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Author Topic: Russian for "Lord have mercy" ?  (Read 3460 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 08, 2013, 09:30:40 PM »

How do you say "Lord have mercy" in Russian (Slavonic?).    If you could give a transliteration as well as the cyrillic that would be great !   
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 09:51:14 PM »

Gospodi pomilui
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 10:05:43 PM »

Господи, помилуй.
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 10:19:10 PM »

wow, that was quick.  thank you both
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 10:21:29 PM »

I've also heard "Bozhe Pomilui," and then there's "Bozhe/Gospodi Pomilui Nas."

Боже, помилуй

Боже/Господи, помилуй нас
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 10:24:48 PM »

I've also heard "Bozhe Pomilui," and then there's "Bozhe/Gospodi Pomilui Nas."

Боже, помилуй

Боже/Господи, помилуй нас

Bozhe pomiluy is never used liturgically. Neither is Khritsye pomiluy.  police
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 10:47:47 PM »

I've also heard "Bozhe Pomilui," and then there's "Bozhe/Gospodi Pomilui Nas."

Боже, помилуй

Боже/Господи, помилуй нас

Bozhe pomiluy is never used liturgically. Neither is Khritsye pomiluy.  police
Господи, помилуй is used liturgically?  what's the transliteration for this? Gospodi pomilui ?

is Господи, помилуй Slavonic or Russian or both in this case?  obviously I know nothing of either
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 10:51:04 PM »

I've also heard "Bozhe Pomilui," and then there's "Bozhe/Gospodi Pomilui Nas."

Боже, помилуй

Боже/Господи, помилуй нас

Bozhe pomiluy is never used liturgically. Neither is Khritsye pomiluy.  police
Господи, помилуй is used liturgically?  what's the transliteration for this? Gospodi pomilui ?

is Господи, помилуй Slavonic or Russian or both in this case?  obviously I know nothing of either

Gospodi, pomiluy (Господи, помилуй) is constantly used liturgically. The first words of a foreign liturgical language one learns is Lord, have mercy in that language, simply because it is repeated so often in every type of service.  Smiley

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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 11:34:26 PM »

that's great, thanks...

last thing:  is Господи, помилуй Russian, Slavonic or both?
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 10:23:17 AM »

that's great, thanks...

last thing:  is Господи, помилуй Russian, Slavonic or both?

yep, as well for most other slavics...

also Romanian use "MILUeshte" what is close sound to "poMILUY" , same root.

Issue is it is may be far from "eleison" ....

"Slavic" Pray of tax collector also use "MILostiv" but it is not "ἐλέησον" but "ἱλάσθητί" and have not same meaning... so it is sad Slavics loosing  real meaning.... as well as English.... non of those words is "mercy" ... people pray and do not know what they asking ....

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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 10:34:27 AM »


Господи, помилуй is the same in Ukrainian.

However, pronounced with an H - Hospody Pomylooy!
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2013, 11:12:14 AM »

What is the Rusyn pronunciation?
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 11:13:18 AM »


Господи, помилуй is the same in Ukrainian.

However, pronounced with an H - Hospody Pomylooy!

"H" ... rubbish.

 Х (H) for  Хлiб not for (G) Господь , just as it is BoG, not BoH. and HLIB not GLIB, HLIV (хлiв) not GLIV (глiв), GLYNA not HLYNA, HVYLYA not GVYLYA.

You need to learn speak Ukrainian first....

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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 11:23:32 AM »

What is the Rusyn pronunciation?

there are is not "Russian" or "Ukrainian" ...  each village have own fanny accent ...

all current myth about "russian" or "ukrainian" or "belorussina" is just geo-political play game to ruin orthodoxy.












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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 11:28:30 AM »

that's great, thanks...

last thing:  is Господи, помилуй Russian, Slavonic or both?

yep, as well for most other slavics...

also Romanian use "MILUeshte" what is close sound to "poMILUY" , same root.

Issue is it is may be far from "eleison" ....

"Slavic" Pray of tax collector also use "MILostiv" but it is not "ἐλέησον" but "ἱλάσθητί" and have not same meaning... so it is sad Slavics loosing  real meaning.... as well as English.... non of those words is "mercy" ... people pray and do not know what they asking ....



