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Author Topic: Biblical Inconsistencies  (Read 2416 times) Average Rating: 0
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Theophilos78
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« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2013, 02:05:53 PM »


This idiocy just caught my eye: the answer can be found in John 4:42

Btw, the "contradiction" isn't equal: John merely identifies Jesus as Messiah.  Matthew tells Who Christ is.

Besides, John does not say that Peter believed what his brother Andrew said about Jesus. What is recorded in Matthew is how Peter revealed his faith upon Jesus' question about His identity.
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« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2013, 02:34:36 PM »


How can we trust something to be inspired fom the Holy Spirit and of divine origin if it has "false" and "contradictorial" claims ?

I assume that as an Orthodox Christian you are Chrismated and thereby have the Grace of the Holy Spirit upon you, and you are also of divine origin, made in the image of God, Himself.....and yet you most likely aren't perfect, but, filled with contradictions.  How is that so?

Do we not have the Grace of the Holy Spirit?  ...and even so...we sin.

You are struggling with your beliefs....and looking for "proof" to base your faith on.

There will never be enough proof to convince everyone.  If you look for issues, you will always find them.

I suggest you stop looking at all the controversy, all the inconsistencies, the degree of "Jewishness" of Christ...and instead focus on His message, His teachings, His example.

If someone is filling your head with doubts, I suggest you distance yourself from them, and instead find someone to help you grow closer to the Faith....perhaps a priest, your godparents, etc.

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« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2013, 03:08:11 PM »


How can we trust something to be inspired fom the Holy Spirit and of divine origin if it has "false" and "contradictorial" claims ?

I assume that as an Orthodox Christian you are Chrismated and thereby have the Grace of the Holy Spirit upon you, and you are also of divine origin, made in the image of God, Himself.....and yet you most likely aren't perfect, but, filled with contradictions.  How is that so?

Do we not have the Grace of the Holy Spirit?  ...and even so...we sin.

You are struggling with your beliefs....and looking for "proof" to base your faith on.

There will never be enough proof to convince everyone.  If you look for issues, you will always find them.

I suggest you stop looking at all the controversy, all the inconsistencies, the degree of "Jewishness" of Christ...and instead focus on His message, His teachings, His example.

If someone is filling your head with doubts, I suggest you distance yourself from them, and instead find someone to help you grow closer to the Faith....perhaps a priest, your godparents, etc.



So we should treat the bible as a fallible document?
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« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2013, 03:51:53 PM »

So we should treat the bible as a fallible document?

One shouldn't assume human inerrancy about any book.

The Bible was written by humans.

We believe it contains the Word of God. E.g. the Gospels. All of it is certainly not "the Word of God"  literally like Muslims claim the Qu'ran is, but all of it is inspired by God (theopneustos). What we call 'divine inspiration' is on a totally different level than logic consistency or historical objectivity: a parable can be divinely inspired even if it is mere fiction; so can stories or (intentionally/unintentionally) pseudo-historical accounts. It's not like some evil genius contrived to cheat you into believing what you read and then you'll be a sucker if you fall for it.     

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life:

Quote
Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. And before him no creature is hidden, but all are naked and laid bare to the eyes of the one to whom we must render an account.

Hebrews 4:12-13

Is this self-suggestion, psychological brain-washing, mystification, wishful thinking? Try and see. Otherwise you'll just count the inconsistencies and dismiss it as "OT dubiousness", forever pestering well-meaning forumists with flippant questions and prickly witticisms. There's a fundamental lack of bona fides in your attitude so far.   
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« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2013, 04:25:04 PM »

So we should treat the bible as a fallible document?

Of course.  Only one is infallible, God.  If the Bible is not read in the light of Jesus Christ, the Truth, then the Bible is just a book of myths and fables that could be interpreted to mean anything.  Case in point, all these Bible-only faiths that believe in anything and everything.
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« Reply #50 on: January 23, 2013, 04:29:08 PM »


This is why we are not Sola-Scriptura.

We not only follow the writings in the Bible, but, those of the Church Fathers, etc.

Tradition (capital T) is a major part of Orthodoxy.

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« Reply #51 on: January 23, 2013, 05:15:31 PM »

So we should treat the bible as a fallible document?

Of course.  Only one is infallible, God.  If the Bible is not read in the light of Jesus Christ, the Truth, then the Bible is just a book of myths and fables that could be interpreted to mean anything.  Case in point, all these Bible-only faiths that believe in anything and everything.

In this case I fail to see how the bible is inspired.

Can someone explain in what does the inspiration of the Bible, stand?
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« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2013, 05:47:45 PM »

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.
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« Reply #53 on: January 23, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »

This is taken from 101 Contradictions in the Bible, by Shabir Ally.Yes I know there is a refutation to this circulating online, but I must say it is not very convincing to me.. Can you refute them?


