psalm110
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Orthodox Christian
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« on: January 16, 2013, 08:37:00 AM » |
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Hi all,
Wondering which sea Moses parted ? The red sea as we know it today or the Reed sea ?
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elephant
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 09:49:43 AM » |
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Dear psalm110,
Here's what the hymns of the Church say:
Crossing the waters as on dry land, In that way escaping From the evils of Egypt's land, The Israelites cried out exclaiming: To our Redeemer and God, now let us sing.
Israel treaded on the sea's swelling billow, which had been rendered once again into dry land. Then the dark waters concealed all the Egyptian riders together, as a tomb laid in water, by the mighty strength of the right of the Master.
Once did the sun look down upon the surface of the dry abysm-bearing plain; for the water like a wall on either side was congealed, for a people walking crossed the sea, making God appealing melody. Sing to the Lord for He has been gloriously glorified.
Regardless how we spell it, the Egyptians drowned.
Love, elephant
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 12:41:13 PM » |
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Elephant, the question pertains to which sea, not how one sea is spelled.
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"Simply put, if you’re not willing to take what is dearest to you, whether plans or people, and kiss it goodbye, you can’t be my disciple." |
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mike
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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 12:43:23 PM » |
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Is that important in any way?
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orthonorm
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« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 02:36:32 PM » |
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Is that important in any way?
I knew a brilliant and authentic fundie who had an hilarious (to me) way of handling this very question. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 02:36:55 PM by orthonorm »
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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 05:09:39 PM » |
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Is that important in any way?
It's somewhat interesting, as it would mean that the "sea" was a swamplike area rather than the Red Sea. |
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"Simply put, if you’re not willing to take what is dearest to you, whether plans or people, and kiss it goodbye, you can’t be my disciple." |
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biro
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 07:20:26 PM » |
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You'd trust the fundamentalists over at World Net?  |
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Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. http://spcasuncoast.org/ |
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LBK
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« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 09:26:02 PM » |
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Hi all,
Wondering which sea Moses parted ? The red sea as we know it today or the Reed sea ?
The name in the Greek LXX for the Red Sea is ᾿Ερυθρὰ Θάλασσα Erythra Thalassa (literally, Red Sea). Any talk of "reed sea" is simply nonsense. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 09:26:22 PM by LBK »
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Gamliel
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« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 09:36:41 PM » |
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The Hebrew is, "Yam Suph," Sea of Reeds." Of course, identifying it is still a problem.
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 09:37:00 PM by Gamliel »
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Jetavan
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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 09:44:10 PM » |
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Hi all,
Wondering which sea Moses parted ? The red sea as we know it today or the Reed sea ?
Probably the Reed Sea. The Red Sea is not really on the Exodus route.  |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 09:46:07 PM by Jetavan »
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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pmpn8rGPT
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Proof that Russia won the Space Race.
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« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 10:00:09 PM » |
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I still maintain that Yam Suph is the Red Sea as the LXX says (I don't know Greek so I'll have to take LBK's word on that  ) |
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"Tomorrow, I shall no longer be here."
-Nostradamus's last words.
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psalm110
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« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 10:03:18 PM » |
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^^ I've read the crossin of the Red Sea is a mistranslation and should of been Reed Sea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_SuphThe Reed Sea would of had alot more volume of water during the Exodus compared today it's been 5000 years since the Exodus. Roughly where is the Sea of Reeds in today's map ? |
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Jetavan
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« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 10:03:57 PM » |
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I still maintain that Yam Suph is the Red Sea as the LXX says (I don't know Greek so I'll have to take LBK's word on that ) Technically, one could make the argument that the Yam Suph includes all the waters connected to what is recognized in the modern world as the "Red Sea": the Red Sea, Gulf of Suez, Gulf of Aqaba, and the chain of lakes and watery marshes between the Gulf of Suez and the Mediterranean. |
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Logged
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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Jetavan
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« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 10:07:58 PM » |
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^^ I've read the crossin of the Red Sea is a mistranslation and should of been Reed Sea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_SuphThe Reed Sea would of had alot more volume of water during the Exodus compared today it's been 5000 years since the Exodus. Roughly where is the Sea of Reeds in today's map ? It would be the stretch of watery entities (including the Bitter Lakes, etc.) running north-to-south from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean.  |
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Logged
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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LBK
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« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2013, 10:13:16 PM » |
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I still maintain that Yam Suph is the Red Sea as the LXX says (I don't know Greek so I'll have to take LBK's word on that ) The word erythros (red) has come into the English language, including as part of several medical terms. Think of erythrocyte (red blood cell), and erythropoietin, the hormone which is fundamental for the production of red blood cells. Erythropoietin has become widely-known in recent years as EPO, the banned performance-enhancing substance used by all too many athletes and cyclists. |
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sheenj
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« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 10:24:05 PM » |
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Hi all,
Wondering which sea Moses parted ? The red sea as we know it today or the Reed sea ?
