are you gay?

[Ebor]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

Liberals might have liberal convertitis.

In that case, I find the liberal strain of convertitis much more tolerable than it's conservative counterpart.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

Sherry, pork pies, and inter-parish get togethers to watch Downton Abbey and Doctor Who on the BBC.

[Ebor]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

Sherry, pork pies, and inter-parish get togethers to watch Downton Abbey and Doctor Who on the BBC.

What?  No Cricket? 
And I've never seen a port pie at my parish.. lots of other good cooking but not that. 

What about singing all the verses on hymns?   

[Jetavan]

"The learned man hath got the Lady gay."

--   Shakespeare et al., The Passionate Pilgrime, 1599. "Gay" here means "fine, beautiful, noble, excellent".
 

"The concord of brethren and agreeing of brethren is a gay thing."

-- H. Latimer, "Most Faithful Sermon before King's Majesty", 1550. Oxford English Dictionary. "Gay" here means "good".
 

"If an Amish young man enters the outside world—what they call ‘going gay’—his father is relieved of the obligation of providing a farm for that son."

-- Washington Post, 9 Nov., 1969. Oxford English Dictionary. "Gay" here describes "a person who has ceased adhering to the plain and simple life or beliefs of the community", usually Amish, Quaker, or some other fairly strict religious community.

[FatherGiryus]

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

[TheMathematician]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

[Schultz]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

By Jove, I think you've got it, ma'am! 

[tweety234]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

wrong analogy but here it is:

1st is God.
2nd is the devil.

Does that mean, I am sexually attracted to the 1st? certainly not. I am just grossed out by the 2nd.

[William]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

lol

Antonis, don't apologize.

[Michał Kalina]

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

Fr, I still can't get are you joking or are you serious.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

I guess I am gay when I am not sad, angry or worried.

That's queer!

Isn't it?

[FatherGiryus]

I sent you an invite.  You can see the pictures for yourself.  I don't joke about sausage.

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

Fr, I still can't get are you joking or are you serious.

[yeshuaisiam]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

[yeshuaisiam]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

No they are not the same looking.

But I absolutely find neither attractive nor "pleasing" to look at.
The guy with the teefers looks hilarious.    cool beans to him.
I equally 100% would NOT be gay with either.

If I had a gun pointed to my head and to my children's heads and said 'be gay with one or I'll shoot', I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

Perhaps I phrased this the wrong way.  I identify as gay, as I am far more sexually and romantically attracted to males than to females.  I don't, however, participate in the actual sex part of homosexuality.  I don't know if I really believe it to be a sin or not, but I know what the Bible says.  Relationships aren't at the forefront of my mind right now, so I have no problem being a Christian and homosexual (I just don't participate in the "sexual" part of it. )

[NicholasMyra]

I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made.  

Hey. If you can't get out of sleeping in the bed you've made, there's no hope for the rest of us!

I am continually impressed by how you've developed into such a sane and decent person, Trevor. I mean that.

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.

There's a difference between self denial and denial.  One is Christian, the other not.

[SolEX01]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

Perhaps I phrased this the wrong way.  I identify as gay, as I am far more sexually and romantically attracted to males than to females.  I don't, however, participate in the actual sex part of homosexuality.  I don't know if I really believe it to be a sin or not, but I know what the Bible says.  Relationships aren't at the forefront of my mind right now, so I have no problem being a Christian and homosexual (I just don't participate in the "sexual" part of it. )

You are a celibate homosexual which is OK in Episcopalian Church and OK in Orthodox or Roman Catholic Churches.  You're not the only celibate homosexual on this forum; however, you can continue to pray and meditate on whether the "sexual" part of homosexual remains a sin.  If you want, you can share what the Episcopal Church has to say about "sexual" part of homosexuality.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

I am continually impressed by how you've developed into such a sane and decent person, Trevor. I mean that.

Thanks!  I like to think that I'm a bit more mature. 

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

If you want, you can share what the Episcopal Church has to say about "sexual" part of homosexuality.

I am certain that everyone here knows that already, my friend. 

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

[augustin717]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

My thoughts exactly. kinda lame.

[Michał Kalina]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

My thoughts exactly. kinda lame.

+3

[Punch]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

Probably because you have no idea of what it means.  Given your supporters, I am further convinced, given their usual lack of depth and ignorance of subtlety.  However, in their case it is probably difference in culture and a lack of full understanding of our language.  I don't know what your problem is.

[William]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

[orthonorm]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

+n

Can we stop the adding?

[JamesR]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

[orthonorm]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

Probably because you have no idea of what it means.  Given your supporters, I am further convinced, given their usual lack of depth and ignorance of subtlety.  However, in their case it is probably difference in culture and a lack of full understanding of our language.  I don't know what your problem is.

Every guy who has problems with his sexuality has used this line.

Lesbian trapped in a man's body . . .

Do you drive a Subaru Outback with a Coexist! sticker?

[orthonorm]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

Nice James!

[orthonorm]

NVM!

[Cavaradossi]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready. Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith. But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

[William]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready. Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith. But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

You know it is possible to disagree with people without grossly distorting what they have said.

Encouraging people to come back to the Church ASAP is not imprudent. And I can bust out the saints' quotes if I really have to on this one.

[genesisone]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

[JamesR]

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready.

