are you gay?

[tweety234]

How does your priest treat you? and how do you feel? Just curious.

[Andrew Crook]

I am not gay, I do like women -- but I have told my priest about feelings of same sex attraction in the past.  He has never treated me any differently from anyone else.  The fact of the matter is, many people have this urgent need to be accepted due to their sexuality and this is a mistaken approach.  The religion of the "Self" which has promoted the increase in secularism, and moral relativism in today's age has got to stop at some point. 

[Tallitot]

How does your priest treat you? and how do you feel? Just curious.

yes.

How does your priest treat you?

don't have a priest, my rabbi's ok with it.

and how do you feel?

I feel fine, how do you feel?

[Punch]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

[Asteriktos]

I'm not gay, but I doubt I'd be treated much differently than I am now if I was.

[Cyrillic]

I'd be gay for you, necromancer.

[Alpo]

I'm not gay but I'd be disappointed if no one didn't suspect me as such.

[biro]

I'm not gay.

[Michał Kalina]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

[Arachne]

Gay? Dude. I'm a professional cynic, moonlighting as a pessimist.

My priest might have to remind me to tone down the snark.

[biro]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Bad joke:

When does someone realize they're gay?

- After about six beers.

(end bad joke)

 

[Michał Kalina]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Bad joke:

When does someone realize they're gay?

- After about six beers.

(end bad joke)

 

Maybe bad as a joke but quite true.

[Alpo]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

What makes you think so? I've never really understood what people mean when saying that everyone's a bit gay. Do they perhaps mean that their liver is sexually attracted to people of same sex as they are while their kidneys are not?

[Michał Kalina]

- I am not repelled by pictures of some handsome males, I sometimes enjoy looking at males I consider handsome (in aesthetic way, not in the pornographic one)
- I do not share some typical male hobbies or interests (motorisation, team sports etc.)
- I like music associated with gay culture (Village People, TomBoy, Culture Club...) and glam rock.
- I support gay rights (civil uniions, child adoption etc.) provided they do not try to reach religious institutions.
- Some of my friends asked me or my other friends whether I'm gay.

- On the other hand I am sexually attracted to females, hence the 20%.

[Asteriktos]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

[Alpo]

Michal,

none of those make you gay.

[Michał Kalina]

Michal,

none of those make you gay.

I know the only one thing is a penis' trigger.

[Alpo]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

I prefer to say that I am a curious heterosexual.

[Jetavan]

Hetero sapiens neanderthalensis

[JamesRottnek]

Michal,

none of those make you gay.

Read Freud some time, and his theories on bisexuality.

[Alpo]

Michal,

none of those make you gay.

Read Freud some time, and his theories on bisexuality.

I'm sorry but that sounds pretty much like suggesting reading Newton's theories about physics and Lamarck's theories about evolution. Assuming that they were scientific to begin with, a bit outdated.

[Andrew Crook]

Michal,

none of those make you gay.

I know the only one thing is a penis' trigger.

     Even then, I'm still not convinced.  If you concentrate on anything with enough focus... that can happen. Does it mean that you're attracted to what you're focusing on? Not necessarily.

[That person]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Bad joke:

When does someone realize they're gay?

- After about six beers.

(end bad joke)

 

Totally misread that word.

[JamesRottnek]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Bad joke:

When does someone realize they're gay?

- After about six beers.

(end bad joke)

 

Totally misread that word.

I know what you thought that word was...

[tweety234]

How does your priest treat you? and how do you feel? Just curious.

yes.

How does your priest treat you?

don't have a priest, my rabbi's ok with it.

and how do you feel?

I feel fine, how do you feel?

I meant how do you feel about the way they treat you. But you said that your rabbi is ok with it. Therefore I suppose you are ok with it too. Thanks for answering.

[tweety234]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

if you feel like a lesbian in a man's buddy. That means you are straight. Because lesbians are attracted to women not men.

[tweety234]

I'd be gay for you, necromancer.

forget it. I am straight. 100+%

[That person]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

if you feel like a lesbian in a man's buddy. That means you are straight. Because lesbians are attracted to women not men.

I believe that would make Punch gay and transgender. Dunno if they were being serious here.

[tweety234]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

What makes you think so? I've never really understood what people mean when saying that everyone's a bit gay. Do they perhaps mean that their liver is sexually attracted to people of same sex as they are while their kidneys are not?

since we all have both male and female hormones. That actually makes us bisexuals though, not Gay. People are born bisexuals in my opinion. Not Gay. But then again. That is subjective.

[tweety234]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

meaning? are you open to suggestions?

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

if you feel like a lesbian in a man's buddy. That means you are straight. Because lesbians are attracted to women not men.

I believe that would make Punch gay and transgender.

Indeed it does.

[theistgal]

I don't know why this struck me as funny but when I refreshed my "Unread Posts" page, the first thread title was "Can I wear a robe to the Divine Liturgy?" followed by this one.

[JamesRottnek]

I don't know why this struck me as funny but when I refreshed my "Unread Posts" page, the first thread title was "Can I wear a robe to the Divine Liturgy?" followed by this one.

It is a sign from God: Gays are to wear robes at the Liturgy.

[Punch]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

if you feel like a lesbian in a man's buddy. That means you are straight. Because lesbians are attracted to women not men.

Yes, but where does my love for flowered tea cups, fancy stationary and dislike of men and sports fit into this.

[FormerReformer]

I don't know why this struck me as funny but when I refreshed my "Unread Posts" page, the first thread title was "Can I wear a robe to the Divine Liturgy?" followed by this one.

It is a sign from God: Gays are to wear robes at the Liturgy.

So millions of the "Anglo-Catholic" element in the main Anglo-Saxon churches will attest (tEc, Canada, and of course England). 

[Kerdy]

Sometimes I am, but sometimes I have a bad day, so not as much then.  Usually, I am not because I tend to be on the grumpy side.  I have surprised a few people now and again when I show up chipper and spry.

What?  Ooohh!  You mean the fake definition of the word.   

......no

[JamesRottnek]

Sometimes I am, but sometimes I have a bad day, so not as much then.  Usually, I am not because I tend to be on the grumpy side.  I have surprised a few people now and again when I show up chipper and spry.

What?  Ooohh!  You mean the fake definition of the word.   

......no

"Fake definition of the word."  Really?  What will it take to convince you that THE MEANING OF A WORD CAN CHANGE?

[yeshuaisiam]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Sorry brother, but you are going to have to speak for yourself on that one.

I can absolutely say I am 0% gay without a doubt in my mind.
I do not see "attractive males" or look at their photos where I don't mind...  I can't depict really.   On Yahoo sometimes I see stuff posted as "the new sexiest man" and a photo on their main site... I'm like huh?  How can they see this?

I am grossed out by gay anything.  Males holding hands even (in a gay fashion).  Hugs that are just not manly at the wrong time.  There are even certain gestures gay men make that weird me out (how their eyes want to eat me - LOL).

Typical male stuff isn't needed.  I like motors okay... Not a nascar guy or anything.  Sports don't watch them.  I do have go-karts that I fix with my sons.  We also chunk axes at wood chunks... I guess those are kind of manly.  We shoot guns, BB/Pellet & real guns around here.   I don't mind helping out my wife with knitting on occasion if she needs it.  I also like to cook, which I guess can be male or female interest.

I can truly say that I have never once been attracted or felt attraction to a male.

My sense of style is nil.   I'd wear a hole filled T-Shirt and ancient jeans if my wife would let me.   I can't stand shopping for clothes, and will wear whatever she buys for me just to save myself the torture of clothes shopping.

A real hell for me would be an endless landscape of clothing racks, shoe racks, fabric bolts, and fashion accessories... for eternity...  Like an endless Macy's with racks to a vanishing point.    

