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Author Topic: how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?  (Read 6110 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #135 on: January 10, 2013, 09:11:54 PM »

To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus.
and second of all, you didn't answer about the coptics. What are they? and what is the difference  between them and the E0.

Which Jesus? Just because someone says they believe in Jesus does not mean that they really worship Jesus, but rather worship their own idol of what they imagine Jesus is like in their mind. This is why doctrine, dogma and apostolic succession are so important. If they do not adhere to the traditions that the Apostles passed down to us (2 Thess. 2:15) then they do not worship the real Jesus but an idol of Jesus.

*flamesuit on* As to your Coptic question, that's a controversial one. Being honest, they are a group of heretics who broke away from the Church by rejecting the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon. Many disagree though...It's more confusing than that.
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« Reply #136 on: January 10, 2013, 09:18:00 PM »

To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus.
and second of all, you didn't answer about the coptics. What are they? and what is the difference  between them and the E0.

Which Jesus? Just because someone says they believe in Jesus does not mean that they really worship Jesus, but rather worship their own idol of what they imagine Jesus is like in their mind. This is why doctrine, dogma and apostolic succession are so important. If they do not adhere to the traditions that the Apostles passed down to us (2 Thess. 2:15) then they do not worship the real Jesus but an idol of Jesus.

*flamesuit on* As to your Coptic question, that's a controversial one. Being honest, they are a group of heretics who broke away from the Church by rejecting the Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon. Many disagree though...It's more confusing than that.

Did we just listen to the same podcast on Ancient Faith Radio?  Wink
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« Reply #137 on: January 10, 2013, 10:04:17 PM »

Quote
how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?


Why change it when you can start a new one?

Denominations.  Making new ones since the 16th century.

so if you decide to change it you will make your own?
But what if I don't change?

I left all that stuff behind.  I won't return.
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« Reply #138 on: January 10, 2013, 10:06:27 PM »


Coptic Orthodox


are they a different denomination? and what is the difference between them and the EO?

You do realize that Orthodoxy is not a "denomination", right?

The Orthodox Church is the One True Church of Christ.

Denominations have branched off from Orthodoxy.





To me it's the same.
And you are incorrect.
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« Reply #139 on: January 11, 2013, 03:56:43 AM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.
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« Reply #140 on: January 11, 2013, 05:05:02 AM »

"They all believe in Jesus."  It's not that simple, who is Jesus?

The Coptic Orthodox Church along with other so called Oriental Orthodox Churches--Armenian Apostolic, Syrian Orthodox, do not accept the statement of faith promulgated by 4th Ecumenical Synod which met at Chalcedon in 451, which became dogma to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Christian Church (along with the Roman Catholic Church which were united as the "Undivided Church of Christ" at the time): That there are two perfect natures in the Person of Christ unified "unconfusedly, indivisibly, and inseparably."
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« Reply #141 on: January 11, 2013, 05:11:48 AM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.
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« Reply #142 on: January 11, 2013, 05:31:31 AM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

Which are not even universally accepted doctrine. Roll Eyes
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« Reply #143 on: January 11, 2013, 11:58:18 AM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.
Ah, James, James, James.
You need to have a phone visit with a good Palestinian priest. I know it put my mind at ease. All those armchair orthodox in the Fr. Seraphim Fan Club have truly made a cult out of the tollhouses.
Find me unanimous sources before 400AD, or even a mere seven fathers who support this theory and then worry. The scripture speaks of two judgements.... A personal one and the final one. Beyond that, everything is speculation and man's own supposed revelations. Many, I repeat, MANY orthodox, including those native to Syria, Palestine and Jerusalem hold no such dogma.

Rest in the knowledge of this. Don't be concerned with it. Keep your mind focused on Christ and on getting up every time you fall down. Learning how to take a spiritual punch in the mouth is your first step in the martyrdom that our Lord asks of us.

After a while you will see that it gets easier and your natural desire to love God by saying no to the flesh will overcome your base desires to say yes all the time.

I hope you have a good spiritual father. If not, get one QUICKLY!
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« Reply #144 on: January 11, 2013, 02:22:40 PM »

Quote
how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?


Why change it when you can start a new one?

Denominations.  Making new ones since the 16th century.

so if you decide to change it you will make your own?
But what if I don't change?

