OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 24, 2014, 08:51:14 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Catholic Receiving Orthodox Communion  (Read 6597 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2013, 04:29:47 PM »

I think something that is missed by Wyatt's "there are no different flavors of Jesus" approach to talking about the Eucharist is the fact that we call it "communion" because it has everything to do with community (this being one of the definitions of κοινωνία, if I'm not mistaken). This isn't to say that Catholics don't have community and Orthodox do (or vice-versa), but it does explain how we can stay out of discussions about the nature of other churches' Eucharist while still forbidding our people to commune with them. As I have been told by people in my church regarding visiting the OCA back home on holidays, "We don't commune with them." Not "they don't have a true Eucharist" or "their Eucharist is 'invalid'" or whatever, just "we don't commune with them". It doesn't really say anything about their Eucharist, but it does address the reality of our separation from them.

Just an idea.
Logged

choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #91 on: February 04, 2013, 06:16:31 PM »

I think something that is missed by Wyatt's "there are no different flavors of Jesus" approach to talking about the Eucharist is the fact that we call it "communion" because it has everything to do with community (this being one of the definitions of κοινωνία, if I'm not mistaken). This isn't to say that Catholics don't have community and Orthodox do (or vice-versa), but it does explain how we can stay out of discussions about the nature of other churches' Eucharist while still forbidding our people to commune with them. As I have been told by people in my church regarding visiting the OCA back home on holidays, "We don't commune with them." Not "they don't have a true Eucharist" or "their Eucharist is 'invalid'" or whatever, just "we don't commune with them". It doesn't really say anything about their Eucharist, but it does address the reality of our separation from them.

Just an idea.

Great point!
Logged
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,686



« Reply #92 on: February 04, 2013, 07:20:51 PM »

I've heard of Catholics receiving in Orthodox parishes but not the other way around.  But of course, I do not know everything.
I've heard of a number of Orthodox receiving at Catholic parishes when they visit, go on vacation, etc. I'm pretty certain they don't have permission, and don't see the need to obtain it. I think quite a few of the cradles from my parish do this.
Logged
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #93 on: February 04, 2013, 07:21:55 PM »

I've heard of Catholics receiving in Orthodox parishes but not the other way around.  But of course, I do not know everything.
I've heard of a number of Orthodox receiving at Catholic parishes when they visit, go on vacation, etc. I'm pretty certain they don't have permission, and don't see the need to obtain it. I think quite a few of the cradles from my parish do this.

Do you think their priest would approve?  I know mine won't.
Logged
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,686



« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2013, 07:23:22 PM »

Do you think their priest would approve?  I know mine won't.
Absolutely not. In fact, I had asked my priest how to properly behave when attending a Catholic mass (with friends, at weddings, etc.), and there was no question that it was improper to receive.

Doesn't necessarily stop the parishioners from communing without telling him, though.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2013, 07:23:48 PM by Nephi » Logged
Wyatt
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Posts: 2,395


« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2013, 04:48:16 PM »

I think something that is missed by Wyatt's "there are no different flavors of Jesus" approach to talking about the Eucharist is the fact that we call it "communion" because it has everything to do with community (this being one of the definitions of κοινωνία, if I'm not mistaken). This isn't to say that Catholics don't have community and Orthodox do (or vice-versa), but it does explain how we can stay out of discussions about the nature of other churches' Eucharist while still forbidding our people to commune with them. As I have been told by people in my church regarding visiting the OCA back home on holidays, "We don't commune with them." Not "they don't have a true Eucharist" or "their Eucharist is 'invalid'" or whatever, just "we don't commune with them". It doesn't really say anything about their Eucharist, but it does address the reality of our separation from them.

Just an idea.
I get where you are coming from. However, I am comforted by the fact that my Church teaches what is and is not the Eucharist. If I were ever in a dire situation and, assuming I got permission from the EO Priest, it is good to know I can receive in the EO Church. I would not do it under normal circumstances though, both out of respect for the EOC and because, since we are not in full communion, it wouldn't be appropriate to do so frivolously. I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,474


« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2013, 04:49:06 PM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 04:49:21 PM by Michał Kalina » Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,233


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2013, 05:56:06 PM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.