[Hiwot]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

[orthonorm]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

[dzheremi]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Perhaps he thinks if he admits that a man is good looking, then people will wonder if he's gay? I dunno if I've got it wrong, but from what I've always been told, it seems like being gay has to do with who you are physically attracted to, not who you can see as attractive (in the sense of 'so-and-so looks good today'). For instance, I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it. Alright, a weird example, but you see the distinction, I hope...

[Hiwot]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Perhaps he thinks if he admits that a man is good looking, then people will wonder if he's gay? I dunno if I've got it wrong, but from what I've always been told, it seems like being gay has to do with who you are physically attracted to, not who you can see as attractive (in the sense of 'so-and-so looks good today'). For instance, I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it. Alright, a weird example, but you see the distinction, I hope...

indeed. which is why I said to myself me thinks the lady protests too much.

[orthonorm]

I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it

I don't understand you.

[orthonorm]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Perhaps he thinks if he admits that a man is good looking, then people will wonder if he's gay? I dunno if I've got it wrong, but from what I've always been told, it seems like being gay has to do with who you are physically attracted to, not who you can see as attractive (in the sense of 'so-and-so looks good today'). For instance, I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it. Alright, a weird example, but you see the distinction, I hope...

indeed. which is why I said to myself me thinks the lady protests too much.

Calling YIM a lady is no way to get his bloom to blossom.

One must coax these things out carefully.

[dzheremi]

I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it

I don't understand you.

Ditto.

[Ashman618]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Perhaps he thinks if he admits that a man is good looking, then people will wonder if he's gay? I dunno if I've got it wrong, but from what I've always been told, it seems like being gay has to do with who you are physically attracted to, not who you can see as attractive (in the sense of 'so-and-so looks good today'). For instance, I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it. Alright, a weird example, but you see the distinction, I hope...

I like to make love to paintings, a nice Norman Rockwell always does the trick.

[Alpo]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

[orthonorm]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

Outside joke.

[yeshuaisiam]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

[yeshuaisiam]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

Outside joke.

How do gays have children? 
"Their".  ? 

[Jetavan]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

Outside joke.

How do gays have children? 

You see, there are these cells called gametes....

[yeshuaisiam]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Perhaps he thinks if he admits that a man is good looking, then people will wonder if he's gay? I dunno if I've got it wrong, but from what I've always been told, it seems like being gay has to do with who you are physically attracted to, not who you can see as attractive (in the sense of 'so-and-so looks good today'). For instance, I find Monet's Waterlily Pond to be very aesthetically pleasing, but I don't want to have sex with it. Alright, a weird example, but you see the distinction, I hope...

If I admitted it, I would be lying.  I really don't find men attractive.   I mean at ALL.  Zero percent.

[yeshuaisiam]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

Outside joke.

How do gays have children? 

You see, there are these cells called gametes....

LOL.  nice.

[That person]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

Weird. I mean, I personally have no desire to sleep with Tom Brady or Henry Cavill or Micah Kinnard or any man who's starred in a Marvel Studios film, but I totally get why other people would.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

I guess I am gay when I am not sad, angry or worried.

[orthonorm]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

I guess I am gay when I am not sad, angry or worried.

That's queer!

[tweety234]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

why do you think that? if that is the case though, I think every kid would feel that his life is a  blessing if he was raised by gay people.

[orthonorm]

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

why do you think that? if that is the case though, I think every kid would feel that his life is a  blessing if he was raised by gay people.

I think gays are less likely to hit their kids.

Why?

Outside joke.

[FatherGiryus]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

- I am not repelled by pictures of some handsome males, I sometimes enjoy looking at males I consider handsome (in aesthetic way, not in the pornographic one)
- I do not share some typical male hobbies or interests (motorisation, team sports etc.)
- I like music associated with gay culture (Village People, TomBoy, Culture Club...) and glam rock.
- I support gay rights (civil uniions, child adoption etc.) provided they do not try to reach religious institutions.
- Some of my friends asked me or my other friends whether I'm gay.

- On the other hand I am sexually attracted to females, hence the 20%.

[JamesR]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

[Asteriktos]

significant struggles
+
God's grace
+
perseverance
=
something extraordinary happening to you

[Jetavan]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

Resistance training means bigger, badder, stronger.

[That person]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

[WPM]

Re: are you gay?

No.

[JamesRottnek]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

[Antonis]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

Are you really happy? Because you can't be a happy person with how rude you are. Do you derive joy from deriding people? Ask Freud about that; I'm sure there's some hypersexual way he could describe it.

[FatherGiryus]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

Thank you!   

[Kerdy]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

You are not alone, but be prepared for people to say you either lie or have some sort of imaginary problem. 

[Kerdy]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

It was actually an epic success.

[Kerdy]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

There are people who reproduce naturally without sexual relations?  I know people can be born without reproductive organs, but this in no way proves anything about human sexuality anymore than being born with an extra finger.  For someone who doesn't have an interest in sex, this also implies nothing in terms of homosexuality, unless we link it to sociological foundations rather than genetic, or admit its a preference and nothing more.

The leaps people take in an effort to say something is a fact scares me.

[That person]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

There are people who reproduce naturally without sexual relations?  I know people can be born without reproductive organs, but this in no way proves anything about human sexuality anymore than being born with an extra finger.  For someone who doesn't have an interest in sex, this also implies nothing in terms of homosexuality, unless we link it to sociological foundations rather than genetic, or admit its a preference and nothing more.

The leaps people take in an effort to say something is a fact scares me.

When we talk about humans, "asexual" refers to those who lack any desire for sex, hetero, homo, zoo, or whatever.

Words can mean different things.

[Aaron M]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

Imagine having that three-tier burden and saying "yes" to the thread question.

It does (very often) make me want to join a very self-understood fundametalist type of church where all vices are categorically singled out and never tolerated (in the sense of saying something like "don't worry about it, you're only human."  Think, if the average Christian felt excruciating guilt every single time they told a white lie, or ate too much and felt uncomfortably stuffed, or walked/drove past a panhandler with a perturbed reaction, "sins" like these.)  Seriously... Misery would love company.

Not that I'm miserable all (or necessarily most) of the time.  But it can come easily, and it doesn't help that this sin is understood by traditional Christianity to be among the worst.  Yes, the Orthodox Church considers a ton of things to be grave sins (and if the Apostolic Canons were all applied, every 'minor' sin probably would feel as excruciating as homosexual or any sexual-identity disorder.)

Return to lightheartedness, please.  My point in this is to say that you should thank God you are not gay, the burdens can be lessened by Christian marriage later on.  (As for lighthearted... )

[yeshuaisiam]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

I can't imagine the hard struggle being a teen, having limitless access to pornography.   I feel for ya James.  Shun it away as far as you can brother.  That stuff messes up a LOT of men.

[yeshuaisiam]

In my mind there are not really "non sexual activities" or "non sexual hobbies" that make a person gay.

I believe a man can sew (tailor), cook (chef), etc.
I also believe a man can knit (like I said I helped my wife with that), or I hesitate to say pick out curtains (LOL).

What makes a man "part" homosexual is if he feels a lustful draw, romantically emotional draw, or physical attraction to another male.  (Or a female to a female)

Almost any "activity" can be deemed normal for men or women to do.  However, if its a group of men standing around talking about the mauve motif in a semi-contemporary bungalo.... Houston, we have a problem!

[Ashman618]

"I wish that God didn't give me hands or a mouth cuz then I wouldn't have to worry about eating this damn tree in the garden"  

Struggling again the sexual appetite is infinately hard for me, I would copulate with just about anything if not for the Grace of God

[Anastasia1]

How does your priest treat you? and how do you feel? Just curious.