Slight aside, I know, but the Romanian is 'Doamne miluieşte' which sounds like (roughly) 'DWAM-neh mee-loo-YESH-teh'. You're correct about the root (it's 'a milui' from Slavonic 'milovati') but what you describe as the pronunciation is rather off. You've missed the 'y' sound completely and it appears as though you're stressing the wrong syllable, though you may have meant something different by the capitalisation.

James
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 11:42:24 AM »


Господи, помилуй is the same in Ukrainian.

However, pronounced with an H - Hospody Pomylooy!

"H" ... rubbish.

 Х (H) for  Хлiб not for (G) Господь , just as it is BoG, not BoH. and HLIB not GLIB, HLIV (хлiв) not GLIV (глiв), GLYNA not HLYNA, HVYLYA not GVYLYA.

You need to learn speak Ukrainian first....



Excuse me?

Perhaps you need to learn Ukrainian.

There are two separate "H" sounds. 

Х = хліб   Khleeb with a soft "H" sound.
Г = Господь, Бог, Галина, Гадюка, гараж,...with the hard "H" sound.

Remember, Ukrainian is not Russian, nor Russian, Ukrainian.


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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2013, 12:00:32 PM »

that's great, thanks...

last thing:  is Господи, помилуй Russian, Slavonic or both?

yep, as well for most other slavics...

also Romanian use "MILUeshte" what is close sound to "poMILUY" , same root.

Issue is it is may be far from "eleison" ....

"Slavic" Pray of tax collector also use "MILostiv" but it is not "ἐλέησον" but "ἱλάσθητί" and have not same meaning... so it is sad Slavics loosing  real meaning.... as well as English.... non of those words is "mercy" ... people pray and do not know what they asking ....



Slight aside, I know, but the Romanian is 'Doamne miluieşte' which sounds like (roughly) 'DWAM-neh mee-loo-YESH-teh'. You're correct about the root (it's 'a milui' from Slavonic 'milovati') but what you describe as the pronunciation is rather off. You've missed the 'y' sound completely and it appears as though you're stressing the wrong syllable, though you may have meant something different by the capitalisation.

James

1. Romanian/moldavian sound like "Dom-ne" Smiley - it is from latin. Mee-loo-y is slavic.  and "yesh" - is coomon slavic ends... Romanian/moldovian use slavic alfabet till 150 years ago (or so).

2. Meelooy/miluy (mercy)  have no relation to "eleison" ... and it is KEY message ...  no matter , we like it or not. It is why Latin still keep "kirie eleison" , for there are not equal translation at Europe...

so slavic "Gospodi Pomiluy" - is wrong translation. Just as same as slavic and romanian/moldovian  creed about "sobornaya" -  CATHOLIC church is wrong too.
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2013, 12:17:32 PM »


Господи, помилуй is the same in Ukrainian.

However, pronounced with an H - Hospody Pomylooy!

"H" ... rubbish.

 Х (H) for  Хлiб not for (G) Господь , just as it is BoG, not BoH. and HLIB not GLIB, HLIV (хлiв) not GLIV (глiв), GLYNA not HLYNA, HVYLYA not GVYLYA.

You need to learn speak Ukrainian first....



Excuse me?

Perhaps you need to learn Ukrainian.

There are two separate "H" sounds.  

Х = хліб   Khleeb with a soft "H" sound.
Г = Господь, Бог, Галина, Гадюка, гараж,...with the hard "H" sound.

Remember, Ukrainian is not Russian, nor Russian, Ukrainian.




you not excused...

1. Ukrainian Orthodox live in Ukraine , not in USA.

In USA live Americans.


2. One who you call "Ukrainians" NEVER use Ukrainian as liturgical, because each village speaks own language. "Ukraine" - is fake , just same as "Russia".

Russia 20 years old state as well as Ukraine.
before that was USSR for 70.
before that Russian Empire for about 200.
before that every city was on they own SELF GOVERNING order.

You like it or not - it is reality.

No Ukraine ever -ever -ever was in the map till now.



so in Church people pray "slavic" , home people speak any way one like to and feel comfortable, depending how much gorilka, they drink.  so and that is CHECK and MATE.




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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2013, 12:23:42 PM »


you not excused...

1. Ukrainian Orthodox live in Ukraine , not in USA.

In USA live Americans.

Why are you bringing up who lives where?  That's not the point of this discussion.

However since you brought it up, I wold like to inform you that Ukrainians live all over the world.
Russians live in Ukraine...or I guess by your standards that makes them Ukrainians.

