Author Topic: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples  (Read 868 times)

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Offline Justin Kissel

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Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« on: January 09, 2013, 05:01:35 AM »
Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples

When laws went into effect in three states for same-sex couples to marry, many were quick to line up at their city halls to exchange vows. Now they may do so in one of the nation's most prominent churches -- the Washington National Cathedral.
 
Most Americans know the house of God, also called the Cathedral Church of St. Peter and St. Paul, as a place where sacred rites are carried out on behalf of the nation. It has been host to the funerals of numerous presidents and of inaugural prayer services for four presidents, including Barack Obama.
 
But it is also an active house of worship in the Episcopalian Church, said the Cathedral's dean, Gary Hall. The denomination has developed a blessing rite that mirrors current wedding ceremonies for heterosexual couples and allows each bishop to decide to allow same-sex marriages in their churches or not...
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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 05:07:08 AM »
What on earth is happening to the Episcopalians?
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Offline dzheremi

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 05:41:32 AM »
They've decided that each bishop is to decide what Christianity is for himself, it seems, and then inflict his personal vision on everybody else. Lord have mercy.

Offline LBK

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 05:51:57 AM »
What on earth is happening to the Episcopalians?

Just the continuation of the increasingly unholy mess that Anglican comprehensiveness has spawned over the past 30-40 years. I feel so sorry for those good and pious Anglicans who've been betrayed yet again by their hierarchy.
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Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 02:37:56 PM »
Let us hope the hierarchy never go there again, as it is no longer a church.
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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2013, 02:44:56 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.
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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 02:49:05 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

i'm sorry, i just never think about it that way.  If I as an American think of THAT church as what represents America...

Is it a historic landmark? Absolutely!  I just personally don't see it as much more than a museum. 
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 03:57:11 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 06:47:35 PM »
What on earth is happening to the Episcopalians?

Did you not get the memos? There was one from Henry VIII, one from Cramner, one from Cromwell, a coupld desperate communiques from Laud and Andrewes, which were ignored, and some epistles from Lambeth, and many others.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 06:48:21 PM »
What on earth is happening to the Episcopalians?

Just the continuation of the increasingly unholy mess that Anglican comprehensiveness has spawned over the past 30-40 years. I feel so sorry for those good and pious Anglicans who've been betrayed yet again by their hierarchy.

+1
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 06:49:12 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Bingo. And it holds more people than the Freemason lodge.
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Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 06:50:52 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

The majority of Americans has often favored other things as well that were probably not supported by the cathedral.
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Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 06:59:43 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

i'm sorry, i just never think about it that way.  If I as an American think of THAT church as what represents America...

Is it a historic landmark? Absolutely!  I just personally don't see it as much more than a museum. 

It is supposed to be the national church, or the closest thing to one under the First Amendment. But, I am with serb1389: I have never thought of this cathedral as suitable for Orthodox worship.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 12:53:14 AM »
Didn't take long from blessings to weddings, it seems.

Offline NightOwl

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 12:58:58 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:01:00 AM by NightOwl »

Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2013, 01:06:56 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.
Didn't a majority of the Israelites think it was a good idea to worship that golden calf?

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Offline Nephi

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2013, 01:09:06 AM »
Didn't a majority of the Israelites think it was a good idea to worship that golden calf?

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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2013, 01:10:42 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2013, 01:11:32 AM »
Didn't a majority of the Israelites think it was a good idea to worship that golden calf?

In Christ,
Andrew
After visiting a Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit, apparently most Israelities later thought it was a good idea to worship fertility goddesses.
Why not? If a majority agrees, go for it! It has to be right!

In Christ,
Andrew
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2013, 01:13:16 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

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I was merely following the logic of theistgal.  She seemed to be saying the National Cathedral shouldn't have gay marriage because it represents America.  However, if that's the case, then it actually makes perfect sense for it to have gay marriage.
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Offline Shlomlokh

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2013, 01:18:37 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

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I was merely following the logic of theistgal.  She seemed to be saying the National Cathedral shouldn't have gay marriage because it represents America.  However, if that's the case, then it actually makes perfect sense for it to have gay marriage.
But how do you know that the majority of Americans approve of homosexuals marrying one another?