Contradiction #1
Who incited David to count the fighting men of Israel? (a) God did (2 Samuel 24:1) (b) Satan did (1 Chronicles 21:1).

Contradiction #2
In that count how many fighting men were found in Israel? (a) Eight hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9). (b) One million, one hundred thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5).

Contradiction #3
How many fighting men were found in Judah? (a) Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9). (b) Four hundred and seventy thousand (1 Chronicles 21:5).

Contradiction #4
God sent his prophet to threaten David with how many years of famine? (a) Seven (2 Samuel 24:13). (b) Three (1 Chronicles 21:12).

Contradiction #5
How old was Ahaziah when he began to rule over Jerusalem? (a) Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26). (b) Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).

Contradiction #6
How old was Jehoiachin when he became king of Jerusalem? (a) Eighteen (2 Kings 24:Cool. (b) Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9).

Contradiction #7
How long did he rule over Jerusalem? (a) Three months (2 Kings 24:Cool. (b) Three months and ten days (2 Chronicles 36:9).

Contradiction #8
The chief of the mighty men of David lifted up his spear and killed how many men at one time? (a) Eight hundred (2 Samuel 23:Cool. (b) Three hundred (1 Chronicles 11:11).

Contradiction #9
When did David bring the Ark of the Covenant to Jerusalem? Before defeating the Philistines or after? (a) After (2 Samuel 5 and 6). (b) Before (1 Chronicles 13 and 14).

Contradiction #10
How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark? (a) Two (Genesis 6:19, 20). (b) Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8, 9).

Contradiction #11
When David defeated the King of Zobah, how many horsemen did he capture? (a) One thousand and seven hundred (2 Samuel 8:4). (b) Seven thousand (1 Chronicles 18:4).

Contradiction #12
How many stalls for horses did Solomon have? (a) Forty thousand (1 Kings 4:26). (b) Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25).

Contradiction #13
In what year of King Asa's reign did Baasha, King of Israel die? (a) Twenty-sixth year (1 Kings 15:33 - 16:Cool. (b) Still alive in the thirty-sixth year (2 Chronicles 16:1).

Contradiction #14
How many overseers did Solomon appoint for the work of building the temple? (a) Three thousand six hundred (2 Chronicles 2:2) (b) Three thousand three hundred (1 Kings 5:16).

Contradiction #15
Solomon built a facility containing how many baths? (a) Two thousand (1 Kings 7:26). (b) Over three thousand (2 Chronicles 4:5).

Contradiction #16
Of the Israelites who were freed from the Babylonian captivity, how many were the children of Pahrath-Moab? (a) Two thousand eight hundred and twelve (Ezra 2:6). (b) Two thousand eight hundred and eighteen (Nehemiah 7:11).

Contradiction #17
How many were the children of Zattu? (a) Nine hundred and forty-five (Ezra 2:Cool (b) Eight hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:13).

Contradiction #18
How many were the children of Azgad? (a) One thousand two hundred and twenty-two (Ezra 2:12). (b) Two thousand three hundred and twenty-two (Nehemiah 7:17). Contradiction #19
How many were the children of Adin? (a) Four hundred and fifty-four (Ezra 2:15). (b) Six hundred and fifty-five (Nehemiah 7:20).

Contradiction #20
How many were the children of Hashum? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:19). (b) Three hundred and twenty-eight (Nehemiah 7:22).

Contradiction #21
How many were the children of Bethel and Ai? (a) Two hundred and twenty-three (Ezra 2:28). (b) One hundred and twenty-three (Nehemiah 7:32).

Contradiction #22
Ezra 2:64 and Nehemiah 7:66 agree that the total number of the whole assembly was 42,360. Yet the numbers do not add up to anything close. The totals obtained from each book is as follows: (a) 29,818 (Ezra). (b) 31, 089 (Nehemiah).

Contradiction #23
How many singers accompanied the assembly? (a) Two hundred (Ezra 2:65). (b) Two hundred and forty-five (Nehemiah 7:67).

Contradiction #24
What was the name of King Abijah's mother? (a) Michaiah, daughter of Uriel of Gibeah (2 Chronicles 13:2). (b) Maachah, daughter of Absalom (2 Chronicles 11:20). But Absalom had only one daughter whose name was Tamar (2 Samuel 14:27).

Contradiction #25
Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem? (a) Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40). (b) No (Joshua 15:63).

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Contradiction #27
Jesus descended from which son of David? (a) Solomon (Matthew 1:6). (b) Nathan (Luke 3:31).

Contradiction #28
Who was the father of Shealtiel? (a) Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12). (b) Neri (Luke 3:27).

