Author Topic: Growing up  (Read 2511 times)

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Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Growing up
« on: January 11, 2013, 02:44:05 AM »
Hello all,

Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20.  As an age group, many of our posts from different points in time are much different from each other, and even contradictory.  I remember being the annoyingly zealous 15 year old, who turned into an apathetic agnostic-type person who made mountains out of molehills, and now I'm something else all together.  If you go back and compare a post of mine from one year ago to a post from one month ago, someone who didn't know better would think that they were from different posters.

I wonder if those seasoned (not old...) members could chime in and share some experience and advice for those of us who are still figuring out who we are and what's going on.  I find that many of us, myself included, are just kids trying to sound like experienced adults, and making fools of ourselves in the process.  :laugh:

Offline JamesR

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 03:22:49 AM »
As a seasoned adult with 16 years worth of life experience behind me, I could say, don't EVER apostatize--no matter how difficult the faith gets. One thing I've learned from my mood swings and doubts is that sometimes the answer to a question is not a simple sentence, but has to be experienced and acquired through faithfulness. When you apostatize, you won't get it. But when you stay faithful--as miserable as it is, I mean let's face it, Orthodoxy is a miserable religion--you will at least usually get your answer in the end.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2013, 03:36:22 AM »
One thing I've learned as I've got older is to just have patience with things. Not that I'm super patient or anything, but a lot of times rushing into things you can do more harm than good. Don't be afraid to hold off a while, analyze the situation, come up with a plan, etc. The first thing that occurs to you might not be the best course of action. The other thing is being willing to yield or bend: you don't always have to be right. So someone cut you off in traffic or something, so what? Just go on with your day. Don't let other people get to you.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2013, 03:48:14 AM »
Stop constructing a self-narrative already!   ;)
Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

http://hyperdoxherman.tumblr.com/

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2013, 03:49:47 AM »
Stop constructing a self-narrative already!   ;)
Noted.  ;D

Offline William

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2013, 08:32:02 AM »
Well I'm pretty much still a mean hyperdox Herman like I was two years ago.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2013, 12:09:18 PM »
Think for yourself, but don't think that you are infallible. I espoused a bunch of nonsense when I was younger, and believed that I believed them. In fact, I told my mother a few years ago that I was issuing a blanket retraction for everything I said from about age 16-25.
Also consider your actions carefully - some mistakes/choices can never been undone, the damage can never be repaired. Trust me, the bitterness of regret, when you know it's absolutely your own fault that you hurt yourself and other people, and nothing can change it, is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. You can resolve to be a better person and even, through prayer, the sacramental life, asceticism and acts of charity, become one, but you can't change your past.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2013, 03:28:10 PM »
My hair has shortened a bit, I'm turning politically from Liberal to Conservative and asthetically from hipster to dandy. I guess someone could call that as growing up.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 03:28:26 PM by Alpo »
The user should probably be sleeping by now.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2013, 04:15:36 PM »
My hair has shortened a bit, I'm turning politically from Liberal to Conservative and asthetically from hipster to dandy. I guess someone could call that as growing up.
I think it's in a way better to kick it off as a total reactionary and then move on to the left. It's more lasting than the other way around.As for hipsters vs dandies I think they are equally silly. The problem with "liberalism" is it has not much theoretical grounding so it's more like a phase/throwing a tantrum etc .

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2013, 04:25:41 PM »
I think it's in a way better to kick it off as a total reactionary and then move on to the left. It's more lasting than the other way around.As for hipsters vs dandies I think they are equally silly. The problem with "liberalism" is it has not much theoretical grounding so it's more like a phase/throwing a tantrum etc .

Stop constructing a self-narrative already!   ;)

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2013, 04:27:45 PM »
I think it's in a way better to kick it off as a total reactionary and then move on to the left. It's more lasting than the other way around.As for hipsters vs dandies I think they are equally silly. The problem with "liberalism" is it has not much theoretical grounding so it's more like a phase/throwing a tantrum etc .

Stop constructing a self-narrative already!   ;)
we all do, it's a post-modern delusion to think you can avoid that. but i forgot that the holy elders occasionally imply this religion of ours is an antidote to meta-narratives etc.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:29:59 PM by augustin717 »

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 04:29:13 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2013, 04:32:56 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:33:44 PM by augustin717 »

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 04:35:44 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.

Whereas I believe that Stalin was able to overcome his class and a seminary education to become a tyrant and mass murderer? No wonder he's considered admirable.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 04:36:15 PM »
I think it's in a way better to kick it off as a total reactionary and then move on to the left. It's more lasting than the other way around.As for hipsters vs dandies I think they are equally silly. The problem with "liberalism" is it has not much theoretical grounding so it's more like a phase/throwing a tantrum etc .

Stop constructing a self-narrative already!   ;)
we all do, it's a post-modern delusion to think you can avoid that.