In Christ,
Andrew
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Offline JamesRottnek

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2013, 01:37:51 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

In Christ,
Andrew

I was merely following the logic of theistgal.  She seemed to be saying the National Cathedral shouldn't have gay marriage because it represents America.  However, if that's the case, then it actually makes perfect sense for it to have gay marriage.
But how do you know that the majority of Americans approve of homosexuals marrying one another?

In Christ,
Andrew

Because I pay attention to polls.
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Offline NightOwl

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2013, 01:39:41 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

In Christ,
Andrew

I was merely following the logic of theistgal.  She seemed to be saying the National Cathedral shouldn't have gay marriage because it represents America.  However, if that's the case, then it actually makes perfect sense for it to have gay marriage.

No it doesn't, because representation isn't necessarily predicated on majority rule. For example, our political representatives are primarily elected by numerical majorities but (theoretically) make decisions based on what is in the best interests of their constituents and within certain legal constraints.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 01:40:52 AM by NightOwl »

Offline Tikhon.of.Colorado

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2013, 01:46:34 AM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.
I must agree. (I can feel you all judging me already.)

Does it really matter what that Church, in particular, is used for?  Some of you say that it's "no longer a Church."  Was it still a Church when the Episcopal Church instituted female clergy, or installed Rev. Bishop Catherine Schori?  The Episcopal Church has been very liberal, so I'm not surprised at all.  In a country with so many different ideas and philosophies, perhaps a Church that is used so much by our nation's leaders should be a bit more to the liberal side of things.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2013, 02:00:00 AM »
Please don't put words in my mouth.  I didn't say I felt that way, but that the reason it's controversial is because it's the "National" Cathedral, not just the Episcopal church down the street.
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Offline Basil 320

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2013, 02:00:45 AM »
defiling the holiness of the Cathedral.
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Offline Hinterlander

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2013, 11:05:09 PM »
How many of you would have communed at the National Cathedral before this happened?

I was there 7 years ago.  This is all I remember:


Offline Aaron M

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2013, 11:31:32 PM »
defiling the holiness of the Cathedral.

If ever this Cathedral had one like John Shelby Spong as a dean/rector or whatever the proper title, wouldn't his (or her) holding a leadership position and presumably teaching heresy or unbelief there be every bit as defiling?  Or would this be... is the term Donatist?  (Idea that the unworthiness of the minister/priest has no bearing on the effecting of a sacrament, but I don't know much about the Donatists historically.)

If, as an Orthodox, you (any Orthodox) believe that the Episcopal Church/Anglican Communion lacks any true sacramental grace by sole virtue of its not being in communion with the One Holy and Apostolic, why would you think that any act of non-traditional, not-grace-filled rituals performed in the National Cathedral is particularly defiling?  Presumably that 'Cathedral' was never holy to begin with, yes?

Offline Basil 320

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2013, 07:29:01 AM »
Yes.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #29 on: January 13, 2013, 09:04:48 AM »
Different people have different views on homosexuality...While the church offers help and counsel and such such it doesn't mean you should condone illicit sexual behavior.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 09:05:24 AM by WPM »

Offline miamiwestchester

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2013, 09:27:57 AM »

Didn't a majority of the Israelites think it was a good idea to worship that golden calf?

In Christ,
Andrew

Excellent answer

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Re: Washington National Cathedral To Wed Same-Sex Couples
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2013, 12:05:13 PM »
Problem is it's not just a church that represents Episcopalians, it's a church that represents the USA.

Which is all the more reason for them to do this, seeing as how a majority of Americans favor gay marriage.

Is numerical superiority within a secular body a legitimate reason for theological change? I'd like to think the U.S., much less any religious authority claiming to represent it, is above decisions that begin and end with simple majority rule...
Exactly. A majority of Americans were in favor of slavery and keeping women from voting, so it is clearly possible that just because people are supposedly of one mind on something does not mean they are not free from perilous folly which would be detrimental to the overall health of a population. I wish you good luck in getting James to admit that, though. :)

In Christ,
Andrew

No numerical superiority within a secular body is not a legitimate reason for theological change.  However, it could be a reason to give up a particular theology or religion altogether... if you really don't believe, you just don't believe...
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