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Author Topic: Catholic Receiving Orthodox Communion  (Read 5661 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2013, 06:38:01 PM »

Ironically, even with their blatant rejection and disregard for anything Sacramental, I've never seen a single Protestant visitor at my Church attempt to receive the Eucharist, whereas Roman Catholics have tried and were told they could not.

An Protestant acquaintance of mine did so once. He spent the rest of the day in agony on the toilet.
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« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2013, 06:53:21 PM »

Roman Catholics make it VERY clear that Protestants cannot partake of Communion, so I'm sure Protestants wouldn't even think of it in a Church that seems even stranger than the Catholics.  Roll Eyes

Oh, in my previous OCA parish, the priest had the unfortunate task of turning away several irate Protestants who accused him at the altar of being uncharitable because they were Anglicans or Lutherans who believed in the Real Presence.
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« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2013, 06:58:22 PM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.
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« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2013, 07:03:32 PM »

There's actually been a thread about this in the not-too-distant past, right here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=36351.0

 Cool

Also, check this: http://www.orthodoxanswers.org/answer/29/

"In the nineteenth-century Russia, for example, Orthodox priests were allowed to give Communion to Roman Catholics in emergency situations if there was no Roman Catholic priest available.  In the 1970s, Russian Orthodox Metropolitan Nikodim of Leningrad temporarily allowed intercommunion with the Roman Catholic Church within the borders of his diocese.  The rare and very controversial practice, however, did not become widespread and was eventually terminated."

So obviously yes, it has happened, in the past, with the approval of the Orthodox hierarchy.
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« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2013, 07:05:07 PM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.

Wow.  If that happened to me I'd probably be on the floor, either crying or completely passed out.
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« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2013, 07:05:32 PM »

The Old Testament food given by an Angel?..
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« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2013, 09:01:20 PM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.

Wow.  If that happened to me I'd probably be on the floor, either crying or completely passed out.

God would probably have to do a lot more than spit flames at me; I'm a Mexican, we're used to spicy food.
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« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2013, 09:03:38 PM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.

Wow.  If that happened to me I'd probably be on the floor, either crying or completely passed out.

God would probably have to do a lot more than spit flames at me; I'm a Mexican, we're used to spicy food.

Do not test God.
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« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2013, 09:10:53 PM »

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).
I think some OCA parishes (if not many) allow any Christian to have antidoran.
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« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2013, 09:11:38 PM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.

Wow.  If that happened to me I'd probably be on the floor, either crying or completely passed out.

God would probably have to do a lot more than spit flames at me; I'm a Mexican, we're used to spicy food.

Do not test God.

I'm just kidding. Anyhow, I find your story very frightening, yet inspiring at the same time. I'm even afraid to approach the chalice now.
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« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2013, 09:38:28 PM »

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).
I think some OCA parishes (if not many) allow any Christian to have antidoran.

Ours do.  Is it the ROC that doesn't give antidoron to non-Orthodox?  I forgot.
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« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2013, 10:24:51 PM »

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).
I think some OCA parishes (if not many) allow any Christian to have antidoran.

Ours do.  Is it the ROC that doesn't give antidoron to non-Orthodox?  I forgot.

The Russian church in my neck of the woods does, as do the Greeks.
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« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2013, 10:28:27 PM »

I think some OCA parishes (if not many) allow any Christian to have antidoran.
Before seeing this and looking it up, I didn't even realize that anyone kept the antidoron from non-Orthodox.
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« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2013, 10:40:00 PM »

Ironically, even with their blatant rejection and disregard for anything Sacramental, I've never seen a single Protestant visitor at my Church attempt to receive the Eucharist, whereas Roman Catholics have tried and were told they could not.

Not to mention the fact that the Catholic Church has a rule that we could only receive from an Orthodox priest (even assuming finding a complicit one) if none of our own priests are available; whereas very few protestant denominations have such a rule.
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« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2013, 10:41:36 PM »

A properly educated catholic would know better than to commune at an Orthodox Church.  


