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Author Topic: One will or two?  (Read 665 times) Average Rating: 0
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gueranger
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« on: January 15, 2013, 03:11:22 PM »

According to miaphysites, does the one incarnate nature have only one will or two?
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2013, 03:31:11 PM »

According to miaphysites, does the one incarnate nature have only one will or two?

I think we would say that Christ has One Theanthropic Will. In other words, Christ wills both as God and as Man, but that will is One and the Same.
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2013, 03:38:26 PM »

How would you explain these verses about Christ's will/knowledge?

“Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but yours, be done.” Luke 22:42

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. Matthew 24:36


Is the "Theanthropic" will different from the Father's will? Do these verses imply that the second person of the Trinity has a will and a knowledge that are different from the Father's?   

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“Hold firmly that your faith is identical to that of the ancients, deny this and you dissolve the unity of the Church.” -St. Thomas Aquinas

http://www.amazon.com/His-Broken-Body-Understanding-Catholic/dp/0615183611

http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-banished-heart-9780567442208/
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 04:49:32 PM »

Our Lord saw all of His creation suffering under death, and grieved and was sore afflicted for all of what He was seeing, past, present, and future.  He partook of the human fear of death, on behalf of all, that by this He may take away all fear.

He speaks on behalf of all human nature that the day and hour of the second coming no one needs to know, even though He can and does know.

In the end, we say, "the Incarnate Word willed also to submit Himself to the measure of human nature, by being supposed to suffer what belongs to it." (St. Cyril, Sermon CXLVI on the Gospel of Luke)

Therefore, the will of Christ is the will of the Father.  They are all one, just as the saints of the Church have one will with the Father through Christ by the Holy Spirit.  The "oneness" of will need not be a scandal.  Oneness is what we are called to through Christ.  If Christ was not One, how can there be unity?

If you want a scientific examination of what this "oneness" entails, sure, we do not lose our nature, neither does Christ abolish His human nature.  We say the Incarnate Logos can will humanly and can will divinely, and yet He wills both in a unified fashion in accordance with the will of the Father. 

When we walks on water, He uses human feet to reveal divine powers.  He did not use divinity alone, for divinity has no feet to walk on water, neither does He use humanity alone, for human flesh has can easily break the surface tension of [turbulent] waters.  It is an One Incarnate Nature of Logos, and One Incarnate Will of the Logos.  He humanizes the divine will that our will may be divinized.  He has one will that our will may be one with God. 

Therefore, it is this part we stress.  People like St. Maximus the Confessor will stress the integrity of humanity and divinity, to show that if it wasn't for Christ being human, we wouldn't be saved, and so everything that is part of human nature must be preserved, except si  (and indeed, we agree, for if this must be a unity, there must first be an unconfused diversity).  In what we stress, we also believe it is important to protect the integrity of the human nature fully except sin, and we go further, by saying that there is a purpose, and that purpose is Oneness.  Therefore we can say that Christ in His humanity did not only experience death, but through His divinity conquered death by death, and rose from the death, with His humanity.  One incarnate nature, God the Logos Himself, died on the Cross and rose from the dead, destroying death.

So back to your verses.  God feared that man may no longer fear.  God does not reveal the second coming, that man may obtain true knowledge of righteousness, only the knowledge that we need, that suffices for our salvation and enlightenment.  God wills to be under the limitations of the economy of the flesh that we may receive something divine in return in accordance with what we can handle.  This is why we say Christ has one nature and one will.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 05:01:16 PM by minasoliman » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 07:43:32 PM »

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. Matthew 24:36

[Mark 13:32 But of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father.]
 
Now why it was that, though He knew, He did not tell His disciples plainly at that time, no one may be curious where He has been silent; for ‘Who hath known the mind of the Lord, or who hath been His counsellor?’ but why, though He knew, He said, ‘no, not the Son knows,’ this I think none of the faithful is ignorant, viz. that He made this as those other declarations as man by reason of the flesh. For this as before is not the Word’s deficiency, but of that human nature whose property it is to be ignorant. And this again will be well seen by honestly examining into the occasion, when and to whom the Saviour spoke thus. Not then when the heaven was made by Him, nor when He was with the Father Himself, the Word ‘disposing all things,’ nor before He became man did He say it, but when ‘the Word became flesh.’ On this account it is reasonable to ascribe to His manhood everything which, after He became man, He speaks humanly. For it is proper to the Word to know what was made, nor be ignorant either of the beginning or of the end of these (for the works are His), and He knows how many things He wrought, and the limit of their consistence. And knowing of each the beginning and the end, He knows surely the general and common end of all. Certainly when He says in the Gospel concerning Himself in His human character, ‘Father, the hour is come, glorify Thy Son,’ it is plain that He knows also the hour of the end of all things, as the Word, though as man He is ignorant of it, for ignorance is proper to man, and especially ignorance of these things. Moreover this is proper to the Saviour’s love of man; for since He was made man, He is not ashamed, because of the flesh which is ignorant, to say ‘I know not,’ that He may shew that knowing as God, He is but ignorant according to the flesh. And therefore He said not, ‘no, not the Son of God knows,’ lest the Godhead should seem ignorant, but simply, ‘no, not the Son,’ that the ignorance might be the Son’s as born from among men.
- Pope St Athanasius of Alexandria, Against the Arians, Ch 28:43
Source: http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf204.xxi.ii.iv.vi.html
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 07:44:21 PM by zekarja » Logged

minasoliman
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2013, 03:10:34 PM »

Just wanted to add some more sources.  Here's another thread that discusses Miatheletism:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,25645.msg404085.html#msg404085

And here is a blog from Mystagogy that discusses Mark 13:32 and Matthew 24:36:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2011/05/was-jesus-ignorant-of-time-of-his.html

God bless.
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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
minasoliman
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Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2013, 03:35:44 PM »

A couple more threads:

This one is contentious with debates, but it talks about how to interpret the knowledge Christ had:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40542.0.html

This thread also:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,40693.45.html

Finally, another thread on Miatheletism:
http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,27788.0.html
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Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
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