Contradiction #29
Which son of Zerubbabel was an ancestor of Jesus Christ? (a) Abiud (Matthew 1:13). (b) Rhesa (Luke 3:27). But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: I. Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v. Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (1 Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anywhere.

Contradiction #30
Who was the father of Uzziah? (a) Joram (Matthew 1:Cool. (b) Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1).

Contradiction #31
Who as the father of Jechoniah? (a) Josiah (Matthew 1:11). (b) Jehoiakim (1 Chronicles 3:16).

Contradiction #32
How many generations were there from the Babylonian exile until Christ? (a) Matthew says fourteen (Matthew 1:17). (b) But a careful count of the generations reveals only thirteen (see Matthew 1:12-16).

Contradiction #33
Who was the father of Shelah? (a) Cainan (Luke 3:35-36). (b) Arphaxad (Genesis 11:12).

Contradiction #34
Was John the Baptist Elijah who was to come? (a) Yes (Matthew 11:14, 17:10-13). (b) No (John 1:19-21).

Contradiction #35
Would Jesus inherit David's throne? (a) Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32). (b) No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1:11, 1 Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon David's throne (Jeremiah 36:30).

Contradiction #36
Jesus rode into Jerusalem on how many animals? (a) One - a colt (Mark 11:7; cf. Luke 19:35). And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their garments on it; and he sat upon it." (b) Two - a colt and an ass (Matthew 21:7). They brought the ass and the colt and put their garments on them and he sat thereon."

Contradiction #37
How did Simon Peter find out that Jesus was the Christ? (a) By a revelation from heaven (Matthew16:17). (b) His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41).

Contradiction #38
Where did Jesus first meet Simon Peter and Andrew? (a) By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22). (b) On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43).

Contradiction #39
When Jesus met Jairus was Jairus' daughter already dead? (a) Yes. Matthew 9:18 quotes him as saying, "My daughter has just died." (b) No. Mark 5:23 quotes him as saying, "My little daughter is at the point of death."

Contradiction #40
Did Jesus allow his disciples to keep a staff on their journey? (a) Yes (Mark 6:Cool. (b) No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3).

Contradiction #41
Did Herod think that Jesus was John the baptist? (a) Yes (Matthew 14:2; Mark 6:16). (b) No (Luke 9:9)

Contradiction #42
Did John the Baptist recognise Jesus before his baptism? (a) Yes (Matthew 3:13-14). (b) No (John 1:32, 33).

Contradiction #43
Did John the Baptist recognize Jesus after his baptism? (a) Yes (John 1:32, 33). (b) No (Matthew 11:2).

Contradiction #44
According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness? (a) "If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true"(John 5:31). (b) "Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true" (John 8:14).

Contradiction #45
When Jesus entered Jerusalem did he cleanse the temple that same day? (a) Yes (Matthew 21:12). (b) No. He went into the temple and looked around, but since it was very late he did nothing. Instead, he went to Bethany to spend the night and returned the next morning to cleanse the temple (Mark 11:1-17).

Contradiction #46
The Gospels say that Jesus cursed a fig tree. Did the tree wither at once? (a) Yes. (Matthew 21:19). (b) No. It withered overnight (Mark 11:20).

Contradiction #47
Did Judas kiss Jesus? (a) Yes (Matthew 26:48-50). (b) No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12).

Contradiction #48
What did Jesus say about Peter's denial? (a) "The cock will not crow till you have denied me three times" (John 13:38). (b) "Before the cock crows twice you will deny me three times" (Mark 14:30). When the cock crowed once, the three denials were not yet complete (see Mark 14:72). Therefore prediction (a) failed.

Contradiction #49
Did Jesus bear his own cross? (a) Yes (John 19:17). (b) No (Matthew 27:31-32).

Contradiction #50
Did Jesus die before the curtain of the temple was torn? (a) Yes (Matthew 27:50-51; Mark 15:37-38). (b) No. After the curtain was torn, then Jesus crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last (Luke 23:45-46).

Contradiction #51
Did Jesus say anything secretly? (a) No. "I have said nothing secretly" (John 18:20). (b) Yes. "He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything" (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him "Why do you speak to them in parables?" He said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given" (Matthew 13:10-11).

Contradiction #52
Where was Jesus at the sixth hour on the day of the crucifixion? (a) On the cross (Mark 15:23). (b) In Pilate's court (John 19:14).

Contradiction #53
The gospels say that two thieves were crucified along with Jesus. Did both thieves mock Jesus? (a) Yes (Mark 15:32). (b) No. One of them mocked Jesus, the other defended Jesus (Luke 23:43).

Contradiction #54
Did Jesus ascend to Paradise the same day of the crucifixion? (a) Yes. He said to the thief who defended him, "Today you will be with me in Paradise" (Luke 23:43). (b) No. He said to Mary Magdelene two days later, "I have not yet ascended to the Father" (John 20:17).