Now it's "theoretically grounded"!

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2013, 04:37:52 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.

Whereas I believe that Stalin was able to overcome his class and a seminary education to become a tyrant and mass murderer? No wonder he's considered admirable.
Churchill and Stalin made similar numbers of victims. Churchill mostly did the job in India. And became a Knight of of the British empire for it.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 04:39:15 PM by augustin717 »

Offline biro

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2013, 04:47:49 PM »
Churchill conquered India?

Offline biro

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2013, 04:49:25 PM »
Hello all,

Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20.  As an age group, many of our posts from different points in time are much different from each other, and even contradictory.  I remember being the annoyingly zealous 15 year old, who turned into an apathetic agnostic-type person who made mountains out of molehills, and now I'm something else all together.  If you go back and compare a post of mine from one year ago to a post from one month ago, someone who didn't know better would think that they were from different posters.

I wonder if those seasoned (not old...) members could chime in and share some experience and advice for those of us who are still figuring out who we are and what's going on.  I find that many of us, myself included, are just kids trying to sound like experienced adults, and making fools of ourselves in the process.  :laugh:

What is this 'growing up' of which you speak?

Offline JamesR

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2013, 04:50:58 PM »
Churchill was an overweight racist who hated Indian people, referred to them as "dogs" and smoked his brains out.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2013, 04:51:47 PM »
this religion of ours

How would one interpret this? Is it self-irony, leftist anti-religious zeal, condescending mockery, mature disenchantment?

Offline biro

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2013, 04:52:56 PM »
Churchill was an overweight racist who hated Indian people, referred to them as "dogs" and smoked his brains out.

I doubt it.

Also, that wasn't the question.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2013, 04:54:07 PM »
Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20. 

There're only 4 of us here IIRC. You, William, JamesR and me.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

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Offline Alpo

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2013, 05:03:33 PM »
My hair has shortened a bit, I'm turning politically from Liberal to Conservative and asthetically from hipster to dandy. I guess someone could call that as growing up.
I think it's in a way better to kick it off as a total reactionary and then move on to the left. It's more lasting than the other way around.As for hipsters vs dandies I think they are equally silly. The problem with "liberalism" is it has not much theoretical grounding so it's more like a phase/throwing a tantrum etc .

I'm not planning moving on to the left. To hell with rebellious peasants! Deus vult!
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2013, 05:05:32 PM »
this religion of ours

How would one interpret this? Is it self-irony, leftist anti-religious zeal, condescending mockery, mature disenchantment?
One needs not interpret everything I say. One may as well ignore it.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2013, 05:08:40 PM »
this religion of ours

How would one interpret this? Is it self-irony, leftist anti-religious zeal, condescending mockery, mature disenchantment?
One needs not interpret everything I say. One may as well ignore it.

But then again casuistry on the internet is a wonderful pastime.
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2013, 05:09:36 PM »
Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20. 

There're only 4 of us here IIRC. You, William, JamesR and me.

I counted until last June. I think there there are couple more in the 20-21 range as well.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2013, 05:10:12 PM »
I find that many of us, myself included, are just kids trying to sound like experienced adults, and making fools of ourselves in the process.  :laugh:

 ;D

Well, at least our audience isn't that much better.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline William

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2013, 05:11:22 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

Weird how once you see something referenced it seems to pop up everywhere. My watchmaker just told me this saying yesterday.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:11:33 PM by William »
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline sheenj

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2013, 05:13:04 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

My watchmaker just told me this saying yesterday.

LOL, do you have a cobbler as well?

Offline William

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2013, 05:13:19 PM »
Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20. 

There're only 4 of us here IIRC. You, William, JamesR and me.

JamesRottnek, that one liberal guy with the Lex Luthor avatar and the new guy who likes having theological breakthroughs. Plus a few lurkers.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline William

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2013, 05:14:02 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

My watchmaker just told me this saying yesterday.

LOL, do you have a cobbler as well?

Well we had to get the watch fitted somewhere.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2013, 05:20:10 PM »
Since being back on the forum, I've noticed that there are more posters than I first thought who are under 20.

There're only 4 of us here IIRC. You, William, JamesR and me.

JamesRottnek, that one liberal guy with the Lex Luthor avatar and the new guy who likes having theological breakthroughs. Plus a few lurkers.

We're probably the most tiring and annoying group on the whole forum.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:20:32 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

νίκας τοῖς Βασιλεῦσι κατὰ βαρβάρων δωρούμενος

Offline sheenj

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2013, 05:22:32 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."

My watchmaker just told me this saying yesterday.

LOL, do you have a cobbler as well?

Well we had to get the watch fitted somewhere.

I know, it just sounded funny to me for some reason.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2013, 05:23:29 PM »
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me..."

Elderly self-meta-narrative discourse.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2013, 05:27:10 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.