I'm a Kinsey 1 (Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual) and a Klein 1 (other sex only).
Klein is more dimensional than Kinsey, so I think it is overall a better perspective of a person.

My priest knows I want to find a good man, and told me to be patient. I dislike that.   I should probably be open and put myself out there a little, but also know that God is in control and settling is not a good idea.*

How do I feel about my sexuality? Well, it would be nice if I had a slightly lower drive or at least better mental control, but learning that is a process and I have accepted and endeavored in that.  While some amount of pleasure could be derived from kissing another woman in regard to the physical contact aspect, they just don't have the parts I would want to play with when the time comes. Honestly, I was intrigued by how two women could have sex though. I mean, neither have the right parts! Yes, I have googled that. Would I try it? No! Not for me.

With regard to homosexual culture, I am quite fond of the movie Lost and Delirious, though they could do without a certain scene or two. I doubt I would be attracted to The L Word. I rather enjoy lesbian/bi chick rock**, Ani DiFranco, Diana Anaid's Love Song for a Girl, Tegan & Sara, and the fake lesbian band from a couple years ago, Tatu. I also like Cher, the show Modern Family, and used to watch Will and Grace. The role of sexuality is one's cultural/subcultural affiliations differs from their own orientation, but expresses interests and affections for things that rather require at least a measure of comfort with alternative sexualities. For homosexuals, I believe this is from an element of affinity with those who have similar experiences or things that reflect their experience of life in some way.

*Yes, I want one of those sappy romantic loves where you fit well with each other and build a mutually desired life with one another too, and maybe even someone you are attracted to. Crazy, huh?

**Sue me. I'm a counter-culture wanna-be intellectual who should have been more of a rebel with better discipline back in the day and plays out her detachment or desire for detachment from society or what not in her choice of aesthetics and entertainment, particularly with music.

[Antonis]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

Because I can't modify my original post, forgive me for my outburst James.

[Kerdy]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

There are people who reproduce naturally without sexual relations?  I know people can be born without reproductive organs, but this in no way proves anything about human sexuality anymore than being born with an extra finger.  For someone who doesn't have an interest in sex, this also implies nothing in terms of homosexuality, unless we link it to sociological foundations rather than genetic, or admit its a preference and nothing more.

The leaps people take in an effort to say something is a fact scares me.

When we talk about humans, "asexual" refers to those who lack any desire for sex, hetero, homo, zoo, or whatever.

Words can mean different things.

I addressed that in my post.  Additionally, words lose their meaning when their meaning can mean anything.

EDIT:  from the definition you provided, I think another word for asexual would be "wife".

[Punch]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

There are people who reproduce naturally without sexual relations?  I know people can be born without reproductive organs, but this in no way proves anything about human sexuality anymore than being born with an extra finger.  For someone who doesn't have an interest in sex, this also implies nothing in terms of homosexuality, unless we link it to sociological foundations rather than genetic, or admit its a preference and nothing more.

The leaps people take in an effort to say something is a fact scares me.

When we talk about humans, "asexual" refers to those who lack any desire for sex, hetero, homo, zoo, or whatever.

Words can mean different things.

I addressed that in my post.  Additionally, words lose their meaning when their meaning can mean anything.

EDIT:  from the definition you provided, I think another word for asexual would be "wife".

I just came close to ruining my keyboard with the soda that I was drinking.  Through the nose no less.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

[Michał Kalina]

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

[Achronos]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

Are you really happy? Because you can't be a happy person with how rude you are. Do you derive joy from deriding people? Ask Freud about that; I'm sure there's some hypersexual way he could describe it.

"Wow!"

[JamesR]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

[Hiwot]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

Weird. I mean, I personally have no desire to sleep with Tom Brady or Henry Cavill or Micah Kinnard or any man who's starred in a Marvel Studios film, but I totally get why other people would.

Weird indeed. I find the notion that ones mind can process , interpret and comprehend say for example symmetry, form, harmony, and proportion all aesthetic values in one gender and yet suddenly becomes incapable of doing the same in another by the virtue of  it belonging to a certain gender one is in, quite difficult to grasp. what yashua is referring is being sexually attracted to the aesthetically pleasing object, however what we are speaking of is the ability to perceive the aesthetic value of the object being observed in this case the human form. artists, from painters to sculptors to photographers to poets, philosophers, religious icnographers and yes even the Scribes of the Bible ( describing Absalom as the most beautiful male in Israel, and David describing his brothers as more beautiful than him physically, his son Solomon in his Canticle of Canticles describes aesthetic beauty of the male and female variety in a poetic rendering just to point a few) they all were capable of seeing and comprehending the aesthetic value of the person they were observing be it in the same gender they were in or not, without necessarily feeling the need to copulate with the one they found aesthetically pleasing.

it would be a strange world if one can not perceive the aesthetics of the same gender's form without being sexually attracted to them. for that matter it would be  stranger still if we have to feel sexually attracted to every opposite sex we find aesthetically pleasing.

in any case, @ yashua, I believe you believe your claim to be true to yourself. and in so much as it refers to you not being attracted to the same gender when you are referring to aesthetics,  I agree with you as recognizing aesthetics does not necessarily translate into sexual attraction. however in so far as a person capable of perceiving form harmony proportion etc suddenly becoming bereft of the ability due to gender differences, I will respectfully disagree. the desired 0% summation could have been reached without going to such extremes in my opinion, yet the fact being to the contrary is instructive to say the least.

[Cavaradossi]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Maybe 20%. I think everyone is at least a bit.

Bad joke:

When does someone realize they're gay?

- After about six beers.

(end bad joke)

 

 

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

[Alpo]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

[Alpo]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

Liberals might have liberal convertitis.

[Ebor]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

Liberals might have liberal convertitis.

In that case, I find the liberal strain of convertitis much more tolerable than it's conservative counterpart.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

Sherry, pork pies, and inter-parish get togethers to watch Downton Abbey and Doctor Who on the BBC.

[Ebor]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

Sherry, pork pies, and inter-parish get togethers to watch Downton Abbey and Doctor Who on the BBC.

What?  No Cricket? 
And I've never seen a port pie at my parish.. lots of other good cooking but not that. 

What about singing all the verses on hymns?   

[Jetavan]

"The learned man hath got the Lady gay."

--   Shakespeare et al., The Passionate Pilgrime, 1599. "Gay" here means "fine, beautiful, noble, excellent".
 

"The concord of brethren and agreeing of brethren is a gay thing."

-- H. Latimer, "Most Faithful Sermon before King's Majesty", 1550. Oxford English Dictionary. "Gay" here means "good".
 

"If an Amish young man enters the outside world—what they call ‘going gay’—his father is relieved of the obligation of providing a farm for that son."

-- Washington Post, 9 Nov., 1969. Oxford English Dictionary. "Gay" here describes "a person who has ceased adhering to the plain and simple life or beliefs of the community", usually Amish, Quaker, or some other fairly strict religious community.

[FatherGiryus]

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

[TheMathematician]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

[Schultz]

Nice to see you posting again, trevor.

it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis,"

Episcopals don't have convertitis? Why not?

Episcopalians do, but in such a liberal environment I find it difficult to be taken away with it. 

I'm trying to imagine what Anglican Convertitis might be like.  Having been one for more than 35 years, it's taking some pondering.  Adapting a British accent maybe?  Precise pronunciation of ending consonants while singing hymns?  Sherry?

   

By Jove, I think you've got it, ma'am! 

[tweety234]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

wrong analogy but here it is:

1st is God.
2nd is the devil.

Does that mean, I am sexually attracted to the 1st? certainly not. I am just grossed out by the 2nd.

