OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 21, 2014, 04:32:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members  (Read 10435 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #315 on: February 03, 2013, 02:53:56 AM »

The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

Incorrect.  He was Orthodox, a Christian, a monk, a child of God. 

But still a homosexual.
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #316 on: February 03, 2013, 03:18:33 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #317 on: February 03, 2013, 03:20:25 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.
What? I'd make one of my own children "Homeless" to prove a point? Absolutely not!

What the hell is wrong with some of these posters on here to make some of the statements like this?

Oh right, I know......that "mental disorder" thing.

Good luck with that.

Just a bit for clarification: James was not talking about you, rather James, in his use of the pronoun "his", was referring to yeah, whom has, in fact, said this. He was adding onto his "list" of people he wishes would have gay(the word I will be using, feel free to change it to homosexual if it makes you feel better) children, which consists of kerry, and yes, you, and now yesh onto that list.

Actually I was saying I would feel very badly for the child of any of them, if they were gay.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #318 on: February 03, 2013, 03:27:53 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.
When did he say this? Can you quote the post?
Logged
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #319 on: February 03, 2013, 03:28:12 AM »

For the record, as I have already stated my brother is homosexual, other than our father, I was the last one in the family he told.  He didn’t even tell me until I finally just asked him outright.  I asked him why he took so long (other family members knew years prior) and he said it was because I am a political conservative (formerly extremely active) and military disciplined.  I looked at him and asked, “Aren’t you conservative and military disciplined, too?”  I was also a youth minister and he felt, likely as a result of all of his friends, I would disown him.  I looked him in his eyes and said, “You know my views and they will not change, but you are family.  I am not going to disown you because of this.  Of course, there will be basic rules for when you are around my kids, but you are a big boy and must live with the choices you make.”

We never have had a problem because of him being homosexual.  In fact, he thinks most of the rhetoric being spewed from the propaganda machines is stupid.  You see, he thinks for himself.  He is not supportive of homosexual marriage, civil unions yes.  He sees what is going on and he is disgusted.  He ended a very long relationship because his partner couldn’t keep his zipper up and coincidentally, according to him, very few can.  He gets tired of being asked for a romp in the sack on a first meeting and the list goes on, so I know just how snug the stereotypes actually do fit.  In large, this community is extremely shallow.  I get most of my questions answered from him and other friends I have.  

Childish antics, circular argumentation and stupid accusations being tossed around only make the ones posting them look foolish, not the ones they hurl the insults at, them.  I don’t suggest you step back and look at the big picture.  I suggest you put the car in reverse and back up several miles before you look at the big picture.  Seeing what is directly in front of you and nothing more is a dangerous way to live.

Oh, and my brother was a Scout.  I got to attend with him, but I never joined.  We were poor and couldn’t afford it, so they let me hang with my big bro.  I remember the race cars well.  And green carpet.


The gays you know are definitely nothing like the gays I know.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #320 on: February 03, 2013, 03:29:11 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.
When did he say this? Can you quote the post?

I could if I was willing to take the time to go through all of Yesh's posts so I can find the post I'm thinking of - but I'm sure many members of the board will back up the fact that Yesh said that.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #321 on: February 03, 2013, 04:05:51 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.
When did he say this? Can you quote the post?

I could if I was willing to take the time to go through all of Yesh's posts so I can find the post I'm thinking of -
If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.

but I'm sure many members of the board will back up the fact that Yesh said that.
Then let them speak for themselves. If they can't prove it, he didn't say it.
Logged
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,960



« Reply #322 on: February 03, 2013, 04:11:27 AM »

I don't recall atheists being much kinder about gays.  I grew up in an atheistic home, none of my friends went to church, and gays were spoken of in far worse terms than I've ever heard in Orthodox circles.

In fact, homosexuality was frowned upon in the Soviet Union as I recall.  Something about 'social deviancy.' 

Romania under communism was no funland for gays... http://goqnotes.com/editorial/editorsnote_060905.html



Even if you Ch. Martel wouldn't make your children homeless to prove a point that happens all the time to gay kids with religious parents . I live in a neighborhood whre I see them often also read in the local press and even  talked to some a few times.
happens to gay kids with non-religious parents.

I know some kids thrown out by their parents for getting religion.  Do they count?

Don't confuse the issue with facts, Father.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,960



« Reply #323 on: February 03, 2013, 04:27:47 AM »

I don't recall atheists being much kinder about gays.  I grew up in an atheistic home, none of my friends went to church, and gays were spoken of in far worse terms than I've ever heard in Orthodox circles.