..and most assuredly there are many Ukrainian Orthodox in the USA and elsewhere.
 
Your comments display your lack of knowledge in this area.
You need to study some more.

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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2013, 12:29:51 PM »


1. Romanian/moldavian sound like "Dom-ne" Smiley - it is from latin. Mee-loo-y is slavic.  and "yesh" - is coomon slavic ends... Romanian/moldovian use slavic alfabet till 150 years ago (or so).
Yes Doamne is from Latin, but no it doesn't like 'Dom-ne'. It sounds like I described earlier - the o and a are run together with o being roughly equivalent to a soft English 'w' as a result. A milui is indeed from Slavonic as I clearly said but the 'este' ending is not - it's Latin based grammar welded on a Slavonic root. I speak the language pretty fluently. It seems to me that you have no more than a passing acquaintance with it. As for the Cyrillic alphabet - you're out on the years but essentially correct. So what?

Quote
2. Meelooy/miluy (mercy)  have no relation to "eleison" ... and it is KEY message ...  no matter , we like it or not. It is why Latin still keep "kirie eleison" , for there are not equal translation at Europe...
Somehow I doubt that you know what you're talking about. If I look up the meaning of 'Kyrie eleison' I find it means 'Lord have mercy'. 'Doamne miluieşte' certainly means the same (though the vocative grammar used makes it rather more emphatic than in English). Unless you can demonstrate a rather better grasp of Greek than you have of Romanian I have no reason to take your claim seriously. What do you think is wrong with the translation?

Quote
so slavic "Gospodi Pomiluy" - is wrong translation. Just as same as slavic and romanian/moldovian  creed about "sobornaya" -  CATHOLIC church is wrong too.
Why do think that? 'Sobornicesc' in Romanian is certainly the correct way to translate the catholic of the Creed (as it means according to the whole). The alternative, 'catolic', would be entirely wrong as that refers to the Roman Catholic Church only.

Incidentally, if you think that tracing back roots of words in one language to another informs you of the correct meaning of derived word currently then you need to brush up on your knowledge of linguistics.

James
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 12:42:07 PM »


you not excused...

1. Ukrainian Orthodox live in Ukraine , not in USA.

In USA live Americans.

Why are you bringing up who lives where?  That's not the point of this discussion.

However since you brought it up, I wold like to inform you that Ukrainians live all over the world.
Russians live in Ukraine...or I guess by your standards that makes them Ukrainians.

..and most assuredly there are many Ukrainian Orthodox in the USA and elsewhere.
 
Your comments display your lack of knowledge in this area.
You need to study some more.



you live in fantasy world and believe in myths.....


Any geo-political names given by some who play with your mind.

"Предсташа царие земстии, и князи собрашася вкупе на Господа и на Христа Его"  (Psalm 2)

" И гроби их жилища их во век, селения их в род и род, нарекоша имена своя на землях. И человек в чести сый не разуме, приложися скотом несмысленным и уподобися им" (Psalm 48)

You may ignore it as long you wish , but not for ever , just few more decades.... and then you no longer "Ukrainian" ...

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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 12:55:17 PM »


you not excused...

1. Ukrainian Orthodox live in Ukraine , not in USA.

In USA live Americans.

Why are you bringing up who lives where?  That's not the point of this discussion.

However since you brought it up, I wold like to inform you that Ukrainians live all over the world.
Russians live in Ukraine...or I guess by your standards that makes them Ukrainians.

..and most assuredly there are many Ukrainian Orthodox in the USA and elsewhere.
 
Your comments display your lack of knowledge in this area.
You need to study some more.



you live in fantasy world and believe in myths.....


Any geo-political names given by some who play with your mind.

"Предсташа царие земстии, и князи собрашася вкупе на Господа и на Христа Его"  (Psalm 2)

" И гроби их жилища их во век, селения их в род и род, нарекоша имена своя на землях. И человек в чести сый не разуме, приложися скотом несмысленным и уподобися им" (Psalm 48)

You may ignore it as long you wish , but not for ever , just few more decades.... and then you no longer "Ukrainian" ...



My dear,

You apparently don't really know me, otherwise, you would be well aware that I put Orthodoxy well above my love of nation, to the point that I have offended many Ukrainians.

However, since this thread is about Slavic languages and such, I will explain my Ukrainian point of view.