I'm curious to know what your own priest would do in such a situation.  You know, a Catholic in imminent danger of death requests the Sacraments, including Holy Communion, of him and there's no Catholic priest available--what would he do?
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,442


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2013, 06:01:15 PM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.

I'm curious to know what your own priest would do in such a situation.  You know, a Catholic in imminent danger of death requests the Sacraments, including Holy Communion, of him and there's no Catholic priest available--what would he do?

None of the dozen or so Orthodox priests, across several jurisdictions and ethnicities I have known in my 50 or so years in Orthodoxy would give communion to a heterodox under any circumstances, unless that person converted first. They quite rightly take their vow of guarding the chalice very seriously.
Logged
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2013, 06:01:45 PM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.

I'm curious to know what your own priest would do in such a situation.  You know, a Catholic in imminent danger of death requests the Sacraments, including Holy Communion, of him and there's no Catholic priest available--what would he do?

Knowing my own priest, I'm guessing he would do prayers and blessings but not give the Sacraments.
Logged
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #100 on: February 05, 2013, 06:02:52 PM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.

I'm curious to know what your own priest would do in such a situation.  You know, a Catholic in imminent danger of death requests the Sacraments, including Holy Communion, of him and there's no Catholic priest available--what would he do?

None of the dozen or so Orthodox priests, across several jurisdictions and ethnicities I have known in my 50 or so years in Orthodoxy would give communion to a heterodox under any circumstances, unless that person converted first. They quite rightly take their vow of guarding the chalice very seriously.

How about anointing?  Do you think they would anoint?  Curious here.
Logged
Fr.Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 503


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #101 on: February 05, 2013, 07:42:20 PM »

Deathbed Communion cannot be given except to those who belong to the Greco-Russian Eastern Orthodox Church. The exception regarding this that was made by the Moscow Patriarchate for a few years recently, has been rescinded and the normative practice has resumed. But if some other sort of Christian wished to join the Orthodox Church, that could be accomplished by economia in an instant, and Communion could follow the instant after that.

Non-sacramental anointings can be given to non-Orthodox. Holy Unction can't.
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,474


« Reply #102 on: February 06, 2013, 03:42:13 AM »

What is a "Greco-Russian Eastern Orthodox Church"? Another one living-room synod?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 03:42:27 AM by Michał Kalina » Logged
Dominika
Serbian/Polish
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of Poland
Posts: 1,055


St. Luke, pray for us!


WWW
« Reply #103 on: February 06, 2013, 03:46:32 AM »

What is a "Greco-Russian Eastern Orthodox Church"? Another one living-room synod?

First time have heard about this Church (or: "Church"). Maybe fr. Aidan meant "Russian Greek-Catholic Church"?... But the word "Orthodox" it's not apropriate, although some Greek-Catholics like call themselves "Orthodox" as you know
Logged

Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #104 on: February 06, 2013, 06:58:33 AM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?
Logged
mike
Stratopedarches
**************
Offline Offline

Posts: 21,474


« Reply #105 on: February 06, 2013, 07:02:53 AM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?

When he wills to make an apostasy.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #106 on: February 06, 2013, 07:10:58 AM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?

When he wills to make an apostasy.
To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?
Logged
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,442


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #107 on: February 06, 2013, 07:16:35 AM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?

When he wills to make an apostasy.
To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?

Michal is right. To knowingly receive non-Orthodox communion is, in effect, to apostasize. If the Church does not condone an Orthodox person or couple marrying outside the Church, then how much more serious is it for an Orthodox person to partake of heterodox communion? Think about it.
Logged
Kerdy
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 5,732


« Reply #108 on: February 06, 2013, 07:22:03 AM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?

When he wills to make an apostasy.
To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?