In fact, homosexuality was frowned upon in the Soviet Union as I recall.  Something about 'social deviancy.' 

Romania under communism was no funland for gays... http://goqnotes.com/editorial/editorsnote_060905.html



Even if you Ch. Martel wouldn't make your children homeless to prove a point that happens all the time to gay kids with religious parents . I live in a neighborhood whre I see them often also read in the local press and even  talked to some a few times.
happens to gay kids with non-religious parents.

I know some kids thrown out by their parents for getting religion.  Do they count?
nice spin reverend father, but we know that. the point is that in urban or suburban america the more a certain family is invested into a certain type of religion (not mainline episcopalian)  the greater the possibility would be they have a more disapproving view of homosexuality, whereas I think the level of disapproval would be significantly lower in more secularized households. of course there are exceptions but I think this are the dynamics today.
No spin.  Just facts.  Your unfamiliarity with the concept is what is throwing you.  Or perhaps your rosy, magical thinking on the progressives.  As father pointed out, your communists were certainly no friend to the homosexuals.

I am surprised that you admit that there are Evangelicals (or were you talking about the Orthodox, or followers of the Vatican?) living in the cities and suburbs of America.  I would have thought that you would dismiss them all as Southern hicks and country bumpkins.

One might think that the dynamics today would make lesbians approve of homosexuality, and make homosexuals approve of lesbianism.  Talk to one about the other, however, and in fact few disapprove of homosexuality more than lesbians, and few disapprove of lesbianism than homosexuals.

btw, you might be shocked by how intolerant a good liberal family can be when caught with the issue at home.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #324 on: February 03, 2013, 04:56:18 AM »

The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

Incorrect.  He was Orthodox, a Christian, a monk, a child of God. 

But still a homosexual.

Those who identify by sexuality have serious issues.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #325 on: February 03, 2013, 04:58:39 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.

If this is indeed the case, I stand humbly corrected.  I just figured who Yesh (shortened) is.
Logged
Ioannis Climacus
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 863


"There is no religion higher than TRUTH"


« Reply #326 on: February 03, 2013, 04:59:55 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.

Kerdy, Yesh actually did say he would kick a gay son out of his home.
When did he say this? Can you quote the post?

I could if I was willing to take the time to go through all of Yesh's posts so I can find the post I'm thinking of -
If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.

but I'm sure many members of the board will back up the fact that Yesh said that.
Then let them speak for themselves. If they can't prove it, he didn't say it.
Here :

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48289.msg842692.html#msg842692

"7) It sainted men who had horrendous backgrounds as military leaders, and sons that slept with their own wife (mother).  This would be Constantine, the supposed former sun worshipper.  Oh, this saint executed his own son and wife btw.  But he's still a saint and all.  I mean, woe is me who would kick a son out for being gay...  Perhaps the venerated saint who executed his son holds the Orthodox fancy more.  This is also the caller of Nicea.  Who Eusebius next to kissed his rump... "Oh glorious Constantine, shining in jewels....".  Of course Constantine skipped the part where Christians don't wear costly clothing.. (Byzantine king duds anybody?  aka priests & bishops vestments)"

Emphasis mine.

EDIT : I probably have way too much free time if I am fact checking for you people. Smiley
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 05:15:56 AM by Ioannis Climacus » Logged

Note : Many of my posts (especially the ones antedating late 2012) do not reflect charity, tact, or even views I presently hold. Please forgive me for any antagonism I have caused.
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #327 on: February 03, 2013, 05:00:01 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.
What? I'd make one of my own children "Homeless" to prove a point? Absolutely not!

What the hell is wrong with some of these posters on here to make some of the statements like this?

Oh right, I know......that "mental disorder" thing.

Good luck with that.

Just a bit for clarification: James was not talking about you, rather James, in his use of the pronoun "his", was referring to yeah, whom has, in fact, said this. He was adding onto his "list" of people he wishes would have gay(the word I will be using, feel free to change it to homosexual if it makes you feel better) children, which consists of kerry, and yes, you, and now yesh onto that list.

Actually I was saying I would feel very badly for the child of any of them, if they were gay.

