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Author Topic: Boy Scouts reconsidering stance on gay members  (Read 9262 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #180 on: February 02, 2013, 01:34:10 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?
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« Reply #181 on: February 02, 2013, 01:36:59 AM »

My favorite part of being in the scouts was that race car derby thing. Even though my cars were always crappy.
I actually won my troop's space derby one year. Grin Kinda like pine cars, except these were little pine rocket ships propelled down a zip line by rubber-band-powered propeller blades.
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« Reply #182 on: February 02, 2013, 01:38:12 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?

I'm immune to flattery. Age does that to you.  Cool
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« Reply #183 on: February 02, 2013, 01:45:05 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?
Lord have mercy! Augustin you go at it with a scalpel don't you? or is it a laser? LOL!
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« Reply #184 on: February 02, 2013, 01:46:13 AM »

Jeremy your posts are naive.

You're free to stop reading or responding to them if they bother you so much. Really, I wouldn't mind.

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If you think sexuality is something one states in creeds and mottos, then well, there is no point going on here.

I was responding to your idea that "the Scouts is all about sexuality". There's no sexuality in the Scouts Creed, so I think you're reading something into the organization's goals that isn't meant to be there. But I agree that there is no point in conversing with you.  

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The BOY Scouts.

BOY.
BOY.



Good job! It is the Boy Scouts! You're good at this.

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That is just the beginning of the sexualization of that group. Why segregate the girls and boys in the first?


I'm assuming they probably teach boys and girls different skills, as boys and girls are different from one another in some ways.

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Note, you didn't respond to my "cute" point.

You didn't say anything worth responding to.

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If Bobby talks about his crush on a girl. It is cute. What if Bobby has a crush on a boy?

What if? I don't care. That doesn't make Bobby having a crush on a girl instead of a boy "nonsense".

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Coming out is not an act homosexuals do because they are gay. Do heterosexuals come out? No. They have a pretty standard and socialized narrative about how to engage in the larger body politic of family and society about their sexual lives.

Yep. That's what happens when you're part of the 90%+ of the society that is not gay. That's the majority/minority dynamic at work. It's not specific to gay people. My brother's a vegetarian and often has to explain to people why he doesn't eat meat. I'm an Orthodox Christian and I have to explain to people why I'm that and not Protestant or Catholic (and further explain in certain religiously-literate environments why I'm Oriental Orthodox, not Eastern Orthodox). These are all a part of being a minority, but they don't make being a heterosexual, meat-eating carnivore anything other than normative in American society. That's why we have to explain things about ourselves when they're not the usual. Some have more to explain than others, and some things are more socially-accepted than other things.

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Sexual "identity" is always being addressed by straight folks. Always. Nearly every moment.

Nope. When I go out to eat, I'm not expressing my sexuality. When I pray, I'm not expressing my sexuality. Not everything in life has to do with who I (or whoever) might be sexually attracted to. Gay people do that stuff, too, without having it be about how they're gay. I would wager, living in a relatively liberal city as I do, that I probably run into many more gay people in the average day than I could identify as being gay. Most people, gay or straight, are just people going about their daily lives. Several of the people I have known who have "come out" as gay were not obvious (though there were several others who were), and several more who everyone in my social circle had assumed were gay turned out not to be. Go figure.

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This is thinking 101. Come on. Aren't past these obviouslys yet?

Who is past the what in where now?  Huh

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Being gay is "normative". (Thanks for you using part of my name.)

No it isn't. Something is normative if it is establishing or deriving from the/a standard. Since gay people make up a very small percentage of any given society, by definition being gay is not normative. This isn't about gay people being "freaks" or anything like that, just a statistical observation that most people are not gay, and if we are to take the majority of a given society as establishing what is normative in that society (in the sense of "most people in location X have/don't have characteristic Y"), then being gay can't possibly be normative (just like most people in the world, statistically, aren't African-American, aren't left-handed, aren't Orthodox Christian, etc).