What's with the obsession with classes? I agree that class is often more relevant issue than nationality etc. but it doesn't dictate everything. I made it to the university and converted to Orthodoxy despite Working class Pentecostal parents.
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Offline sheenj

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2013, 05:28:50 PM »
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me..."

Elderly self-meta-narrative discourse.

"Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Youthful self-meta-narrative discourse.

;)
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:31:28 PM by sheenj »

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2013, 05:38:28 PM »
What's with the obsession with classes?

An old cunning trick of the Father of lies to divide the body of humanity through perpetual strife and rebellion, so that it cannot stand united as one Adam.

How's that for a meta-narrative?   

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2013, 05:40:07 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.

What's with the obsession with classes? I agree that class is often more relevant issue than nationality etc. but it doesn't dictate everything. I made it to the university and converted to Orthodoxy despite Working class Pentecostal parents.
I don't quite follow it really. i mean, of all people you know that Finland is a socialist-lite state that tends to make class conflict a bit less acute. As for Churchill he belonged to the uppermost crust of British society. i think it made him blind to plenty of other stuff. The "butade" quoted by Katherineofdixie is case in point.  What did it mean for Churchill to be a "liberal"? Perhaps offend a few of his class' sensibilities like "epater le bourgeois"? What did it mean to be a conservative? Preserve a social and economic order that directly benefited him and his peers like no other.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 05:43:37 PM by augustin717 »

Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2013, 05:46:51 PM »
As for Churchill he belonged to the uppermost crust of British society. i think it made him blind to plenty of other stuff. The "butade" quoted by Katherineofdixie is case in point.  What did it mean for Churchill to be a "liberal"? Perhaps offend a few of his class' sensibilities like "epater le bourgeois"? What did it mean to be a conservative? Preserve a social and economic order that directly benefited him and his peers like no other.

Seriously? Have you even read anything about Churchill and his life? His father was a younger son (admittedly of a family with a long and noble history) and his mother was an American heiress - Leonard Jerome's daughter. While he probably was of the upper classes, he was hardly normal or even typical.
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline augustin717

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2013, 05:49:55 PM »
As for Churchill he belonged to the uppermost crust of British society. i think it made him blind to plenty of other stuff. The "butade" quoted by Katherineofdixie is case in point.  What did it mean for Churchill to be a "liberal"? Perhaps offend a few of his class' sensibilities like "epater le bourgeois"? What did it mean to be a conservative? Preserve a social and economic order that directly benefited him and his peers like no other.

Seriously? Have you even read anything about Churchill and his life? His father was a younger son (admittedly of a family with a long and noble history) and his mother was an American heiress - Leonard Jerome's daughter. While he probably was of the upper classes, he was hardly normal or even typical.
Yes, it was hardly typical for someone  to live here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Palace

Offline Alpo

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2013, 05:57:21 PM »
The quotation attributed to Winston Churchill (but he probably didn't say it): "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart.  If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
Churchill was a reactionary his whole life . A man of his class. Not more , nor less.

What's with the obsession with classes? I agree that class is often more relevant issue than nationality etc. but it doesn't dictate everything. I made it to the university and converted to Orthodoxy despite Working class Pentecostal parents.
I don't quite follow it really. i mean, of all people you know that Finland is a socialist-lite state that tends to make class conflict a bit less acute.

So individuals can't really make anything on their own unless state bureaucracy comes to their aid?
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Offline katherineofdixie

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2013, 06:10:18 PM »
As for Churchill he belonged to the uppermost crust of British society. i think it made him blind to plenty of other stuff. The "butade" quoted by Katherineofdixie is case in point.  What did it mean for Churchill to be a "liberal"? Perhaps offend a few of his class' sensibilities like "epater le bourgeois"? What did it mean to be a conservative? Preserve a social and economic order that directly benefited him and his peers like no other.

Seriously? Have you even read anything about Churchill and his life? His father was a younger son (admittedly of a family with a long and noble history) and his mother was an American heiress - Leonard Jerome's daughter. While he probably was of the upper classes, he was hardly normal or even typical.
Yes, it was hardly typical for someone  to live here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Palace

Except he didn't live there. Remember me saying his father was a younger son?He was born there, by mistake - he wasn't expected to be born that soon.  And btw, Blenheim Palace was given to his ancestors by the state. (The Crown at that time.) Nice try, though. You could, of course, actually read about Churchill's life but that would probably be too unsettling.
How about actually
"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2013, 06:11:12 PM »
NVM
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 06:30:02 PM by Romaios »

Offline dzheremi

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2013, 06:17:02 PM »
Don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it. That's about all the advice I can offer on the public forum, but that's all you really need to make it through life, anyway.

Offline Romaios

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Re: Growing up
« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2013, 06:58:33 PM »
Don't trust whitey; see a doctor and get rid of it.

What's a 'whitey'? Some sort of disease? I checked here http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whitey, but couldn't make much of it.