Furthermore, you need to relax.  The Orthodox Church is already One.  If you recall, during Pentecost the disciples were given the gift of language.  This leads me to believe that God doesn't wish to abolish the nations, just to reach all of them....using languages that the people living their will understand.

Therefore, your battle against Ukrainian or Romanian or whatever your true point is (which I have yet to deduce) is moot.  God will abolish what He wishes to abolish in His time....not yours....and He will nurture what He wishes to nurture.

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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 12:59:48 PM »


1. Romanian/moldavian sound like "Dom-ne" Smiley - it is from latin. Mee-loo-y is slavic.  and "yesh" - is coomon slavic ends... Romanian/moldovian use slavic alfabet till 150 years ago (or so).
Yes Doamne is from Latin, but no it doesn't like 'Dom-ne'. It sounds like I described earlier - the o and a are run together with o being roughly equivalent to a soft English 'w' as a result. A milui is indeed from Slavonic as I clearly said but the 'este' ending is not - it's Latin based grammar welded on a Slavonic root. I speak the language pretty fluently. It seems to me that you have no more than a passing acquaintance with it. As for the Cyrillic alphabet - you're out on the years but essentially correct. So what?

Quote
2. Meelooy/miluy (mercy)  have no relation to "eleison" ... and it is KEY message ...  no matter , we like it or not. It is why Latin still keep "kirie eleison" , for there are not equal translation at Europe...
Somehow I doubt that you know what you're talking about. If I look up the meaning of 'Kyrie eleison' I find it means 'Lord have mercy'. 'Doamne miluieşte' certainly means the same (though the vocative grammar used makes it rather more emphatic than in English). Unless you can demonstrate a rather better grasp of Greek than you have of Romanian I have no reason to take your claim seriously. What do you think is wrong with the translation?

Quote
so slavic "Gospodi Pomiluy" - is wrong translation. Just as same as slavic and romanian/moldovian  creed about "sobornaya" -  CATHOLIC church is wrong too.
Why do think that? 'Sobornicesc' in Romanian is certainly the correct way to translate the catholic of the Creed (as it means according to the whole). The alternative, 'catolic', would be entirely wrong as that refers to the Roman Catholic Church only.

Incidentally, if you think that tracing back roots of words in one language to another informs you of the correct meaning of derived word currently then you need to brush up on your knowledge of linguistics.

James

"Sobornaya" - in Slavic have no thing to do with "Catholic". it is extrimly distant meaning. Sobor - is council. not Catholic - Universal etc.  
Pomiluj - is mercy - YES. eleison is not mercy.

Tell me Romanian version of "Tax collector pray"?

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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »


1. Romanian/moldavian sound like "Dom-ne" Smiley - it is from latin. Mee-loo-y is slavic.  and "yesh" - is coomon slavic ends... Romanian/moldovian use slavic alfabet till 150 years ago (or so).
Yes Doamne is from Latin, but no it doesn't like 'Dom-ne'. It sounds like I described earlier - the o and a are run together with o being roughly equivalent to a soft English 'w' as a result. A milui is indeed from Slavonic as I clearly said but the 'este' ending is not - it's Latin based grammar welded on a Slavonic root. I speak the language pretty fluently. It seems to me that you have no more than a passing acquaintance with it. As for the Cyrillic alphabet - you're out on the years but essentially correct. So what?

Quote
2. Meelooy/miluy (mercy)  have no relation to "eleison" ... and it is KEY message ...  no matter , we like it or not. It is why Latin still keep "kirie eleison" , for there are not equal translation at Europe...
Somehow I doubt that you know what you're talking about. If I look up the meaning of 'Kyrie eleison' I find it means 'Lord have mercy'. 'Doamne miluieşte' certainly means the same (though the vocative grammar used makes it rather more emphatic than in English). Unless you can demonstrate a rather better grasp of Greek than you have of Romanian I have no reason to take your claim seriously. What do you think is wrong with the translation?

Quote
so slavic "Gospodi Pomiluy" - is wrong translation. Just as same as slavic and romanian/moldovian  creed about "sobornaya" -  CATHOLIC church is wrong too.
Why do think that? 'Sobornicesc' in Romanian is certainly the correct way to translate the catholic of the Creed (as it means according to the whole). The alternative, 'catolic', would be entirely wrong as that refers to the Roman Catholic Church only.

Incidentally, if you think that tracing back roots of words in one language to another informs you of the correct meaning of derived word currently then you need to brush up on your knowledge of linguistics.

