Author Topic: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members  (Read 16090 times)

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Offline Jetavan

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Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« on: January 29, 2013, 09:22:59 AM »
Quote
The Boy Scout of America [BSA] is considering ending its longstanding national membership restrictions based on sexual orientation.

Under the change now being discussed, the different religious and civic groups that sponsor Scout units would be able to decide for themselves how to address the issue — either maintaining an exclusion of gays or opening up their membership.

One Catholic commentator predicted that if the BSA go through with this, then the BSA would be excluded from Catholic parishes, since to sponsor a BSA unit would be to cooperate with a group that supports what is considered an immoral position.

Do Orthodox parishes have BSA units, and would this potential change affect Orthodox-BSA relationships?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 09:23:59 AM by Jetavan »
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2013, 09:29:49 AM »
My GOA parish did, but that was nearly a half-century ago though. I'll check later to see if it is still active. It was a very large troop back in the early 60's.

No way to answer your second question from here.
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2013, 10:32:59 AM »
The BSA currently allows Muslims, Protestants, Jews and Buddhists to join. Does that mean that Catholic churches that host BSA troops are endorsing those positions?

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2013, 10:42:27 AM »
The BSA currently allows Muslims, Protestants, Jews and Buddhists to join. Does that mean that Catholic churches that host BSA troops are endorsing those positions?
True. I think the Catholic commentator is being a bit too dramatic.
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2013, 10:56:42 AM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2013, 11:08:23 AM »
Quote
The Boy Scout of America [BSA] is considering ending its longstanding national membership restrictions based on sexual orientation.

Under the change now being discussed, the different religious and civic groups that sponsor Scout units would be able to decide for themselves how to address the issue — either maintaining an exclusion of gays or opening up their membership.

One Catholic commentator predicted that if the BSA go through with this, then the BSA would be excluded from Catholic parishes, since to sponsor a BSA unit would be to cooperate with a group that supports what is considered an immoral position.

Do Orthodox parishes have BSA units, and would this potential change affect Orthodox-BSA relationships?

The Girl Scouts did this years ago, neither the Orthodox or Catholic Churches disaffiliated with them.  Most seem unaware that the local Chartering Organization has complete control over the troop.  They approve leadership and can, although this very rare nowadays, have a closed troop for oly members of that faith.
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2013, 11:27:53 AM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 11:28:22 AM by Iconodule »

Offline genesisone

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2013, 11:50:18 AM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?
When it becomes the all encompassing focus of your being and energies.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2013, 12:56:27 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 12:57:16 PM by ialmisry »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2013, 01:15:51 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline theistgal

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2013, 01:19:40 PM »
I think the Church's concern is that they assume all gay men are potentially pedophiles, who want to hang out with boys, and of course we just can't have that. (any more)
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Offline stavros_388

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2013, 01:45:34 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?

  :laugh:
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2013, 02:04:03 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?

  :laugh:
The lawsuits have reminded the Vatican of that.
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2013, 02:04:32 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
Only when the straight boy is sexually attracted to gay boys.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2013, 02:38:05 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
Only when the straight boy is sexually attracted to gay boys.
So it is fine if the straight boy is sexually attracted to straight girls?
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 02:43:22 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

Since people started worshipping it.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 02:46:49 PM »
I think the Church's concern is that they assume all gay men are potentially pedophiles, who want to hang out with boys, and of course we just can't have that. (any more)

Well, there are lawsuits against the BSA for pedophiles preying on boys, IIRC.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2013, 02:48:07 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

And since when is it considered sinful? I think David Gibson's opinion represents only a minute fraction of Catholics. (I guess I'm not telling you anything you haven't already figured out.)
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2013, 02:49:36 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

Since people started worshipping it.

:D

But, seriously, it would then follow that the sun is a religion, since there have been people who worshiped it.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 02:50:48 PM by Peter J »
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Offline Deep Roots

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2013, 02:56:28 PM »
the world is totes going to end.  Gayz!!
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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2013, 05:16:50 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
Only when the straight boy is sexually attracted to gay boys.
So it is fine if the straight boy is sexually attracted to straight girls?
As long as you don't allow the straight boy and the straight girl to sleep in the same tent.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2013, 05:19:35 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2013, 05:22:15 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?

Really, what is more gay than the Boy Scouts other than parades?
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Offline Deep Roots

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2013, 05:47:28 PM »
Orthonorm, your sig is great. Great juxtaposition.
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2013, 05:52:24 PM »
I will never get this whole thing. I mean, I was in the Boy Scouts for six years- and left because of the all-Protestants troop's attitude towards Orthodox and Catholics, not their position towards gay scouts. I mean, I'm bisexual and there was never a problem- of course, none of them were ever exactly what I would call attractive anyway, so that bit never had a reason to come out.
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Offline tuesdayschild

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2013, 06:08:03 PM »
Really, what is more gay than the Boy Scouts other than parades?


Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2013, 06:11:31 PM »
Really, what is more gay than the Boy Scouts other than parades?



Isn't one of them a boy scout? The Village People is sorta like combining the worst of both worlds.
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2013, 06:11:47 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?

My gay agenda for the rest of day:
Finish laundry
Put dishes away
Feed dogs
Do an online course for job
Study Hebrew
Force everyone else to become gay married
Watch NOVA
Say prayers
Go to sleep
Proverbs 22:7

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2013, 06:13:01 PM »
I will never get this whole thing. I mean, I was in the Boy Scouts for six years- and left because of the all-Protestants troop's attitude towards Orthodox and Catholics, not their position towards gay scouts. I mean, I'm bisexual and there was never a problem- of course, none of them were ever exactly what I would call attractive anyway, so that bit never had a reason to come out.

