tweety234
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« on: January 08, 2013, 04:45:40 PM » |
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What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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choy
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 04:48:19 PM » |
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It is a metaphor. There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 04:52:03 PM » |
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What is the lake of fire (gehenna)? is it a lake where we will be boiling and swimming for one eternity, where god will light fire on it? what is it?
It's Las Vegas after the Apocalypse. |
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O Master Lord our God...who are wondrous in glory; who keeps his covenant and his mercy to them who love him with all their heart; who has given us redemption...through his only-begotten son, Jesus Christ...the life of everyone, the help of those who flee to him, the hope of those who cry to him.
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tweety234
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 04:53:15 PM » |
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It is a metaphor. There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
how can we be sure of that? |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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88Devin12
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 04:54:35 PM » |
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It is a metaphor. There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
how can we be sure of that? The Church Fathers would be one authority. |
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JamesR
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 04:56:55 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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tweety234
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 05:03:05 PM » |
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It is a metaphor. There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
how can we be sure of that? The Church Fathers would be one authority. anything more enlightening.? thank you. |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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88Devin12
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 05:04:19 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept. |
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88Devin12
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 05:04:41 PM » |
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It is a metaphor. There is no actual physical fire as far as we can tell.
how can we be sure of that? The Church Fathers would be one authority. anything more enlightening.? thank you. What is more enlightening than the Church Fathers? |
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tweety234
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 05:10:14 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Romaios
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 05:16:21 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_%28Buddhism%29 |
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Erunt dies antiqui et anni aeterni et luciflua tempora, solque non occidet, et luna non minorabitur, quorum luminis nemo indigebit sanctorum.
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tweety234
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 05:20:01 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept. how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being? |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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88Devin12
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« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 05:20:45 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy. |
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tweety234
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« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 05:25:54 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy. what is the early christian belief of hell and how exactly is it far worse than the hell of the westerners? |
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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Jetavan
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« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2013, 05:26:37 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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J Michael
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« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2013, 05:27:28 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Hell has no east or west. Just the metaphors and other words used to try to describe it. And yes, it CAN be THAT bad! Definitely try to avoid hell. Tempting God, i.e. thinking " ...more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell." is NOT a good way to avoid hell. |
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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Romaios
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« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 05:45:14 PM » |
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One of the most impressive descriptions of "Western" hell I've ever read is found in chapter III of Joyce's Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4217/4217-h/4217-h.htmPure soul-benefiting Jesuit stuff! |
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:53:10 PM by Romaios »
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Erunt dies antiqui et anni aeterni et luciflua tempora, solque non occidet, et luna non minorabitur, quorum luminis nemo indigebit sanctorum.
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William
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« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 05:45:55 PM » |
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It's where you spend all of eternity if you do not repent of sin.
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A beard covers many chins. - Tallitot
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J Michael
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« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 05:50:52 PM » |
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:51:47 PM by J Michael »
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"Right is right even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it."
— St. Augustine of Hippo
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biro
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 06:35:56 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. They counted? |
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phthalyl.podomatic.com
the-cornet.blogspot.com
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pmpn8rGPT
我不會說中國話
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יהוה יעזור לנו
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« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2013, 07:08:20 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy. I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist. |
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טוֹב, לַחֲסוֹת בַּיהוָה-- מִבְּטֹחַ, בָּאָדָם.
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88Devin12
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« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2013, 07:20:21 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's certainly not the early Christian view of hell and really didn't start popping up in Christianity until the West started its fall into heresy. I'm not advocating for western hell, but there DEFINITELY were early Christians who believed in a literal Gehenna Hell, otherwise the heretical Apocalypse of Peter would not exist. Early Christian heretics aren't Christian, like Mornons and Jehovah's Witnesses aren't Christians. |
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Jetavan
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« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2013, 11:17:34 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. They counted? God is a mathematician. |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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Ashman618
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« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2013, 11:58:49 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. They counted? God is a mathematician. Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"? |
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 12:09:31 AM » |
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So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...
That includes Theologians & Saints. Nobody knows what Hell is.
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Jetavan
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2013, 12:14:35 AM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. They counted? God is a mathematician. Biblically can mathematics be grouped under, "traditions of men"? Yeah, one could say that mathematics, like the laws of Moses, prepared (and prepares) man for the messiah. |
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If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
I'm not a witch.
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
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domNoah
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2013, 04:41:03 PM » |
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Hell is a physical place as well as a spiritual place, the fire in Hell is real. On the Last Day when we are joined again with our Bodies, the wicked will be thrown body and soul into hell, and both body and soul will burn forever.
Not only is this in scripture but it is present among the Fathers of the Church.
"[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (ibid., 52). St Justin Martyr
"We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We b.aspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" St Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures 18:19 [A.D. 350]).
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:45:00 PM by domNoah »
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domNoah
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2013, 04:42:19 PM » |
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So many know about concepts to somewhere they have not been, nor know absolutely anybody who has directly been...
That includes Theologians & Saints. Nobody knows what Hell is.
Our Lord Jesus Christ who is Eternal truth knows what hell is, and he described it for us so that we are motivated to not go there. |
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 04:45:41 PM by domNoah »
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Iconodule
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2013, 04:53:01 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
how exactly is the western hell? It's probably one of the many Buddhist narakas.... ...the worst of which is: Avīci, the "uninterrupted" Naraka. Beings are roasted in an immense blazing oven with terrible suffering. Life in this Naraka is 3.39738624×10^18 years long. They counted? Haha, this is Buddhism we're talking about, everything is counted, categorized, and filed. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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Iconodule
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2013, 04:54:08 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept. how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being? From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material. |
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"A Poet a Painter a Musician an Architect: the Man Or Woman who is not one of these is not a Christian." - William Blake
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Justin Kolodziej
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Scarcely corrigible aphron
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2013, 05:22:41 PM » |
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I have to admit, after learning about the Eastern Orthodox conception of Hell, I find myself MUCH less afraid of Hell--and probably more willing to take chances and sin, thinking, "Well, it can't be THAT bad, at least it isn't like western Hell".
Then you don't understand the Orthodox concept of hell. I find it far worse than the western concept. how is being burned and boiled in a lake with fire for an eternity, any better than hell being just a state of being? From the basic premise that what is spiritual takes precedence over what is material. I thought the choices were spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by God's love, or spiritually eternally burnt to a crisp by the pain of the loss of Heaven and materially eternally burnt to a crisp by flames that give no light whatsoever. No material only option  |
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I am blessed to be an Austrian-Galician-Polish-Ruthenian-American.
If I had more faith less things would anger me.
St. Justin Martyr, St. John Cassian, and all Desert Fathers, pray for me!
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theistgal
Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic gadfly
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don't even go there!
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2013, 10:51:40 PM » |
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Whatever it is, it sounds painful so I'd prefer to avoid it.  |
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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)
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