Contradiction #55
When Paul was on the road to Damascus he saw a light and heard a voice. Did those who were with him hear the voice? (a) Yes (Acts 9:7). (b) No (Acts 22:9).

Contradiction #56
When Paul saw the light he fell to the ground. Did his traveling companions also fall to the ground? (a) Yes (Acts 26:14). (b) No (Acts 9:7).

Contradiction #57
Did the voice spell out on the spot what Paul's duties were to be? (a) Yes (Acts 26:16-18). (b) No. The voice commanded Paul to go into the city of Damascus and there he will be told what he must do. (Acts 9:7; 22:10).

Contradiction #58
When the Israelites dwelt in Shittin they committed adultery with the daughters of Moab. God struck them with a plague. How many people died in that plague? (a) Twenty-four thousand (Numbers 25:1 and 9). (b) Twenty-three thousand (1 Corinthians 10:Cool.

Contradiction #59
How many members of the house of Jacob came to Egypt? (a) Seventy souls (Genesis 46:27). (b) Seventy-five souls (Acts 7:14).

Contradiction #60
What did Judas do with the blood money he received for betraying Jesus? (a) He bought a field (Acts 1:18). (b) He threw all of it into the temple and went away. The priests could not put the blood money into the temple treasury, so they used it to buy a field to bury strangers (Matthew 27:5).

Contradiction #61
How did Judas die? (a) After he threw the money into the temple he went away and hanged himself (Matthew 27:5). (b) After he bought the field with the price of his evil deed he fell headlong and burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out (Acts 1:18).

Contradiction #62
Why is the field called "Field of Blood"? (a) Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:Cool. (b) Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19).

Contradiction #63
Who is a ransom for whom? (a) "The Son of Man came . . . to give his life as a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). " . . . Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all . . . " (1 Timothy 2:5-6). (b) "The wicked is a ransom for the righteous, and the faithless for the upright" (Proverbs 21:18).

Contradiction #64
Is the law of Moses useful? (a) Yes. "All scripture is . . . profitable . . ." (2 Timothy 3:16). (b) No. ". . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness . . . " (Hebrews 7:18).

Contradiction #65
What was the exact wording on the cross? (a) "This is Jesus the King of the Jews" (Matthew 27:37). (b) "The King of the Jews" (Mark 15:26) (c) "This is the King of the Jews" (Luke 23:38). (d) "Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews" (John 19:19).

Contradiction #66
Did Herod want to kill John the Baptist? (a) Yes (Matthew 14:5). (b) No. It was Herodias, the wife of Herod who wanted to kill him. But Herod knew that he was a righteous man and kept him safe (Mark 6:20).

Contradiction #67
Who was the tenth disciple of Jesus in the list of twelve? (a) Thaddaeus (Matthew 10:1-4; Mark 3:13-19). (b) Judas son of James is the corresponding name in Luke's gospel (Luke 6:12-16).

Contradiction #68
Jesus saw a man sitting at the tax collector's office and called him to be his disciple. What was his name? (a) Matthew (Matthew 9:9). (b) Levi (Mark 2:14; Luke 5:27).

Contradiction #69
Was Jesus crucified on the daytime before the Passover meal or the daytime after? (a) After (Mark 14:12-17). (b) Before. Before the feast of the Passover (John 13:1) Judas went out at night (John 13:30). The other disciples thought he was going out to buy supplies to prepare for the Passover meal (John 13:29). When Jesus was arrested, the Jews did not enter Pilate's judgement hall because they wanted to stay clean to eat the Passover (John 18:28). When the judgement was pronounced against Jesus, it was about the sixth hour on the day of Preparation for the Passover (John 19:14).

Contradiction #70
Did Jesus pray to The Father to prevent the crucifixion? (a) Yes. (Matthew 26:39; Mark 14:36; Luke 22:42). (b) No. (John 12:27).

Contradiction #71
In the gospels which say that Jesus prayed to avoid the cross, how many times did he move away from his disciples to pray? (a) Three (Matthew 26:36-46 and Mark 14:32-42). (b) One. No opening is left for another two times. (Luke 22:39-46).

Contradiction #72
Matthew and Mark agree that Jesus went away and prayed three times. What were the words of the second prayer? (a) Mark does not give the words but he says that the words were the same as the first prayer (Mark 14:39). (b) Matthew gives us the words, and we can see that they are not the same as in the first (Matthew 26:42).

Contradiction #73
What did the centurion say when Jesus dies? (a) "Certainly this man was innocent" (Luke 23:47). (b) "Truly this man was the Son of God" (Mark 15:39).