Michal is right. To knowingly receive non-Orthodox communion is, in effect, to apostasize. If the Church does not condone an Orthodox person or couple marrying outside the Church, then how much more serious is it for an Orthodox person to partake of heterodox communion? Think about it.
I’m not saying I disagree, but wanting to clarify.  I was under the understanding ones Bishop could authorize it for a temporary amount of time.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,193


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2013, 07:23:19 AM »

To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?

Whether he goes to the Catholic priest or not he will have no confession, no communion, etc. I believe that God will grant such a person grace in a mystical way in such cases.
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 9,815


Cyrillico est imperare orbi universo


« Reply #110 on: February 06, 2013, 07:24:33 AM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?
Logged

"Claret is the liquor for boys; port for men; but he who aspires to be a hero must drink brandy."
-Dr. Samuel Johnson
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,442


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #111 on: February 06, 2013, 07:29:43 AM »

To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?

Whether he goes to the Catholic priest or not he will have no confession, no communion, etc. I believe that God will grant such a person grace in a mystical way in such cases.

This. Better to go without, and continue to pray. St Mary of Egypt went without for many years, as did any number of hermit-saints and pillar-dwellers, yet their patience and forbearance is an example to us all. God is not ignorant of anyone's efforts.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,193


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #112 on: February 06, 2013, 07:30:15 AM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

I once posted this, as my understanding of what happens, at least in America...

Fwiw, I've been at a couple Antiochian parishes that has allowed people of different groups (I think always Oriental Orthodox) to participate in the sacraments. In talked with one of the priests about this, he explained to me that, so far as he understood, someone wasn't supposed to simply come and go and be able to take communion whenever they wanted. Rather, if someone was too far away from a parish of their own group, and that person was willing to become part of the Eastern Orthodox parish, they would be allowed to join the parish and commune/confess/etc. without being required to make any particular statement of faith or renunciation of this or that belief. Only the priest/bishop over the parish will know for sure for that parish... so it's possible, but good to ask to be certain.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 07:31:50 AM by Asteriktos » Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #113 on: February 06, 2013, 06:58:48 PM »

What is a "Greco-Russian Eastern Orthodox Church"?

Good question. I was assuming that Fr. Aidan was using "Greco-Russian" to distinguish from the Non-Chalcedonian Orthodox (although I'm not sure why that would be necessary, since we already have the usual qualifiers "Eastern" vs. "Oriental").
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2013, 07:09:05 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

In places where there's persecution, intercommunion happens.  I guess when we have our backs against the wall, those petty theological arguments doesn't seem as important.
Logged
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2013, 07:36:49 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

I once posted this, as my understanding of what happens, at least in America...

Fwiw, I've been at a couple Antiochian parishes that has allowed people of different groups (I think always Oriental Orthodox) to participate in the sacraments. In talked with one of the priests about this, he explained to me that, so far as he understood, someone wasn't supposed to simply come and go and be able to take communion whenever they wanted. Rather, if someone was too far away from a parish of their own group, and that person was willing to become part of the Eastern Orthodox parish, they would be allowed to join the parish and commune/confess/etc. without being required to make any particular statement of faith or renunciation of this or that belief. Only the priest/bishop over the parish will know for sure for that parish... so it's possible, but good to ask to be certain.

This is how it is back home in Northern California with the local Ethiopians and Eritreans. They attend the OCA or the Bulgarian Church because there is an agreement in place that allows them to do so, since there is no OO church of any jurisdiction within a reasonable distance. I assume that if there were to be an Ethiopian or Eritrean Church in the area at some point in the future (and they're the only visible OO presence in the area, so it would be one of those), they'd go to that instead. It's a stop-gap solution for now, since there's enough of them that they are a recognized community within the patchwork of Orthodox people in the area, but apparently not enough (or they don't have enough money, or the appropriate land) for them to have an actual church. Living in an area now where the local Copts have gathered for 16 years in a private house for liturgy, I can relate to their situation. It's not ideal, but it is very nice to have local OCA and Bulgarians be so welcoming.
Logged

J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,233


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #116 on: February 06, 2013, 07:56:38 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

In places where there's persecution, intercommunion happens.  I guess when we have our backs against the wall, those petty theological arguments doesn't seem as important.

