Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, say RCC priests

[Romaios]

Here I am talking of things I have seen over the last 6 years or so; you create scenarios.

Even if you knew for a fact that someone was received to communion after having slept with a person of the same sex, without showing any sign of repentance and the priest was fully aware as well (this going on for years), that doesn't prove any case for homosexuality being legit/acceptable in the Orthodox Church.

You cannot deduce what things should be like from what things are actually like. Practice conforms (or fails to conform) to ethics, not the other way around.

 

[augustin717]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

[Romaios]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

It depends on what sort of ethics one buys into.

For secular-humanist ethics, man (youthful passions and all included) is the measure of all things. Man changes.

For Christians, Christ (the God-Man) is the measure of all things. They claim he is 'the same yesterday and today and forever' (Heb. 13, 8 ).

[orthonorm]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

I swear I am leaving this board in a minute, but I wanted to say that I think rather than ethics, we should be describing such "rules" or as you say "what's legit" as morals.

These proscriptions certainly change.

But more interesting and a reason for the change in morals is a changing ethos or ethics. Here the Church is simply not hermetically sealed away from the world but is conditioned by it as it conditions the greater world.

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

Ciao!

[ialmisry]

I'm somehow at a loss when trying to associate people at pride parades with the widow, the orphan and the stranger/immigrant.

Of course many are filthy bourgeois. But that's because they are exploiters, not because they are gay. A great many other are homeless being kicked out from their homes. I see them everyday as I live in Boystown. Also know some.

Well, the best the Church (individual Christians) could do for them is to give them shelter and maybe try to reconcile them with their families, not bless a civil partnership or marry them off to some sugar daddy. 

What makes you think it's a sugar daddy they are looking for?
BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships. Now, were it not for the many "write the bishop" types around here I would be less vague.

Oh?  Which bishop do you fear?  None here that I know of.

[ialmisry]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

I swear I am leaving this board in a minute, but I wanted to say that I think rather than ethics, we should be describing such "rules" or as you say "what's legit" as morals.

These proscriptions certainly change.

But more interesting and a reason for the change in morals is a changing ethos or ethics. Here the Church is simply not hermetically sealed away from the world but is conditioned by it as it conditions the greater world.

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

Ciao!

Is Romaios Amerodox?

[ialmisry]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

The wide gate to the Workers' Paradise. Quite a monument to the change in ethics.

[ialmisry]

Sarcozy is a reactionary. He lost.

It was just announced that he and the new model wife (not to be confused with a model new wife) are also leaving for London, rather than face his successor's policies in revenue.

[ialmisry]

Hey Prof,

Is the Danube Canal a metaphor for anal sex?

No. At least not with me.  Though it does go to the Black Sea.

[augustin717]

I'm somehow at a loss when trying to associate people at pride parades with the widow, the orphan and the stranger/immigrant.

Of course many are filthy bourgeois. But that's because they are exploiters, not because they are gay. A great many other are homeless being kicked out from their homes. I see them everyday as I live in Boystown. Also know some.

Well, the best the Church (individual Christians) could do for them is to give them shelter and maybe try to reconcile them with their families, not bless a civil partnership or marry them off to some sugar daddy. 

What makes you think it's a sugar daddy they are looking for?
BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships. Now, were it not for the many "write the bishop" types around here I would be less vague.

Oh?  Which bishop do you fear?  None here that I know of.

I don't fear any- and for that matter don't ask any clergy directions for life either and never have- but I won't give you names. I hate delators and spies.

[ialmisry]

Thank God we joined the EU! Now we can order home-made "Orthodox" Calendars with hunky-horny "priests" and "seminarians"!  

Well, that's small beer.

I don't even know why they are pretending to have a public debate and give the Church a say in it. To give it an appearance of democracy, probably. I wonder what a referendum would make of the 'pomo soup' in Orthodox/Eastern European countries.

Who knows? But I'm sure gays wouldn't be the only minority targeted. It's always easy to find scapegoats in minorities.

Indeed

Building the Canal of the Dead (Canalul Mortii)

The bourgeoisie is probably the one and only minority worth scapegoating 'cause in their case it's true.

So scapegoating is bad, except if augustine envies the target.  Got ya.

Talk about a rapid change in ethics, in so short a time.

