Author Topic: St. Apophis' censured homily about promiscious sex missing from The Philokalia  (Read 826 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
Okay not really.

So orthonorm, when does having too much sex become an issue? Is there even such a thing? Or when it creates harm to a person (or persons)?

Having sex 3 times a day is on the low end? Well how does one find the time for more?

What if I obsess over having sex with a person and consumes a lot of my thought?
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline LBK

  • No Reporting Allowed
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,247
  • Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!
  • Faith: Orthodox
Okay not really.

So orthonorm, when does having too much sex become an issue? Is there even such a thing? Or when it creates harm to a person (or persons)?

Having sex 3 times a day is on the low end? Well how does one find the time for more?

What if I obsess over having sex with a person and consumes a lot of my thought?

The last line says it all, Achronos. Pardon the frankness, but it's about time your brain came out from between your legs.  :police:
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Okay not really.

So orthonorm, when does having too much sex become an issue? Is there even such a thing? Or when it creates harm to a person (or persons)?

Having sex 3 times a day is on the low end? Well how does one find the time for more?

What if I obsess over having sex with a person and consumes a lot of my thought?

When I said elsewhere, I didn't mean here. And there are three things you have to think about here, what the Church would strictly teach, how the psychological medical profession would suggest what is disordered, and how you bring the two together.

Before I was just pointing out what I find to be normative behavior or potential behavior given my experience in life and reading around this subject, nothing that the Church would teach.

In short, the Church, well you know what they say.

In short, it is a clinical problem when any compulsive behavior begins to disorder your life. In the end, unless you go far off the deep end and the state gets involved, you will be the one who judges exactly what disordered is.

Again, that is all that I need to make clear. Some place else if you so desire.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
The more we sin, the more we become conditioned by sin. We cease to function normally.

I really think this discussion, Achronos, is best held between you and your spiritual father--that is, if you want real advice from someone who has responsibility and care for your soul. These posts of late are sort of the equivalent of walking naked through a crowded room where everyone else is clothed.
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
Okay not really.

So orthonorm, when does having too much sex become an issue? Is there even such a thing? Or when it creates harm to a person (or persons)?

Having sex 3 times a day is on the low end? Well how does one find the time for more?

What if I obsess over having sex with a person and consumes a lot of my thought?

The last line says it all, Achronos. Pardon the frankness, but it's about time your brain came out from between your legs.  :police:

It actually says nothing at all. We have no idea what "a lot" is. What "obsess" is. I think we live in a sorta pathology seeking world and it might be a reason some people find Orthodoxy attractive it gives them ammo to pathologize their lives. (Contrarywise, a it can be a way to spiritualize their pathologies: social phobia, sexual overscrupulosity, homophobia, misogyny, etc.)

In short, many are pathologically attempting to be pathological.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
The more we sin, the more we become conditioned by sin. We cease to function normally.

I really think this discussion, Achronos, is best held between you and your spiritual father--that is, if you want real advice from someone who has responsibility and care for your soul. These posts of late are sort of the equivalent of walking naked through a crowded room where everyone else is clothed.

I am so glad I can't picture things in my head.
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline Shiny

  • Site Supporter
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,267
  • Paint It Red
it might be a reason some people find Orthodoxy attractive it gives them ammo to pathologize their lives.
Hey religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure!!111

Quote
In short, many are pathologically attempting to be pathological.
Like a lot of the celebs that go to sex rehab? So you consider having sex/thoughts a disease when it starts to seriously affect cognitive functions, people around them and creating disorder in one's life?

Don't have to answer since you want to talk about it elsewhere. For me it's not serious enough to talk about it elsewhere, I just wanted a discussion about it.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 11:04:26 PM by Achronos »
“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,275
it might be a reason some people find Orthodoxy attractive it gives them ammo to pathologize their lives.
Hey religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure!!111

Quote
In short, many are pathologically attempting to be pathological.
Like a lot of the celebs that go to sex rehab? So you consider having sex/thoughts a disease when it starts to seriously affect cognitive functions, people around them and creating disorder in one's life?

Don't have to answer since you want to talk about it elsewhere. For me it's not serious enough to talk about it elsewhere, I just wanted a discussion about it.

It's not about what I think, it is about the nature of a disorder.

Such things are attempted to be measured as far they can be. So unless something is having negative consequences in your life for you, de nada. Disorders are almost always typical human behavior engaged in either frequency or in such a quality as to DISORDER one's life.

The Church has one view of this. Clinical psychology another.

Everyone is obsessive. Everyone has compulsions. Not everyone has OCD. Heck a person with OCD in one environment might not have it in another.

Some people can drink alcohol and get along in life just fine. Others cannot.

Trying to quantify or measure qualitatively the subjective experience of another is nearly impossible, so folks look at consequences, behavior, which might be strongly correlated with the subjective aspect of the a disorder. Everyone gets depressed, not everyone has had depression. So frequency of crying and under what conditions one cries is a better way to gauge one's state, than talking about one's subjective opinion about one's affective state.

This is psych 101. Sorry for the bore, just wanted to make myself clear.

So yes, think about sex all you want, but don't tell me you have a serious addiction till your behavior resembles that of people being restrained so that they cannot drink or use drugs while they detox.

You have an obsession and perhaps a compulsion and maybe a disorder, but I doubt it.

For the Church, these notions are much less clear and become even more muddled when persons attempt to marry them with clinical psychology. (See Fr. Meletios Webber.)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2013, 11:20:29 PM by orthonorm »
If you have PMed me, the mods have taken my ability to PM away. Please see my email if you wish to contact me during my time of trial.

Offline AustralianDiaspora

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Perhaps this is a remnant from my investigations into Buddhism so excuse me if I'm wrong, but the way I see sin (and have been taught/understood) is that it is not so much a moral issue, but more it is the simple fact that sin takes you further from God. In the case of things like food, sex etc., the physical pleasure is a distraction from where our focus really should be. Personally I have found that when I'm focused on God, my desire for physical pleasures of all kinds tends to decrease. Like everything, I imagine the key here is moderation.
I can no longer cope with the misogynism, bigotry, homophobia and racism here and I have given up this forum. Lord have mercy.

Offline Cyrillic

  • Arbiter Elegantiarum
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 10,861
  • Cyrillico est edere orbem universum
Having sex 3 times a day is on the low end? Well how does one find the time for more?

How does one even reload that fast?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2013, 10:03:35 AM by Cyrillic »
"April is the cruellest month, breeding
lilacs out of the dead land, mixing
memory and desire, stirring
dull roots with spring rain."
-T.S. Eliot

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,350
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Diocese of the South (OCA)
Perhaps this is a remnant from my investigations into Buddhism so excuse me if I'm wrong, but the way I see sin (and have been taught/understood) is that it is not so much a moral issue, but more it is the simple fact that sin takes you further from God. In the case of things like food, sex etc., the physical pleasure is a distraction from where our focus really should be. Personally I have found that when I'm focused on God, my desire for physical pleasures of all kinds tends to decrease. Like everything, I imagine the key here is moderation.

I have no clue about Buddhism except that it is a major religion. However, I think that your way of seeing sin is indeed the Orthodox way.