There are places where there is NOT persecution where intercommunion between Catholics and Orthodox occurs.  Shhhh......don't tell anybody, though--might rattle some cages.  This has been discussed in some depth on other threads here in the past.  That's all I'm gonna say about it on this one (I hope  Wink!).
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
choy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,316


« Reply #117 on: February 06, 2013, 07:59:41 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

In places where there's persecution, intercommunion happens.  I guess when we have our backs against the wall, those petty theological arguments doesn't seem as important.

There are places where there is NOT persecution where intercommunion between Catholics and Orthodox occurs.  Shhhh......don't tell anybody, though--might rattle some cages.  This has been discussed in some depth on other threads here in the past.  That's all I'm gonna say about it on this one (I hope  Wink!).

I know, and like you I refuse to disclose further information for fear that they may be unfairly judged.
Logged
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,233


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #118 on: February 06, 2013, 08:02:51 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

In places where there's persecution, intercommunion happens.  I guess when we have our backs against the wall, those petty theological arguments doesn't seem as important.

There are places where there is NOT persecution where intercommunion between Catholics and Orthodox occurs.  Shhhh......don't tell anybody, though--might rattle some cages.  This has been discussed in some depth on other threads here in the past.  That's all I'm gonna say about it on this one (I hope  Wink!).

I know, and like you I refuse to disclose further information for fear that they may be unfairly judged.

 Wink
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Fr.Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 503


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #119 on: February 06, 2013, 08:10:56 PM »

There have also been "discreet" instances of inter-communion between Orthodox and Episcopalians, and Orthodox and Lutherans, and Orthodox and Anglicans, and doubtless other interesting combinations.

However, for an Eastern Orthodox to take communion in a non-Eastern Orthodox church, is apostasy and is a grievous sin. Much better to die IN communion WITHOUT communion, than to die OUT of communion WITH "communion." For then you die outside the Church, which is the Body of Christ. This issue very often came up back in Arianism's heyday.

It is also completely not possible for an Eastern Orthodox priest to give communion to an Oriental Orthodox, or a Roman Catholic, or a Lutheran, or an Anglican, although it certainly happens. Many other "impossible" things do happen from time to time, but private unbelief doesn't erase the dogma, and private conduct doesn't alter the rule.

"Greco-Russian" is how the Eastern Orthodox Church was distinguished from other faith-confessions, back in the day. It just means the faith of the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox, which includes all the other Chalcedonian Orthodox. The modern distinction between "Eastern" Orthodox and "Oriental" Orthodox was very recently promoted and I read some old fuddy-duddy books. Even the distinction between "Roman Catholic" and "Eastern Orthodox" (whether Chalcedonian or anti-Chalcedonian) is of very recent vintage, comparatively. "Greek Catholic" used to mean "Greek Orthodox," etc., etc. So I was speaking in a slightly antique fashion, for no particular reason. 

« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 08:14:20 PM by Fr.Aidan » Logged
thethinker
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73



« Reply #120 on: February 06, 2013, 08:37:01 PM »

A Catholic priest answered a question about whether a Catholic may receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church:

Quote
So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

Where does the scripture say that one needs permsission to receive the eucharist? When Paul regulated it he said nothing about needing permssion.
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,390


fleem
WWW
« Reply #121 on: February 06, 2013, 08:47:34 PM »

A Catholic priest answered a question about whether a Catholic may receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church:

Quote
So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

Where does the scripture say that one needs permsission to receive the eucharist? When Paul regulated it he said nothing about needing permssion.

In John Ch. 6, it talks extensively about the nature of Holy Communion, which is the Body and Blood of Christ. In Paul's letters he also says he doesn't want you to receive in an unworthy state, or else you may eat and drink unto your condemnation.
Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
thethinker
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73



« Reply #122 on: February 06, 2013, 08:52:39 PM »

A Catholic priest answered a question about whether a Catholic may receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church:

Quote
So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

Where does the scripture say that one needs permsission to receive the eucharist? When Paul regulated it he said nothing about needing permssion.