But, why?  For the same reason I wouldn't purchase condomns for a heterosexual son or daughter?  Not purchase marijuana for them to smoke?  Not purchase alcohol for them to drink?
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #328 on: February 03, 2013, 05:03:02 AM »

For the record, as I have already stated my brother is homosexual, other than our father, I was the last one in the family he told.  He didn’t even tell me until I finally just asked him outright.  I asked him why he took so long (other family members knew years prior) and he said it was because I am a political conservative (formerly extremely active) and military disciplined.  I looked at him and asked, “Aren’t you conservative and military disciplined, too?”  I was also a youth minister and he felt, likely as a result of all of his friends, I would disown him.  I looked him in his eyes and said, “You know my views and they will not change, but you are family.  I am not going to disown you because of this.  Of course, there will be basic rules for when you are around my kids, but you are a big boy and must live with the choices you make.”

We never have had a problem because of him being homosexual.  In fact, he thinks most of the rhetoric being spewed from the propaganda machines is stupid.  You see, he thinks for himself.  He is not supportive of homosexual marriage, civil unions yes.  He sees what is going on and he is disgusted.  He ended a very long relationship because his partner couldn’t keep his zipper up and coincidentally, according to him, very few can.  He gets tired of being asked for a romp in the sack on a first meeting and the list goes on, so I know just how snug the stereotypes actually do fit.  In large, this community is extremely shallow.  I get most of my questions answered from him and other friends I have.  

Childish antics, circular argumentation and stupid accusations being tossed around only make the ones posting them look foolish, not the ones they hurl the insults at, them.  I don’t suggest you step back and look at the big picture.  I suggest you put the car in reverse and back up several miles before you look at the big picture.  Seeing what is directly in front of you and nothing more is a dangerous way to live.

Oh, and my brother was a Scout.  I got to attend with him, but I never joined.  We were poor and couldn’t afford it, so they let me hang with my big bro.  I remember the race cars well.  And green carpet.


The gays you know are definitely nothing like the gays I know.

All I can say is I pick my friends very carefully.  My friendships are based on character, personality, their ability to problem solve and independently think.  It doesn’t matter who they are if they are uncivil. 
Logged
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,158


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #329 on: February 03, 2013, 09:36:31 AM »



Ideally,  Kerdy's point would be expressed without any posts at all.

Well, just bless your little heart.

Those from the south understand.
There are condescending people in the Midwest too.
Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
PeterTheAleut
The Right Blowhard Peter the Furtive of Yetts O'Muckhart
Section Moderator
Protospatharios
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 32,652


Lord, have mercy on the Christians in Mosul!


« Reply #330 on: February 03, 2013, 11:38:51 AM »

I don't recall atheists being much kinder about gays.  I grew up in an atheistic home, none of my friends went to church, and gays were spoken of in far worse terms than I've ever heard in Orthodox circles.

In fact, homosexuality was frowned upon in the Soviet Union as I recall.  Something about 'social deviancy.' 

Romania under communism was no funland for gays... http://goqnotes.com/editorial/editorsnote_060905.html



Even if you Ch. Martel wouldn't make your children homeless to prove a point that happens all the time to gay kids with religious parents . I live in a neighborhood whre I see them often also read in the local press and even  talked to some a few times.
happens to gay kids with non-religious parents.

I know some kids thrown out by their parents for getting religion.  Do they count?
nice spin reverend father, but we know that. the point is that in urban or suburban america the more a certain family is invested into a certain type of religion (not mainline episcopalian)  the greater the possibility would be they have a more disapproving view of homosexuality, whereas I think the level of disapproval would be significantly lower in more secularized households. of course there are exceptions but I think this are the dynamics today.
You think, but you don't know. That's the problem.

Go ahead and live in the world of might be if you want. The rest of us will continue to live in the world of what is.
Logged
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,216


« Reply #331 on: February 03, 2013, 02:45:00 PM »

Even if you Ch. Martel wouldn't make your children homeless to prove a point that happens all the time to gay kids with religious parents . I live in a neighborhood whre I see them often also read in the local press and even  talked to some a few times.
I have never seen one.

But I have seen a few devout Christian parents heartbroken by a child's choice to be rebellious against everything they tried lovingly to teach them.And even then, they still choose to leave on their own because the parents will not condone their "lifestyle" under their roof.

I have also seen more than my share of non-religious fathers verbally, psychologically and physically abuse that "queer" for a son.

I don't understand why it's always the people with Faith that get the bad rap when it comes to this homosexual issue.


Well you just kinda proved my point. How would condoning the"lifestyle" under your loving Christian roof look like hypothetically of course?
Hypothetically? Well for instance, if you brought your "boyfriend" home and tried to act as a "couple" in front of me while you expect me to say nothing or just nod and smile in lovingly approval.