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People are gay. It is normal. It's been going on for a long time.

The fact that people are gay doesn't make being gay normative. Colorblind amputee Eskimos exist, too (probably), but there is no way that they can be described as normative in a statistical sense.

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Whether you think it is a sinful or whatever is something else.

Irrelevant.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 01:48:36 AM by dzheremi » Logged

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« Reply #185 on: February 02, 2013, 01:51:08 AM »

I don't think orthonorm and augustin are as similar as the latter would like to believe.
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« Reply #186 on: February 02, 2013, 01:54:02 AM »

(a) demand that no one criticize their immoral and sinful life style,
Which is completely based on presuppositions, which not all of us hold equal.
You call yourself Orthodox, yet you don't follow the moral teachings of the Church, teachings that state very clearly that homosexual relations are immoral and sinful? That isn't merely Carl's opinion he's representing here.

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(b) demand that society throw away the meaning of marriage between a man and a woman in the name of equality,
Nobody is going to throw away the "meaning" (if such even exists anymore) of marriage between a man and a women. That is completely reactionary.
No, by your own admission, which you just stated in this quote, the meaning of marriage has already been thrown away in the USA.

You have your "meaning" in the Church. Others can have theirs in a civil union.

Conservatives like yourself all want freedom to do as they want, but when it is contrary to their ideology, well its **** you, you aren't getting it.
Let's leave politics out of this discussion, especially since we're still on the Public Forum.

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(c) demand that private individuals and organizations accept their demand that homosexual lifestyle is normal.

What exactly is a lifestyle and why do you define it as such for the homosexual? That is their being.

And it has everything to do with accepting them for what they are, not treating them as if they are subhuman.
Since when have the Boy Scouts been about acceptance of immorality? The Boy Scouts have a moral code, and if you violate that code, you get expelled from the Boy Scouts. Is that not their right to do as a private organization?

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Those who believe that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong have agreed to the decriminalization of homosexual conduct. Now, they are faced with a demand that they approve of homosexual conduct. That's cheeky, don't you think?

Because criminalizing homosexual "conduct" is the proper way to cure them of their homosexuality.

You know we could just allow it and mind our own business, love them as our neighbors and share the Gospel of Christ.
You do realize that Carl has not advocated the criminalization of homosexual relations; in fact, he has stated the exact opposite, that homosexual relations should remain legal even if we do believe them immoral.

Sure you want to keep guns legal, which as far as I know, create more crimes than two dudes loving each other.
Again, please leave politics out of this discussion.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 01:57:12 AM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #187 on: February 02, 2013, 01:57:22 AM »

Well after tonight.

Umm.
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« Reply #188 on: February 02, 2013, 02:38:18 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?
If I'm being persecuted as a result of my desire to seek truth rather than convenience, so be it.  Jesus said it would happen and He said who would be doing the persecution.  I just ask you no longer wear a mask to hide behind.
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« Reply #189 on: February 02, 2013, 02:39:23 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?
Lord have mercy! Augustin you go at it with a scalpel don't you? or is it a laser? LOL!
Or a spoon.
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« Reply #190 on: February 02, 2013, 03:11:14 AM »

Ain't it so sweet to feel persecute for righteousness sake?
Lord have mercy! Augustin you go at it with a scalpel don't you? or is it a laser? LOL!
Or a spoon.

 if you say so  Lips Sealed Smiley
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« Reply #191 on: February 02, 2013, 04:43:01 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
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« Reply #192 on: February 02, 2013, 05:05:06 AM »

Yeah..erm...or this is the internet, and those who may have in the past been literal iconoclasts are now taking "radical" (worldly) stances in favor of destroying the true faith by other means, insinuating that there should be some wiggle room regarding issues that are settled. Just because the post-modern world has remade heretics into freedom fighters doesn't mean that every church or every person is modernizing in this way. Just look at all the people here who aren't agreeing with Orthonorm, Augstin, Achronos, etc.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 05:05:42 AM by dzheremi » Logged

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« Reply #193 on: February 02, 2013, 05:29:26 AM »

Yeah..erm...or this is the internet, and those who may have in the past been literal iconoclasts are now taking "radical" (worldly) stances in favor of destroying the true faith by other means, insinuating that there should be some wiggle room regarding issues that are settled. Just because the post-modern world has remade heretics into freedom fighters doesn't mean that every church or every person is modernizing in this way. Just look at all the people here who aren't agreeing with Orthonorm, Augstin, Achronos, etc.

