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Author Topic: What in particular do you like about Coptic christianity?  (Read 3135 times) Average Rating: 0
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Slotte
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« on: June 27, 2004, 10:43:18 PM »

There is one Coptic-Orthodox church 165 km from where I live, but I haven't had time to visit it yet.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2004, 10:55:20 PM »

I like the sense of primitive Christianity, the chant, the priority of fasting, and the use of a traditional Calendar.

anastasios
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2004, 10:59:25 PM »

I've only had chance to visit a Coptic church a few times, but the following things I like:

-Icons. I love the Coptic style of iconography, and actually think it superior to many Eastern Orthodox icons; it's simpler and cleaner, and seems to have an innocence about it.
-Coptic chant is also very good, and I love the sound of it. Along with this are the complex rhythms played on the cymbals.
-They really aren't stingy with the incense. By the end of the raising of incense, it's difficult to see the sanctuary.
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2004, 11:00:36 PM »

Their fount of austere monasticism, naturally.
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Slotte
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2004, 11:35:31 PM »

How is the building different from Eastern Orthodox churches?
How is the sermon?
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Antonious Nikolas
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2004, 09:26:24 AM »

What I love about the Coptic Orthodox Church is the sense of otherworldliness, like you are transported to the Heavenly Liturgy around the Throne of God each time you attend.  Also, the tradition of martyrdom and asceticism.  There has never been a period in the history of the Coptic Church where she has not been persecuted, and yet she thrives.  This is a miracle of God.  How can such a Church even exist given the present situation in Egypt?  Also, I love the friendliness of the people, and the true holiness you see in some of the monastic fathers.  They are truly living saints.  To be near to them is a joy.  Most of all, I love knowing and feeling assured that what I receive in the Coptic Orthodox Church is truly the Holy Body and Precious Blood of Our Lord, God, and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

The sermon is pretty much the same as in the EO Churches I have attended.  It is given right after the Gospel reading, and usually derives from that reading.  The building is also similar in layout, with an iconostasis, etc., but the Coptic Church has a very unique design.  Some pictures can be seen on coptichymns.net.

In XC,

Nick
« Last Edit: July 24, 2004, 12:11:42 PM by Antonious Nikolas » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2004, 11:50:34 AM »

I have had but small experience of Coptic Christianity, so this should be borne in mind when reading the following. My direct experience included meeting Bishop Bishoi, Iris el Masri and reading her beautiful history, The Copts; as well as accompanying some Coptic friends to church. I also met an Ethopian woman at Church too, who made an impact on me. My belief is that there are significant and unresolved differences between us, which we cannot hide from.

That said, what did I find. First, probably felt far more at home than I ever would in a Catholic, Anglican or protestant setting. The ascetic qualities struck a cord. Unlike another contributor I was not so at home with the icons. Iris el Masri and her book were truly something. Such a fine and articulate embassador. Pope Shenouda's recent address to Anglican clergy on the subject of 'homosexuality' made a distinct impression for its clarity, pastoral integrity and the courage of the deliverer - despite the length. Familiar yet different about sums it up.
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2004, 08:48:12 PM »

+º+å+º +º+¡+¿ +º+ä+ä+¦+¬ +º+ä+¦+¦+¿+è+¬ +ü+è +º+ä+ä+è+¬+ê+¦+¼+è+¬
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2004, 08:57:43 PM »

+º+ä+¦+¦+¿+è+¬ +ç+è +¼+Ã +è+ä+¬ +ê +º+ä+â+¿+¬+è+¬ +º+è+¦+º +ê +ä+â+Ã¥+ç+º +Ã +½+ä +º+ä+è+ê+Ã¥+º+Ã¥+è+¬ +ê +º+ä +â+¡+º+Ã¥ +è+¡+¿ +º+Ã¥ +º+¬+â+ä+Ã  +ä+Ã +»+¬ +++ê+è+ä+¬

+º+ä+å+º+¦ +ç+å+º+â +ä+++è+ü +¼+»+º +ê +º+ü+¦+ä +º+ä +º+è+â+ê+å+º+¬ +º+ä+â+¿+¬+è+¬ +º+â+½+¦ +à +å +º+ä+è+ê+å+º+å+è+¬ +º+ê +ç+ä+¦+ê+¦+è+¬
[/b]
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2004, 09:35:47 PM »

+º+å+º +º+¡+¿ +º+ä+ä+¦+¬ +º+ä+¦+¦+¿+è+¬ +ü+è +º+ä+ä+è+¬+ê+¦+¼+è+¬

+ú+Ã +º +ü+è +Ã¥+++¦+è +ü+Ñ+Ã¥ +º+ä+¦+ª +º+ä+Ã +Ã +è+¦ +¦+Ã¥+» +º+ä+ú+é+¿+º++ +ç+ê +º+Ã¥+ç+Ã  +è+¦+¬+«+»+Ã +ê+Ã¥ +½+ä+º+½ +ä+¦+º+¬ +ü+è +º+ä+é+»+º+¦.  