[William]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

This was an epic fail of a post.

lol

Antonis, don't apologize.

[Michał Kalina]

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

Fr, I still can't get are you joking or are you serious.

[Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)]

I'm 0% gay, but I am heteroflexible. 

I guess I am gay when I am not sad, angry or worried.

That's queer!

Isn't it?

[FatherGiryus]

I sent you an invite.  You can see the pictures for yourself.  I don't joke about sausage.

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

Fr, I still can't get are you joking or are you serious.

[yeshuaisiam]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

[yeshuaisiam]

yeshua, you do not aesthetically speaking at least see or recognise though superficial it may be the beauty or the lack thereof in the same gender?

Nope.   I understand that females can find men attractive.  But as for me, one man is the same as the next.   I know what others say though and I believe them in their own testimony... but really I don't see it. 

So, what you are saying is, that this man


is the same looking to you as this man?

No they are not the same looking.

But I absolutely find neither attractive nor "pleasing" to look at.
The guy with the teefers looks hilarious.    cool beans to him.
I equally 100% would NOT be gay with either.

If I had a gun pointed to my head and to my children's heads and said 'be gay with one or I'll shoot', I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

Perhaps I phrased this the wrong way.  I identify as gay, as I am far more sexually and romantically attracted to males than to females.  I don't, however, participate in the actual sex part of homosexuality.  I don't know if I really believe it to be a sin or not, but I know what the Bible says.  Relationships aren't at the forefront of my mind right now, so I have no problem being a Christian and homosexual (I just don't participate in the "sexual" part of it. )

[NicholasMyra]

I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made.  

Hey. If you can't get out of sleeping in the bed you've made, there's no hope for the rest of us!

I am continually impressed by how you've developed into such a sane and decent person, Trevor. I mean that.

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.

There's a difference between self denial and denial.  One is Christian, the other not.

[SolEX01]

Yes, I am. 

My Orthodox priest treated me with nothing but fatherly love, and I've gotten the same treatment from the Episcopal priests at the Church I've been attending. 

I feel swell.  I actually left the Orthodox Church over this because I thought that I couldn't be gay and Orthodox.  I was am mess, and I was extremely immature about things.  I miss the Church so much.  I'll probably go back (not making any moves to join the Episcopal Church,) but for now I need to be away and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God. 

I'm better with being gay now, and I see it as not a big deal.  Goodness, though, I handled it the wrong way.  I wish I never would've left the Church.  I suppose I have to sleep in the bed I've made. 

I'm not attacking you personally, but I am very surprised you can accept this and be a Christian.
I'm sure you know that the Lord has called the sexual acts between gay people an abomination (assuming you participate in them).

Perhaps I phrased this the wrong way.  I identify as gay, as I am far more sexually and romantically attracted to males than to females.  I don't, however, participate in the actual sex part of homosexuality.  I don't know if I really believe it to be a sin or not, but I know what the Bible says.  Relationships aren't at the forefront of my mind right now, so I have no problem being a Christian and homosexual (I just don't participate in the "sexual" part of it. )

You are a celibate homosexual which is OK in Episcopalian Church and OK in Orthodox or Roman Catholic Churches.  You're not the only celibate homosexual on this forum; however, you can continue to pray and meditate on whether the "sexual" part of homosexual remains a sin.  If you want, you can share what the Episcopal Church has to say about "sexual" part of homosexuality.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

I am continually impressed by how you've developed into such a sane and decent person, Trevor. I mean that.

Thanks!  I like to think that I'm a bit more mature. 

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

If you want, you can share what the Episcopal Church has to say about "sexual" part of homosexuality.

I am certain that everyone here knows that already, my friend. 

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

[augustin717]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

My thoughts exactly. kinda lame.

[Michał Kalina]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

My thoughts exactly. kinda lame.

+3

[Punch]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

Probably because you have no idea of what it means.  Given your supporters, I am further convinced, given their usual lack of depth and ignorance of subtlety.  However, in their case it is probably difference in culture and a lack of full understanding of our language.  I don't know what your problem is.

[William]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

[orthonorm]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

+n

Can we stop the adding?

[JamesR]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

[orthonorm]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

Probably because you have no idea of what it means.  Given your supporters, I am further convinced, given their usual lack of depth and ignorance of subtlety.  However, in their case it is probably difference in culture and a lack of full understanding of our language.  I don't know what your problem is.

Every guy who has problems with his sexuality has used this line.

Lesbian trapped in a man's body . . .

Do you drive a Subaru Outback with a Coexist! sticker?

[orthonorm]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

Nice James!

[orthonorm]

NVM!

[Cavaradossi]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready. Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith. But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

[William]

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

Some highfallutin words there (especially for someone who once did something remarkably similar). Reading your postings lately, James, I'm not so sure that you have faith in the mercy of God, especially since you claim that those who leave God cannot simply come back whenever they are ready.

...but for now I need to be away [From the Church] and think about the person I'm becoming and how I want to relate to God.

No offense, but that's spiritual suicide. There is no way to properly "understand the person" you are becoming and how to "relate to God" without the guidance of the Church. Attempting to do so without it is spiritual suicide and a sign of inner pride--thinking that one needs their space from God as if they could leave Him and come back whenever they want--and believing that you yourself could make a better decision in regards to these questions than God can through His Church.

I'm not claiming I need my space from God.  I am closer to God.  After all, He is everywhere and fills all things.  I am feeling more in touch with Christ my Lord now more than ever.  I am away from the Orthodox Church.  I am attending an Episcopal Church and seeing how that is.  I like it very much.  The people are kind and accepting.  While I might not agree with each and every thing that TEC stands for, it's been really good for me to be in a Church where I can't catch "convertitis," and merely focus on Christ.

Please try not to judge me.  I recall you going through some sort of journey like mine.  I'm just trying to find God.  We may differ on our opinions of where the best place to find Him is, but one thing we have in common is that we're all on a journey.  I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

Except, for once, James' post is correct and insightful.

James did not do something "remarkably similar" or go through the "same sort of journey." He took the advice is currently offering; he has always confronted his problems head on, kept going to church that week, confessing and talking to his priest.

Coming at the eleventh hour is forgiven when it happens. That doesn't mean you encourage people to start their shift then.

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready. Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith. But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

You know it is possible to disagree with people without grossly distorting what they have said.

Encouraging people to come back to the Church ASAP is not imprudent. And I can bust out the saints' quotes if I really have to on this one.

[genesisone]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

[JamesR]

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready.

He should come back whether he likes it or not. I may be one of the worst, slothful, perverted sinners out there with doubts who openly attacks God's Church when I am angry, but I have never apostated (sp?) from it but always continued going and trying as hard as I could to submit to it and accept treatment. Also, just because God has been merciful enough to allow us to return back whenever, that doesn't mean we should take advantage of it. Orthodoxy is not a minimalist religion like Protestantism. We have to honor the grace God has given us. That's like living a total life of sin and just saying "Oh well, I'll just go to Confession right before I die and I'm good". I don't think it works like that buddy.

Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

I never said they couldn't come back. I only said they shouldn't take it for granted because that's a sign of pride.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith.

Do you know anything about my faith? I've probably faced more serious struggles in it than most of you have. Let's see how many of you converted in adolescence while still dependent upon and living with a heterodox family and have stayed faithful the whole time. I'm not saying I'm a perfect Saint or anything, but I also wouldn't say that I've never struggled. The only difference is I've never apostated.

But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

Telling someone they shouldn't leave the Church--the hospital for the sinners--is not prudent?

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

Oh absolutely.  But I seriously doubted that Punch and Gebre were coming out as transexuals, on the forum (though guys, or ladies if you prefer, I will offer you my full support if you do).