Yes, take a look at them. I am happy.

And you should work on your reading comprehension.

Quote exactly what I have said "flies in the face of Church Tradition".

Please go ahead.
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« Reply #194 on: February 02, 2013, 05:57:19 AM »

You call yourself Orthodox, yet you don't follow the moral teachings of the Church, teachings that state very clearly that homosexual relations are immoral and sinful? That isn't merely Carl's opinion he's representing here.
There exists a separation of Church and State.

And BTW I never brought up homosexual relations. Carl said "lifestyle" which tells us nothing at all.

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No, by your own admission, which you just stated in this quote, the meaning of marriage has already been thrown away in the USA.
Which has nothing to do with gays.

Quote
Let's leave politics out of this discussion, especially since we're still on the Public Forum.
Everything is shaped by politics.

Quote
Since when have the Boy Scouts been about acceptance of immorality? The Boy Scouts have a moral code, and if you violate that code, you get expelled from the Boy Scouts. Is that not their right to do as a private organization?
What have homosexual boys done? Until they have done anything immoral, then they should not be expelled from being in the Boy Scouts.

What you are advocating is discrimination.

Anyway it can be argued that the Boy Scouts itself is rather gay.

Quote
You do realize that Carl has not advocated the criminalization of homosexual relations; in fact, he has stated the exact opposite, that homosexual relations should remain legal even if we do believe them immoral.
And yet until those gay boys have sex in a tent, you should not deny them a membership to the Boy Scouts.

Quote
Again, please leave politics out of this discussion.
Yet discussing about keeping homosexual relations legal isn't politics why?

And the comparison absolutely has merit to the discussion. I would say it is analogous.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 06:14:18 AM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #195 on: February 02, 2013, 06:01:21 AM »

I read this thread again and it is heartbreaking!  I wonder at what other point in history Christianity was faced with the same or similar infections it currently experiences.  I wonder because I need something to cling to as I see it dissolve away, all over the world, into a watered down unpottable source of drinking water.  How did this happen?  How did we allow it to become this way?  Where are the people seeking the face of God with a desire to live for Him and die to self?  How did this happen to the Apostolic Church?  I spent years searching to get away from this vile contaminant only to see its festering presence here.  I grow weary of the fight.  My heart weeps for the souls of humanity charging forward into the abyss, while they cheer for their ultimate destruction and there is nothing I can do to slow their sprint, much less stop them.  I remember the days gone by when I was bitter toward foolishness, ready to fight the good fight.  Now I am saddened knowing they carry forth of their own choice, not due to ignorance but due to foolishness.  My heart breaks, not for me, rather for them and all I can do is pray is watch.
What on earth is this? Cut the sanctimony.

Really I hope you have boys that are gay so you can get some perspective. You need it.

The level of discrimination and hatred shown in this thread is vile and repulsive. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

And BTW, Kerdy, "to get away from the wile contaminant", Christ did the opposite. He sat with them.

“Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick. Go and learn what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 06:07:42 AM by Achronos » Logged

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« Reply #196 on: February 02, 2013, 06:07:05 AM »

Achronos, what's been eating you lately?
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« Reply #197 on: February 02, 2013, 06:14:49 AM »


And you should work on your reading comprehension.

Quote exactly what I have said "flies in the face of Church Tradition".