Contradiction #74
When Jesus said "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" in what language did he speak? (a) Hebrew: the words are "Eli, Eli . . . " (Matthew 27:46). (b) Aramaic: the words are "Eloi, Eloi . . . " (Mark 15:34).

Contradiction #75
According to the gospels, what were the last words of Jesus before he died? (a) "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" (Luke 23:46). (b) "It is finished" (John 19:30).

Contradiction #76
When Jesus entered Capernaum he healed the slave of a centurion. Did the centurion come personally to request Jesus for this? (a) Yes (Matthew 8:5). (b) No. He sent some elders of the Jews and his friends (Luke 7:3, 6).

Contradiction #77
(a) Adam was told that if and when he eats the forbidden fruit he would die the same day (Genesis 2:17). (b) Adam ate the fruit and went on to live to a ripe old age of 930 years (Genesis 5:5).

Contradiction #78
(a) God decided that the life-span of humans will be limited to 120 years (Genesis 6:3). (b) Many people born after that lived longer than 120. Arpachshad lived 438 years. His son Shelah lived 433 years. His son Eber lived 464 years, etc. (Genesis 11:12-16).

Contradiction #79
Apart from Jesus did anyone else ascend to heaven? (a) No (John 3:13). (b) Yes. "And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (2 Kings 2:11).

Contradiction #80
Who was high priest when David went into the house of God and ate the consecrated bread? (a) Abiathar (Mark 2:26). (b) Ahimelech, the father of Abiathar (1 Samuel 21:1; 22:20).

Contradiction #81
Was Jesus' body wrapped in spices before burial in accordance with Jewish burial customs? (a) Yes and his female disciples witnessed his burial (John 19:39-40). (b) No. Jesus was simply wrapped in a linen shroud. Then the women bought and prepared spices "so that they may go and anoint him [Jesus]" (Mark 16:1).

Contradiction #82
When did the women buy the spices? (a) After "the sabbath was past" (Mark 16:1). (b) Before the sabbath. The women "prepared spices and ointments." Then, "on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment" (Luke 23:55 to 24:1).

Contradiction #83
At what time of day did the women visit the tomb? (a) "Toward the dawn" (Matthew 28:1). (b) "When the sun had risen" (Mark 16:2).

Contradiction #84
What was the purpose for which the women went to the tomb? (a) To anoint Jesus' body with spices (Mark 16:1;Luke 23:55 to 24:1). (b) To see the tomb. Nothing about spices here (Matthew 28:1). For no specified reason. In this gospel the wrapping with spices had been done before the sabbath (John 20:1).

Contradiction #85
A large stone was placed at the entrance of the tomb. Where was the stone when the women arrived? (a) They saw that the stone was "Rolled back" (Mark 16:4). They found the stone "rolled away from the tomb" (Luke 24:2). They saw that "the stone had been taken away from the tomb" (John 20:1) (b) As the women approached, an angel descended from heaven, rolled away the stone, and conversed with the women. Matthew made the women witness the spectacular rolling away of the stone (Matthew 28:1-6).

Contradiction #86
Did anyone tell the women what happened to Jesus' body? (a) Yes. "A young man in a white robe" (Mark 16:5). "Two men . . . in dazzling apparel" later described as angels (Luke 24:4 and 24:23). An angel - the one who rolled back the stone (Matthew 16:2). In each case the women were told that Jesus had risen from the dead (Matthew 28:7; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:5 footnote). (b) No. Mary met no one and returned saying, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him" (John 20:2).

Contradiction #87
When did Mary Magdelene first meet the resurrected Jesus? And how did she react? (a) Mary and the other women met Jesus on their way back from their first and only visit to the tomb. They took hold of his feet and worshiped him (Matthew 28:9). (b) On her second visit to the tomb Mary met Jesus just outside the tomb. When she saw Jesus she did not recognize him. She mistook him for the gardener. She still thinks that Jesus' body is laid to rest somewhere and she demands to know where. But when Jesus said her name she at once recognized him and called him "Teacher." Jesus said to her, "Do not hold me . . . " (John 20:11 to 17).

Contradiction #88
What was Jesus' instruction for his disciples? (a) "Tell my brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see me" (Matthew 28:10). (b) "Go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God" (John 20:17).

Contradiction #89
When did the disciples return to Galilee? (a) Immediately, because when they saw Jesus in Galilee "some doubted" (Matthew 28:17). This period of uncertainty should not persist. (b) After at least 40 days. That evening the disciples were still in Jerusalem (Luke 24:33). Jesus appeared to them there and told them, "stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high" (Luke 24:49). He was appearing to them "during forty days" (Acts 1:3), and "charged them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise . . . "(Acts 1:4).