"Properly educated"?

By whom?

I knew several Catholics who would imitate the Orthodox in such a way that the Orthodox Priest had no clue that they were not Orthodox. They would line up for communion, blend in with the regular parishioners, imitate them to the "t", and if the Priest asked him who their bishop was, they would give the first name of their Roman prelate and be given Holy Communion without any further questions. Sometimes the priest would come over to the newcomer during coffee hour and discover the truth from them or from their friends, but oftentimes, if the newcomer did not stay for coffee hour, this behavior would continue.

Wow, they should have spent an afternoon with my late Irish grandfather and they would never have tried that charade again.  I went to Catholic high school and grew up Irish Catholic'ed on one side of my family.  
Both would have harsh things to say to those pretenders at your parish.  What ever happen to good ol' Irish style Catholicism? did it get replaced with "I can do as I wish" Catholicism?

I think I have to agree with you here.

Of course, in the Catholic Church it's even easier: Catholic priests don't ask communicants if they're Catholic, who their bishop is, etc.
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2013, 10:44:58 PM »

Some of these folks were Eastern Catholics who had been rejected by their local Catholic Church, which told them to go back to the Orthodox Church.

Hold on a sec ... are you saying they converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, then converted back to Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2013, 11:19:19 PM »

Zapivka (antidoron) is given to non-Orthodox in my ROCOR parish.

I attest that I have known of situations where Roman Catholics have received Communion at an Orthodox church repeatedly, with the priest's full knowledge that they were not Orthodox and had no intention of becoming Orthodox. I saw it with my own eyes.

Don't get me started on giving Communion to men wearing wedding rings in situations when the wearer of the other ring is also a man.

I won't mention identifying information in public, so don't ask on here.
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2013, 11:24:36 PM »

Orban (= antidoron) is given to non-Orthodox visitors in my Coptic parish. I was not aware that there are jurisdictions where this is not the case.
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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2013, 11:48:41 PM »

Some of these folks were Eastern Catholics who had been rejected by their local Catholic Church, which told them to go back to the Orthodox Church.

Hold on a sec ... are you saying they converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, then converted back to Orthodoxy?

All Eastern Catholic Churches (with the possible exception of the Maronites) were originally Orthodox Christians who went into schism and joined the Vatican. When Roman Catholics told these Eastern Catholics to return to the Orthodox, they were telling them to return to their ancient roots.

My ancestors were Maronites/Melkites. We were raised Roman Catholics, but later my dad told us that we really should be Eastern Catholics. When we finally returned to our roots and embraced Orthodoxy, he was delighted.
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« Reply #64 on: January 31, 2013, 12:23:15 AM »

Well, Maria, that ended well.

By the way, I wasn't trying to shock anyone for the sake of shocking, but each Orthodox Christian is also a guardian of the purity of the faith, and in these times struggle is necessary to maintain the faith. Mainly by struggling against our own lower will and going from strength to strength, that is, virtue to virtue. "They shall mount up like eagles; they shall go from strength to strength." "They shall go from strength to strength; the God of gods shall be seen in Sion."
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« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2013, 07:35:56 AM »

Some of these folks were Eastern Catholics who had been rejected by their local Catholic Church, which told them to go back to the Orthodox Church.

Hold on a sec ... are you saying they converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism, then converted back to Orthodoxy?

All Eastern Catholic Churches (with the possible exception of the Maronites) were originally Orthodox Christians who went into schism and joined the Vatican. When Roman Catholics told these Eastern Catholics to return to the Orthodox, they were telling them to return to their ancient roots.

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

As far your idea that Greek Catholics converting to Orthodoxy should be called "go[ing] back to the Orthodox Church", I won't express disagreement. (You may recall the fireworks that erupted the last time I dared to do so.)
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« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2013, 07:56:51 AM »

Catholics cannot receive communion, under any circumstances, but are free to have some antidoran in many western parishes (though not all).