Am I not supposed to be noticing that you have put in quotes "flies in the face of Church Tradition" in response to a post that did not contain that sentence fragment? And I'm the one who needs to work on my reading comprehension, apparently...  Cheesy

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Please go ahead.

I'd rather not continue this conversation.

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« Reply #198 on: February 02, 2013, 06:15:51 AM »

Kerdy, I am sorry you are so distressed, may the Lord grant you peace.

I have not read this thread in detail but the general theme is the same as other similar threads I believe. so at the risk of dragging myself into unnecessary arguments that go nowhere, I will speak towards the general theme, regarding what you said last.

I once greeted a deacon of the Parish church of 'The Intercessor of Mercy/ Se'alite Miheret/' when he came to a friend's house saying ' so how is the Intercessor of Mercy?' referring to the parish.. and he answered in a clever way I will never forget, "She remains honored and glorified!' referring to the Most Holy Theotokos.

The Apostolic Church remains Apostolic. it is us who must learn how to be the Children of our Father in heaven who makes his sun rise upon the good and the bad, and his rain upon the just and the unjust. we must meditate on where the wisdom is in that, when the Father's heart aches for the prodigal son even more than ours.

limited as we are in our understanding and wisdom regarding some situations as it relates to how the Church handles them,there is a temptation to attempt do what oza has done in one manner or anther..6 And when they came to the floor of Nachon, Oza put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it: because the oxen kicked and made it lean aside. 7 And the indignation of the Lord was enkindled against Oza, and he struck him for his rashness: and he died there before the ark of God. 8 And David was grieved because the Lord had struck Oza, and the name of that place was called: The striking of Oza, to this day.2 Samuel 6:6-8

 none the less, we must keep in mind that the Truth is Crucified with Love for the Life of the World. we must see the Messiah kneeling between the keepers of the Law he gave them and the woman who was found breaking it and meditate where  the justice is in there or the wisdom.

the insinuation that if the church does not treat certain individuals a certain way preferred by us, than what has already existed in how she treats the sick that come to her, then it means the church is sinking or changing is very presumptuous. such fear  although based on presumption still can only lead to the irrationality and hate and creation of certain clicks of the self declared uber healthy among the filthy sick. may the Lord deliver us from it.


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« Reply #199 on: February 02, 2013, 08:32:47 AM »

Achronos, what's been eating you lately?

He's off post moderation; must of gotten a bit backed up.
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« Reply #200 on: February 02, 2013, 10:30:15 AM »

I grow weary of the fight.

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« Reply #201 on: February 02, 2013, 10:32:58 AM »

I actually agree with you regarding what you have said in your assessment of the current situation with the Boy Scouts. I have fond memories of having been a Boy Scout back in the 1980's, before all this PC nonsense got pushed on the BSA. I, too, am irritated by all these PC "advocates" who think it their job to push their social agenda upon the Boy Scouts, and I am also troubled by what appears to be the first stages of the BSA's capitulation to their demands. The Boy Scouts of America is a private organization with the authority to set their own standards of membership based on their vision of what they want to be. If they don't want to admit openly gay boys and men into their organization, then they have every right to discriminate in this way. I also agree with the mission of the Boy Scouts as it is encoded into the Boy Scout Law and Boy Scout Oath, which includes statements that a Scout will strive to be morally straight and that a scout is reverent. The Boy Scouts see these mandates as not making any place for openly practicing homosexuals in their organization, and I agree with them. I, for one, would not recognize the Boy Scouts as the scouting organization I once knew if they were to kowtow to the gay lobby and lift their ban on openly gay boys and men. I hope and pray that they will continue their fight.

From the posts on this thread, I would guess that those 2 things are one and the same in many people's eyes: if the Boy Scouts lift their ban on openly gay boys and men, then we can automatically conclude that it's kowtowing to the gay lobby.
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« Reply #202 on: February 02, 2013, 10:49:41 AM »

For every gay or non-awesomely-straight person like myself, I am sorry for the tone of the board lately regarding your person. It is nothing other than revolting.