That will never happen in my house, I don't care who you are.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,216


« Reply #332 on: February 03, 2013, 02:46:28 PM »

The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

Incorrect.  He was Orthodox, a Christian, a monk, a child of God. 

But still a homosexual.

Those who identify by sexuality have serious issues.
You can start with mental illness.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,216


« Reply #333 on: February 03, 2013, 02:47:43 PM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
You whine and moan about "hatred" yet you attack back with the same verocity and indignation.

You hope he has homosexual children? Really?

You illiberals are truly a nasty lot.

I think that talk radio guy is right, liberalism is definitely a "mental disorder".

What is so bad about having gay children?

The idea of a gay child having Kerdy (or Charles Martel for that matter) as a father makes me a bit sad.

Oh well certainly (and I'd go ahead and add Yesh to that too, seeing as how his motto is "Make 'em homeless; make 'em straight")!

There you go attributing words which a person has not said.  You do realize by using “  “, you are supposed to be quoting from someone.  If they, in fact, did not say what you quote, you are being dishonest.  I can’t speak for Charles, but I know I have never mentioned these words in this context.  I am not surprise, though; this appears to be your discipline of argumentation.  Just say hateful things.
What? I'd make one of my own children "Homeless" to prove a point? Absolutely not!

What the hell is wrong with some of these posters on here to make some of the statements like this?

Oh right, I know......that "mental disorder" thing.

Good luck with that.

Just a bit for clarification: James was not talking about you, rather James, in his use of the pronoun "his", was referring to yeah, whom has, in fact, said this. He was adding onto his "list" of people he wishes would have gay(the word I will be using, feel free to change it to homosexual if it makes you feel better) children, which consists of kerry, and yes, you, and now yesh onto that list.

Actually I was saying I would feel very badly for the child of any of them, if they were gay.
I feel bad for you.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,738


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #334 on: February 03, 2013, 04:57:37 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
William
Muted
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Posts: 4,354


« Reply #335 on: February 03, 2013, 04:58:07 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...

Yeah you do.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,145



« Reply #336 on: February 03, 2013, 05:01:49 PM »

We could also add that Muslims aren't very tolerant of homosexuals. However, I'm at a loss to see what point you and Isa are making.  Huh

Presumably, we can all agree that "Atheists and Muslims do it" doesn't make it okay.

I don't recall atheists being much kinder about gays.  I grew up in an atheistic home, none of my friends went to church, and gays were spoken of in far worse terms than I've ever heard in Orthodox circles.

In fact, homosexuality was frowned upon in the Soviet Union as I recall.  Something about 'social deviancy.' 

Romania under communism was no funland for gays... http://goqnotes.com/editorial/editorsnote_060905.html



Even if you Ch. Martel wouldn't make your children homeless to prove a point that happens all the time to gay kids with religious parents . I live in a neighborhood whre I see them often also read in the local press and even  talked to some a few times.
happens to gay kids with non-religious parents.

I know some kids thrown out by their parents for getting religion.  Do they count?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,145



« Reply #337 on: February 03, 2013, 05:02:25 PM »

to wish hardshipof another person, especially a child.
Oh and this.

So now a gay child is a hardship? You have got to be kidding me. You want to kick them out of their home for it too? Give them enough money to catch a bus? Because heaven forbid your hardship make it so difficult for you.

Oh hey son, you are gay? Get out of my house, and I don't care if you aren't having sex.

This is exactly why I suggested it.

Thank you for showing what kind of heart you have, or lack thereof.
Thank you for showing how little time you actually spend reading others' posts. Even I can see that you show absolutely no comprehension of what Kerdy just said.
No I comprehended it very clearly.

For context:
Quote
What was said was contemptible in nature and no different than saying you wish someone would have a child becomes addicted to drugs, becomes a prostitute, an alcoholic or any other sin which takes control of their life.

So now having a gay son is a hardship on the parent. Which is as he says here:

Quote
to wish hardship of another person, especially a child.

Since when did the Church denounce a person of their sexuality? The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

What happened to hating the sin and loving the person?

And how is being homosexual a sin in of itself?

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #338 on: February 03, 2013, 05:12:46 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...

Yeah you do.

Absolutely.

I find it weird that secularist arguments that rely on stereotypes of how religious people are and what they do are being used by religious people against religious people on a religious message board.