I attended the DL at an Antiochian Orthodox parish and several nice people brought me some antidoran - guess they saw me sitting out Communion, felt sorry for me and wanted to make sure I got something!  Grin

It is quite a great gesture to make guests feel welcome.  Although our priest has asked the parishioners to refrain from this because there have been cases that the people have been so warm and welcoming to a few guests, they end up with a bunch of antidoron in their hands, more than they can eat at the time.

 Grin
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« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2013, 10:47:47 AM »

My godmother told me about a Catholic who tried to receive Holy Communion from the hands of an Orthodox Priest. He thought that she was Orthodox in the manner in which she approached the chalice with reverence. However, as he started to give her the Eucharist, she backed away with her eyes wide open in fear. Then he asked her if she were Orthodox, and she replied, "No." He told her to stay in the church and see him after the Divine Liturgy and then explained why she should not be receiving. She explained that a tongue of fire came out of the chalice and startled her. She became a catechumen and was received by Chrismation six months later.

Wow.  If that happened to me I'd probably be on the floor, either crying or completely passed out.

God would probably have to do a lot more than spit flames at me; I'm a Mexican, we're used to spicy food.

God is Mexican. That's why we're permitted to eat shrimp and avocados during lent.
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« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2013, 01:12:25 PM »

God is Mexican. That's why we're permitted to eat shrimp and avocados during lent.

Possible sigline material.  Love it!
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« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2013, 06:23:50 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.
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« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2013, 06:43:09 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.

I agree there.  Those OICWR types (which I myself was) are really searching for Orthodoxy without the complication of leaving communion with the Pope.  Most are cradle Catholics, a number of them RCs, who have discovered Orthodoxy but wouldn't want to just give up the Pope.  It is hard after being taught throughout your life that you have to be in communion with the Pope.  Eastern Catholicism is the easy solution, but usually it is a bit lacking as a solution because many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.  Some do faithfully follow Orthodox tradition, but a bigger number don't.  I think "Orthodox" EC parishes are about as common as Tridentine Mass parishes in the Latin Rite.  So eventually there is that disappointment and sometimes dissention for not getting what we were looking for.  So a good number like myself end up Orthodox.  I don't know about those others, but so far I'm happy with my decision.
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« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2013, 09:20:56 PM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.

I agree there.  Those OICWR types (which I myself was) are really searching for Orthodoxy without the complication of leaving communion with the Pope.  Most are cradle Catholics, a number of them RCs, who have discovered Orthodoxy but wouldn't want to just give up the Pope.  It is hard after being taught throughout your life that you have to be in communion with the Pope.  Eastern Catholicism is the easy solution, but usually it is a bit lacking as a solution because many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.  Some do faithfully follow Orthodox tradition, but a bigger number don't.  I think "Orthodox" EC parishes are about as common as Tridentine Mass parishes in the Latin Rite.  So eventually there is that disappointment and sometimes dissention for not getting what we were looking for.  So a good number like myself end up Orthodox.  I don't know about those others, but so far I'm happy with my decision.

Does OICWR stand for: "Orthodox In Communion With Rome"?

When I was in the Melkite Catholic Church, almost our entire parish, except those fleeing from the Novus Ordo Mass, considered ourselves to be "OICWR," especially when the neighboring RC parish of St. Charles Borromeo told the RCs that the Melkites were Eastern Orthodox in schism with Rome.  Roll Eyes

There were some in the Melkite Catholic Church who were still Roman Catholics. These refugees from Vatican II modernism and its Novus Ordo attended the Divine Liturgy in the Melkite Catholic Church, but prayed the Rosary on their knees while the Divine Liturgy was being celebrated. They did not like the SSPX, nor did they consider themselves to be sedevacantists, but truly, they did not feel at home in the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church either.