Contradiction #90
To whom did the Midianites sell Joseph? (a) "To the Ishmaelites" (Genesis 37:28). (b) "To Potiphar, an officer of Pharoah" (Genesis 37:36).

Contradiction #91
Who brought Joseph to Egypt? (a) The Ishmaelites bought Joseph and then "took Joseph to Egypt" (Genesis 37:28). (b) "The Midianites had sold him in Egypt" (Genesis 37:36). Joseph said to his brothers "I am your brother, Joseph, whom you sold into Egypt" (Genesis 45:4).

Contradiction #92
Does God change his mind? (a) Yes. The word of the Lord came to Samuel: "I repent that I have made Saul King . . ." (1 Samuel 15:10 to 11). (b) No. God "will not lie or repent; for he is not a man, that he should repent" (1 Samuel 15:29). (c) Yes. "And the Lord repented that he had made Saul King over Israel" (1 Samuel 15:35). Notice that the above three quotes are all from the same chapter of the same book! In addition, the Bible shows that God repented on several other occasions: I. The Lord was sorry that he made man" (Genesis 6:6). " I am sorry that I have made them" (Genesis 6:7) ii."And the Lord repented of the evil which he thought to do to his people" (Exodus 32:14) iii.(Lots of other such references).

Contradiction #93
The Bible says that for each miracle Moses and Aaron demonstrated the same by their secret arts. Then comes the following feat: (a) Moses and Aaron converted all the available water into blood (Exodus 7:20-21). (b) The magicians did the same (Exodus 7:22). This is impossible, since there would have been no water left to convert into blood.

Contradiction #94
Who killed Goliath? (a) David (1 Samuel 17:23, 50). (b) Elhanan (2 Samuel 21:19).

Contradiction #95
Who killed Saul? (a) "Saul took his own sword and fell upon it. . . . Thus Saul died... (1 Samuel 31:4-6). (b) An Amalekite slew him (2 Samuel 1:1-16).

Contradiction #96
Does every man sin? (a) Yes. "There is no man who does not sin" (1 Kings 8:46; see also 2 Chronicles 6:36; Proverbs 20:9; Ecclesiastes 7:20; and 1 John 1:8-10). (b) No. True Christians cannot possibly sin, because they are the children of God.

Every one who believes that Jesus is the Christ is a child of God . . (1 John 5:1). "We should be called children of God; and so we are" (1 John 3:1). "He who loves is born of God" (1 John 4:7). "No one born of God commits sin; for God's nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God" (1 John 3:9). But, then again, Yes! "If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" (1 John 1:Cool.

Contradiction #97
Who will bear whose burden? (a) "Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2). (b) "Each man will have to bear his own load" (Galatians 6:5).

Contradiction #98
How many disciples did Jesus appear to after his resurrection? (a) Twelve (1 Corinthians 15:5). (b) Eleven (Matthew 27:3-5 and Acts 1:9-26, see also Matthew 28:16; Mark 16:14 footnote; Luke 24:9; Luke 24:33).

Contradiction #99
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism? (a) After his baptism, "the spirit immediately drove him out into the wilderness. And he was in the wilderness forty days . . . (Mark 1:12-13). (b) Next day after the baptism, Jesus selected two disciples. Second day: Jesus went to Galilee — two more disciples. Third day: Jesus was at a wedding feast in Cana in Galilee (see John 1:35; 1:43; 2:1-11).

Contradiction #100
Was baby Jesus's life threatened in Jerusalem? (a) Yes, so Joseph fled with him to Egypt and stayed there until Herod died (Matthew 2:13 - 23). (b) No. The family fled nowhere. They calmly presented the child at the Jerusalem temple according to the Jewish customs and returned to Galilee (Luke 2:21-40).

Contradiction #101
When Jesus walked on water how did the disciples respond? (a) They worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God" (Matthew 14:33). (b) "They were utterly astounded, for they did not understand about the loaves, but their hearts were hardened" (Mark 6:51-52).


There are others. For example, Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." John 10: 30. But in another place He said that the Father is greater than I? John 14:28
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« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2013, 06:02:28 PM »

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

you should make him an icon Cheesy
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« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2013, 06:32:51 PM »

Wellhausen is your man.
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« Reply #56 on: January 23, 2013, 06:37:57 PM »


This is why we are not Sola-Scriptura.

We not only follow the writings in the Bible, but, those of the Church Fathers, etc.

Tradition (capital T) is a major part of Orthodoxy.