I would make a comment about "strange bedfellows" here, but somehow I don't think this is the thread for it.  angel
Logged

JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,738


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #339 on: February 03, 2013, 05:14:50 PM »

I've never seen an atheist parent reject their kid based on something like beliefs on sexuality. On the other hand, what I have observed among them is that they don't teach their kids crap, because in their eyes, expressing authority automatically equals abuse. That's why their kids are always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy. Whereas, religious kids are always well behaved, but then emotionally unstable during adulthood needing therapy.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #340 on: February 03, 2013, 05:32:13 PM »

That's why their kids are always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy. Whereas, religious kids are always well behaved, but then emotionally unstable during adulthood needing therapy.

Without broaching what "always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy" could possibly mean, isn't it inadvisable to make such sweeping generalizations about people based on the religious outlook of their parents? The vast majority of agnostically or atheistically-minded people I know were raised in at least passively religious environments (several actively religious, as well), and came to reject or at least be ambivalent about religion later in life, without the aid or complication of therapy.

And my best friend in junior high/high school experimented for some of that time with homosexuality and bisexuality. He was raised in an atheistic household, but always hiding his curiosity from his family because his parents were very openly anti-homosexual, and his father's views in particular had a big impact on his younger brother in their former years, making for a very toxic environment. My friend ended up on the street off an on from about age 16 to 20 due to mental illness issues aggravated (he said some of his therapists said "brought on") by the stress of trying to be okay with some of what he was doing/feeling at the time while his family's message that it was definitely not okay (I can't use the words I heard in good conscience, but I remember being with his family at several times as a teenager when his father and/or younger brother would go off on how gross/immoral/worthy of terrible things homosexuals are, completely oblivious to the effect this was having on him). He's been happily, heterosexually married for years now, so it's most likely that this was a teenage phase/confusion, but I know that he's never forgotten this period of his life and the effect it had on him. As his friend, I haven't either. (This is one of the many, many reasons I do not accept the presumption of some people on the internet that if you are against the forced acceptance of homosexuality/the criminalization of traditional Christian teachings on homosexuality, that means you hate homosexuals or want them to die or whatever...I was unaware that I secretly wanted my best friend to die during all the years that I spent taking collect calls from him while he was on the street or in various mental hospitals, and the many years since then, during which I have never, ever stopped being his friend and supporting him...)
Logged

Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #341 on: February 03, 2013, 06:01:12 PM »

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
Maybe so, but if the shoe fits.

Not worth arguing anymore
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #342 on: February 03, 2013, 06:03:08 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...
I would go a step further and say religious parents have a much more inclination to reject their gay children based on religion rather than if they are irreligious.

I know two close friends of mine who were scorned because they are gay, and it had everything to do with religion
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 06:12:07 PM by Achronos » Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #343 on: February 03, 2013, 08:54:13 PM »



Ideally,  Kerdy's point would be expressed without any posts at all.

Well, just bless your little heart.

Those from the south understand.
There are condescending people in the Midwest too.
Are you from the Midwest?
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #344 on: February 03, 2013, 08:56:24 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...
Yes, yes you absolutely do!
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #345 on: February 03, 2013, 08:57:35 PM »

to wish hardshipof another person, especially a child.
Oh and this.

So now a gay child is a hardship? You have got to be kidding me. You want to kick them out of their home for it too? Give them enough money to catch a bus? Because heaven forbid your hardship make it so difficult for you.

Oh hey son, you are gay? Get out of my house, and I don't care if you aren't having sex.

This is exactly why I suggested it.

Thank you for showing what kind of heart you have, or lack thereof.
Thank you for showing how little time you actually spend reading others' posts. Even I can see that you show absolutely no comprehension of what Kerdy just said.
No I comprehended it very clearly.

For context:
Quote
What was said was contemptible in nature and no different than saying you wish someone would have a child becomes addicted to drugs, becomes a prostitute, an alcoholic or any other sin which takes control of their life.

So now having a gay son is a hardship on the parent. Which is as he says here:

Quote
to wish hardship of another person, especially a child.

Since when did the Church denounce a person of their sexuality? The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

What happened to hating the sin and loving the person?

And how is being homosexual a sin in of itself?

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
And yet, you didn't explain how I was wrong.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #346 on: February 03, 2013, 08:58:59 PM »

I've never seen ...
...a world of stuff, yet.  But you will.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:22:24 PM by Kerdy » Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #347 on: February 03, 2013, 09:12:48 PM »

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
Maybe so, but if the shoe fits.