In the words of my Melkite Bishop, I quite happily crossed over to the Orthodox "using the Eastern Catholic Church as a bridge." Did I ever receive communion in the Orthodox Church while a Melkite? No. I waited until I was received by Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2013, 09:15:41 AM »

... many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.

Just once, I'd like to hear someone say "Many Orthodox parishes aren't EC enough."
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« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2013, 09:19:49 AM »

... many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.

Just once, I'd like to hear someone say "Many Orthodox parishes aren't EC enough."


A quintessential exercise in futility, I'm afraid.  Wink
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« Reply #74 on: February 03, 2013, 07:38:04 PM »

Thank you, Peter, you made me chortle, halfway through a very long (but good!) day.

I am enjoying the dangerous edge afforded me by my "Warned" status.

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« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2013, 10:52:35 PM »

I have the death sentence in 12 systems.
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« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2013, 03:40:46 AM »

Let's keep it on topic or I will lock this thread.  Thank you -username! Orthodox-Catholic moderator
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« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2013, 03:45:52 AM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.

I agree there.  Those OICWR types (which I myself was) are really searching for Orthodoxy without the complication of leaving communion with the Pope.  Most are cradle Catholics, a number of them RCs, who have discovered Orthodoxy but wouldn't want to just give up the Pope.  It is hard after being taught throughout your life that you have to be in communion with the Pope.  Eastern Catholicism is the easy solution, but usually it is a bit lacking as a solution because many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.  Some do faithfully follow Orthodox tradition, but a bigger number don't.  I think "Orthodox" EC parishes are about as common as Tridentine Mass parishes in the Latin Rite.  So eventually there is that disappointment and sometimes dissention for not getting what we were looking for.  So a good number like myself end up Orthodox.  I don't know about those others, but so far I'm happy with my decision.

Does OICWR stand for: "Orthodox In Communion With Rome"?

When I was in the Melkite Catholic Church, almost our entire parish, except those fleeing from the Novus Ordo Mass, considered ourselves to be "OICWR," especially when the neighboring RC parish of St. Charles Borromeo told the RCs that the Melkites were Eastern Orthodox in schism with Rome.  Roll Eyes

There were some in the Melkite Catholic Church who were still Roman Catholics. These refugees from Vatican II modernism and its Novus Ordo attended the Divine Liturgy in the Melkite Catholic Church, but prayed the Rosary on their knees while the Divine Liturgy was being celebrated. They did not like the SSPX, nor did they consider themselves to be sedevacantists, but truly, they did not feel at home in the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church either.

In the words of my Melkite Bishop, I quite happily crossed over to the Orthodox "using the Eastern Catholic Church as a bridge." Did I ever receive communion in the Orthodox Church while a Melkite? No. I waited until I was received by Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

When I was a Melkite Eastern Catholic, one of our deacons received Communion during his travels when  there was no Eastern Catholic Church. He would simply contact the Orthodox Priest who would usually request him to go to Confession beforehand. And this happened worldwide: in Australia, in parts of the USA, in Europe, in the Middle East, and in Greece too.
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« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2013, 03:48:43 AM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.

I agree there.  Those OICWR types (which I myself was) are really searching for Orthodoxy without the complication of leaving communion with the Pope.  Most are cradle Catholics, a number of them RCs, who have discovered Orthodoxy but wouldn't want to just give up the Pope.  It is hard after being taught throughout your life that you have to be in communion with the Pope.  Eastern Catholicism is the easy solution, but usually it is a bit lacking as a solution because many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.  Some do faithfully follow Orthodox tradition, but a bigger number don't.  I think "Orthodox" EC parishes are about as common as Tridentine Mass parishes in the Latin Rite.  So eventually there is that disappointment and sometimes dissention for not getting what we were looking for.  So a good number like myself end up Orthodox.  I don't know about those others, but so far I'm happy with my decision.

Does OICWR stand for: "Orthodox In Communion With Rome"?

