OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 17, 2014, 08:57:50 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags CHAT Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: How Jewish was Jesus?  (Read 2348 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,905



« Reply #90 on: January 24, 2013, 03:01:45 PM »

Samaritans were not treated as Jews by Jews.

True, but they observed the Torah, worshiped on Mount Garizim instead of Jerusalem, expected the Messiah, rejected the later additions to Hebrew Scriptures (Prophets & Writings). They probably understood themselves as the continuation of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, despite their mixed ethnic origins.

That would pretty much have made them a Jewish sect in the eyes of a foreign observer.
Logged
FlickFlack
Moderated
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern
Posts: 249


Twinkle Twinkle little star


« Reply #91 on: January 24, 2013, 03:53:03 PM »

Were there religious jews of the Torah/the Covenant outside Jewish sects on the time of Jesus? How did they exercised their religion?

All of the Jewish "sects" (Sadducees, Pharisees, Essenes, Samaritans, Zealots) would have understood themselves as 'Jews of the Covenant' and Torah observers.

The ordinary "lay" Palestinian Jew who was not schooled in any of these sects would have:

- listened occasionally to some famous rabbi that came to town, perhaps hoping to see miracles or have some of their problems solved;

- gone out to the desert to see an extraordinary prophet like John the Baptist and perhaps receive his baptism to break up with sin and start a new life;

- made his pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Great Feasts to 'appear before the Lord' at the Temple and bring his sacrifices; if not 3 times every year, as the Torah required of all men of Israel, then at least once or maybe several times in his lifetime;

- attended the local synagogue on Sabbath, where the Torah was read out in Hebrew (which he wouldn't have understood much) and then translated/paraphrased by a meturgeman (interpreter) in his native Aramaic;

- roughly adhered to the prescriptions of Mosaic Law and Jewish customs (circumcision, marriage, death & mourning);

- expected the Messiah to free them from Roman occupation and restore the Kingdom of David to its former glory.

The Pharisees would call them 'am ha'aretz (people of the land/country men/peasants), ignorant in the ways of the Torah, and Jesus took pity on their multitudes and viewed them as "sheep without a shepherd".   

Good informative post.Hmm... The question is was Jesus one of those?
Logged

Right here, right now.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,905



« Reply #92 on: January 24, 2013, 05:30:22 PM »

Good informative post.Hmm... The question is was Jesus one of those?

He wasn't a Sadducee (though his Mother was related to Elizabeth, "one of the daughters of Aaron" who was married to a priest), nor a Pharisee; might have had some connection with the Essenes (through St. John the Baptist who grew up in the wilderness, but it's pure speculation that he himself might have been part of one of their communities); he wasn't a Samaritan (despite being slandered as such by the Pharisees) and he sure wasn't a Zealot seeking to overthrow the Roman government (he payed his taxes).

He would have appeared to be an ordinary Jew (he often disappeared in the midst of a crowd), although most who met or heard him must have realized there was something extra-ordinary about him.  
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 05:36:14 PM by Romaios » Logged
FlickFlack
Moderated
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern
Posts: 249


Twinkle Twinkle little star


« Reply #93 on: January 24, 2013, 06:16:54 PM »

Good informative post.Hmm... The question is was Jesus one of those?

He wasn't a Sadducee (though his Mother was related to Elizabeth, "one of the daughters of Aaron" who was married to a priest), nor a Pharisee; might have had some connection with the Essenes (through St. John the Baptist who grew up in the wilderness, but it's pure speculation that he himself might have been part of one of their communities); he wasn't a Samaritan (despite being slandered as such by the Pharisees) and he sure wasn't a Zealot seeking to overthrow the Roman government (he payed his taxes).

He would have appeared to be an ordinary Jew (he often disappeared in the midst of a crowd), although most who met or heard him must have realized there was something extra-ordinary about him.  

I didn't knew Zacharias was a Sadducee or that only priests were Sadducees.

So He would have been a bit of all?

Did He have any connection to the house of Hillel(Beit Hillel) , the house of Shammai(Beit Shammai) , or other Jewish trains of thought?