Not worth arguing anymore
What you still have not learned is everything you are saying is your personal opinion and in direct conflict with Christianity and Orthodoxy.  You don't stop to think of the long term results of what you do, you only consider the short term.  You , understandably, care for a persons feelings and the pain the experience, but in the process you seem to forget about their eternity.  Stop for a moment and actually consider what is being said rather than react emotionally.  You KNOW none of us want anyone to die, suffer or any of that, but your opinion won't allow you to accept this fact.  It isn't just homosexuality you do this with, it's several things.  For instance, I have spent my entire adult life working to help others, many times at my or my families expense, but you toss accusations around contrary to my actual life as if they had meaning, which they do not.  But if you knew how many sexual assault investigations (male on male) I had done, you may think differently.  Just saying.  You attempt to make it about us hating the person instead if teaching and repeating what God has already said, and you are wrong.  People hurt, we try to help, but we don't lie about stuff in the process.  We tell them the truth, guide them toward Jesus, and pray for and with them for deliverance of their afflictions.  We all have our sins, problems and shortcomings.  I ask you stop rationalizing sinful acts away and stop promoting the acceptance of sinful fleshly desires, because long term, it hurts them much more than the truth today.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #348 on: February 03, 2013, 09:35:42 PM »

I would go a step further and say religious parents have a much more inclination to reject their gay children based on religion rather than if they are irreligious.
 
I suspect you believe rejection of homosexuality and rejection of the child is the same thing.  It is not.  But I will not argue, because then I would be wrong, that some people do reject the child and that is a tragedy.  The only time a person should be rejected due to their sexual desires is when they refuse to fight against the flesh, as we all must do, and demand acceptance.  At this point, they have turned away from God and toward them and the only thing at this point we can do is pray for them.  For instance, do you think an Orthodox priest would ignore two grown men or women holding hands in church and kissing each other?  No, he would tell them to stop or not come back, as he should.  He also would not allow communion until they went to confession and asked God’s forgiveness of their sins, as he should.   Is he being a hater or being a servant of God?

But yes, those few parents who immediately kick their kids out of the house for saying they are attracted to the same sex are wrong.  A parent’s job is to help their child as best as they can, regardless of the sin they practice.  If the child is older and rebels violently against the parent, that is different and I would remove them from the home as well.  Not allowing their boy/girlfriend over, on the phone, on the internet, etc., is not hate, its parenting.  I do not know if you have children and if you do how old they are, but most parents understand this concept very well.

To answer your question, what would I do if one of my children said they were homosexual, I would do everything humanly possible to help them overcome their sinful desires while letting them know I love them unconditionally.  To follow up with what I was talking about with my brother…he wanted to visit when he was still with the aforementioned partner.  I told him they were both welcome, as long as they slept separately and didn’t display any action which would confuse my children.  They both, of course, agreed and we had no issues.  It isn’t about hate, and you well know this.  It’s about right and wrong.  Nothing more.

I know two close friends of mine who were scorned because they are gay, and it had everything to do with religion
Scorned?  This isn’t very specific.  Being belittled is one thing, but being told they are wrong in their wants of the flesh is entirely another thing.  Remove the word “homosexual” and replace it with any other unacceptable behavior and see if your argument holds.  Adultery, fornication, drug use, alcoholism, sexual desires for children or animals, worship of money or any other false idol to include ones one person, pornography, etc.  The same argument does not hold, so why the exception to what people want to believe is ok, but know it’s not?  
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 09:38:06 PM by Kerdy » Logged
That person
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 1,158


Long live Commie Superman


« Reply #349 on: February 03, 2013, 11:49:28 PM »



Ideally,  Kerdy's point would be expressed without any posts at all.

Well, just bless your little heart.

Those from the south understand.
There are condescending people in the Midwest too.
Are you from the Midwest?
Aggressively so. I always ask waiters what kind of pop (not soda or coke or any such nonesense) just to drive that point home. Ideally,  I'm wearing some Bengals merchandise while I do so.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2013, 11:51:44 PM by That person » Logged

"Some have such command of their bowels, that they can break wind continuously at pleasure, so as to produce the effect of singing."- St. Augustine of Hippo

Movie reviews you can trust.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,145



« Reply #350 on: February 03, 2013, 11:54:53 PM »

to wish hardshipof another person, especially a child.
Oh and this.

So now a gay child is a hardship? You have got to be kidding me. You want to kick them out of their home for it too? Give them enough money to catch a bus? Because heaven forbid your hardship make it so difficult for you.

Oh hey son, you are gay? Get out of my house, and I don't care if you aren't having sex.