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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2004, 09:49:48 PM »

+º+ä+¦+¦+¿+è+¬ +ç+è +¼+Ã +è+ä+¬ +ê +º+ä+â+¿+¬+è+¬ +º+è+¦+º +ê +ä+â+Ã¥+ç+º +Ã +½+ä +º+ä+è+ê+Ã¥+º+Ã¥+è+¬ +ê +º+ä +â+¡+º+Ã¥ +è+¡+¿ +º+Ã¥ +º+¬+â+ä+Ã  +ä+Ã +»+¬ +++ê+è+ä+¬

+º+ä+å+º+¦ +ç+å+º+â +ä+++è+ü +¼+»+º +ê +º+ü+¦+ä +º+ä +º+è+â+ê+å+º+¬ +º+ä+â+¿+¬+è+¬ +º+â+½+¦ +à +å +º+ä+è+ê+å+º+å+è+¬ +º+ê +ç+ä+¦+ê+¦+è+¬
[/b]

I'm partial to the Greek style of iconography, young padawan, but yes, the Copts tend to be very cheerful, hospitable individuals, and that either explains or is explained by the fact that the figures in Coptic icons even appear more cheerful than our stern-faced Pantocrators.

Not bad, ya shatir, but continue practising in order to further improve and refine those sentences.

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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2004, 11:27:40 PM »

+¦+â+¦+º +è+º +º+¦+¬+º+¦ +º+¦+¦+ü +º+å+º +¿+¡+º+¼+¬ +º+ä+º +º+»+¦+¦ +â+½+è+¦+º +ê +â+å+¬ +º+¦+è+» +º+å +º+¦+¦+ü +º+¦+º +º+è +º+¡+» +¦+ä+ë +º+ä+¦+¿+ê+¦+¬ +¦+¦+ü +º+ä+¦+¦+º+¿+è+¬ +º+è+¦+º +ê +º+å+º +º+¦+ü +¿+¦+¿+¿ +º+ä+à +¦+º+â+ä +à +¦ +ä+¦+¬+è +¦+º+¦+¿+¡ +ü+è +º+ä+à +¦+¬+é+¿+ä +º+ë+¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç

The grammar is pretty challenging!  They grade you on reading, listening and speaking, but not really on writing much.  Reading is by far the easiest, because you can digest it.  Listening gets hard if you're working outside of Modern Standard Arabic, and I won't even get into speaking.  Most of the time we talk to each other, so who knows how terribly we butcher things =)

As for the iconography, there's just something very solid and comprehensive about it, as far as the Coptic style is concerned.  Of course, I've only been to one Coptic Church, only a few times (my professors' priest actually lives in San Jose or something like that, so he's only here maybe once or twice a month).  I agree on the Greek style, though, I like it a lot, especially the ones with the gold paint behind them.  

Fortunately (for me) their liturgy is on Saturday because they're a mission, so I can go take in the Coptic/Arabic liturgy, wrack my brain trying to digest Egyptian dialect when talking to parishioners, and then go to Liturgy on Sunday with my wife at our OCA parish up north.

It's too bad, because you can't really talk much about religion at all at school.  It's quite the taboo, since there are many different people walking around the halls.  Anyway, thanks for the grammar lesson.  I'll keep working on it.
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2004, 11:29:50 PM »

Whoops!  I meant to say "s'ahsbah afdal fil mustuqbal" not "s'ahsbah fil mustuqbal"!
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SamB
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« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2004, 12:46:59 AM »