[ialmisry]

I'm somehow at a loss when trying to associate people at pride parades with the widow, the orphan and the stranger/immigrant.

Of course many are filthy bourgeois. But that's because they are exploiters, not because they are gay. A great many other are homeless being kicked out from their homes. I see them everyday as I live in Boystown. Also know some.

Well, the best the Church (individual Christians) could do for them is to give them shelter and maybe try to reconcile them with their families, not bless a civil partnership or marry them off to some sugar daddy. 

What makes you think it's a sugar daddy they are looking for?
BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships. Now, were it not for the many "write the bishop" types around here I would be less vague.

Oh?  Which bishop do you fear?  None here that I know of.

I don't fear any- and for that matter don't ask any clergy directions for life either and never have- but I won't give you names. I hate delators and spies.

how else does your workers' paradise work?

If it is not public knowledge, then your contention that "the Greek Churches around here" are "quite ok with domestic partnerships" is false, as they do not know.  And if you need spies and informants to find out public knowledge, well, that rather comments on your knowledge of the subject.

[augustin717]

You ain't as cunning as the fox that made the raven sing

[ialmisry]

You ain't as cunning as the fox that made the raven sing

What fox?  I only hear a dog barking at the moon.

[augustin717]

It's a French fable. Repubs. Wouldn't have heard of it

[ialmisry]

It's a French fable. Repubs. Wouldn't have heard of it

You can read it in Arabic, and could before French existed


It's Greek in origin, numbered 124 by Perry, who catalogued Aesop's fables.  Perry taught classics here in IL, back when it was the Republican heartland (it is the state which produced Ronald Reagan).  Btw, it's called a crow in English (we call it a raven too in Arabic).

Wrong yet again, augustine.

[augustin717]

You r a smart guy. Next time I see you you'll get a beer from me

[Shiny]

Hey Prof,

Is the Danube Canal a metaphor for anal sex?

No. At least not with me.  Though it does go to the Black Sea.

LMBO!

[William]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

[augustin717]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

quote tags fixed. -S1389

[ialmisry]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

[augustin717]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

Not really. In my region and elsewhere is pretty normal. They would certainly laugh at you if you did prostrations for one thing.
Take my neighbor for instance, a truly colorful woman that I will ever remember. She got quite churchy when she was old. That doesn't mean though that she got interested in things most people on this board associate with Orthodoxy. But she took to going to church quite often, "giving akathists" for family and enemies ( it wasn't like she desired them good), continued to swear as colorfully as ever.  There is something deeply human and humane about people like these.

[Maria]

"rarely attempted with tigers."

Unless you want to be inside the belly of a tiger!

Speaking of tigers, we have cougars, bobcats, bears, and coyotes who come roaming into our backyard.
Stay clear of them if you value your life.

Yesterday, we found a dead possum with a deep bite to his neck. Care to guess who killed it?
We quickly disposed of it in the garbage before the predator came back for lunch.

[ialmisry]

"rarely attempted with tigers."

Unless you want to be inside the belly of a tiger!

Speaking of tigers, we have cougars, bobcats, bears, and coyotes who come roaming into our backyard.
Stay clear of them if you value your life.

We have them too, in Chicago even!  I remember when they caught the mountain lion in the neighborhood where my ex wife works (!), I said "mountain lions?  We don't have any mountains!  Where are we going to put our mountain lions!?!

[Maria]

"rarely attempted with tigers."

Unless you want to be inside the belly of a tiger!

Speaking of tigers, we have cougars, bobcats, bears, and coyotes who come roaming into our backyard.
Stay clear of them if you value your life.

We have them too, in Chicago even!  I remember when they caught the mountain lion in the neighborhood where my ex wife works (!), I said "mountain lions?  We don't have any mountains!  Where are we going to put our mountain lions!?!

If you have deer, rabbits, coyotes, or pets, then mountain lions will have plenty of their favorite food.

[mike]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

Not really. In my region and elsewhere is pretty normal. They would certainly laugh at you if you did prostrations for one thing.
Take my neighbor for instance, a truly colorful woman that I will ever remember. She got quite churchy when she was old. That doesn't mean though that she got interested in things most people on this board associate with Orthodoxy. But she took to going to church quite often, "giving akathists" for family and enemies ( it wasn't like she desired them good), continued to swear as colorfully as ever.  There is something deeply human and humane about people like these.