This is exactly why I suggested it.

Thank you for showing what kind of heart you have, or lack thereof.
Thank you for showing how little time you actually spend reading others' posts. Even I can see that you show absolutely no comprehension of what Kerdy just said.
No I comprehended it very clearly.

For context:
Quote
What was said was contemptible in nature and no different than saying you wish someone would have a child becomes addicted to drugs, becomes a prostitute, an alcoholic or any other sin which takes control of their life.

So now having a gay son is a hardship on the parent. Which is as he says here:

Quote
to wish hardship of another person, especially a child.

Since when did the Church denounce a person of their sexuality? The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

What happened to hating the sin and loving the person?

And how is being homosexual a sin in of itself?

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
And yet, you didn't explain how I was wrong.

True. Actually, I haven't really decided if I should get into it or just let it speak for itself.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,145



« Reply #351 on: February 03, 2013, 11:55:54 PM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...
I would go a step further and say religious parents have a much more inclination to reject their gay children based on religion rather than if they are irreligious.

I know two close friends of mine who were scorned because they are gay, and it had everything to do with religion

Well, I tend to think that Isa and Father were right to say that there are some atheists (communists in particular) who are/were quite intolerant of homosexuals. I just can't figure out what point they were trying to make. Seriously: if atheists do X, does that somehow prove that X is the right thing to do? ?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #352 on: February 04, 2013, 12:10:05 AM »

to wish hardshipof another person, especially a child.
Oh and this.

So now a gay child is a hardship? You have got to be kidding me. You want to kick them out of their home for it too? Give them enough money to catch a bus? Because heaven forbid your hardship make it so difficult for you.

Oh hey son, you are gay? Get out of my house, and I don't care if you aren't having sex.

This is exactly why I suggested it.

Thank you for showing what kind of heart you have, or lack thereof.
Thank you for showing how little time you actually spend reading others' posts. Even I can see that you show absolutely no comprehension of what Kerdy just said.
No I comprehended it very clearly.

For context:
Quote
What was said was contemptible in nature and no different than saying you wish someone would have a child becomes addicted to drugs, becomes a prostitute, an alcoholic or any other sin which takes control of their life.

So now having a gay son is a hardship on the parent. Which is as he says here:

Quote
to wish hardship of another person, especially a child.

Since when did the Church denounce a person of their sexuality? The Church allowed Fr. Seraphim Rose to be a monk, and he struggled until his last breathe to fight homosexual sins. But that is who he was, a homosexual.

What happened to hating the sin and loving the person?

And how is being homosexual a sin in of itself?

I think you read a little bit more into Kerdy's post than was actually there -- which is unfortunate, because it was a bad enough post without reading any more into it (no offense Kerdy).
And yet, you didn't explain how I was wrong.

True. Actually, I haven't really decided if I should get into it or just let it speak for itself.
By all means, get into it.  Others seem to have no problem reading things into what I say which are untrue. 
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,145



« Reply #353 on: February 04, 2013, 12:11:29 AM »

If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.
?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #354 on: February 04, 2013, 12:13:35 AM »

You never see atheist parents rejecting their children because of their sexuality and/or religious beliefs, whereas religious parents do...
I would go a step further and say religious parents have a much more inclination to reject their gay children based on religion rather than if they are irreligious.

I know two close friends of mine who were scorned because they are gay, and it had everything to do with religion

Well, I tend to think that Isa and Father were right to say that there are some atheists (communists in particular) who are/were quite intolerant of homosexuals. I just can't figure out what point they were trying to make. Seriously: if atheists do X, does that somehow prove that X is the right thing to do? ?
One of their points is simple.  Religion is not the main factor in being hateful to homosexuals and to say it is would be dishonest.
Logged
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #355 on: February 04, 2013, 12:14:14 AM »

That's why their kids are always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy. Whereas, religious kids are always well behaved, but then emotionally unstable during adulthood needing therapy.

Without broaching what "always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy" could possibly mean, isn't it inadvisable to make such sweeping generalizations about people based on the religious outlook of their parents? The vast majority of agnostically or atheistically-minded people I know were raised in at least passively religious environments (several actively religious, as well), and came to reject or at least be ambivalent about religion later in life, without the aid or complication of therapy.