It's amazing...I saw this in Protestantism, but I never thought I would see it in Orthodoxy.  A complete rejection of 2000 years of Christian teaching, ignoring everything God has taught us because we want it to be a different way.

I think each of you make a legitimate complaint there. Which underscores something I've been thinking about while reading this thread ...

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.
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« Reply #203 on: February 02, 2013, 10:55:53 AM »

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

That's sort of interesting, because I've always thought the opposite: that Orthodoxy had a more refined and subtle approach and that Catholics were more heavy handed in the matter. I'm probably wrong as I don't know a ton about the Catholic position, just thought I'd say... Smiley
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« Reply #204 on: February 02, 2013, 11:00:43 AM »

I think there is an easier way to handle this.  The Boy Scouts can change the wording of their ban:  because boys are vulnerable to predatory sexual activity, no one may be a member if he is sexually attracted to children or males in general.
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« Reply #205 on: February 02, 2013, 11:03:13 AM »

For every gay or non-awesomely-straight person like myself, I am sorry for the tone of the board lately regarding your person. It is nothing other than revolting.

It's amazing...I saw this in Protestantism, but I never thought I would see it in Orthodoxy.  A complete rejection of 2000 years of Christian teaching, ignoring everything God has taught us because we want it to be a different way.

I think each of you make a legitimate complaint there. Which underscores something I've been thinking about while reading this thread ...

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.

Is that a joke?
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« Reply #206 on: February 02, 2013, 11:08:13 AM »

I'm curious: are we condemning males for being heterosexual when we ban then from the women's locker room?


You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.
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« Reply #207 on: February 02, 2013, 11:34:01 AM »

For every gay or non-awesomely-straight person like myself, I am sorry for the tone of the board lately regarding your person. It is nothing other than revolting.

It's amazing...I saw this in Protestantism, but I never thought I would see it in Orthodoxy.  A complete rejection of 2000 years of Christian teaching, ignoring everything God has taught us because we want it to be a different way.

I think each of you make a legitimate complaint there. Which underscores something I've been thinking about while reading this thread ...

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.

Is that a joke?

Hell no.
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« Reply #208 on: February 02, 2013, 11:42:56 AM »

We start 17 threads on homosexuality every week and it still isn't clear that Orthodoxy "condemns homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation"?  Huh  We're doing something wrong.
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« Reply #209 on: February 02, 2013, 11:45:59 AM »

For every gay or non-awesomely-straight person like myself, I am sorry for the tone of the board lately regarding your person. It is nothing other than revolting.

It's amazing...I saw this in Protestantism, but I never thought I would see it in Orthodoxy.  A complete rejection of 2000 years of Christian teaching, ignoring everything God has taught us because we want it to be a different way.

I think each of you make a legitimate complaint there. Which underscores something I've been thinking about while reading this thread ...

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.

Is that a joke?

Hell no.

Well it was funny regardless.
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« Reply #210 on: February 02, 2013, 11:53:27 AM »

This post is so messed up it's almost funny:

I'm curious: are we condemning males for being heterosexual when we ban then from the women's locker room?


You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

Just saying.
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« Reply #211 on: February 02, 2013, 11:57:27 AM »

How?
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« Reply #212 on: February 02, 2013, 12:01:26 PM »

I don't think orthonorm and augustin are as similar as the latter would like to believe.
Have you been smoking something ? What would I have you believe specifically?
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« Reply #213 on: February 02, 2013, 12:30:21 PM »


And you should work on your reading comprehension.

Quote exactly what I have said "flies in the face of Church Tradition".

Am I not supposed to be noticing that you have put in quotes "flies in the face of Church Tradition" in response to a post that did not contain that sentence fragment? And I'm the one who needs to work on my reading comprehension, apparently...  Cheesy

Quote
Please go ahead.

I'd rather not continue this conversation.



"Crickets". If you people can put words into my fingers, I can do the same.