Reminded me about a roaming story here about one women threatening another one that she knows an elder in Ukraine that can celebrate very powerful molebyens for "screwed life".

[Maria]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

Not really. In my region and elsewhere is pretty normal. They would certainly laugh at you if you did prostrations for one thing.
Take my neighbor for instance, a truly colorful woman that I will ever remember. She got quite churchy when she was old. That doesn't mean though that she got interested in things most people on this board associate with Orthodoxy. But she took to going to church quite often, "giving akathists" for family and enemies ( it wasn't like she desired them good), continued to swear as colorfully as ever.  There is something deeply human and humane about people like these.

Reminded me about a roaming story here about one women threatening another one that she knows an elder in Ukraine that can celebrate very powerful molebyens for "screwed life".

Ah, if only St. Seraphim of Sarov were still alive. However, he is still powerful among us and can effect a powerful heavenly cure for those who are addicted to alcohol, sex, or drugs.
People have received visits and/or dreams from St. Seraphim that have changed their lives.

[mike]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

Not really. In my region and elsewhere is pretty normal. They would certainly laugh at you if you did prostrations for one thing.
Take my neighbor for instance, a truly colorful woman that I will ever remember. She got quite churchy when she was old. That doesn't mean though that she got interested in things most people on this board associate with Orthodoxy. But she took to going to church quite often, "giving akathists" for family and enemies ( it wasn't like she desired them good), continued to swear as colorfully as ever.  There is something deeply human and humane about people like these.

Reminded me about a roaming story here about one women threatening another one that she knows an elder in Ukraine that can celebrate very powerful molebyens for "screwed life".

Ah, if only St. Seraphim of Sarov were still alive. However, he is still powerful among us and can effect a powerful heavenly cure for those who are addicted to alcohol, sex, or drugs.
People have received visits and/or dreams from St. Seraphim that have changed their lives.

I'm not sure you understood me correctly. That elder is supposedly famous for making molebyens that screw lives of other people, not un-screw them.

[Maria]

Maybe I'll get back to that other post, it takes this up in different language, but what you bother people with the most around here isn't the morals or behaviors of Grandpa Vlad, but of the ethos you suggest in which much of Orthodoxy lies is nearly contrary to the ethos of most of the board members and likely most Amerodox on a whole.

It's mostly the insistence or implication that that particular ethos is more legit than that of "Amerodox" and old country "churchy people" (to use one of augustin's terms).

Even if they are homophobic if pushed -those orthofolks that I truly like are still anywhere from pretty to extremely relaxed when it comes to churchy stuff;

a rather small and strictly defined group I'd imagine, chosen for said desired result.

Not really. In my region and elsewhere is pretty normal. They would certainly laugh at you if you did prostrations for one thing.
Take my neighbor for instance, a truly colorful woman that I will ever remember. She got quite churchy when she was old. That doesn't mean though that she got interested in things most people on this board associate with Orthodoxy. But she took to going to church quite often, "giving akathists" for family and enemies ( it wasn't like she desired them good), continued to swear as colorfully as ever.  There is something deeply human and humane about people like these.

Reminded me about a roaming story here about one women threatening another one that she knows an elder in Ukraine that can celebrate very powerful molebyens for "screwed life".

Ah, if only St. Seraphim of Sarov were still alive. However, he is still powerful among us and can effect a powerful heavenly cure for those who are addicted to alcohol, sex, or drugs.
People have received visits and/or dreams from St. Seraphim that have changed their lives.

I'm not sure you understood me correctly. That elder is supposedly famous for making molebyens that screw lives of other people, not un-screw them.

For shame. The both of you. That "screwed up" elder is under delusion.

[Romaios]

Ah, if only St. Seraphim of Sarov were still alive. However, he is still powerful among us and can effect a powerful heavenly cure for those who are addicted to alcohol, sex, or drugs.
People have received visits and/or dreams from St. Seraphim that have changed their lives.

I'm not sure you understood me correctly. That elder is supposedly famous for making molebyens that screw lives of other people, not un-screw them.

"The turn of the screw"...   

[Maria]

Ah, if only St. Seraphim of Sarov were still alive. However, he is still powerful among us and can effect a powerful heavenly cure for those who are addicted to alcohol, sex, or drugs.
People have received visits and/or dreams from St. Seraphim that have changed their lives.