[JamesR]

At the apartment complex I live at, the tenent who lives above me is a man who underwent a sex change about twenty years ago. He's been a good friend of my paternal grandparents--who live at the same complex--for about ten years now. I have to say, I feel a bit bad for him. No one in his family talks to him really anymore except for his daughter--and even she lives out of state, and he's been single forever. Surprisingly he's extremely kind, helpful and watches our apartment for us when we are gone. On the other hand, the homosexual man who lives a few doors down is very rude, unkind and downright mean. Then again, he's going through some difficult times. His "partner" of like 30 years is going through some serious health problems and is probably going to be dying anytime now.

[Cavaradossi]

You just said it yourself, one can come back whenever he is ready.

He should come back whether he likes it or not. I may be one of the worst, slothful, perverted sinners out there with doubts who openly attacks God's Church when I am angry, but I have never apostated (sp?) from it but always continued going and trying as hard as I could to submit to it and accept treatment. Also, just because God has been merciful enough to allow us to return back whenever, that doesn't mean we should take advantage of it. Orthodoxy is not a minimalist religion like Protestantism. We have to honor the grace God has given us. That's like living a total life of sin and just saying "Oh well, I'll just go to Confession right before I die and I'm good". I don't think it works like that buddy.

Well, then you should study the scriptures more, because if that person sincerely repented, that is exactly how it works.

Whether it is prudent to do something like that (when we do not know when the end is) is irrelevant to the falsehood of the statement that people cannot come back whenever they want.

I never said they couldn't come back. I only said they shouldn't take it for granted because that's a sign of pride.

What they should not take for granted is that they will have time to repent, not whether or not God will accept genuine repentance. This is granted freely of God, for if it were not, we would all be condemned.

It is seriously wonderful that the two of you are apparently so perfect in the ascetic pursuit that you do not face serious struggles in your faith.

Do you know anything about my faith? I've probably faced more serious struggles in it than most of you have. Let's see how many of you converted in adolescence while still dependent upon and living with a heterodox family and have stayed faithful the whole time. I'm not saying I'm a perfect Saint or anything, but I also wouldn't say that I've never struggled. The only difference is I've never apostated.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47021.0.html

But your statements are reckless and lacking in any sort of prudence.

Telling someone they shouldn't leave the Church--the hospital for the sinners--is not prudent?

In the manner that you did? Yes.

[yeshuaisiam]

I would have to flip a quarter, because sex with any man is 100% gross.

Even Lady GaGa? 

LOL!!!!!

Some people say she's a hermaphrodite.  Apparently, there is proof somewhere.  I'm sure you can google it.

[JamesR]

Well, then you should study the scriptures more, because if that person sincerely repented, that is exactly how it works.

Living with that twisted disposition, taking your time for granted along with taking God's mercy for granted and using it as an excuse to live in sin until the end does not seem like genuine repentance to me. That's just using God as insurance before you die.

What they should not take for granted is that they will have time to repent, not whether or not God will accept genuine repentance. This is granted freely of God, for if it were not, we would all be condemned.

Of course God will accept genuine repentance, I'm not saying that He won't. I just think that to live your life and sin and come back when YOU are ready--like a drunken husband leaving his family as he pleases and coming back whenever he wants--is prideful, disrespectful and certainly should be avoided.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,47021.0.html

Still didn't apostate. I may have been angry and blasphemous, but I still attended the Church even in all of my doubt and voiced my concerns to my Priest and overtime overcame them (thanks to God).

In the manner that you did? Yes.

What manner? The true manner? Just because I didn't use the pseudo-ecumenical "it's okay doesn't matter go freely into error" approach?

[Asteriktos]

Still didn't apostate.

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

[JamesR]

Still didn't apostate.

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

Thank you! I've been looking for the clarification for a long time but no one gets these Orthodox words.

[Theophan_C]

FYI it's apostatize. Apostate is what you are when you apostatize. 

Thank you! I've been looking for the clarification for a long time but no one gets these Orthodox words.

muslims have apostates too (briefly), then they kill them. 

[Shanghaiski]

Dear Michał,

Masculinity is not defined by music or sports or politics or art appreciation.

I really hate this term 'homosexuality,' because it is deceptive and misses the broader point of masculinity and femininity.  That's what is the real issue: whether one can accept one's God-pleasing gender.  Sexual attraction stems from this.

Now, some people are so abused that their sexuality becomes distorted.  There are others that are born 'gender dysmorphic' and cannot accept their own gender.  Others still have a partial rejection.  Humans are indeed complicated.

When I was younger, I didn't have girlfriends (not for lack of trying, but being as awkward as I was...), wasn't into sports or cars, and spent a lot of time reading and isolating.  Some kids who were partying and sleeping around thought I was gay.

Years later, I had to take a psychological exam for a job, and the psychologist informed me that all my test score showed that I was not only definitely not gay, but would have a hard time working with either females or gay men!  While I still hate TV sports, working on cars, and all the stereotypical stuff, I have lots of other interests that are 'manly': when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Sexual attraction is a very small part of the debate about homosexuality.  I think that the 'gay rights movement' flashes its worst during 'Gap Pride' parades largely to distract heterosexuals from the real conversation about self-loathing and rejection of gender.

- I am not repelled by pictures of some handsome males, I sometimes enjoy looking at males I consider handsome (in aesthetic way, not in the pornographic one)
- I do not share some typical male hobbies or interests (motorisation, team sports etc.)
- I like music associated with gay culture (Village People, TomBoy, Culture Club...) and glam rock.
- I support gay rights (civil uniions, child adoption etc.) provided they do not try to reach religious institutions.
- Some of my friends asked me or my other friends whether I'm gay.

- On the other hand I am sexually attracted to females, hence the 20%.

Thank you for this, Father. I wish you a very joyful house-blessing season!

[Shanghaiski]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

There is much good that comes to us through learning to say no to our desires, whatever they may be, my friend. We all have our crosses given us by God, but He has provided His grace to help us. He doesn't give us anything greater than what we can handle with His help.

[Shanghaiski]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

[Shanghaiski]

Don't worry, you are young and you don't have a family to feed in the face of rising food prices.  Pork prices will be going through the roof this year.  I'm trying to save the family some money by putting up as much stuff as possible while we still can afford it.  Let's just pray for more rain this year.

Just be yourself and don't worry about what others think.  Never compare your insides to other people's outsides.

BTW, I made Kiełbasa Podhalańska, Kiełbasa Krakowska, Kiełbasa Szynkowa, & Kiełbasa Serdelowa.

when you are young, the idea of cooking is 'girly,' but when you get older and make 40 kilos of kielbasa... suddenly you are the ikon of masculinity!

Made 15 kilos before the Nativity. Not even close to 40.

All that's needed is sauerkraut and paprika and sour cream, and maybe some spaetzle, fried with onions and bacon.

[augustin717]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

That's true. Chattel slavere though used to jive til around mid-nineteen century. I'm sure most wouldn't think it jives well today unless they wanna look like total idiots

[Shanghaiski]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

That's true. Chattel slavere though used to jive til around mid-nineteen century. I'm sure most wouldn't think it jives well today unless they wanna look like total idiots

Oh, never mind.

[Kerdy]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

[That person]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

[Kerdy]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

[theistgal]

It might be funnier if you try to imagine Moe saying it to Curley.

[genesisone]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

Others have quoted what you wrote here. I still keep leaving out the "n"  .

[Schultz]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

That's true. Chattel slavere though used to jive til around mid-nineteen century. I'm sure most wouldn't think it jives well today unless they wanna look like total idiots

JiBe.  not jiVe.  JiBe.  Not being a grammar Nazi (I gave up my membership card to that party a while ago), but this one still bugs the heck out of me.  B no V.