James

"Sobornaya" - in Slavic have no thing to do with "Catholic". it is extrimly distant meaning. Sobor - is council. not Catholic - Universal etc.  
Pomiluj - is mercy - YES. eleison is not mercy.

Tell me Romanian version of "Tax collector pray"?



You have weird ideas. Perhaps you have proof for their veracity other than out of context quotes from the Psalms?
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 02:10:10 PM »

this is way off topic but as the OP I'll throw it in apropos of nothing...

When I was 6 or 7  I came home from school one day and asked my mom if we were Ukranians because I knew her mother was born in Odessa and I looked a little like other Ukranian kids in my school.  Her shock really surprised me because I didn't know any better or different and would have been fine with whatever the answer was.  She looked hard at me and emphatically said "we are Russians! - don't let anyone tell you you're Ukranian"!   I gathered from this it must be better to be Russian apparently but I had no idea why and I still don't.  Wink  Господи, помилуй.
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 02:49:52 PM »


Each is good in its own way.

Be proud of what you are....but, the main point is don't limit others who want to be what they are.
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 03:07:46 PM »

yep, as well for most other slavics...

Not in Belarussian, Polish, Czech, and Slovakian.
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 04:25:07 PM »


Each is good in its own way.

Be proud of what you are....but, the main point is don't limit others who want to be what they are.

no worries there... I'm not about to limit anyone who actually is something.  I envy them whatever they are.  The "melting pot" culture I grew up in "did a real number" on me.  I don't feel like anything but I might have some emotional patterns that carried over generations?  Some day I'd like to visit Slavic countries and see. 
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 06:25:10 PM »



Therefore, your battle against Ukrainian or Romanian or whatever your true point is (which I have yet to deduce) is moot.  God will abolish what He wishes to abolish in His time....not yours....and He will nurture what He wishes to nurture.



It seems to me that he battles against intelligence and the English language.  And he is losing both battles.
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 06:41:10 PM »

this is way off topic but as the OP I'll throw it in apropos of nothing...

When I was 6 or 7  I came home from school one day and asked my mom if we were Ukranians because I knew her mother was born in Odessa and I looked a little like other Ukranian kids in my school.  Her shock really surprised me because I didn't know any better or different and would have been fine with whatever the answer was.  She looked hard at me and emphatically said "we are Russians! - don't let anyone tell you you're Ukranian"!   I gathered from this it must be better to be Russian apparently but I had no idea why and I still don't.  Wink  Господи, помилуй.

Not to further spill the ethnographic worms of emnity, but there are a lot of Russians living in Ukraine and a lot of Ukrainians living in Russia. Sometimes, you can tell one from the other by last names. Sometimes by language (thought many Ukrainians don't speak Ukrainian), but mostly it seems to me it's more about self-identification. And you can't really argue about that. I mean, you could, but your varenniki will get bloody, and that's just awful to contemplate.
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 07:33:45 PM »

I knew about the Ukrainian use of H (both hard and soft) well before we emigrated to the United States. I must say that, as a Bulgarian, it is exceedingly odd that this is done, just as odd as the Russian substitution of the "shwa" sound for unaccepted vowels. I am very fond of he Kuban Kossack Choir and it just bothers me every time that its director is introduced as Victor Zakharchenka! Why would anyone use the feminine ending "ka" for Zakharchenko?  Cheesy

If I may say anything about our resident expert on all things Slavic, I do wander what sort of qualifications "Alive" possesses, and what makes him so sure of himself.
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 07:48:20 PM »

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If I may say anything about our resident expert on all things Slavic, I do wander what sort of qualifications "Alive" possesses, and what makes him so sure of himself.

Indeed. I would also have my doubts on his command of Greek.
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2013, 08:26:57 PM »

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If I may say anything about our resident expert on all things Slavic, I do wander what sort of qualifications "Alive" possesses, and what makes him so sure of himself.

Indeed. I would also have my doubts on his command of Greek.

One does not command Greek. It is Greek which commands.
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2013, 08:28:27 PM »


One does not command Greek. It is Greek which commands.

 laugh laugh laugh
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2013, 09:43:01 PM »


One does not command Greek. It is Greek which commands.

 laugh laugh laugh

Chuck Norris excepted , please !
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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2013, 11:18:44 PM »


Each is good in its own way.