I'm not sure you understood me correctly. That elder is supposedly famous for making molebyens that screw lives of other people, not un-screw them.

"The turn of the screw"...    :laugh

Especially if St. Seraphim were to appear to that screwed up elder.
Oh what a shock that would be.

[Kerdy]

88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>

If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I haven't written any of these. I only suppose Talilot is more knowledgeable than you about modern Judaism and its practices or teachings.

You mean throwing tomatoes and eggs at gay pride attendants?

They use firecrackers, smoke bombs and stones here.

Just speculating here, but maybe they shouldn’t make a spectacle of themselves and be “proud” in the same way the rest of the world is proud.  This does not suggest what people do in anger is ok, but if they didn’t prance up and down the public roadways, they wouldn’t make themselves a target for this sort of stuff.  I don’t know anyone else who holds pride parades.

I will speculate that they probably wouldn't be proudly marching in the first place if homosexuals hadn't been oppressed, shunned, bullied, reviled, correctively raped, and/or stoned to death throughout history.

Racial and gender equality movements also involved displays of public pride following years of oppression and injustice. Such is progress.

Or the other side of the pendulum swing.  I don’t fully understand why people don’t learn from history and instead of react in the opposite way in the same “in your face’ way, just balance it out and leave it alone.  Two wrongs don’t make a right.

(But two Wrights do make an airplane)
 

[Kerdy]

88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>

If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I haven't written any of these. I only suppose Talilot is more knowledgeable than you about modern Judaism and its practices or teachings.

You mean throwing tomatoes and eggs at gay pride attendants?

They use firecrackers, smoke bombs and stones here.

Just speculating here, but maybe they shouldn’t make a spectacle of themselves and be “proud” in the same way the rest of the world is proud.  This does not suggest what people do in anger is ok, but if they didn’t prance up and down the public roadways, they wouldn’t make themselves a target for this sort of stuff.  I don’t know anyone else who holds pride parades.

Neonazis do.

I stand corrected.

[Kerdy]

because the people are more uniformly homophobic

 

Yep, all those homophobes out there.

[Kerdy]

What makes you think it's a sugar daddy they are looking for?

They do.  I realize it’s a difficult concept to accept, but some of us actually do listen and interact with homosexuals enough to know what they do, when they do it, and why they do it, which in turn helps confirm what we are saying. 

Of course, this doesn’t apply to ALL homosexuals, but to the majority (overwhelmingly) it does apply.  Some of us even get inside scoop from the few homosexuals who can’t stand the way other homosexuals act (always looking for sex, drugs, new partners, sugar daddy, etc. instead of looking for “real” relationships).  We are not ignorant.

[Kerdy]

What's unacknowledged by many is that ethics themselves ('what's legit") have changed and continue to change over time.

According to who?  The world?  This is no different than my children saying they can stay up past their bedtime.  No matter what they say, they are still wrong.  Just because the world says something is different, in no way makes it other than what God has provided.

[Kerdy]

BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships.

I don’t know of any Greek clergy ok with homosexual relationships.  BTW - how many titles are we going to come up with to describe homosexuality?

[ialmisry]

BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships.

I don’t know of any Greek clergy ok with homosexual relationships.  BTW - how many titles are we going to come up with to describe homosexuality?

as many as it takes, evidently.  Spades don't like being called that.

btw, you were quoting augustin.

Just for context-in IL "domestic partnership" is not just restricted to gays.  You can put that legal veneer on shacking up as well, which I find an even bigger abomination against marriage.

[ialmisry]

88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>

If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I haven't written any of these. I only suppose Talilot is more knowledgeable than you about modern Judaism and its practices or teachings.

You mean throwing tomatoes and eggs at gay pride attendants?

They use firecrackers, smoke bombs and stones here.

Just speculating here, but maybe they shouldn’t make a spectacle of themselves and be “proud” in the same way the rest of the world is proud.  This does not suggest what people do in anger is ok, but if they didn’t prance up and down the public roadways, they wouldn’t make themselves a target for this sort of stuff.  I don’t know anyone else who holds pride parades.

I will speculate that they probably wouldn't be proudly marching in the first place if homosexuals hadn't been oppressed, shunned, bullied, reviled, correctively raped, and/or stoned to death throughout history.

