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Author Topic: Orthodox vs Catholic Debate  (Read 2768 times) Average Rating: 0
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domNoah
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« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2013, 12:28:01 AM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
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« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2013, 12:30:15 AM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
Pray tell Noah are you a dominican brother?
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2013, 12:35:13 AM »

Perhaps I am not following the thread (in question) closely enough, but I don't think any lasting animosity need remain from that. Schultz is a bit acerbic at times, but nonetheless a stand up guy. When he resigned as mod of the Catholic section I don't remember only positive comments from every side regarding the job he had done. I say this not to say you're wrong, only that I'd hate for this thing to be an obstacle moving forward, even in discussions with Schultz himself. I guess maybe it's corny to play peace keeper, but that's my 2 cents. Smiley

It's not corny, but it's pretty predictable. Basically the usual If-you-have-a-problem,then-you-must-be-reading-in-something-that-isn't-there-or etc. etc. Forgive me for saying that it has gotten a little old.

I apologize, my post was not meant to be of the "you're wrong and he's right" type, or to imply something along the lines of "you're seeing things that aren't there". I just meant that he was a good guy and it seemed like it'd just be good to not worry about past issues like that. Smiley
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2013, 08:39:58 AM »

Well said.

Oh, wait, for a second I thought we were talking about the Fourth Crusade.  laugh
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« Reply #49 on: January 14, 2013, 08:46:37 AM »

I'm sure many on this thread will remember the thread called (I think) "Why do Protestants convert to Orthodoxy rather than Catholicism?" That title makes it sound like Catholics don't do very well in relation to protestants; but I believe we do -- not withstanding the obvious differences and painful memories, because we don't take an attitude of, Let's pray that protestants be kept away from [fill in Catholic places].
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« Reply #50 on: January 15, 2013, 10:11:41 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
Pray tell Noah are you a dominican brother?

No, I am brother in the CPMO. 
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« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2013, 03:46:51 AM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.

Good for you.  There is a priest I know who operates an apologetics blog which is essentially a blog to berate anyone who is not Catholic.
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« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2013, 04:56:47 AM »

Are there some good, modern RC apologetics against Ortodoxy out there that someone could link me to? Something with divorce, contraception or a long list of quotes in it doesn't count.
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« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2013, 11:15:56 AM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
Pray tell Noah are you a dominican brother?

No, I am brother in the CPMO. 

 Huh

Is that the Corporate Project Management Office? Grin

Or...Christi Pauperum Militum Ordo?

Not that I know the difference  Cool Cool.
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« Reply #54 on: January 16, 2013, 04:45:47 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
Pray tell Noah are you a dominican brother?

No, I am brother in the CPMO. 

 Huh

Is that the Corporate Project Management Office? Grin

Or...Christi Pauperum Militum Ordo?

Not that I know the difference  Cool Cool.

 Wink Christi Pauperum Militum Ordo, we also go by the Milita Templi.
We are the only Canonically recognized "Knights Templar", we do not claim to be descended from the Ancient Order but our Rule of Life is based off the ancient rule.

Here is a mostly accurate article on us in Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Templi

« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:48:14 PM by domNoah » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: January 16, 2013, 07:28:57 PM »

Well said.

Oh, wait, for a second I thought we were talking about the Fourth Crusade.  laugh

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« Reply #56 on: January 16, 2013, 08:14:33 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.

Good for you.  There is a priest I know who operates an apologetics blog which is essentially a blog to berate anyone who is not Catholic.
Father Z?
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« Reply #57 on: January 16, 2013, 08:23:53 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.

Good for you.  There is a priest I know who operates an apologetics blog which is essentially a blog to berate anyone who is not Catholic.
Father Z?
That's who you thought of?
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« Reply #58 on: January 16, 2013, 08:26:50 PM »

Father Z?

No.  This one is anti-sspx though he is pro-tradition.
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« Reply #59 on: January 16, 2013, 08:27:34 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.

Good for you.  There is a priest I know who operates an apologetics blog which is essentially a blog to berate anyone who is not Catholic.
Father Z?
That's who you thought of?
He's quite a character. Sort of a Barney Rubble meets Chronicles of Riddick.
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
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« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2013, 10:21:39 PM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.

Good for you.  There is a priest I know who operates an apologetics blog which is essentially a blog to berate anyone who is not Catholic.
Father Z?
That's who you thought of?
He's quite a character. Sort of a Barney Rubble meets Chronicles of Riddick.
It had been a little while since I read his blog, so I said to myself "If I'm going to defend him, better brush up a little first." Just looking at the titles of his recent bloggings didn't grab my attention, so then I googled eastern site:wdtprs.com/blog/

At the top of the list was "Bartholomew I to Eastern Catholics: return to Orthodoxy without ...". I was intrigued enough to click on the link to find out what the rest of the title was, (wondering if it was "without looking back" or something).

Then when I saw the full title I thought "Oh, not that old business." But that's not to say that I'm giving up on defending him. (And of course, Fr. Z doesn't control which result Google puts at the top. Smiley)
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« Reply #61 on: January 17, 2013, 10:28:53 PM »

From the abovementioned blog:
Quote

Also, it is evident now that the Orthodox, for whom identity and liturgy are so very closely aligned, are fully aware that they will be soon pressed hard indeed by Islam.  Therefore, a stronger friendship with Rome, in the culture/identity/survival struggle to come will be of great benefit.

Fr Z seems to have forgotten the small matter of Ottoman conquest of most of Orthodox Europe for a good four centuries. Islam did not, and could not, destroy Orthodoxy, any more than Soviet atheism could.
 