Be proud of what you are....but, the main point is don't limit others who want to be what they are.


She promote what orthodoxy opposing....
Quote

Any question?


Satana is farther of pride.
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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2013, 11:32:55 PM »

I knew about the Ukrainian use of H (both hard and soft) well before we emigrated to the United States. I must say that, as a Bulgarian, it is exceedingly odd that this is done, just as odd as the Russian substitution of the "shwa" sound for unaccepted vowels. I am very fond of he Kuban Kossack Choir and it just bothers me every time that its director is introduced as Victor Zakharchenka! Why would anyone use the feminine ending "ka" for Zakharchenko?  Cheesy

If I may say anything about our resident expert on all things Slavic, I do wander what sort of qualifications "Alive" possesses, and what makes him so sure of himself.

1. You right , it is extrimly odd. simple people who live in villages, abused by government with all this grammatical innovation. Most people in the villages speak no "ukreinin" nor "russian". 

2.also i have no idea why any one put "K" for ZaKhahernko, if it is ZaHarenko.

All this grammar games is just to waist money and play with people mind


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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2013, 11:42:12 PM »


Not to further spill the ethnographic worms of emnity, but there are a lot of Russians living in Ukraine and a lot of Ukrainians living in Russia. Sometimes, you can tell one from the other by last names. Sometimes by language (thought many Ukrainians don't speak Ukrainian), but mostly it seems to me it's more about self-identification. And you can't really argue about that. I mean, you could, but your varenniki will get bloody, and that's just awful to contemplate.

you are talking about "citizenship" what called this day "nationality as in passport".


Politicians use "grammar games" to screw people mind ... and it is sound like people are happy to be rip off.
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2013, 11:46:44 PM »

Quote
2.also i have no idea why any one put "K" for ZaKhahernko, if it is ZaHarenko.

This is done when transliterating X from a Slavic language or Greek to English. The English H is softer than the X of Greek or Slavic languages, so the KH tells the reader to pronounce it more heavily than the normal English H.

Nothing to do with playing with anyone's mind.  Angry
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« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2013, 12:06:56 AM »


Each is good in its own way.

Be proud of what you are....but, the main point is don't limit others who want to be what they are.


She promote what orthodoxy opposing....
Quote

Any question?


Satana is farther of pride.

....that's the best you got?

Are you suggesting I should be ashamed of the family/ancestry into which God planted me?

Just a couple of days ago during Liturgy was read from the Gospel that so and so begot so and so, etc.
This was a documentation of Christ's ancestry.

So, should we shun that which Christ honored?



« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 12:11:13 AM by LizaSymonenko » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2013, 12:14:02 AM »

this is way off topic but as the OP I'll throw it in apropos of nothing...

When I was 6 or 7  I came home from school one day and asked my mom if we were Ukranians because I knew her mother was born in Odessa and I looked a little like other Ukranian kids in my school.  Her shock really surprised me because I didn't know any better or different and would have been fine with whatever the answer was.  She looked hard at me and emphatically said "we are Russians! - don't let anyone tell you you're Ukranian"!   I gathered from this it must be better to be Russian apparently but I had no idea why and I still don't.  Wink  Господи, помилуй.

This reminds me of my grandfather.  His parents were from the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and spoke Slovak.  He would tell anyone who asked him that he was a Pole!  laugh

And you can't really argue about that. I mean, you could, but your varenniki will get bloody, and that's just awful to contemplate.
Yes.  Yes it is.  Shocked
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« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2013, 05:17:25 AM »


"Sobornaya" - in Slavic have no thing to do with "Catholic". it is extrimly distant meaning. Sobor - is council. not Catholic - Universal etc.  
Pomiluj - is mercy - YES. eleison is not mercy.


Catholic means 'according to the whole'. Conciliar (i.e. holding to the faith of the whole Church as expressed in council) seems a perfectly reasonable way to translate the Orthodox understanding of that idea into a different language. We don't understand Catholic to mean universal in the way that some Roman Catholics seem to. If you're saying that sobornicesc doesn't correctly translate the latter Latin idea I'd agree with you (which is why Romanian also has catolic), but that's only because that peculiar interpretation of catholic is, in itself, not a particularly good translation (to the best of my knowledge - may a Greek speaker correct if I'm wrong) of the Greek 'kata holos'.

Quote

Tell me Romanian version of "Tax collector pray"?