Racial and gender equality movements also involved displays of public pride following years of oppression and injustice. Such is progress.

For those who don't know what the organization stands for, I don't know if this is a real expression of public pride, or a parody (it's clean on the surface enough, but still disturbing.  At least for those of us who haven't "progressed" to the embrace of debauchery):
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/rave-if-you-believe-in-one-nation-under-god/question-3158557/?page=38&link=ibaf&q=&imgurl=https://twg2a.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nambla.jpg

[stavros_388]

88Devin12 teaching a Jew about "true" modern Judaism.

<popcorn>

If you're an Orthodox Christian, you have to agree that all of modern Judaism and Jews aren't God's chosen people and are not "Jews" or "Israel", those attributes belong to the Orthodox Church.

Also, even compared to Judaism of the time of Christ, yes, most of modern Judaism is fake and pretend.

You cannot be an Orthodox Christian and believe the Jews are still God's chosen people and are still Jews.

I haven't written any of these. I only suppose Talilot is more knowledgeable than you about modern Judaism and its practices or teachings.

You mean throwing tomatoes and eggs at gay pride attendants?

They use firecrackers, smoke bombs and stones here.

Just speculating here, but maybe they shouldn’t make a spectacle of themselves and be “proud” in the same way the rest of the world is proud.  This does not suggest what people do in anger is ok, but if they didn’t prance up and down the public roadways, they wouldn’t make themselves a target for this sort of stuff.  I don’t know anyone else who holds pride parades.

I will speculate that they probably wouldn't be proudly marching in the first place if homosexuals hadn't been oppressed, shunned, bullied, reviled, correctively raped, and/or stoned to death throughout history.

Racial and gender equality movements also involved displays of public pride following years of oppression and injustice. Such is progress.

For those who don't know what the organization stands for, I don't know if this is a real expression of public pride, or a parody (it's clean on the surface enough, but still disturbing.  At least for those of us who haven't "progressed" to the embrace of debauchery):
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/rave-if-you-believe-in-one-nation-under-god/question-3158557/?page=38&link=ibaf&q=&imgurl=https://twg2a.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/nambla.jpg

Must be parody. Anyway, we all know that man and little boy love is much, much different than consenting adults having relationships. But nice try!

[Kerdy]

BTW the Greek churches around here-a couple of them at least- are quite ok with domestic partnerships.

I don’t know of any Greek clergy ok with homosexual relationships.  BTW - how many titles are we going to come up with to describe homosexuality?

as many as it takes, evidently.  Spades don't like being called that.

btw, you were quoting augustin.

Just for context-in IL "domestic partnership" is not just restricted to gays.  You can put that legal veneer on shacking up as well, which I find an even bigger abomination against marriage.

My apologies for the misquote.

[Kerdy]

Must be parody. Anyway, we all know that man and little boy love is much, much different than consenting adults having relationships. But nice try!

Perhaps you could explain, in a Christian way, not secular, how they are different.  Secular we all understand, but "biblically" (for lack of a better word), how is it any different than the other? 

Before you reply, I ask you to consider all of the arguments made in favor of homosexuality (they have always been here and doing this, etc.) and ask if the same arguments can be made for child molestation (well, the Greeks and Romans did it, etc.).  I say it is no different.  All are sexual sins are perversions and performed by sexual deviants, to include adultery and fornication, for which many of us at one time have fallen into this category.  The only way to shed the stain of this fact is to take up a godly walk, resist the sin, and BE a Christian rather than go through the motions.  Sin is sin, wrong is wrong, evil is evil…period.  I understand each person must battle with their own sins, but battle they must.  I sometimes wonder if the “thorn in the side” was not a sexual, fleshly desire, thus producing the statement men are better off without a woman (unmarried). 

NAMBLA (and its “sister” organization) is a very real and very dangerous organization taking the same steps of the homosexual organizations and using the same arguments.  If society remains unchecked, they also will gain normality in society.  I have been around long enough to remember when people said the same things about homosexuality and were assured of how we were overreacting and it would never get to where it is today.  It is a slow progression.  Even now we have a television show with multiple wives.  Step, by teensy step, they march toward their end goal.  Are we really so blind as not to see this?  The advocates pull at the emotions and heart strings, pleading the case of the down trodden and rejected, but ignored is the fact these same people will speak out against the Charismatics and their emotional cults revealing emotions are not true Christianity. 