One day you too will be able to be officially within the Boy Scouts while being shunned for being bi.

Free at last!
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2013, 06:15:00 PM »
I will never get this whole thing. I mean, I was in the Boy Scouts for six years- and left because of the all-Protestants troop's attitude towards Orthodox and Catholics, not their position towards gay scouts. I mean, I'm bisexual and there was never a problem- of course, none of them were ever exactly what I would call attractive anyway, so that bit never had a reason to come out.

One day you too will be able to be officially within the Boy Scouts while being shunned for being bi.

Free at last!

Yes, because exhanging one shunning for another will be so tremendously fun.  ::)
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2013, 06:15:50 PM »
I will never get this whole thing. I mean, I was in the Boy Scouts for six years- and left because of the all-Protestants troop's attitude towards Orthodox and Catholics, not their position towards gay scouts. I mean, I'm bisexual and there was never a problem- of course, none of them were ever exactly what I would call attractive anyway, so that bit never had a reason to come out.

One day you too will be able to be officially within the Boy Scouts while being shunned for being bi.

Free at last!

Yes, because exhanging one shunning for another will be so tremendously fun.  ::)

Irony.

Learn it soon.
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2013, 06:18:25 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=49533.msg872273#msg872273 date=1359497750 [/quote

Irony.

Learn it soon.

Sarcasm.
Learned it over ten years ago.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 06:19:14 PM by brastaseptim »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2013, 06:33:02 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?

My gay agenda for the rest of day:
Finish gay laundry
Put gay dishes away
Feed gay dogs
Do a gay online course for job
Study gay Hebrew
Force everyone else to become gay married
Watch gay NOVA
Say gay prayers
Go to gay sleep
Fixed that for you so that it properly demonstrates how being gay is the core of everything you do.

Because if that’s not the case, your gay day seems strikingly like my straight day (minus the Jew-y stuff), and that makes me as a Straight-American uncomfortable.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 06:35:11 PM by Agabus »
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2013, 06:33:43 PM »
Quote from: orthonorm link=topic=49533.msg872273#msg872273 date=1359497750 [/quote

Irony.

Learn it soon.

Sarcasm.
Learned it over ten years ago.

Now work on that quote tag!
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2013, 06:33:54 PM »
Really, what is more gay than the Boy Scouts other than parades?



Isn't one of them a boy scout? The Village People is sorta like combining the worst of both worlds.
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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2013, 06:34:23 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?

My gay agenda for the rest of day:
Finish gay laundry
Put gay dishes away
Feed gay dogs
Do a gay online course for job
Study gay Hebrew
Force everyone else to become gay married
Watch gay NOVA
Say gay prayers
Go to gay sleep
Fixed that for you so that it properly demonstrates how being gay is the core of everything you do.

This thread gets more awesomer.
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Offline brastaseptim

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2013, 06:37:15 PM »

This thread gets more awesomer.
[/quote]
Or just more stranger. And I STILL cannot work that quote tag!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 06:39:17 PM by brastaseptim »
BBC news certified; The Guardian rejected; OC.net approved.

Offline Tallitot

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2013, 07:28:44 PM »
deleted wrong thread
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 07:29:06 PM by Tallitot »
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Offline theistgal

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2013, 07:44:02 PM »
NOVA is pretty gay.  :D
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2013, 07:47:02 PM »
NOVA is pretty gay.  :D
How's this...'watch Downton Abbey".
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 07:47:34 PM by Tallitot »
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2013, 08:56:19 PM »
NOVA is pretty gay.  :D
How's this...'watch Downton Abbey".
Though Downton Abbey seems like it would have some gay points attached to it, the gay guy in it is kind of a villain, thus undermining the gay television agenda. Gay.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2013, 09:14:31 PM »
Since when is "sexual orientation" comparable to a religion?

For some people it seems they are identical, since this is the only thing their religion seems to care about. But never mind that...

The argument is, "If an organization allows someone who is x to be a member, then hosting that organization means endorsing x." You either take that logic to its ultimate, silly conclusion or you shouldn't employ it at all.
To answer the original question, when it has an agenda.

And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

Now, if you let an openly gay scout in, you're going to either a) have to him sleep in the same tent as the other boy(s) or b) have him sleep by himself.  b somewhat contradicts the whole point of scouting. a raising the question of why they couldn't have a girl sleep in the same tent (they've already had the battle of girls being let into Boy Scouts.

Do I have to explain to the silly why a Church would have a problem with that?
The Church has a problem with a gay person sleeping in the same tent as a straight person?
Only when the straight boy is sexually attracted to gay boys.
So it is fine if the straight boy is sexually attracted to straight girls?
As long as you don't allow the straight boy and the straight girl to sleep in the same tent.
If we let the gay boy sleep in the same tent with the straight boy (let alone with another gay boy), why not?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2013, 09:15:36 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?

My gay agenda for the rest of day:
Finish laundry
Put dishes away
Feed dogs
Do an online course for job
Study Hebrew
Force everyone else to become gay married
Watch NOVA
Say prayers
Go to sleep
with whom?
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

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Re: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2013, 09:19:45 PM »
And the gays in this case certainly have an agenda.

And what is on that agenda for August 14th 2014 at 14:00?

My gay agenda for the rest of day:
Finish laundry
Put dishes away
Feed dogs
Do an online course for job
Study Hebrew
Force everyone else to become gay married
Watch NOVA
Say prayers
Go to sleep

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