[Schultz]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

[Jetavan]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

That's true. Chattel slavere though used to jive til around mid-nineteen century. I'm sure most wouldn't think it jives well today unless they wanna look like total idiots

 B no V.

Aren't they the same in Greek?

[orthonorm]

No, but I wish that God would have made me asexual and aromantic--that way I wouldn't have the burden of resisting lust, porn and fornication.

See, the fact that asexuals exist attests to the fact that sexual orientation isn't a choice. Why wouldn't you want to be rid of such concerns?

Father Giryus would know better, but it doesn't seem to me that "sexual orientation" is a term that jives with Orthodox anthropology.

That's true. Chattel slavere though used to jive til around mid-nineteen century. I'm sure most wouldn't think it jives well today unless they wanna look like total idiots

JiBe.  not jiVe.  JiBe.  Not being a grammar Nazi (I gave up my membership card to that party a while ago), but this one still bugs the heck out of me.  B no V.

This is no gibe on your part, especially for folks who are ESL, especially when they are as fluent and clever in English as our dear augustin is. You've just given him more ammo to be acerbically witty.

For that, we all should thank you.

(The confusion of jive, jibe, and gibe bothers me as well.)

[Asteriktos]

It ain't cool bein no jive turkey on oc.net.

[Jetavan]

Blame the British for "ain't" (and "an't"):

"'I guessed it was you, Mr Pancks,' said she, 'for it's quite your regular night; ain't it?'"
-- Charles Dickens, Little Dorrit

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

[Kerdy]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

This means its only no longer funny to you.

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

"Take my wives, but please don't take all of them." - Warren Jeffs -



Selam

[Gebre Menfes Kidus]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

Oh absolutely.  But I seriously doubted that Punch and Gebre were coming out as transexuals, on the forum (though guys, or ladies if you prefer, I will offer you my full support if you do).

Gosh, thanks for that. I hope you will offer us just as much support if we remain heterosexual. 



Selam

[JamesRottnek]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

"Take my wives, but please don't take all of them." - Warren Jeffs -



Selam

Now this was actually funny.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

It isn't necessarily a joke. I once had a pair of students (twin boys) whose biological father was undergoing a sex change. It wasn't long before I met his?her? new partner: another woman. My colleagues and I were left shaking our heads.

Oh absolutely.  But I seriously doubted that Punch and Gebre were coming out as transexuals, on the forum (though guys, or ladies if you prefer, I will offer you my full support if you do).

Gosh, thanks for that. I hope you will offer us just as much support if we remain heterosexual. 



Selam

I support your heterosexuality, Gebre! 

[Schultz]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

"Take my wives, but please don't take all of them." - Warren Jeffs -



Selam

My private law firm library gets his missives every few weeks, including a recent hardbound book that compiled a year's worth of directives from God through Jeffs.

My Jewish lesbian co-worker collects them.

[Hiwot]

I am queer as a three dollar bill.  I have spent 51 years in the hell of being a lesbian in a man's body.  My Priest is OK with it, so that is at least a plus.

I suffer from the same affliction. My priest has treated me with unconditional Christian love. However, I have been ostracized and condemned by the LGBT community.



Selam

What is it that makes people think this joke is funny?  It's tired and worn-out and wasn't very funny to begin with.

I would explain, but I don't think you would understand.

Try me.

Would you mind by starting with an explaintion of why it isn't funny.

Because it's as old and tired as, "Take my wife...please."

^This.

"Take my wives, but please don't take all of them." - Warren Jeffs -



Selam

My private law firm library gets his missives every few weeks, including a recent hardbound book that compiled a year's worth of directives from God through Jeffs.

My Jewish lesbian co-worker collects them.

ROFL!

[Hiwot]

"I wish that God didn't give me hands or a mouth cuz then I wouldn't have to worry about eating this damn tree in the garden"  

Struggling again the sexual appetite is infinately hard for me, I would copulate with just about anything if not for the Grace of God

 Just saw this, well said ashman.

[augustin717]

"I wish that God didn't give me hands or a mouth cuz then I wouldn't have to worry about eating this damn tree in the garden"  

Struggling again the sexual appetite is infinately hard for me, I would copulate with just about anything if not for the Grace of God

 Just saw this, well said ashman.

I for one tend to be more selective when it comes to copulating.

[Hiwot]

"I wish that God didn't give me hands or a mouth cuz then I wouldn't have to worry about eating this damn tree in the garden"  

Struggling again the sexual appetite is infinately hard for me, I would copulate with just about anything if not for the Grace of God

 Just saw this, well said ashman.

I for one tend to be more selective when it comes to copulating.

what can I say Augustin, I would terrify the Devil himself with what I can think up, yet remain selective as well by the Grace of God.He keeps protecting me from myself.

[augustin717]

Scaring the devil can't be that bad. Almost sounds like a good deed.

[Hiwot]

Scaring the devil can't be that bad. Almost sounds like a good deed.

hehehe Not when he becomes so sacred that he starts crossing himself when he sees me.

[augustin717]

it's better if two scare the devil instead of one.

[Hiwot]

it's better if two scare the devil instead of one.

well when you put it like that.. heck I can drink to that! hehehe

[tweety234]

Scaring the devil can't be that bad. Almost sounds like a good deed.

hehehe Not when he becomes so sacred that he starts crossing himself when he sees me.

come to my house for a week. So he can be gone at least for a week.

[Hiwot]

Scaring the devil can't be that bad. Almost sounds like a good deed.

hehehe Not when he becomes so sacred that he starts crossing himself when he sees me.

come to my house for a week. So he can be gone at least for a week.

hehehe, darkness does not chase darkness away..

on a somber note.. to address the other part of your statement.I think our serious battle is with ourselves those who have a certain mastery over themselves have by the Grace of God passed many of the traps of the adversary. They say fools rush in where angels fear to tread and I have been such a fool enough times to know of the sort of potential that lays dormant in us awaiting opportune moment. Hear what lady of the woods says here , think about what she meant..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX3px_Ivs44

[augustin717]

If you can get the devil to cross himself that's surely the first step towards that universal reconciliation creation longs for.

[Hiwot]

If you can get the devil to cross himself that's surely the first step towards that universal reconciliation creation longs for.

LOL! yeah I would have indulged in the scary stuff i can think of out of such altruistic agenda lol  but sadly the agenda itself would not be universal you see, one would be left out of that reconciliation i e. me lol how is that for the perfect plan? so I decided to give it up as a plan, oh well...lol

[tweety234]

If you can get the devil to cross himself that's surely the first step towards that universal reconciliation creation longs for.

do you think he will repent anytime soon?

[augustin717]

If you can get the devil to cross himself that's surely the first step towards that universal reconciliation creation longs for.

do you think he will repent anytime soon?

it's worth trying at least

[Ebor]

My private law firm library gets his missives every few weeks, including a recent hardbound book that compiled a year's worth of directives from God through Jeffs.

Far out.
Is it just your firm or do you know if they're sent to some/many others? The messages are sent in hard copy as opposed to email?  Do you have any idea of why they're sent to you? As far as I know the FLSD doesn't have any groups/outliers on the east coast, so it's rather curious.

Did you look at any of the "directives"? 

[William]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

I don't see one.  It's telling everyone around you who you're attracted to, but if you're not going to see anyone, it doesn't really mean a hill of beans to anyone.

[Ionnis]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Some report that disclosing their sexual orientation, even if they are living chastely as the Church understands it, delivers them from a spiritual darkness that previously plagued them while they suffered this enormous cross in secret.  If that is the case, and really we have no reason to disbelieve such testimony, then what is the problem? 