When I was in the Melkite Catholic Church, almost our entire parish, except those fleeing from the Novus Ordo Mass, considered ourselves to be "OICWR," especially when the neighboring RC parish of St. Charles Borromeo told the RCs that the Melkites were Eastern Orthodox in schism with Rome.  Roll Eyes

There were some in the Melkite Catholic Church who were still Roman Catholics. These refugees from Vatican II modernism and its Novus Ordo attended the Divine Liturgy in the Melkite Catholic Church, but prayed the Rosary on their knees while the Divine Liturgy was being celebrated. They did not like the SSPX, nor did they consider themselves to be sedevacantists, but truly, they did not feel at home in the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church either.

In the words of my Melkite Bishop, I quite happily crossed over to the Orthodox "using the Eastern Catholic Church as a bridge." Did I ever receive communion in the Orthodox Church while a Melkite? No. I waited until I was received by Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

When I was a Melkite Eastern Catholic, one of our deacons received Communion during his travels when  there was no Eastern Catholic Church. He would simply contact the Orthodox Priest who would usually request him to go to Confession beforehand. And this happened worldwide: in Australia, in parts of the USA, in Europe, in the Middle East, and in Greece too.

Yes, as I mentioned it does happen out there.  And usually for Eastern Catholics.  Probably not as much for Roman Catholics.  Those cases that I have heard of that Catholics are allowed by the Orthodox priest to receive are Eastern Catholics.  I haven't heard of an RC being welcomed to receive in an Orthodox parish.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 03:49:33 AM by choy » Logged
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« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2013, 03:53:19 AM »

Thanks for the clarification. I still think it's quite shocking: their local Catholic Church told them to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy?  Shocked But perhaps you guys feel differently about it than I do.

P.S. Apologies to those readers who have seen this quote before, but I can't help thinking of it whenever Catholics tell (Eastern) Catholics to leave Catholicism for Orthodoxy:

Quote from: Fr. J. Steele
The OICWR crowd is a tiny but vocal minority resident mostly online at ByzCath. They are not representative of the countless good Eastern Catholics one finds in church on Sunday.

I would beg to differ that these malcontents do not display a toxic anti-Westernism. That is pretty much all they are about, save a tenuous and virtually meaningless communion with Rome.

Most dox. And they should, in the interest of honesty.

I agree there.  Those OICWR types (which I myself was) are really searching for Orthodoxy without the complication of leaving communion with the Pope.  Most are cradle Catholics, a number of them RCs, who have discovered Orthodoxy but wouldn't want to just give up the Pope.  It is hard after being taught throughout your life that you have to be in communion with the Pope.  Eastern Catholicism is the easy solution, but usually it is a bit lacking as a solution because many EC parishes aren't "Orthodox" enough.  Some do faithfully follow Orthodox tradition, but a bigger number don't.  I think "Orthodox" EC parishes are about as common as Tridentine Mass parishes in the Latin Rite.  So eventually there is that disappointment and sometimes dissention for not getting what we were looking for.  So a good number like myself end up Orthodox.  I don't know about those others, but so far I'm happy with my decision.

Does OICWR stand for: "Orthodox In Communion With Rome"?

When I was in the Melkite Catholic Church, almost our entire parish, except those fleeing from the Novus Ordo Mass, considered ourselves to be "OICWR," especially when the neighboring RC parish of St. Charles Borromeo told the RCs that the Melkites were Eastern Orthodox in schism with Rome.  Roll Eyes

There were some in the Melkite Catholic Church who were still Roman Catholics. These refugees from Vatican II modernism and its Novus Ordo attended the Divine Liturgy in the Melkite Catholic Church, but prayed the Rosary on their knees while the Divine Liturgy was being celebrated. They did not like the SSPX, nor did they consider themselves to be sedevacantists, but truly, they did not feel at home in the Melkite Eastern Catholic Church either.