+¦+â+¦+º +è+º +º+¦+¬+º+¦ +º+¦+¦+ü +º+å+º +¿+¡+º+¼+¬ +º+ä+º +º+»+¦+¦ +â+½+è+¦+º +ê +â+å+¬ +º+¦+è+» +º+å +º+¦+¦+ü +º+¦+º +º+è +º+¡+» +¦+ä+ë +º+ä+¦+¿+ê+¦+¬ +¦+¦+ü +º+ä+¦+¦+º+¿+è+¬ +º+è+¦+º +ê +º+å+º +º+¦+ü +¿+¦+¿+¿ +º+ä+à +¦+º+â+ä +à +¦ +ä+¦+¬+è +¦+º+¦+¿+¡ +ü+è +º+ä+à +¦+¬+é+¿+ä +º+ë+¦+º+í +º+ä+ä+ç

La tit'as'saf.  Minil wadeh in'nak talib mujtahid.  I don't exaggerate when I say that I consider it a privilege and pleasure whenever I come across non-Arabic speakers who have reached as far as I see you have in the study of the language.  I'm only sorry I am unable to offer my personal help with some free additional lessons to reinforce your grasp of whatever material you are being officially taught.

You'll do well, I'm sure.  It takes persistence, and remember this is classical Arabic.(Technically, a distinction is made between M.S.A. and older Fushah, but M.S.A. alone is at a noticeable distance from the vernacular.)  It is not easy to develop a command of this form of the language.  These days, even some Arabs forget how to write properly.

Quote
The grammar is pretty challenging!
 

The conjugations must have you sweating. Smiley

This is why much of the grammar is stripped in the vernacular.  Many of the pronouns, as well as certain consonants, disappear in common speech.  In fact, retaining a certain letter may divulge your religious affiliation.  Where I come from, if you constantly pronounce the 'qaf', you are either a Durzi or an Allawite.

Quote
They grade you on reading, listening and speaking, but not really on writing much.  Reading is by far the easiest, because you can digest it.  Listening gets hard if you're working outside of Modern Standard Arabic,


Don't try it or rather don't overdose on it unless you are exceptionally good. (I know one excellent student who was able to couple listening sessions at home [using audio tapes that trained one to memorise phrases in the Levantine dialects] with her formal studies of M.S.A.)  Unlike many languages, Arabic's written form and Arabic speech are much too far apart to be taken together at once without getting your wires crossed and letting confusion set in.  As you learn M.S.A., don't entertain thoughts about speaking within social, undiplomatic contexts, until you are ready to move on to that area of study, which should be handled without reference to text and is of course less formal and requires the aid of practical experience through verbal interaction with an Arabic environment.  Should you ever take up learning to speak the colloquial, I suggest you pursue the Levantine dialects: Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, and Palestinian.

Quote
and I won't even get into speaking.  Most of the time we talk to each other, so who knows how terribly we butcher things =)

The student I mentioned demonstrated a sharp mind when studying Arabic grammar, but her biggest difficulty was with pronouncing the more challenging consonants, particularly +é and +¡.  Phonetics is tricky business, and it happens to be my favourite area of linguistics.  

Quote
As for the iconography, there's just something very solid and comprehensive about it, as far as the Coptic style is concerned.  Of course, I've only been to one Coptic Church, only a few times (my professors' priest actually lives in San Jose or something like that, so he's only here maybe once or twice a month).  I agree on the Greek style, though, I like it a lot, especially the ones with the gold paint behind them.
 

Regardless of the style, I am always intrigued by the look of very old icons, and you'll find many of those in our churches.

Quote
Fortunately (for me) their liturgy is on Saturday because they're a mission, so I can go take in the Coptic/Arabic liturgy, wrack my brain trying to digest Egyptian dialect when talking to parishioners, and then go to Liturgy on Sunday with my wife at our OCA parish up north.

Ei da?  Masri?  It's a unique one ya raagil.

Quote
It's too bad, because you can't really talk much about religion at all at school.  It's quite the taboo, since there are many different people walking around the halls.  Anyway, thanks for the grammar lesson.  I'll keep working on it.

One word of advice.  Listen to some oldies Arabic music.  Music is an excellent tool with which to provide assistance for any language student.  It's the second best language aid to being there amongst the people.  Helps with phonetics as well.

In IC XC
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paul2004
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2004, 06:03:57 PM »

What I like most about the Coptic Christianity is the priority they give to unity in one Orthodox faith. They accepted the distinct identity of Ethiopian and Eritrean Churches and allowed these churches to grow freely, but existing in unity of one confession of faith. This unity is what I like the most, and it is an example to all Churches.

Peace

Paul
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2013, 12:40:09 PM »

I have never seen any coptic church. But I would love to some day.
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