I left all that stuff behind.  I won't return.


you don't have to change. You shouldn't have to anyway. But what makes you so certain that you won't, is what I am curious about.
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« Reply #145 on: January 11, 2013, 02:23:49 PM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.

They all believe in Jesus as a saviour.
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« Reply #146 on: January 11, 2013, 02:30:20 PM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

Where in the Bible is Jesus talking about tollhouses. If he does and no one told you upfront, then you are indeed backstabed. However, if he doesn't say such thing in the bible, rest assured that you have not been backstabed. Not by Jesus at least. And if Jesus has not backstabed you, who will dare to do that to you, without consequences?
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« Reply #147 on: January 11, 2013, 03:09:29 PM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

So you are going to apostatize on something that is not dogmatic or doctrinal, that a lot of theologians and monks themselves do not accept and refute?

http://new-ostrog.org/discussion-on-the-toll-houses
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« Reply #148 on: January 11, 2013, 03:27:44 PM »

I left the Catholic Church to become Orthodox and I will die Orthodox.
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« Reply #149 on: January 11, 2013, 03:29:57 PM »

I was done with denominationalism in 2007
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« Reply #150 on: January 11, 2013, 03:59:08 PM »

I was done with denominationalism in 2007

and what drew you to catholicism rather than Orthodoxy?
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« Reply #151 on: January 11, 2013, 04:07:00 PM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.

They all believe in Jesus as a saviour.

So did the Arians.
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« Reply #152 on: January 11, 2013, 06:20:13 PM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.

They all believe in Jesus as a saviour.

So did the Arians.

Tweety what's your opinion on the Arians?
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« Reply #153 on: January 11, 2013, 06:25:20 PM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.

They all believe in Jesus as a saviour.

So did the Arians.

Tweety what's your opinion on the Arians?

Don't encourage him.
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« Reply #154 on: January 11, 2013, 06:27:30 PM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

Where in the Bible is Jesus talking about tollhouses. If he does and no one told you upfront, then you are indeed backstabed. However, if he doesn't say such thing in the bible, rest assured that you have not been backstabed. Not by Jesus at least. And if Jesus has not backstabed you, who will dare to do that to you, without consequences?

Sola Scriptura?
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« Reply #155 on: January 11, 2013, 06:30:33 PM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

Are you sure that this is the reason and not your desire to free yourselves from God so that you can satisfy your self-admitted great carnal appetites?
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« Reply #156 on: January 11, 2013, 06:55:27 PM »

On second thought, I might actually apostatize because I feel highly shattered and backstabbed after reading about the tollhouses.

Where in the Bible is Jesus talking about tollhouses. If he does and no one told you upfront, then you are indeed backstabed. However, if he doesn't say such thing in the bible, rest assured that you have not been backstabed. Not by Jesus at least. And if Jesus has not backstabed you, who will dare to do that to you, without consequences?

Sola Scriptura?

sola scriptura? who me? No. I tend to like it more though.
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« Reply #157 on: January 11, 2013, 11:24:28 PM »

Quote
how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?


Why change it when you can start a new one?

Denominations.  Making new ones since the 16th century.

so if you decide to change it you will make your own?
But what if I don't change?

I left all that stuff behind.  I won't return.


you don't have to change. You shouldn't have to anyway. But what makes you so certain that you won't, is what I am curious about.

Why?  Is this one of those, "If you have to choose your wife or your kid, which one would it be" scenarios?
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« Reply #158 on: January 12, 2013, 11:41:45 AM »

Quote
how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?


Why change it when you can start a new one?

Denominations.  Making new ones since the 16th century.

so if you decide to change it you will make your own?
But what if I don't change?

I left all that stuff behind.  I won't return.


you don't have to change. You shouldn't have to anyway. But what makes you so certain that you won't, is what I am curious about.

Why?  Is this one of those, "If you have to choose your wife or your kid, which one would it be" scenarios?


well, answer that.
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« Reply #159 on: January 12, 2013, 04:40:48 PM »

That's not a fair question because there's really no correct answer. In a situation like that IN REAL LIFE, you save whoever you're able to save and that's the best you can do.
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« Reply #160 on: January 12, 2013, 06:28:22 PM »

That's not a fair question because there's really no correct answer. In a situation like that IN REAL LIFE, you save whoever you're able to save and that's the best you can do.