The name in the Greek LXX for the Red Sea is ᾿Ερυθρὰ Θάλασσα Erythra Thalassa (literally, Red Sea). Any talk of "reed sea" is simply nonsense. I think the real question is what did the "Red Sea" refer to back then. Did it refer to just the sea as it's defined today? Did it also include the modern day "Gulf of Suez"? For all I know, it might even have included some of the various watery bodies that dot the area between the Gulf of Suez and the Mediterranean. Edit: I quoted the wrong post at first. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 10:35:52 PM by sheenj »
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psalm110
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« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2013, 10:29:07 PM » |
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Exodus 13-15. These proposals would mean that Yam Suph is better translated in these passages as Sea of Reeds or Sea of Seaweed; see Egyptian reed fields, also described as the ka of the Nile Delta. In I Kings 9:26 "yam suph" is translated as Sea of Reeds at Eilat on the Gulf of Eilat.
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 10:57:47 PM by psalm110 »
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sheenj
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2013, 10:34:29 PM » |
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I still maintain that Yam Suph is the Red Sea as the LXX says (I don't know Greek so I'll have to take LBK's word on that ) The word erythros (red) has come into the English language, including as part of several medical terms. Think of erythrocyte (red blood cell), and erythropoietin, the hormone which is fundamental for the production of red blood cells. Erythropoietin has become widely-known in recent years as EPO, the banned performance-enhancing substance used by all too many athletes and cyclists. Also the country Eritrea's name comes from the Greek root erythros as well. I think it means Red Land. |
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psalm110
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2013, 11:05:28 PM » |
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The Hebrew is, "Yam Suph," Sea of Reeds." Of course, identifying it is still a problem.
Yam Suph in the LXX is translated as Red Sea ? Is this a mistranslation of the Biblical Hebrew into Greek ?. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 11:07:39 PM by psalm110 »
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LBK
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2013, 11:07:25 PM » |
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The Hebrew is, "Yam Suph," Sea of Reeds." Of course, identifying it is still a problem.
Yam Suph in the LXX is translated as Red Sea ? Yes, it is. See posts #8 and #15. |
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orthonorm
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« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2013, 11:19:36 PM » |
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The Reed Sea would of had alot more volume of water during the Exodus compared today it's been 5000 years since the Exodus.
Roughly where is the Sea of Reeds in today's map ?
We are all clear that the "Exodus" didn't take place in any "real" sense. If you are saying that at the time of the legend that Reed Sea had more water, I guess I'll take your word for it. |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 11:20:17 PM by orthonorm »
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Ignorance is not a lack, but a passion.
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NicholasMyra
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« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2013, 11:32:28 PM » |
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How unimaginative!
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.
"Simply put, if you’re not willing to take what is dearest to you, whether plans or people, and kiss it goodbye, you can’t be my disciple." |
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psalm110
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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2013, 12:34:54 AM » |
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The Reed Sea would of had alot more volume of water during the Exodus compared today it's been 5000 years since the Exodus.
Roughly where is the Sea of Reeds in today's map ?
We are all clear that the "Exodus" didn't take place in any "real" sense. If you are saying that at the time of the legend that Reed Sea had more water, I guess I'll take your word for it. So the Story of the Exodus is not real and not be taken literally ?. It's highly possible that area would of had a lot more water 5000 years ago, I.e Euphrates river does not have the same volume it did 2000 years ago, humans are using it up. The Suez Canal constructed in the 18th century would of caused water to follow a lot more quicker into the red sea. The environment throughout the world is changing either naturally or unnaturally by humans shifting land and rivers/lakes. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_Lake - I watched a documentary sometime ago of the Red Sea drying up. |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2013, 12:35:52 AM » |
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The Hebrew is, "Yam Suph," Sea of Reeds." Of course, identifying it is still a problem.
Yam Suph in the LXX is translated as Red Sea ? Is this a mistranslation of the Biblical Hebrew into Greek ?. The translators knew both Hebrew and Greek. Also, the Septuagint texts are older than the Hebrew that we have, AFAIK. Anyway, this question goes in the same category as what one person asked St. Augustine: "What was God doing before He made the world?" "Making hell for people who asked such questions," St. Augustine replied. |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2013, 12:36:45 AM » |
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The Reed Sea would of had alot more volume of water during the Exodus compared today it's been 5000 years since the Exodus.
Roughly where is the Sea of Reeds in today's map ?
We are all clear that the "Exodus" didn't take place in any "real" sense. If you are saying that at the time of the legend that Reed Sea had more water, I guess I'll take your word for it. So the Story of the Exodus is not real and not be taken literally ?. It's highly possible that area would of had a lot more water 5000 years ago, I.e Euphrates river does not have the same volume it did 2000 years ago, humans are using it up. The Suez Canal constructed in the 18th century would of caused water to follow a lot more quicker into the red sea. The environment throughout the world is changing either naturally or unnaturally by humans shifting land and rivers/lakes. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_Lake - I watched a documentary sometime ago of the Red Sea drying up. Just smile, nod, and move on. |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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psalm110
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« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2013, 01:10:40 AM » |
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Just smile, nod, and move on.
Geez your nice, I hope someone says the same thing to you when you need a question answered. |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2013, 01:15:01 AM » |
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Just smile, nod, and move on.
Geez your nice, I hope someone says the same thing to you when you need a question answered. I was referring to your first question after orthonorm's post. It is not always beneficial for us to have all our questions answered. |
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If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
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