[JamesRottnek]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Have you ever tried keeping a substantial secret about yourself from everyone?

[NicholasMyra]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

People shouldn't have to come to terms with such things alone, for one.

[Tikhon.of.Colorado]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

People shouldn't have to come to terms with such things alone, for one.

That's true.  Just dealing with the attraction, and feeling alienated because your feelings aren't accepted is terrible.  I threw up when I had "the talk" with my therapist.

[LBK]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Have you ever tried keeping a substantial secret about yourself from everyone?

I have. More than once. Nothing immoral or criminal, mind you. I've also kept secrets about others countless times.

[orthonorm]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Have you ever tried keeping a substantial secret about yourself from everyone?

Everyone does. In fact that which is most important about ourselves is incapable of even being disclosed to ourselves much less to another.

And, I'm Batman.

Oops!

[Kerdy]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Nope, but for some reason it is believed everyone wants to know.

[Kerdy]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

People shouldn't have to come to terms with such things alone, for one.

But one does not have to take the journey alone and at the same time not have to announce their preferences to the world.  This is what friends and clergy are for.  However, there is something to say for a person who is seeking to lead a holy life rather than seeking acceptance.  I think a lot of it will have to do with the "why" and the
how".

[Kerdy]

Is there even a point for someone who believes that homosexuality is sinful to act upon to come out?

Have you ever tried keeping a substantial secret about yourself from everyone?

I have. More than once. Nothing immoral or criminal, mind you. I've also kept secrets about others countless times.

Life is full of secrets of all kinds.  For instance, there are a lot of things I am not at liberty to talk to my wife about in regards to my job.  After all these years, she accepts, "I can’t talk about it" as an answer.

[AustralianDiaspora]

Funny this should come up on the recent posts board as a topic today. I had no intention of discussing my sexual orientation here but since I was outed by another member of the board, I might as well contribute.

I'm not gay, though I am queer and part of that is same-sex attraction. The Priest of my own parish says that if I want to be Orthodox I can't be in a relationship with someone of the same gender, though when you travel in the circles I do where gender and sex is not an absolute that doesn't mean a whole lot. I have never discussed my gender with my Priest as I don't see the point. I know other Priests personally who are gay themselves (though not in relationships) and see the attitude of certain people, including Priests, within the church to be inertia. I've also heard stories of Priests blessing homosexual relationships and considering them to be as valid as marriage. I have no desire to get into a debate with anyone about this though as it is too sensitive a topic for me. Suffice to say there are many points of view regarding homosexuality within the Church, and the most important thing is leave personal matters between the individual, their spiritual father and God and it is not for anyone else to judge or assume.

[Cyrillic]

I have never discussed my gender with my Priest as I don't see the point.

The priest doesn't know whether you're a man or a woman? 

[Jetavan]

I have never discussed my gender with my Priest as I don't see the point.

The priest doesn't know whether you're a man or a woman? 

Why is that relevant?

[Cyrillic]

How could the priest not know whether he's a man or a woman? It just strikes me as weird.

[LBK]

I've also heard stories of Priests blessing homosexual relationships and considering them to be as valid as marriage.

Were they Orthodox priests?

FYI, a couple of years ago, an Orthodox priest in Russia performed a same-sex "marriage" in the church he served in. Word quickly got out to many people, including the priest's bishop. The priest was swiftly defrocked, and the church in which he had conducted the ceremony was razed to the ground.

This is not bigotry on the part of the bishop, but a case of him upholding established Orthodox teaching on the matter, and properly dealing with a grave violation of practice and proper conduct on the part of the priest.

[Cyrillic]

The priest was swiftly defrocked, and the church in which he had conducted the ceremony was razed to the ground.

LOL.

[Jetavan]

How could the priest not know whether he's a man or a woman? It just strikes me as weird.

The gender of some people is quite hard to determine.

[Cyrillic]

How could the priest not know whether he's a man or a woman? It just strikes me as weird.

The gender of some people is quite hard to determine.

 

[AustralianDiaspora]

I have never discussed my gender with my Priest as I don't see the point.

The priest doesn't know whether you're a man or a woman?  

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I will answer this question on the assumption that you are serious. My Priest knows my physical sex, because I have all the physical characteristics of femaleness. What I meant was, I do not feel comfortable having those gendered characteristics but since I am not seeking to change myself to appear more masculine or have gender reassignment surgery at any point in my life, I don't see a reason to bring it up. Of course, it is true that for some people, gender is difficult to determine either because they appear androgynous or because they are intersexed (neither biologically male or female).

were they Orthodox Priests?

Yes. This is something I have heard second-hand. I don't know the surrounding circumstances. I do know that there are ordained gay Orthodox Priests who are celibate.

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law. I haven't been able to find an official statement of any kind either condoning or condemning homosexuality. Would anyone be so kind as to provide some information on this?

[jmbejdl]

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law.

You assume wrongly. The EP is not an Orthodox equivalent to the Pope of Rome.

James

[AustralianDiaspora]

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law.

You assume wrongly. The EP is not an Orthodox equivalent to the Pope of Rome.

James

I am aware of that, and I am aware that the idea of a Pope is inconsistent with Orthodox theology. What I meant, and didn't clearly express, is that while the Echumenical Patriarch is not in any way a stand-in for Christ, he is the highest authority there is on earth. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

[LBK]

but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law.

No, he doesn't. He has equal spiritual authority to every other Orthodox patriarch, and, in the strictest sense, every other Orthodox bishop. It is commonly reported in the secular media that the EP is some sort of Orthodox Pope, but this is not at all true.

I haven't been able to find an official statement of any kind either condoning or condemning homosexuality. Would anyone be so kind as to provide some information on this?

From the document Bases of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church, issued in 2000 by the Synod of Bishops of the Russian Orthodox Church. It covers a variety of matters, including "modern" matters of morality and conduct.

XII. 9. Holy Scriptures and the teaching of the Church unequivocally deplore homosexual relations, seeing in them a vicious distortion of the God-created human nature.

«If a man lies with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination» (Lev. 20:13). The Bibles relates a story about a heavy punishment to which God subjected the people of Sodom (Gen. 19:1-19) precisely for the sin of sodomy. St. Paul, describing the moral condition of the Gentiles, names homosexual relations among the most «vile affections» and «fornications» defiling the human body: «Their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise the men, leaving the natural use of women, burned in their lust one towards another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet» (Rom. 1:26-27). «Be not deceived: neither effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind… shall inherit the kingdom of God», wrote the apostle to the people of corrupted Corinth (1 Cor. 6:9-10). The patristic tradition equally clearly and definitely denounces any manifestation of homosexuality. The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, the works of Sts Basil the Great, John Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa and Blessed Augustine and the canon of St. John the Faster — all express the unchangeable teaching of the Church that homosexual relations are sinful and should be condemned. People involved in them have not right to be members of the clergy (Gregory the Great, Canon 7; Gregory of Nyssa, Canon 4; John the Faster, Canon 30). Addressing those who stained themselves with the sin of sodomy, the St. Maxim the Greek made this appeal: «See at yourselves, damned ones, what a foul pleasure you indulge in! Try to give up as soon as possible this most nasty and stinking pleasure of yours, to hate it and to fulminate eternally those who argue that it is innocent as enemies of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and corrupters of His teaching. Cleanse yourselves of this blight by repentance, ardent tears, alms-giving as much as you can and pure prayer… Hate this unrighteousness with all your heart, so that you may not be sons of damnation and eternal death».