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« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2013, 07:05:25 PM »

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

Woe to me, for I might be a false prophet!  Shocked

Sometimes I wish I could live up to what I happen to write.  Cry

That's pathetic, isn't it?
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« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2013, 07:25:27 PM »

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

you should make him an icon Cheesy
[/quote]

Something like this, surely V

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« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2013, 03:52:42 AM »

Something like this, surely V



He's so cute, I wanna take him home!  laugh laugh
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« Reply #60 on: January 24, 2013, 04:44:01 AM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.
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« Reply #61 on: January 24, 2013, 07:40:45 AM »

Take every book for what it is, if you care to study how it originated. But do not reduce it to the bare literal meaning in its own historical context, if you wish to understand its spiritual relevance as Divine Scripture for the Fathers, the Saints and members of the Church from all ages and all parts of the world.

You can begin to see how it's divinely inspired only if you allow the text to absorb all your world, if you begin to live by the "stories". Only then can you see it both as alive and larger than life...

This is great. I enjoy much of your writing.

Woe to me, for I might be a false prophet!  Shocked

Sometimes I wish I could live up to what I happen to write.  Cry

That's pathetic, isn't it?

If u don't than u r a false prophet Cheesy . I only write what I live or from what I live.
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« Reply #62 on: January 24, 2013, 07:43:02 AM »

Wellhausen is your man.

Can you give some references?
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« Reply #63 on: January 24, 2013, 09:27:58 AM »

Wellhausen is your man.

Can you give some references?
Some references are given here.
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« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2013, 01:52:15 PM »

There are others. For example, Jesus said: "I and the Father are one." John 10: 30. But in another place He said that the Father is greater than I? John 14:28

Then here is another contradiction: Jesus is called the Son of God and the Son of Man.  Roll Eyes

I remember how once a Muslim propagandist said that the attribution of the title "Son of Man" to Jesus was contradictory because Jesus was born of a woman, not a man.  Grin laugh Grin
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« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2013, 01:54:29 PM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

That is not likely. Joseph cannot have had two different genealogies! Everything about these two genealogies is different. It is as if the Evangelists wanted to exclaim that these did not belong to the same person.
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« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2013, 04:07:11 PM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

One theory is that one is regular lineage of Joseph and the other is Levirate lineage of Joseph.  This is possible.  However, another is that Matthew gives Joseph's lineage and Luke gives Theotokos', as St Joachim also bore the name Eli (Heli), just as Thomas was also named Didymus, and numerous other examples.  There is also a third strand of understanding, that both give Theotokos' lineage--St. Luke gives through lineage of St. Joachim-Eli (Heli) and St. Matthew gives lineage through St. Anna (the brother of Jacob).  The middle and latter scenarios provide that the "cursed" line of Soloman and the uncursed line of Nathan are healed and united in the Christ.   The second and third scenarios are just as reasonable as the first, as the lineage given on a mother's side would still have the son-in-law (St. Joseph) listed as son, and this is true whether he is son-in-law by betrothal or by marriage.   
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« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2013, 05:14:13 PM »

If someone else has refuted it, why are you asking us?

Because he does not accept answers.
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« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2013, 10:40:54 PM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

One theory is that one is regular lineage of Joseph and the other is Levirate lineage of Joseph.   

This Is what was believable by the Church Fathers I:e, Eusubeius, Africanus.
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« Reply #69 on: January 24, 2013, 11:06:53 PM »

Most of these are a morph from the old "James Buckner's Tough Questions for the Christian Church".

It was funny it was even linked by the church of satan's web site.

Of course, they never linked the countless answers given to them.  These are apologetics 101.

Flickflack,use google.  Google each question if you really want the answer.

Otherwise you are just trolling wanting a soap box.  Apologetics to these have been around for a long... LONG time.  They give people trying to make a point against Christianity quick "ah ha's".

Google the IF you really want the answers.  type in each question or a derivative of each question, and put "apologetics" after the question.

You'll find your own answers.   Lots and LOTS of apologetics online.  I use to do some apologetics.  Time and time again have I seen people cut/paste large sets of questions like yours.  They never wanted answers, but just wanted to try to "prove" how wrong people were.

Seek and you will find these answers.  I'm not dodging your questions either, nor am I baited to answer or proving points for you by not answering.

It's an old game, and I'm far too old and busy to buy into trollish ah'ha's.
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« Reply #70 on: January 24, 2013, 11:23:48 PM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

One theory is that one is regular lineage of Joseph and the other is Levirate lineage of Joseph.   

This Is what was believable by the Church Fathers I:e, Eusubeius, Africanus.

What was believable "by the Church Fathers" other than Eusebius and Julius Africanus was:

Luke is a Maternal lineage--St. John of Damascus, St. Gregory Palamas
Matthew is a Maternal lineage--Clement of Alexandria, Victorinus
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« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2013, 09:00:56 AM »

A few quick responses from me  Grin

Contradiction #26
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary? (a) Jacob (Matthew 1:16). (b) Heli (Luke 3:23).

Both. The genealogy in Matthew belongs to Joseph whereas the one given by Luke belongs to Mary.