He should come back whether he likes it or not. I may be one of the worst, slothful, perverted sinners out there with doubts who openly attacks God's Church when I am angry, but I have never apostated (sp?) from it but always continued going and trying as hard as I could to submit to it and accept treatment. Also, just because God has been merciful enough to allow us to return back whenever, that doesn't mean we should take advantage of it. Orthodoxy is not a minimalist religion like Protestantism. We have to honor the grace God has given us. That's like living a total life of sin and just saying "Oh well, I'll just go to Confession right before I die and I'm good". I don't think it works like that buddy.

Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

I never said they couldn't come back. I only said they shouldn't take it for granted because that's a sign of pride.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith.

Do you know anything about my faith? I've probably faced more serious struggles in it than most of you have. Let's see how many of you converted in adolescence while still dependent upon and living with a heterodox family and have stayed faithful the whole time. I'm not saying I'm a perfect Saint or anything, but I also wouldn't say that I've never struggled. The only difference is I've never apostated.

But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

Telling someone they shouldn't leave the Church--the hospital for the sinners--is not prudent?

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

Oh absolutely.  But I seriously doubted that Punch and Gebre were coming out as transexuals, on the forum (though guys, or ladies if you prefer, I will offer you my full support if you do).

[JamesR]

At the apartment complex I live at, the tenent who lives above me is a man who underwent a sex change about twenty years ago. He's been a good friend of my paternal grandparents--who live at the same complex--for about ten years now. I have to say, I feel a bit bad for him. No one in his family talks to him really anymore except for his daughter--and even she lives out of state, and he's been single forever. Surprisingly he's extremely kind, helpful and watches our apartment for us when we are gone. On the other hand, the homosexual man who lives a few doors down is very rude, unkind and downright mean. Then again, he's going through some difficult times. His "partner" of like 30 years is going through some serious health problems and is probably going to be dying anytime now.

[Cavaradossi]

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready.

He should come back whether he likes it or not. I may be one of the worst, slothful, perverted sinners out there with doubts who openly attacks God's Church when I am angry, but I have never apostated (sp?) from it but always continued going and trying as hard as I could to submit to it and accept treatment. Also, just because God has been merciful enough to allow us to return back whenever, that doesn't mean we should take advantage of it. Orthodoxy is not a minimalist religion like Protestantism. We have to honor the grace God has given us. That's like living a total life of sin and just saying "Oh well, I'll just go to Confession right before I die and I'm good". I don't think it works like that buddy.

Well, then you should study the scriptures more, because if that person sincerely repented, that is exactly how it works.

Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

I never said they couldn't come back. I only said they shouldn't take it for granted because that's a sign of pride.

What they should not take for granted is that they will have time to repent, not whether or not God will accept genuine repentance. This is granted freely of God, for if it were not, we would all be condemned.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith.

Do you know anything about my faith? I've probably faced more serious struggles in it than most of you have. Let's see how many of you converted in adolescence while still dependent upon and living with a heterodox family and have stayed faithful the whole time. I'm not saying I'm a perfect Saint or anything, but I also wouldn't say that I've never struggled. The only difference is I've never apostated.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47021.0.html

But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

Telling someone they shouldn't leave the Church--the hospital for the sinners--is not prudent?

In the manner that you did? Yes.

[yeshuaisiam]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

LOL!!!!!

Some people say she's a hermaphrodite.  Apparently, there is proof somewhere.  I'm sure you can google it.

[JamesR]

Well, then you should study the scriptures more, because if that person sincerely repented, that is exactly how it works.

Living with that twisted disposition, taking your time for granted along with taking God's mercy for granted and using it as an excuse to live in sin until the end does not seem like genuine repentance to me. That's just using God as insurance before you die.

What they should not take for granted is that they will have time to repent, not whether or not God will accept genuine repentance. This is granted freely of God, for if it were not, we would all be condemned.

Of course God will accept genuine repentance, I'm not saying that He won't. I just think that to live your life and sin and come back when YOU are ready--like a drunken husband leaving his family as he pleases and coming back whenever he wants--is prideful, disrespectful and certainly should be avoided.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47021.0.html

Still didn't apostate. I may have been angry and blasphemous, but I still attended the Church even in all of my doubt and voiced my concerns to my Priest and overtime overcame them (thanks to God).

In the manner that you did? Yes.

What manner? The true manner? Just because I didn't use the pseudo-ecumenical "it's okay doesn't matter go freely into error" approach?

[Asteriktos]

Still didn't apostate.

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

[JamesR]

Still didn't apostate.

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

Thank you! I've been looking for the clarification for a long time but no one gets these Orthodox words.

[Theophan_C]

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

Thank you! I've been looking for the clarification for a long time but no one gets these Orthodox words.

muslims have apostates too (briefly), then they kill them. 

[Shanghaiski]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

- I am not repelled by pictures of some handsome males, I sometimes enjoy looking at males I consider handsome (in aesthetic way, not in the pornographic one)
- I do not share some typical male hobbies or interests (motorisation, team sports etc.)
- I like music associated with gay culture (Village People, TomBoy, Culture Club...) and glam rock.
- I support gay rights (civil uniions, child adoption etc.) provided they do not try to reach religious institutions.
- Some of my friends asked me or my other friends whether I'm gay.

- On the other hand I am sexually attracted to females, hence the 20%.

Thank you for this, Father. I wish you a very joyful house-blessing season!

[Shanghaiski]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

There is much good that comes to us through learning to say no to our desires, whatever they may be, my friend. We all have our crosses given us by God, but He has provided His grace to help us. He doesn't give us anything greater than what we can handle with His help.

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