straight boys unless one or more of the boys, gay or straight, causes a problem. I just wouldn't put two gay boys in the same tent.

What if the gay boy is tougher than the other boys and rapes someone?
Well, then, that's a problem. But why create such problems before they actually happen?
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« Reply #117 on: January 30, 2013, 08:46:53 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.
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« Reply #118 on: January 30, 2013, 08:48:46 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.

Peter, we need to have a LONG talk.

And really, you of all people committing such a misstep in logic?
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« Reply #119 on: January 30, 2013, 08:50:48 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.

Maybe because I am a teenager with raging hormones and know how despicable we are? Then again, adults are the same way; they're just better at hiding it.
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« Reply #120 on: January 30, 2013, 08:58:16 PM »

And what is it with this romanticized, innocent 1950s view of youth that so many folks on here have with teenagers? We're not that great. We have sex (or at least think about it all the time), get pregnant, do drugs, sneak out, get drunk, argue with our parents, vandalize private property etc. We're not good people.
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« Reply #121 on: January 30, 2013, 10:55:07 PM »

Quote
If the gay boy becomes attracted to the straight boy, a quick punch in the nuts from the straight boy will put an end to that right quick!

... if the straight boy has enough gumption to do it, sure. And he should!

Sadly, that's not always the case, especially if the straight boy is younger, smaller, or susceptible to bullying and coercion.
This is naive.
I still think this is relevant, but when I was a kid and we knew another boy was gay, yeah they were pretty much bullied nonstop.

Gays can be bullies just as much as straights. I'm not naive, I speak from experience which is much longer than yours.  Wink
I've never met a single gay bully in my life. Are they the new boogeymen?

My dear A, you forget I'm MUCH older than you.  Kiss

And yet, those a quarter of your age seem to exercise more keen judgement when it comes to dealing with groups who have been for the most part on the short end of stick when it comes violence.

I make no distinction between unwanted sexual advances between straight males on females, lesbians against straight females, or homosexual males on straight male. Predatory sexual behavior is a violation, and all who are on the receiving end of such attacks (and they need not be violent) have the right and prerogative to fend off the perpetrator.

Or are certain people here wishing to make a distinction as to how homosexual and heterosexual predation be dealt with?  Angry

What do you consider a "sexual advance" to be?

Are you serious?

Yes
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« Reply #122 on: January 31, 2013, 01:11:45 AM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.

Peter, we need to have a LONG talk.

And really, you of all people committing such a misstep in logic?
Actually not a misstep, in that all it takes is one contrary example to disprove JamesR's hasty generalization. police
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« Reply #123 on: January 31, 2013, 03:02:40 AM »

There is an ongoing misconception in this thread: As a former Adult Leader, to the best of my knowledge,the BSA does not prohibit gay kids from becoming scouts. The BSA does not inquire about a.potential scouts sexual orientation.  The rule only applies to the adult leaders.
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« Reply #124 on: January 31, 2013, 03:09:38 AM »

There is an ongoing misconception in this thread: As a former Adult Leader, to the best of my knowledge,the BSA does not prohibit gay kids from becoming scouts. The BSA does not inquire about a.potential scouts sexual orientation.  The rule only applies to the adult leaders.

Then why exactly was an openly gay scout recently denied Eagle Scout on the basis of his sexual orientation?
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« Reply #125 on: January 31, 2013, 03:13:46 AM »

There is an ongoing misconception in this thread: As a former Adult Leader, to the best of my knowledge,the BSA does not prohibit gay kids from becoming scouts. The BSA does not inquire about a.potential scouts sexual orientation.  The rule only applies to the adult leaders.
To the contrary, the Boy Scouts DO ban those boys they know to be gay and will expel those who "come out of the closet". They may not ask a boy about his sexual orientation, but they certainly take action against those boys who tell the truth about themselves.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:16:34 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #126 on: January 31, 2013, 04:32:14 AM »

I do not recall seeing anything in the (scout's) application, the Boy Scout Manual, or in the youth protection classes I took.  Nor did I observe anything to indicate that a boy could be banned from scouting for sexual orientation. However, I was only involved with my local troop. Can you cite anything from an official Boy Scout source?  This is the closest thing I can find on the subject, and I can't find anything to indicate a boy has ever had his membership revoked because of his sexual orientation.  (Scouts Helping Scouts, a website associated with Venturing)
http://www.venturingbsa.com/scouting.d/faq.d/issues.d/homosexuality.html
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 04:58:47 AM by mark thomas » Logged