I was explained that Matthews and Lukes genealogy is both of Josephs?.

One theory is that one is regular lineage of Joseph and the other is Levirate lineage of Joseph.   

This Is what was believable by the Church Fathers I:e, Eusubeius, Africanus.

What was believable "by the Church Fathers" other than Eusebius and Julius Africanus was:

Luke is a Maternal lineage--St. John of Damascus, St. Gregory Palamas
Matthew is a Maternal lineage--Clement of Alexandria, Victorinus

Sorry but does that mean that they are both Josephs?.

Does not Jewish law in those days only recognize tribal affiliation through the father?.
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« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2013, 05:04:51 PM »

Really amazing responses here  angel

It seems to me that when people pose questions like this, they have already decided ahead of time that the religion they refer to is wrong. These are not genuine enquiries from an interested person but as has already been said, attempts to "catch out" the faithful. I am not half as learned as the majority of people on this forum so I can only speak from my own personal experience, which is that there are other kinds of knowing beyond logic. Beyond logic, there is spirit and undeniably, even to the athiest, there is for example, physical knowing (ask any woman that has been allowed to give birth naturally, and how her body knows beyond her mind what is to be done). Arguments about facts and perceived inconsistencies are appropriate; it's certainly better than holding onto doubts, but thinking that is somehow the crux of Christianity is missing the much larger point and giving it too much importance.
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« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2013, 05:22:45 PM »


Sorry but does that mean that they are both Josephs?.

Does not Jewish law in those days only recognize tribal affiliation through the father?.

I think maternal means through mother... St John of Damascus may have really believed that St Luke gave the Lord's genealogy through Panaghia.  Smiley
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« Reply #74 on: January 31, 2013, 06:00:05 PM »

Really amazing responses here  angel

It seems to me that when people pose questions like this, they have already decided ahead of time that the religion they refer to is wrong. These are not genuine enquiries from an interested person but as has already been said, attempts to "catch out" the faithful. I am not half as learned as the majority of people on this forum so I can only speak from my own personal experience, which is that there are other kinds of knowing beyond logic. Beyond logic, there is spirit and undeniably, even to the athiest, there is for example, physical knowing (ask any woman that has been allowed to give birth naturally, and how her body knows beyond her mind what is to be done). Arguments about facts and perceived inconsistencies are appropriate; it's certainly better than holding onto doubts, but thinking that is somehow the crux of Christianity is missing the much larger point and giving it too much importance.

Very perceptive of you. Some people are as you describe. However, others are working out their beliefs. Unfortunately, their "prove me I am wrong to question or disbelief xyz" type of aggressive approach rubs folks the wrong way and they consequently do not get the help that they seek.
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« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2013, 06:32:58 PM »

What are some opinions on the contradictions in scripture being on purpose, so we might search deeper?
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« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2013, 06:36:47 PM »

What are some opinions on the contradictions in scripture being on purpose, so we might search deeper?
Which contradiction did you have in mind?
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« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2013, 08:07:39 PM »

What are some opinions on the contradictions in scripture being on purpose, so we might search deeper?
Which contradiction did you have in mind?

I don't know specifically, I just read on another blog that some biblical exegetes like Origin put for the idea that contradictions in scpripture were deliberate and I was wondering if this idea had any weight to it.
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« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2013, 08:17:36 PM »

I think it is possible that there are apparent contradictions, implied or outright stated, though the meaning becomes more clear when you delve into them (or are shown the answer by a wiser person). For instance, Jesus says "He that is not with me is against me" (Matt. 12:30) and also "for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40) Both are true, I guess, properly understood (and applied in varying contexts)...
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« Reply #79 on: February 01, 2013, 07:32:41 AM »

I think it is possible that there are apparent contradictions, implied or outright stated, though the meaning becomes more clear when you delve into them (or are shown the answer by a wiser person). For instance, Jesus says "He that is not with me is against me" (Matt. 12:30) and also "for he that is not against us is for us." (Luke 9:50; Mark 9:40) Both are true, I guess, properly understood (and applied in varying contexts)...
And the Old Testament contradictions are due (according to much modern scholarship) to how the Old Testament was the result of a gradual, centuries-long integration of different Israelite narratives. Thus, the two creation narratives, one of which has animals created before man; the other, animals after man.

So, clearly, the person or persons who finally integrated all these different Israelite narratives (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) did not view these "contradictions" as something to try to minimize, or hide, or eliminate. For him/them, the "contradictions" may have simply been a result of how different humans can view God's presence, action, and love, in the same event (e.g., the event of creation), even if different humans have different ideas of how exactly the event took place.

I also think that the allegorical, etc., approach of Origen, can offer a more contemplative, meditative, approach to these "contradictions" too.
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