In John Ch. 6, it talks extensively about the nature of Holy Communion, which is the Body and Blood of Christ. In Paul's letters he also says he doesn't want you to receive in an unworthy state, or else you may eat and drink unto your condemnation.

Paul told each man to examine HIMSELF. This implies that the man HIMSELF determines whether or not he is worthy. Btw, this would have nothing to do with an Orthodox priest giving permission to a Catholic priest and vice versa.
Logged
Fr.Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 503


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #123 on: February 06, 2013, 08:52:56 PM »

Why would it be in the Bible? The Bible has a lot of other information to impart, to be worrying with every detail. Of course the foundation for this is laid in the epistles of St. Paul. It's like expecting the United States Constitution to contain detailed regulations on truck exhaust - why would it?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 08:53:35 PM by Fr.Aidan » Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #124 on: February 06, 2013, 08:54:19 PM »

A Catholic priest answered a question about whether a Catholic may receive the Eucharist in an Orthodox Church:

Quote
So if you are stationed in a country where no Roman Catholic church is nearby, say within an hour’s drive, but there is a Greek Orthodox church near you, you can lawfully — according to the Catholic Code of Canon Law — attend their liturgical services and receive holy Communion, or confession, or the anointing of the sick, because all seven sacraments instituted by Christ are valid in the Orthodox churches.

I think the priest forgot to mention one thing: the Catholic would need to get approval from the Orthodox priest before receiving Communion; whether the Orthodox priest would agree to this, is another story.

Where does the scripture say that one needs permsission to receive the eucharist? When Paul regulated it he said nothing about needing permssion.
Paul didn't say anything about a lot of stuff. Wink
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #125 on: February 06, 2013, 09:18:19 PM »

It is also completely not possible for an Eastern Orthodox priest to give communion to an Oriental Orthodox, or a Roman Catholic, or a Lutheran, or an Anglican, although it certainly happens. Many other "impossible" things do happen from time to time, but private unbelief doesn't erase the dogma, and private conduct doesn't alter the rule.

If you've done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways?
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #126 on: February 06, 2013, 09:22:00 PM »

Don't OO and EO laity intercommune to some degree even in the US? I've heard that there's practical intercommunion in Syria between Antiochians, Melkites and Jacobites. Would that qualify as apostasy?

I once posted this, as my understanding of what happens, at least in America...

Fwiw, I've been at a couple Antiochian parishes that has allowed people of different groups (I think always Oriental Orthodox) to participate in the sacraments. In talked with one of the priests about this, he explained to me that, so far as he understood, someone wasn't supposed to simply come and go and be able to take communion whenever they wanted. Rather, if someone was too far away from a parish of their own group, and that person was willing to become part of the Eastern Orthodox parish, they would be allowed to join the parish and commune/confess/etc. without being required to make any particular statement of faith or renunciation of this or that belief. Only the priest/bishop over the parish will know for sure for that parish... so it's possible, but good to ask to be certain.

This is how it is back home in Northern California with the local Ethiopians and Eritreans. They attend the OCA or the Bulgarian Church because there is an agreement in place that allows them to do so, since there is no OO church of any jurisdiction within a reasonable distance.  

That sounds a lot like us: for example, Catholic priests don't give communion to Anglicans just because they ask; but they might in a dire situation, where no Anglican minister is available (assuming other conditions are met, e.g. the Anglican must share our understanding of the Eucharist).
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
thethinker
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 73



« Reply #127 on: February 06, 2013, 10:21:13 PM »

Paul didn't say anything about a lot of stuff. Wink

Then we have the liberty of conscience to observe the eucharist without another man's permission.
Logged
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #128 on: February 06, 2013, 10:25:26 PM »

Paul didn't say anything about a lot of stuff. Wink

Then we have the liberty of conscience to observe the eucharist without another man's permission.
If you're sola scriptura, sure. Shocked
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,686



« Reply #129 on: February 06, 2013, 10:26:22 PM »

Paul didn't say anything about a lot of stuff. Wink

Then we have the liberty of conscience to observe the eucharist without another man's permission.
Orthodoxy does not ascribe to sola scriptura.