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« Reply #127 on: January 31, 2013, 08:20:55 AM »

Southern Baptists could stop sponsoring BSA units, and instead adopt the "Royal Ambassadors":

Quote
"Royal Ambassadors espouses many of the same virtues and character-building activities that are found in Boy Scouts but with the added benefit for Southern Baptists that our primary goal is developing boys into men who understand the mission of God and carry the Gospel with them into the world," commented Richard Bodenhamer, a marketing specialist at Woman's Missionary Union, an auxiliary to the Southern Baptist Convention based in Birmingham, Ala.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2013, 08:22:05 AM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #128 on: January 31, 2013, 11:35:15 AM »

@JamesRottnek - Your post is the first I've heard of this, so I looked it up. It appears I may be incorrect about scout membership rules,  though I still can't find anything on an official BSA site.  As to the young man denied his Eagle,  it appears he also openly stated he disagreed with the Scout's policy regarding duty to God, (that alone is valid grounds for denial) and there are conflicting reports as to wether he submitted for his Eagle before his 18th birthday. I did see that his sexual orientation was cited as grounds for denial as well.

I guess all I can add is that when I was involved in Scouting, I observed a culture that was a lot more tolerant than his case (or most of the stuff posted on this thread) would reflect.
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« Reply #129 on: January 31, 2013, 02:29:19 PM »

I do not recall seeing anything in the (scout's) application, the Boy Scout Manual, or in the youth protection classes I took.  Nor did I observe anything to indicate that a boy could be banned from scouting for sexual orientation. However, I was only involved with my local troop. Can you cite anything from an official Boy Scout source?  This is the closest thing I can find on the subject, and I can't find anything to indicate a boy has ever had his membership revoked because of his sexual orientation.  (Scouts Helping Scouts, a website associated with Venturing)
http://www.venturingbsa.com/scouting.d/faq.d/issues.d/homosexuality.html
I've not been involved in any way with the Boy Scouts since I left as a Star scout at the age of 15, so I don't know the more recent BSA manuals. Therefore, I can't say I know of any official BSA document that says a scout can be expelled from the Boy Scouts for revealing that he's gay, but I am familiar enough with the news to know that scouts have been expelled for revealing that they're gay.
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« Reply #130 on: February 01, 2013, 12:24:36 AM »

Is it natural that my parents have actually asked me in the past on more than one occassion if I was gay because I'm "too quiet" and "never with a girl"?
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« Reply #131 on: February 01, 2013, 04:32:12 AM »

Is it natural that my parents have actually asked me in the past on more than one occassion if I was gay because I'm "too quiet" and "never with a girl"?
No, it's just because you're weird, just like me. Wink
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« Reply #132 on: February 01, 2013, 04:48:48 AM »

Southern Baptists could stop sponsoring BSA units, and instead adopt the "Royal Ambassadors":

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"Royal Ambassadors espouses many of the same virtues and character-building activities that are found in Boy Scouts but with the added benefit for Southern Baptists that our primary goal is developing boys into men who understand the mission of God and carry the Gospel with them into the world," commented Richard Bodenhamer, a marketing specialist at Woman's Missionary Union, an auxiliary to the Southern Baptist Convention based in Birmingham, Ala.

Whatever is best for the kids, and the Boy Scouts seem not to be that at all.
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« Reply #133 on: February 01, 2013, 11:39:29 AM »

Southern Baptists could stop sponsoring BSA units, and instead adopt the "Royal Ambassadors":

Quote
"Royal Ambassadors espouses many of the same virtues and character-building activities that are found in Boy Scouts but with the added benefit for Southern Baptists that our primary goal is developing boys into men who understand the mission of God and carry the Gospel with them into the world," commented Richard Bodenhamer, a marketing specialist at Woman's Missionary Union, an auxiliary to the Southern Baptist Convention based in Birmingham, Ala.
I was under the impression that the RAs were an SBC program.
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« Reply #134 on: February 01, 2013, 11:49:09 AM »

Southern Baptists could stop sponsoring BSA units, and instead adopt the "Royal Ambassadors":

Quote
"Royal Ambassadors espouses many of the same virtues and character-building activities that are found in Boy Scouts but with the added benefit for Southern Baptists that our primary goal is developing boys into men who understand the mission of God and carry the Gospel with them into the world," commented Richard Bodenhamer, a marketing specialist at Woman's Missionary Union, an auxiliary to the Southern Baptist Convention based in Birmingham, Ala.
I was under the impression that the RAs were an SBC program.
Yep, it is.
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