In the words of my Melkite Bishop, I quite happily crossed over to the Orthodox "using the Eastern Catholic Church as a bridge." Did I ever receive communion in the Orthodox Church while a Melkite? No. I waited until I was received by Chrismation in the Orthodox Church.

When I was a Melkite Eastern Catholic, one of our deacons received Communion during his travels when  there was no Eastern Catholic Church. He would simply contact the Orthodox Priest who would usually request him to go to Confession beforehand. And this happened worldwide: in Australia, in parts of the USA, in Europe, in the Middle East, and in Greece too.

Alot of this happens.  But since the internet says it doesn't then it must not.  Even though it happens in real life outside the internet Smiley
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« Reply #80 on: February 04, 2013, 02:48:32 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.
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« Reply #81 on: February 04, 2013, 02:49:39 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
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« Reply #82 on: February 04, 2013, 02:50:34 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.
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« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2013, 02:51:01 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?

How 'bout 'em?  Is what they call "Eucharist" (do they call it that??) truly the Body and Blood of Christ?
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« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2013, 02:56:30 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.

Now you see where we are coming from.
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« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2013, 03:00:50 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.

Now you see where we are coming from.

So...now we're back to the "ours (Orthodox) really is the Body and Blood but yours (Catholic) isn't" argument between Catholics and Orthodox?

If that is so, why are Orthodox and Catholics sometimes permitted to partake of the others' Communion?
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« Reply #86 on: February 04, 2013, 03:24:13 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.
Now you see where we are coming from.
Except we really aren't "coming from" the same place. The Eastern Orthodox answer to whether the Eucharist exists outside the Church is "we don't know." We actually believe that Anglican and Lutheran "communion" does not have the Real Presence.
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« Reply #87 on: February 04, 2013, 03:35:36 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.
Now you see where we are coming from.
Except we really aren't "coming from" the same place. The Eastern Orthodox answer to whether the Eucharist exists outside the Church is "we don't know." We actually believe that Anglican and Lutheran "communion" does not have the Real Presence.

Depends who you ask really.  Do you think those who rebaptize Catholic converts would just leave it a vague "we don't know" when clearly even baptism isn't viewed as "valid"?

The Orthodox actually have a very different viewpoint on how the Eucharist comes to be, not in the mechanical way the Catholics have defined it.  If a small group of lay Orthodox Christians are trapped in an island and all they have is rice crackers and apple juice, can they celebrate the Eucharist?  The Catholic Church would say "no" definitively.  The Orthodox Church wouldn't say outright "yes" or "no", but believing in the mercy of God and the circumstances of the people who cannot possibly have the proper bread and wine, we don't discount the possibility that God will grant these people the Eucharist.

And going to your point of "we don't know."  You're right, we don't.  So why would we even take that risk?  I personally believe the Eucharist is present in the Catholic Church, but that is my own personal opinion which I am not going to push on the Church.  So why are you complaining if we say "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion"?  We knows ours is valid, and we don't know (as a whole) if yours is.  So why are we going to put them in the same category?
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« Reply #88 on: February 04, 2013, 03:36:43 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.

Now you see where we are coming from.

So...now we're back to the "ours (Orthodox) really is the Body and Blood but yours (Catholic) isn't" argument between Catholics and Orthodox?

If that is so, why are Orthodox and Catholics sometimes permitted to partake of the others' Communion?

I've heard of Catholics receiving in Orthodox parishes but not the other way around.  But of course, I do not know everything.
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« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2013, 04:09:39 PM »

I disagree with the terminology "Catholic Communion" and "Orthodox Communion" when referring to the Holy Eucharist. It's either the Eucharist or it isn't. Jesus doesn't come in different flavors.

How about the Lutherans and Anglicans?
I call theirs bread and wine, because that's what it is.

Now you see where we are coming from.

So...now we're back to the "ours (Orthodox) really is the Body and Blood but yours (Catholic) isn't" argument between Catholics and Orthodox?

I think the discussion could easily go there next, but it hasn't yet. Unless I missed something.
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