Stop
    Trying
            To
              Be
                 The
                     Arbiter
                              Of
                                What
                                       The
                                           Church
                                                    Thinks
                                                            And
                                                                Piling
                                                                      On
                                                                         With
                                                                              Those
                                                                                     Who
                                                                                          Do
                                                                                            Without
                                                                                                      Merit.

Look at the company you are consistently in and the things that they have said openly as of late. Advocating hitting homosexual kids for vaguely worded human interactions.

And you are comparing being gay to being vegetarian?
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« Reply #214 on: February 02, 2013, 12:55:54 PM »

You call yourself Orthodox, yet you don't follow the moral teachings of the Church, teachings that state very clearly that homosexual relations are immoral and sinful? That isn't merely Carl's opinion he's representing here.
There exists a separation of Church and State.

And BTW I never brought up homosexual relations. Carl said "lifestyle" which tells us nothing at all.

Quote
No, by your own admission, which you just stated in this quote, the meaning of marriage has already been thrown away in the USA.
Which has nothing to do with gays.

Quote
Let's leave politics out of this discussion, especially since we're still on the Public Forum.
Everything is shaped by politics.
And yet we're not permitted to discuss it here.

Quote
Since when have the Boy Scouts been about acceptance of immorality? The Boy Scouts have a moral code, and if you violate that code, you get expelled from the Boy Scouts. Is that not their right to do as a private organization?
What have homosexual boys done? Until they have done anything immoral, then they should not be expelled from being in the Boy Scouts.
When have I said otherwise?

What you are advocating is discrimination.
Yes, I know that. The Marine Corps discriminates, too. I'll bet even you discriminate, choosing to associate with some people and not with others. Does that make you evil? The question is: on what standards do we discriminate?

Anyway it can be argued that the Boy Scouts itself is rather gay.
I suppose that's your prerogative to say so. Not every boy I grew up with joined the Scouts. Most of them didn't.

Quote
You do realize that Carl has not advocated the criminalization of homosexual relations; in fact, he has stated the exact opposite, that homosexual relations should remain legal even if we do believe them immoral.
And yet until those gay boys have sex in a tent, you should not deny them a membership to the Boy Scouts.
Fixed that for you. Tell you what: Why don't you let the Boy Scouts set and enforce their own standards? If the Boy Scouts want to expel someone for having gay sex--doesn't matter if it's during a Scout function or not--and boasting about it, then let the Boy Scouts do that.

Quote
Again, please leave politics out of this discussion.
Yet discussing about keeping homosexual relations legal isn't politics why?

And the comparison absolutely has merit to the discussion. I would say it is analogous.
Then start a separate thread on the Politics board to make the legalization of homosexual marriage the focus of your discussion.
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« Reply #215 on: February 02, 2013, 01:06:37 PM »

If you read my other posts on this forum, you'll know I'm not a fan of tolerance.

Does anyone else find it odd that being a "fan of tolerance" is, on this forum, akin to an accusation of heresy?
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« Reply #216 on: February 02, 2013, 01:14:25 PM »

If you read my other posts on this forum, you'll know I'm not a fan of tolerance.

Does anyone else find it odd that being a "fan of tolerance" is, on this forum, akin to an accusation of heresy?

I won't speak for JamesRottnek, but the Gospel doesn't call for tolerance (that is a late liberal Capitalist value), it calls for love.

To use the example of someone I am compared to too often (MLK is the example used by whom I am accused of sounding like, I am not often compared to MLK for better and worse):

Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream wasn't a world one day in which the white man would tolerate the negro. It was a dream of love and truly living together amid all the messes such love and living creates, which often are by their nature nearly intolerable.

However, your point is taken.
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« Reply #217 on: February 02, 2013, 02:21:27 PM »

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

That's sort of interesting, because I've always thought the opposite: that Orthodoxy had a more refined and subtle approach and that Catholics were more heavy handed in the matter. I'm probably wrong as I don't know a ton about the Catholic position, just thought I'd say... Smiley

There are, I can't deny, some Catholics who are quite intolerant (the SSPX comes to mind).