You mean what does Luke 18:13 say in Romanian? It's: 'Dumnezeule, fii milostiv mie, păcătosului'. Which translates as 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner'. That's grammatically different (exactly as it is in English) from 'Lord have mercy on me' but essentially means exactly the same thing. And as you can see, milostiv has precisely the same root as a milui. What point were you trying to make exactly?

James
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« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2013, 07:08:56 AM »


"Sobornaya" - in Slavic have no thing to do with "Catholic". it is extrimly distant meaning. Sobor - is council. not Catholic - Universal etc.  
Pomiluj - is mercy - YES. eleison is not mercy.


Catholic means 'according to the whole'. Conciliar (i.e. holding to the faith of the whole Church as expressed in council) seems a perfectly reasonable way to translate the Orthodox understanding of that idea into a different language. We don't understand Catholic to mean universal in the way that some Roman Catholics seem to. If you're saying that sobornicesc doesn't correctly translate the latter Latin idea I'd agree with you (which is why Romanian also has catolic), but that's only because that peculiar interpretation of catholic is, in itself, not a particularly good translation (to the best of my knowledge - may a Greek speaker correct if I'm wrong) of the Greek 'kata holos'.

Quote

Tell me Romanian version of "Tax collector pray"?

You mean what does Luke 18:13 say in Romanian? It's: 'Dumnezeule, fii milostiv mie, păcătosului'. Which translates as 'God, be merciful to me, the sinner'. That's grammatically different (exactly as it is in English) from 'Lord have mercy on me' but essentially means exactly the same thing. And as you can see, milostiv has precisely the same root as a milui. What point were you trying to make exactly?

James

1. Catholic mean worldwide, universal etc. not Conciliar ... there are not democracy in Church.

in reality there are not "orthodox Church". Church is "Catholic" , and teaching and perception are "orthodox".

As far i know Romania have few translation of creed used depending on region (it is not about "sobornicesc"). .... But lets back to Sobornaya - at "slavic" people take wrongly across. It used to promote autocracy of bishop etc, so basically it is promote Popism.


i am not fluent in Romanian , but "Sobor" have  Slavic origin and on slavic have not much retailer to Universal, and most books do teach "sobotnaya" as ruled by council of bishops...
And it is wrong, incorrect as well as path to corruption.


2.   For me ἐλέησον and ἱλάσθητί are not same.
Just same as μακάριοι is not  εὐλογημένη , but people translated it english use just blessed.... for both.... if it not make diferent for you ...well ... it is not same for me so i did point it out.

...and if i do ask God about some thing , i like to make sure i am clear about.





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« Reply #43 on: January 10, 2013, 07:32:34 AM »


Each is good in its own way.

Be proud of what you are....but, the main point is don't limit others who want to be what they are.


She promote what orthodoxy opposing....
Quote

Any question?


Satana is farther of pride.

....that's the best you got?

Are you suggesting I should be ashamed of the family/ancestry into which God planted me?

Just a couple of days ago during Liturgy was read from the Gospel that so and so begot so and so, etc.
This was a documentation of Christ's ancestry.

So, should we shun that which Christ honored?





I suggesting you no thing. I am not your spiritual father.

I just declare that you do promoting PAGANISM.

and you start speculating on "Christ genealogy".  As well as before you speculated on "Pentecostal" 



You like to be PROUD - it is your chose.
but it is not what Orthodoxy about.


nazi and orthodoxy not going along side.

One more time there are never was "Ukraine" ... just same as never was Greece and Romania. it is fake states. ... and by the way Russia is fake too.

I guess you not respect David and not read psalms:

Quote
"Предсташа царие земстии, и князи собрашася вкупе на Господа и на Христа Его"  (Psalm 2)

" И гроби их жилища их во век, селения их в род и род, нарекоша имена своя на землях. И человек в чести сый не разуме, приложися скотом несмысленным и уподобися им" (Psalm 48)

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« Reply #44 on: January 10, 2013, 07:39:06 AM »

Quote
2.also i have no idea why any one put "K" for ZaKhahernko, if it is ZaHarenko.

This is done when transliterating X from a Slavic language or Greek to English. The English H is softer than the X of Greek or Slavic languages, so the KH tells the reader to pronounce it more heavily than the normal English H.

Nothing to do with playing with anyone's mind.  Angry

blah-blah-blah....

then you need to write Khome , not home, KHorse not horse.
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