And my best friend in junior high/high school experimented for some of that time with homosexuality and bisexuality. He was raised in an atheistic household, but always hiding his curiosity from his family because his parents were very openly anti-homosexual, and his father's views in particular had a big impact on his younger brother in their former years, making for a very toxic environment. My friend ended up on the street off an on from about age 16 to 20 due to mental illness issues aggravated (he said some of his therapists said "brought on") by the stress of trying to be okay with some of what he was doing/feeling at the time while his family's message that it was definitely not okay (I can't use the words I heard in good conscience, but I remember being with his family at several times as a teenager when his father and/or younger brother would go off on how gross/immoral/worthy of terrible things homosexuals are, completely oblivious to the effect this was having on him). He's been happily, heterosexually married for years now, so it's most likely that this was a teenage phase/confusion, but I know that he's never forgotten this period of his life and the effect it had on him. As his friend, I haven't either. (This is one of the many, many reasons I do not accept the presumption of some people on the internet that if you are against the forced acceptance of homosexuality/the criminalization of traditional Christian teachings on homosexuality, that means you hate homosexuals or want them to die or whatever...I was unaware that I secretly wanted my best friend to die during all the years that I spent taking collect calls from him while he was on the street or in various mental hospitals, and the many years since then, during which I have never, ever stopped being his friend and supporting him...)

Actually, it is quite possible he is bisexual.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
JamesRottnek
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Anglican
Jurisdiction: Episcopal Diocese of Arizona
Posts: 5,121


I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine


« Reply #356 on: February 04, 2013, 12:16:16 AM »

If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.
?

Yeah, of all people, I'd not expect PTA to fall for that fallacy.

I mean, I cannot prove that on Thursday a friend of mine - while we were having lunch - told me he hates Dr. Pepper, but he mostly certainly said it.
Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice.  Can you guess what it is?

The greatest tragedy in the world is when a cigarette ends.

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #357 on: February 04, 2013, 12:16:39 AM »

That's why their kids are always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy. Whereas, religious kids are always well behaved, but then emotionally unstable during adulthood needing therapy.

Without broaching what "always misbehaved, but emotionally healthy" could possibly mean, isn't it inadvisable to make such sweeping generalizations about people based on the religious outlook of their parents? The vast majority of agnostically or atheistically-minded people I know were raised in at least passively religious environments (several actively religious, as well), and came to reject or at least be ambivalent about religion later in life, without the aid or complication of therapy.

And my best friend in junior high/high school experimented for some of that time with homosexuality and bisexuality. He was raised in an atheistic household, but always hiding his curiosity from his family because his parents were very openly anti-homosexual, and his father's views in particular had a big impact on his younger brother in their former years, making for a very toxic environment. My friend ended up on the street off an on from about age 16 to 20 due to mental illness issues aggravated (he said some of his therapists said "brought on") by the stress of trying to be okay with some of what he was doing/feeling at the time while his family's message that it was definitely not okay (I can't use the words I heard in good conscience, but I remember being with his family at several times as a teenager when his father and/or younger brother would go off on how gross/immoral/worthy of terrible things homosexuals are, completely oblivious to the effect this was having on him). He's been happily, heterosexually married for years now, so it's most likely that this was a teenage phase/confusion, but I know that he's never forgotten this period of his life and the effect it had on him. As his friend, I haven't either. (This is one of the many, many reasons I do not accept the presumption of some people on the internet that if you are against the forced acceptance of homosexuality/the criminalization of traditional Christian teachings on homosexuality, that means you hate homosexuals or want them to die or whatever...I was unaware that I secretly wanted my best friend to die during all the years that I spent taking collect calls from him while he was on the street or in various mental hospitals, and the many years since then, during which I have never, ever stopped being his friend and supporting him...)

Actually, it is quite possible he is bisexual.
More likely he isn't.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #358 on: February 04, 2013, 12:18:56 AM »

If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.
?

Yeah, of all people, I'd not expect PTA to fall for that fallacy.

I mean, I cannot prove that on Thursday a friend of mine - while we were having lunch - told me he hates Dr. Pepper, but he mostly certainly said it.
It's an empty accusation.  When saying something slanderous about a person, it's your duty to provide the evidence.  Without it, it's just a rumor.
Logged
LBK
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,143


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #359 on: February 04, 2013, 12:40:43 AM »

If you can't prove it, he didn't say it.

but I'm sure many members of the board will back up the fact that Yesh said that.
Then let them speak for themselves. If they can't prove it, he didn't say it.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5550.msg841549.html#msg841549

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5550.msg841615.html#msg841615

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5550.msg842136.html#msg842136

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5550.msg842143.html#msg842143

Logged
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.238 seconds with 72 queries.