I remember a conversation I overheard, several months ago, between 2 Catholics talking about a then-recent anti-bullying ad campaign. The point of the conversation was how awful it was that some of the ads were directed against the bullying of "gays".
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« Reply #218 on: February 02, 2013, 02:23:40 PM »

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

That's sort of interesting, because I've always thought the opposite: that Orthodoxy had a more refined and subtle approach and that Catholics were more heavy handed in the matter. I'm probably wrong as I don't know a ton about the Catholic position, just thought I'd say... Smiley

There are, I can't deny, some Catholics who are quite intolerant (the SSPX comes to mind).

I remember a conversation I overheard, several months ago, between 2 Catholics talking about a then-recent anti-bullying ad campaign. The point of the conversation was how awful it was that some of the ads were directed against the bullying of "gays".

To be fair to the judgements of *, he has probably only lived where RCs were stamped by the radical puritanism of this country.

Some of the best places (sane) I've been have been traditionally RC countries.
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« Reply #219 on: February 02, 2013, 02:37:31 PM »

You may know/recall that I have, on numerous occasions, admitted that there are areas in which we (Catholics) could learn from you (Orthodox). But it strikes me that you could really learn from us about condemning homosexual acts without condemning people for homosexual orientation.

That's sort of interesting, because I've always thought the opposite: that Orthodoxy had a more refined and subtle approach and that Catholics were more heavy handed in the matter. I'm probably wrong as I don't know a ton about the Catholic position, just thought I'd say... Smiley

There are, I can't deny, some Catholics who are quite intolerant (the SSPX comes to mind).

I remember a conversation I overheard, several months ago, between 2 Catholics talking about a then-recent anti-bullying ad campaign. The point of the conversation was how awful it was that some of the ads were directed against the bullying of "gays".

That's one I'll never understand. It's kind of an issue again, I guess, back home in N. California, since a few players from the 49ers who appeared in the "It Gets Better" anti-bullying ad have since come out and said that they didn't know it was directed against bullying of homosexuals, and if they had they wouldn't have done it (or some such; I've only read the news reports...never even seen the ads). I really have to wonder why. While I think the idea that gays should be treated as a "protected class" in the political/legislative sense is not right, if there is statistical evidence that they are more adversely affected by bullying in schools than other populations, I don't see why they shouldn't also be reached with the message that high school isn't the end of the freaking world. I can think of many other people who could've used such ad campaigns directed toward them before they ruined their lives and/or the lives of others over some ultimately petty and stupid high school BS (those "Trenchcoat Mafia" kids whose names escape me come to mind).
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« Reply #220 on: February 02, 2013, 03:05:23 PM »

Good post, dzheremi.

And I should add for the record that I haven't seen the ads either; so it's possible that they snuck in something encouraging everyone to worship flies or something. All I know is that the 2 Catholics I mentioned had a real problem with the fact that the ads were directed against the bullying of gay students. (Or at least one of them did; I think the other may have felt less strongly about it.)
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« Reply #221 on: February 02, 2013, 03:30:58 PM »

If only we could have a kind of reeducation camp or something...for gays.
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« Reply #222 on: February 02, 2013, 03:41:24 PM »

If only we could have a kind of reeducation camp or something...for gays.

I hope this is a joke.
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« Reply #223 on: February 02, 2013, 05:24:50 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.
Me neither. I'm pretty sure we're just ugly though.
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« Reply #224 on: February 02, 2013, 05:30:34 PM »

All pubescent kids are going to make sexual advances at each other sooner or later--homosexual or heterosexual...
Nobody ever made a sexual advance on me when I was growing up, nor did I ever make a sexual advance on someone else. I therefore don't understand why you have such a low opinion of teenagers.
Me neither. I'm pretty sure we're just ugly though.
I'm not ugly. I'm just a nerd. Grin
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