I will stop here and step down from my soap box.  The current human condition saddens be greatly.  Those who appease and advocate for sin are held in high regard.  Those who rally against this are deemed haters.  I will never understand.

[ialmisry]

Must be parody. Anyway, we all know that man and little boy love is much, much different than consenting adults having relationships. But nice try!

Evidently "we all" don't know that.  There was just a conference of sorts of psychologists meeting on whether to remove pedophilia,oops! "minor attraction" from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-V).  We know who blazed that trail.

But nice try to slip your redefinition of choice by!

Of course, the issue stands on the insistence of your protected perversion to not only drop our stones rather than cast them on their pride parade, but their insistence that we must embrace and celebrate it as "normal."

Adultery is consenting adults having relationships.  Society celebrating that

pushed us down this slope to the abyss.

[stavros_388]

Must be parody. Anyway, we all know that man and little boy love is much, much different than consenting adults having relationships. But nice try!

Perhaps you could explain, in a Christian way, not secular, how they are different.  Secular we all understand, but "biblically" (for lack of a better word), how is it any different than the other? 

Before you reply, I ask you to consider all of the arguments made in favor of homosexuality (they have always been here and doing this, etc.) and ask if the same arguments can be made for child molestation (well, the Greeks and Romans did it, etc.).  I say it is no different.  All are sexual sins are perversions and performed by sexual deviants, to include adultery and fornication, for which many of us at one time have fallen into this category.  The only way to shed the stain of this fact is to take up a godly walk, resist the sin, and BE a Christian rather than go through the motions.  Sin is sin, wrong is wrong, evil is evil…period.  I understand each person must battle with their own sins, but battle they must.  I sometimes wonder if the “thorn in the side” was not a sexual, fleshly desire, thus producing the statement men are better off without a woman (unmarried). 

NAMBLA (and its “sister” organization) is a very real and very dangerous organization taking the same steps of the homosexual organizations and using the same arguments.  If society remains unchecked, they also will gain normality in society.  I have been around long enough to remember when people said the same things about homosexuality and were assured of how we were overreacting and it would never get to where it is today.  It is a slow progression.  Even now we have a television show with multiple wives.  Step, by teensy step, they march toward their end goal.  Are we really so blind as not to see this?  The advocates pull at the emotions and heart strings, pleading the case of the down trodden and rejected, but ignored is the fact these same people will speak out against the Charismatics and their emotional cults revealing emotions are not true Christianity. 

I will stop here and step down from my soap box.  The current human condition saddens be greatly.  Those who appease and advocate for sin are held in high regard.  Those who rally against this are deemed haters.  I will never understand.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:1-18

Are you sure you want to bring the Bible into the sphere of secular human rights?

Before you reply, I ask you to consider all of the arguments made in favor of homosexuality (they have always been here and doing this, etc.) and ask if the same arguments can be made for child molestation (well, the Greeks and Romans did it, etc.).  I say it is no different.

Many of the arguments may look similar, depending on one's bias. Many of the arguments for gay rights also resemble those used in the abolishment of slavery and the fight for women's rights. There is a very obvious difference which I fail to understand how people overlook. Homosexuality involves consenting adults. The other (pedophilia) involves sex with minors. Minors are protected by law. Minors are deemed to be too underdeveloped to make informed decisions regarding sex, and rightfully so! Thankfully, our secular laws (unlike Mosaic laws) prevent children from being victimized. You can call this strictly secular, or even unbiblical, if you want to, but I much prefer this to laws that would make kids available to pedophiles.

What else needs to be explained? The vast majority of homosexuals probably do not believe that they are being sinful whatsoever for seeking out companionship with another consenting adult in a way that feels natural to them. I hear again and again here about how we need these "deviants" to know how we feel about them. They DO know. Just look at the statistics of homosexual teen suicides. Familial and societal rejection is nothing new to these people.

[ialmisry]

Must be parody. Anyway, we all know that man and little boy love is much, much different than consenting adults having relationships. But nice try!

Perhaps you could explain, in a Christian way, not secular, how they are different.  Secular we all understand, but "biblically" (for lack of a better word), how is it any different than the other?  