The debate on the status of the so-called sexual minorities in contemporary society tends to recognise homosexuality not as a sexual perversion but only one of the «sexual orientations» which have the equal right to public manifestation and respect. It is also argued that the homosexual drive is caused by the individual inborn predisposition. The Orthodox Church proceeds from the invariable conviction that the divinely established marital union of man and woman cannot be compared to the perverted manifestations of sexuality. She believes homosexuality to be a sinful distortion of human nature, which is overcome by spiritual effort leading to the healing and personal growth of the individual. Homosexual desires, just as other passions torturing fallen man, are healed by the Sacraments, prayer, fasting, repentance, reading of Holy Scriptures and patristic writings, as well as Christian fellowship with believers who are ready to give spiritual support.

While treating people with homosexual inclinations with pastoral responsibility, the Church is resolutely against the attempts to present this sinful tendency as a «norm» and even something to be proud of and emulate. This is why the Church denounces any propaganda of homosexuality. Without denying anybody the fundamental rights to life, respect for personal dignity and participation in public affairs, the Church, however, believes that those who propagate the homosexual way of life should not be admitted to educational and other work with children and youth, nor to occupy superior posts in the army and reformatories.

Sometimes perverted human sexuality is manifested in the form of the painful feeling of one's belonging to the opposite sex, resulting in an attempt to change one's sex (transsexuality). One's desire to refuse the sex that has been given him or her by the Creator can have pernicious consequences for one's further development. «The change of sex» through hormonal impact and surgical operation has led in many cases not to the solution of psychological problems, but to their aggravation, causing a deep inner crisis. The Church cannot approve of such a «rebellion against the Creator» and recognise as valid the artificially changed sexual affiliation. If «a change of sex» happened in a person before his or her Baptism, he or she can be admitted to this Sacrament as any other sinner, but the Church will baptise him or her as belonging to his or her sex by birth. The ordination of such a person and his or her marriage in church are inadmissible.

Transsexuality should be distinguished from the wrong identification of the sex in one's infancy as a result of doctors' mistake caused by a pathological development of sexual characteristics. The surgical correction in this case is not a change of sex.

Link to the whole document:

http://mospat.ru/en/documents/social-concepts/about/

[jmbejdl]

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law.

You assume wrongly. The EP is not an Orthodox equivalent to the Pope of Rome.

James

I am aware of that, and I am aware that the idea of a Pope is inconsistent with Orthodox theology. What I meant, and didn't clearly express, is that while the Echumenical Patriarch is not in any way a stand-in for Christ, he is the highest authority there is on earth. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

I'd still say you were mistaken. He isn't a higher authority than any other Patriarch. If there's a Pan-Orthodox synod he has the right to chair but he certainly has no direct authority over Patriarch Daniel of my church, for instance. The highest authority on earth would be a Pan-Orthodox synod, not any individual bishop.

James

[Jetavan]

I haven't been able to find an official statement of any kind either condoning or condemning homosexuality. Would anyone be so kind as to provide some information on this?

There's nothing condemning the mere fact of same-sex attraction, to my knowledge.

[AustralianDiaspora]

Thank you James I understand now that the Echumenical Patriarch does not have any more authority than any of the others (what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

LBK, If this statement was released by the Russian Orthodox, does that mean it is applicable to all of the Orthodox churches? If not, are there similar statements that have been released by say, the Greek Orthodox church?

Jetavan, I should have made a distinction between homosexuality as an orientation and homosexual behaviour. Thanks for your post.

[Cyrillic]

Forgive my ignorance, but I assume the Ecumenical Patriarch, in the absence of Christ, defines Orthodox law. I haven't been able to find an official statement of any kind either condoning or condemning homosexuality. Would anyone be so kind as to provide some information on this?

Only in the dreams of the EP 

[LBK]

(what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

The EP is considered "first among equals" among his fellow bishops. He has a primacy of honor, but not supreme in power or authority over his fellow bishops.

[AustralianDiaspora]

(what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

The EP is considered "first among equals" among his fellow bishops. He has a primacy of honor, but not supreme in power or authority over his fellow bishops.

Forgive me, but what do you mean by primacy of honor? I imagine that the title would suggest certain responsibility (or mistakenly, decision-making) for it be necessary?

[LBK]

(what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

The EP is considered "first among equals" among his fellow bishops. He has a primacy of honor, but not supreme in power or authority over his fellow bishops.

Forgive me, but what do you mean by primacy of honor? I imagine that the title would suggest certain responsibility (or mistakenly, decision-making) for it be necessary?

Many centuries ago, Constantinople was considered the center of Orthodox Christendom, so the Patriarch of Constantinople was given this honor. Constantinople, now Istanbul, is no longer the seat of Empire, but the Patriarch's title remains. It's little more than a historical relic.

Other patriarchs, such as those of Antioch and Alexandria, have similar fulsome and poetic titles.

[sheenj]

(what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

The EP is considered "first among equals" among his fellow bishops. He has a primacy of honor, but not supreme in power or authority over his fellow bishops.

Forgive me, but what do you mean by primacy of honor? I imagine that the title would suggest certain responsibility (or mistakenly, decision-making) for it be necessary?

Basically, he gets to sit at the head of the table whenever there is a meeting of Bishops.

[genesisone]

(what then is the purpose of the title if you would be so kind?)

The EP is considered "first among equals" among his fellow bishops. He has a primacy of honor, but not supreme in power or authority over his fellow bishops.

Forgive me, but what do you mean by primacy of honor? I imagine that the title would suggest certain responsibility (or mistakenly, decision-making) for it be necessary?

Imagine a military dinner. Five generals are invited and accept the invitation. Who gets served first? What is the proper seating order? They have their ways of working that out, of course, and heaven help anyone who doesn't get it right!

Or similarly in diplomatic circles: five ambassadors - who gets the best seat?

I believe "ecumenical" came about simply because the Patriarch of Constantinople was the Bishop of the Imperial (Ecumenical) capital city.

[AustralianDiaspora]

Thank you all for your illuminating explanations

[orthonorm]

The priest was swiftly defrocked, and the church in which he had conducted the ceremony was razed to the ground.

LOL.

This is funny?

[orthonorm]

How could the priest not know whether he's a man or a woman? It just strikes me as weird.

The gender of some people is quite hard to determine.

Sex can be at times, although rarely so.

Gender is an academic construct, which I guess academia being part of society, although marginally so, makes it a social construct, which proves their thesis.

Judith Butler made a mint off of a tepid thesis, so I guess good for herim.

[Cyrillic]

The priest was swiftly defrocked, and the church in which he had conducted the ceremony was razed to the ground.

LOL.

This is funny?

Bizarre and ridiculous more like it.

[Shanghaiski]

How could the priest not know whether he's a man or a woman? It just strikes me as weird.

The gender of some people is quite hard to determine.

Not according to the Church's perspective.

[orthonorm]

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but I will answer this question on the assumption that you are serious. My Priest knows my physical sex, because I have all the physical characteristics of femaleness. What I meant was, I do not feel comfortable having those gendered characteristics

This thread will likely get split off, but really this the crux of the matter and where much of gender theory is just out to lunch. All characteristics, if we are going to use such loaded language, are gendered. Being 6' tall is a gendered characteristic. It can be placed with a genus, actually many.

I've not the time to take up the problem in even a basic manner right now, but I am sad that we live in a society where those who should be aware more than others of the gendered quality of all things, would choose to reduce gender to two, maybe, three, or four categories.

The problem is not how to align one's sex with one's gender or the other way around, but how to show this whole gendering business in the first place is radically groundless and that gender has indeed a performative role, but ontologically the notion of all gendered qualities is quite unthought.

This could be approached theologically and thus within the gendering manner of the Trinity or philosophically and thus within the field of being and how something like a genus arises in the first place and how it comes to gender the beings within its field.