Author Topic: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?  (Read 1495 times)

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Offline tweety234

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does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« on: January 08, 2013, 04:45:40 PM »
What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?
“God has no religion.”
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Offline choy

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 04:48:19 PM »
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

Offline Shanghaiski

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 04:52:03 PM »
What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?

It's Las Vegas after the Apocalypse.
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Offline tweety234

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 04:53:15 PM »
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 04:54:35 PM »
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 04:56:55 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline tweety234

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 05:03:05 PM »
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.




anything more enlightening.?
thank you.
“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 05:04:19 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

Offline 88Devin12

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 05:04:41 PM »
It is a metaphor.  There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.

how can we be sure of that?

The Church Fathers would be one authority.
anything more enlightening.?
thank you.

What is more enlightening than the Church Fathers?

Offline tweety234

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 05:10:14 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?
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Offline Romaios

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 05:16:21 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29

Offline tweety234

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 05:20:01 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?
“God has no religion.”
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 05:20:45 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.

Offline tweety234

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 05:25:54 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.


what is the early christian belief of hell and how exactly is it far worse than the hell of the westerners?
“God has no religion.”
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 05:26:37 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline J Michael

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 05:27:28 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Hell has no east or west.  Just the metaphors and other words used to try to describe it.  And yes, it CAN be THAT bad!  Definitely try to avoid hell.  Tempting God, i.e. thinking "...more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell." is NOT a good way to avoid hell.
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

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Offline Romaios

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 05:45:14 PM »
One of the most impressive descriptions of "Western" hell I've ever read is found in chapter III of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm

Pure soul-benefiting Jesuit stuff!
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:53:10 PM by Romaios »

Offline William

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 05:45:55 PM »
It's where you spend all of eternity if you do not repent of sin.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline J Michael

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 05:50:52 PM »
One of the most impressive descriptions of "Western hell" I've ever read is found in chapter III of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man:

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htm

Pure soul-benefiting Jesuit stuff!


nvm
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:51:47 PM by J Michael »
"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)

Offline biro

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 06:35:56 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
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Offline pmpn8rGPT

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 07:08:20 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.
I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist.
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Offline 88Devin12

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 07:20:21 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy.
I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist.

Early Christian heretics aren't Christian, like Mornons and Jehovah's Witnesses aren't Christians.

Offline Jetavan

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 11:17:34 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Ashman618

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 11:58:49 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.

Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"?

Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 12:09:31 AM »
So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...

That includes Theologians & Saints.  Nobody knows what Hell is.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 12:14:35 AM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?
God is a mathematician.

Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"?
Yeah, one could say that mathematics, like the laws of Moses, prepared (and prepares) man for the messiah.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline domNoah

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 04:41:03 PM »
Hell is a physical place as well as a spiritual place, the fire in Hell is real.  On the Last Day when we are joined again with our Bodies, the wicked will be thrown body and soul into hell, and both body and soul will burn forever.

Not only is this in scripture but it is present among the Fathers of the Church.

"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52). St Justin Martyr

"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We b.aspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past"  St Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]). 


« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:45:00 PM by domNoah »
The true story of the sword in the stone
http://tinyurl.com/l98rcxp

Ancient Eucharistic Miracles (East and West)
http://tinyurl.com/mnpg8og

St Anthony the Great War on demons
http://tinyurl.com/k7zcycx

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Offline domNoah

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 04:42:19 PM »
So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...

That includes Theologians & Saints.  Nobody knows what Hell is.


Our Lord Jesus Christ who is Eternal truth knows what hell is, and he described it for us so that we are motivated to not go there.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:45:41 PM by domNoah »
The true story of the sword in the stone
http://tinyurl.com/l98rcxp

Ancient Eucharistic Miracles (East and West)
http://tinyurl.com/mnpg8og

St Anthony the Great War on demons
http://tinyurl.com/k7zcycx

http://www.alleluiaaudiobooks.com/

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 04:53:01 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

how exactly is the western hell?

It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas....
...the worst of which is:

Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long.

They counted?

Haha, this is Buddhism we're talking about, everything is counted, categorized, and filed.

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 04:54:08 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?

From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material.

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 05:22:41 PM »
I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".

Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept.

how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being?

From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material.
I thought the choices were spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by God's love, or spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by the pain of the loss of Heaven and materially eternally burnt to a crisp by flames that give no light whatsoever. No material only option  ???
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Offline theistgal

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Re: does anyone care to explain this because I don't get it?
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 10:51:40 PM »
Whatever it is, it sounds painful so I'd prefer to avoid it.  8)
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