Before you reply, I ask you to consider all of the arguments made in favor of homosexuality (they have always been here and doing this, etc.) and ask if the same arguments can be made for child molestation (well, the Greeks and Romans did it, etc.).  I say it is no different.  All are sexual sins are perversions and performed by sexual deviants, to include adultery and fornication, for which many of us at one time have fallen into this category.  The only way to shed the stain of this fact is to take up a godly walk, resist the sin, and BE a Christian rather than go through the motions.  Sin is sin, wrong is wrong, evil is evil…period.  I understand each person must battle with their own sins, but battle they must.  I sometimes wonder if the “thorn in the side” was not a sexual, fleshly desire, thus producing the statement men are better off without a woman (unmarried).  

NAMBLA (and its “sister” organization) is a very real and very dangerous organization taking the same steps of the homosexual organizations and using the same arguments.  If society remains unchecked, they also will gain normality in society.  I have been around long enough to remember when people said the same things about homosexuality and were assured of how we were overreacting and it would never get to where it is today.  It is a slow progression.  Even now we have a television show with multiple wives.  Step, by teensy step, they march toward their end goal.  Are we really so blind as not to see this?  The advocates pull at the emotions and heart strings, pleading the case of the down trodden and rejected, but ignored is the fact these same people will speak out against the Charismatics and their emotional cults revealing emotions are not true Christianity.  

I will stop here and step down from my soap box.  The current human condition saddens be greatly.  Those who appease and advocate for sin are held in high regard.  Those who rally against this are deemed haters.  I will never understand.

"Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:1-18

Are you sure you want to bring the Bible into the sphere of secular human rights?

Yep.

"Thou shalt not kill." Exodus 20:13.

Just have no interest in secularists' interpretation of the Bible.

Before you reply, I ask you to consider all of the arguments made in favor of homosexuality (they have always been here and doing this, etc.) and ask if the same arguments can be made for child molestation (well, the Greeks and Romans did it, etc.).  I say it is no different.

Many of the arguments may look similar, depending on one's bias. Many of the arguments for gay rights also resemble those used in the abolishment of slavery and the fight for women's rights. There is a very obvious difference which I fail to understand how people overlook.

because you are overlooking your bias.

Homosexuality involves consenting adults.

So did slavery-one could sell oneself into that estate.  So can women's rights-a lot of women voted for the Islamic Republic in Iran, for instance.  Female genital mutilation is overwhelming done and insisted on by other women.

Of course, you assume consent makes a difference, and that the attainment of majority/emancipation makes a difference.  A fan of Armin Meiwes the Rottenberg cannibal, I see.

The other (pedophilia) involves sex with minors.

Yes. And?

Minors are protected by law.

change the law.  that's what a lot of your Pride Parades demand.

btw, they are not all that well protected by the law.

Minors are deemed to be too underdeveloped to make informed decisions regarding sex, and rightfully so!

That's your story.

Homosexuality was once deemed a mental illness according to the DSM.

Thankfully, our secular laws (unlike Mosaic laws) prevent children from being victimized.

I take it you have no experience with the juvenile justice system, and divorce court.  Even SCOTUS called it as it is: a "kangaroo court."

You can call this strictly secular, or even unbiblical, if you want to, but I much prefer this to laws that would make kids available to pedophiles.

Still doesn't tell us why we should adopt your bias, let alone justify it.

What else needs to be explained?

Evidently everything.  You seem to think we should accept it because you said it.

The vast majority of homosexuals probably do not believe that they are being sinful

the vast majority of sinners don't.  Many collaborators with the Third Reich thought themselves as pure as the driven snow.  I'd guess that would include Ernst Röhm, the only one in Nazi Germany allowed to address Hitler as "Adolf."

whatsoever for seeking out companionship with another consenting adult in a way that feels natural to them.

how about what is natural, rather than what "feels natural."  Otherwise, we will have the likes of Meiwes preparing the menu, more than already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mFte51aAds
Dutch celebrity mutual cannibalism.

I hear again and again here about how we need these "deviants" to know how we feel about them. They DO know. Just look at the statistics of homosexual teen suicides.

the politically doctored ones?

Familial and societal rejection is nothing new to these people.

if one decides to embrace and celebrate what family and society reject-let alone God-what does one expect?

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