What were the circulating trains of thought among the sects of Judaism in the 1st century and what soteriology did they have?

What would have been the trend among Jewish believes?

When were these Jewish sects born/separated in the form of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes,Zealots, Samaritans,etc and what common ground did this sects have on the time of Jesus?

Logged

Right here, right now.
Romaios
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Romanian
Posts: 2,905



« Reply #94 on: January 24, 2013, 07:03:13 PM »

   
I didn't knew Zacharias was a Sadducee or that only priests were Sadducees.

Sadducees claimed to be the descendants of Tsaddoc, the High Priest from the time of David. They were the conservative aristocratic party to whom most of the clergy of the Temple belonged. They believed in the Torah alone and refused later doctrinal developments such as belief in the next world, resurrection of the dead, heaven and the gehenna, angels etc. This made them oppose the Pharisees. Juridical power on religious issues was entrusted to both parties in the Sanhedrin Court.

Zacharias, the father of St. John the Baptist, wasn't necessarily a Sadducee because he was a priest. 

So He would have been a bit of all?

No - he might have incidentally agreed or disagreed with some. For instance he contradicts the Sadducees, agreeing with the Pharisees, that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the living, not of the dead, that there is resurrection, judgement and retribution, the Kingdom and the gehenna.   

Did He have any connection to the house of Hillel(Beit Hillel) , the house of Shammai(Beit Shammai) , or other Jewish trains of thought?

He would have been closer to Hillel (they were more Gentile-friendly, more lax in application of the Law) on some issues, and closer to Shammai on others (divorce, IIRC). There's no proof that he would have had personal contact with either school.

What were the circulating trains of thought among the sects of Judaism in the 1st century and what soteriology did they have?

Couldn't possibly answer that one in a post - probably each believed you had to be one of them to be "on the right path". The Sadducees didn't believe in an after-life, so salvation wouldn't have been much of an issue for them. God would bless you in this life, if you obeyed the Torah, would not punish you for sins if you atoned for them through the prescribed sacrifices - once you died, you disappeared.

Salvation back then would have been more of a collective issue than an individual one: the earthly restoration of the Kingdom of David under the Messiah. The Pirke Avot (a section of the Talmud) begins with the bold assertion that "All Israel will be saved".
 
What would have been the trend among Jewish believes?

Unfortunately, we do not have any statistics to establish the following of each sect.

When were these Jewish sects born/separated in the form of Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes,Zealots, Samaritans,etc and what common ground did this sects have on the time of Jesus?

The split occurred when the land was conquered by the Greeks (312 BC); the Pharisees were the descendants of the "pious" (chassidim) who zealously upheld Jewish traditions and resisted Hellenistic assimilation. The Sadducees and the priestly aristocracy reached some settlement with the foreign rulers, so as to allow Temple worship to go on. The Essenes are supposed to be the followers of a dissident priest (the Teacher of Righteousness) who retired to the desert to establish a spiritual Temple and considered the guys in Jerusalem to be apostates and impostors. The Samaritans were the result of the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom (722 BC) - that would have been the earliest schism in chronological order. Zealots were revolutionary guerillas that appeared under Roman rule.

Common ground? Maybe the Torah, which each sect interpreted differently. The Temple in Jerusalem was frequented by most Jews, with the exception of the Essenes and the Samaritans.       

But all this you could have googled up or read about on Wikipedia. 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 07:19:38 PM by Romaios » Logged
FlickFlack
Moderated
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Eastern
Posts: 249


Twinkle Twinkle little star


« Reply #95 on: January 24, 2013, 08:23:37 PM »

I meant what was the trend of beliefs not "believes" among Jews in general on that time, religiously speaking. What were the general ideas circulating on that time, esspecially from a Messianic perspective? Were they expecting the Messiah to be born on their time? What other Messianic expectations did they had, or Messianic eschatology?
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 08:24:18 PM by FlickFlack » Logged

Right here, right now.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.077 seconds with 34 queries.