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« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2013, 09:29:30 PM »

From the abovementioned blog:
Quote

Also, it is evident now that the Orthodox, for whom identity and liturgy are so very closely aligned, are fully aware that they will be soon pressed hard indeed by Islam.  Therefore, a stronger friendship with Rome, in the culture/identity/survival struggle to come will be of great benefit.

Fr Z seems to have forgotten the small matter of Ottoman conquest of most of Orthodox Europe for a good four centuries. Islam did not, and could not, destroy Orthodoxy, any more than Soviet atheism could.
 

And a fat lot of good "a stronger friendship with Rome" did us at those times we tried rapprochement after the schism to fight the Turks and Mohammedans. The papacy has always thought more of its spiritual and temporal power than could ever be demonstrated in reality.
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« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2013, 10:36:11 PM »

Reading Fr Z's blog has reminded of something else: it always seems a trifle strange to me when traditionalist Catholics cite Fr. Taft against the Orthodox. I mean, isn't Taft super liberal, at least from the traditionalist Catholic pov?
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« Reply #64 on: January 18, 2013, 10:57:03 PM »

Reading Fr Z's blog has reminded of something else: it always seems a trifle strange to me when traditionalist Catholics cite Fr. Taft against the Orthodox. I mean, isn't Taft super liberal, at least from the traditionalist Catholic pov?

In what sense?

Maybe in the same sense that traddies say that the Mass should only be in Latin, but won't complain about an English Divine Liturgy.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:57:51 PM by choy » Logged
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« Reply #65 on: January 18, 2013, 11:08:10 PM »

Reading Fr Z's blog has reminded of something else: it always seems a trifle strange to me when traditionalist Catholics cite Fr. Taft against the Orthodox. I mean, isn't Taft super liberal, at least from the traditionalist Catholic pov?

In what sense?

Maybe in the same sense that traddies say that the Mass should only be in Latin, but won't complain about an English Divine Liturgy.

When I attended a Roman Catholic church as one, I never heard the mass in Latin. Personally, in the Eastern Catholic church, the Divine Liturgy is far more beautiful and rich than the highest solemn mass at the Vatican (I've seen many).

I happen to feel traditionalist Catholics focus on the differences, not the similarities towards the faiths. East and West are simply liturgically, but we all grew out of similar doctrine.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 11:11:18 PM by Jules_Grant » Logged

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« Reply #66 on: January 18, 2013, 11:42:15 PM »

Reading Fr Z's blog has reminded of something else: it always seems a trifle strange to me when traditionalist Catholics cite Fr. Taft against the Orthodox. I mean, isn't Taft super liberal, at least from the traditionalist Catholic pov?

In what sense?

Good question ... general liberalness, I guess (don't quote me on that).

Maybe in the same sense that traddies say that the Mass should only be in Latin, but won't complain about an English Divine Liturgy.

Maybe.
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« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2013, 11:11:12 AM »

But that's not to say that I'm giving up on defending him.

Well ... maybe I am.

I just finished reading this page, The Russians aren’t coming! The Russians aren’t coming! At the risk of sounding cliche, I have to say: Wow. (No, I don't mean "Wow, the Russian are not coming?" but wow at what's said on that page. Don't read it if you're highly sensitive or have a weak heart.  Cool)
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« Reply #68 on: January 19, 2013, 11:21:30 AM »

But that's not to say that I'm giving up on defending him.

Well ... maybe I am.

I just finished reading this page, The Russians aren’t coming! The Russians aren’t coming! At the risk of sounding cliche, I have to say: Wow. (No, I don't mean "Wow, the Russian are not coming?" but wow at what's said on that page. Don't read it if you're highly sensitive or have a weak heart.  Cool)

The worst part of the link was reading people's opinions in which they consider themselves experts on but yet insist on calling Ukraine "the Ukraine".  Gruff!
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« Reply #69 on: January 19, 2013, 11:26:55 AM »

Are there even Roman Catholics out there anymore who take their beliefs seriously enough to actually debate Orthodoxy instead of taking the ecumenical approach? From my experience with Roman Catholics in person, they seem very ecumenical and somewhat uninformed upon our differences when I tell them that I am Orthodox.

Well, there's two approaches Catholics make.  One is the, "we're the same faith expressed differently and only politics separates us."  The other is, "you are heretic schismatics and everything you say is false because you are not in communion with the Pope."

I am Catholic and I don't take that approach.
Pray tell Noah are you a dominican brother?

No, I am brother in the CPMO. 

 Huh

Is that the Corporate Project Management Office? Grin

Or...Christi Pauperum Militum Ordo?

Not that I know the difference  Cool Cool.

 Wink Christi Pauperum Militum Ordo, we also go by the Milita Templi.
We are the only Canonically recognized "Knights Templar", we do not claim to be descended from the Ancient Order but our Rule of Life is based off the ancient rule.

Here is a mostly accurate article on us in Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Templi



Kind of like opus dei in a sense that it is a lay organisation but has priests and professed and laity?  Yes I know what Opus Dei is and not the Dan Brown version either Smiley
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« Reply #70 on: January 19, 2013, 11:41:25 AM »

people's opinions in which they consider themselves experts
The entire blog-world, unfortunately.
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« Reply #71 on: January 19, 2013, 12:19:24 PM »

But that's not to say that I'm giving up on defending him.

Well ... maybe I am.

I just finished reading this page, The Russians aren’t coming! The Russians aren’t coming! At the risk of sounding cliche, I have to say: Wow. (No, I don't mean "Wow, the Russian are not coming?" but wow at what's said on that page. Don't read it if you're highly sensitive or have a weak heart.  Cool)

The worst part of the link was reading people's opinions in which they consider themselves experts on but yet insist on calling Ukraine "the Ukraine".  Gruff!

Yeah I noticed that too. (I can also think of a lot of other things on that page that bothered me.)
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