Looks like Jetavan beat me to it.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2013, 10:26:41 PM by Nephi » Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #130 on: February 06, 2013, 10:43:02 PM »

Then we have the liberty of conscience to observe the eucharist without another man's permission.

I would actually agree with that statement. But I think the point here is that the Orthodox won't observe it with you (unless you're Orthodox).
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Fr.Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 503


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #131 on: February 06, 2013, 10:55:20 PM »

When is it ok for Orthodox to receive communion, or confession for that matter, from a Catholic priest?

When he wills to make an apostasy.
To ensure I understand you, let’s say a U.S. Army soldier gets an 18 month deployment to Afghanistan and there are no Orthodox priests available, he just suffers the entire 18 months?  No confession, not communion, nothing?

Exactly, and of course.
Logged
Orual
Orthodoxy = 7, not 3
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Sunday Morning Costume Parade
Posts: 951


I'm just here for the food.


« Reply #132 on: February 07, 2013, 12:10:38 AM »

There have also been "discreet" instances of inter-communion between Orthodox and Episcopalians, and Orthodox and Lutherans, and Orthodox and Anglicans, and doubtless other interesting combinations.

However, for an Eastern Orthodox to take communion in a non-Eastern Orthodox church, is apostasy and is a grievous sin. Much better to die IN communion WITHOUT communion, than to die OUT of communion WITH "communion." For then you die outside the Church, which is the Body of Christ. This issue very often came up back in Arianism's heyday.

It is also completely not possible for an Eastern Orthodox priest to give communion to an Oriental Orthodox, or a Roman Catholic, or a Lutheran, or an Anglican, although it certainly happens. Many other "impossible" things do happen from time to time, but private unbelief doesn't erase the dogma, and private conduct doesn't alter the rule.

"Greco-Russian" is how the Eastern Orthodox Church was distinguished from other faith-confessions, back in the day. It just means the faith of the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox, which includes all the other Chalcedonian Orthodox. The modern distinction between "Eastern" Orthodox and "Oriental" Orthodox was very recently promoted and I read some old fuddy-duddy books. Even the distinction between "Roman Catholic" and "Eastern Orthodox" (whether Chalcedonian or anti-Chalcedonian) is of very recent vintage, comparatively. "Greek Catholic" used to mean "Greek Orthodox," etc., etc. So I was speaking in a slightly antique fashion, for no particular reason. 



This is a brilliant and succinct comment that imparts the complete, unvarnished truth.  Thank you, Fr. Aidan.
Logged

He spoke it as kindly and heartily as could be; as if a man dashed a gallon of cold water in your broth and never doubted you'd like it all the better. 

- C.S. Lewis, Till We Have Faces
f.k.a. Matron.a
Fr.Aidan
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Russian Orthodox Church (ROCOR)
Posts: 503


Ds. superbis resistit; humilibus autem dat gratiam


WWW
« Reply #133 on: February 07, 2013, 12:12:46 AM »

Thanks, but I'm a wuss compared to our indomitable forebears. I can pass along their understanding, but fail to live up to them.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2013, 12:13:49 AM by Fr.Aidan » Logged
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,973


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #134 on: February 07, 2013, 01:14:36 AM »

I would hope that, in a hypothetical dire scenario (danger of death), that an EO Priest would administer Sacraments to me.

I hope he wouldn't unless you wanted to be received into the Church.

I'm curious to know what your own priest would do in such a situation.  You know, a Catholic in imminent danger of death requests the Sacraments, including Holy Communion, of him and there's no Catholic priest available--what would he do?

None of the dozen or so Orthodox priests, across several jurisdictions and ethnicities I have known in my 50 or so years in Orthodoxy would give communion to a heterodox under any circumstances, unless that person converted first. They quite rightly take their vow of guarding the chalice very seriously.

How about anointing?  Do you think they would anoint?  Curious here.

Holy Unction is a sacrament. But there are other anointings, like with holy oil from a saint.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.163 seconds with 72 queries.