Indeed. But I would give priority to my child though.
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« Reply #161 on: January 12, 2013, 06:30:40 PM »

I was done with denominationalism in 2007

and what drew you to catholicism rather than Orthodoxy?
I'd like to think that it was the Holy Spirit. That said, there are times when I feel drawn to the Orthodox Church. Right now I am a bit mixed up. I know that I'm done with Protestantism though, so I am better off than I was.
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« Reply #162 on: January 12, 2013, 09:01:36 PM »

Quote
how sure are you that you will never change a denomination?


Why change it when you can start a new one?

Denominations.  Making new ones since the 16th century.

so if you decide to change it you will make your own?
But what if I don't change?

I left all that stuff behind.  I won't return.


you don't have to change. You shouldn't have to anyway. But what makes you so certain that you won't, is what I am curious about.

Why?  Is this one of those, "If you have to choose your wife or your kid, which one would it be" scenarios?


well, answer that.
I had a feeling.  I'm not into games, so I believe I'll pass on the opportunity to play.  But thank you for the invitation.
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« Reply #163 on: January 12, 2013, 09:18:05 PM »

Tweety234 said...
"To me it's the same. They all believe in Jesus."


How is it possibly the same? Same what, faith? Please enlighten us on how, exactly.

They all believe in Jesus as a saviour.

So did the Arians.

Tweety what's your opinion on the Arians?


Share a piece of their theory and I will tell you.
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« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2013, 01:23:31 PM »

"They all believe in Jesus."  It's not that simple, who is Jesus?

The Coptic Orthodox Church along with other so called Oriental Orthodox Churches--Armenian Apostolic, Syrian Orthodox, do not accept the statement of faith promulgated by 4th Ecumenical Synod which met at Chalcedon in 451, which became dogma to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Christian Church (along with the Roman Catholic Church which were united as the "Undivided Church of Christ" at the time): That there are two perfect natures in the Person of Christ unified "unconfusedly, indivisibly, and inseparably."

Who is jesus?  simple.

He is the man who was crucified by idiots (jews) who love their religion and prefer it to the living God who is the father of jesus. Jesus also is the man who was raised by his father from the dead, which is why we (humans) have hope of being raised and take part in his heavenly kingdom. That is who jesus is.
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« Reply #165 on: February 02, 2013, 01:30:51 PM »

I've been to hoping the change the El Bethel denomination up the street. Trying to get them to just Bethel. Looks weird to my terrible understanding of Hebrew and worse to my just slightly better understanding of Spanish.




Yes, I know some witnesses of Genesis 35:7 include this oddity.
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« Reply #166 on: February 02, 2013, 02:11:09 PM »

I've been to hoping the change the El Bethel denomination up the street. Trying to get them to just Bethel. Looks weird to my terrible understanding of Hebrew and worse to my just slightly better understanding of Spanish.

Lol - maybe they'll switch to "La Bethel" (cf. La casa de Dios).  laugh

Bayit is masculine, though.

El bethel would be "the god of Bethel", meaning the deity worshiped at that particular Canaanite sanctuary/altar.

This is what you get when people name their post-modern church after pre-Christian (pre-Yahwist even) sanctuaries! 
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« Reply #167 on: February 02, 2013, 04:44:49 PM »

Well, I suppose it would be within the realm of possibility that I could be persuaded away from Christianity or just lose faith. I have heard others say that we decide to be a Christian every day, and that seems true to me.

I can say with some confidence that I would never become a Protestant again if I remained a faithful Christian all of my days. But I could perhaps be argued into Oriental Orthodoxy because of my admitted lack of knowledge concerning the Christological controversies surrounding the split. I could also be argued into Roman Catholicism if the primary sources were tilted heavier into the direction of current papal claims.

But Eastern Orthodoxy seems more universal to me than Oriental Orthodoxy and more accessible at this point in history, plus I am really heavily invested into the "Byzantine" theological perspective: theosis, silence, etc. And Roman Catholicism seems like a sinking ship to me, no offense to the Catholics around.
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« Reply #168 on: February 04, 2013, 02:44:38 PM »

"They all believe in Jesus."  It's not that simple, who is Jesus?

The Coptic Orthodox Church along with other so called Oriental Orthodox Churches--Armenian Apostolic, Syrian Orthodox, do not accept the statement of faith promulgated by 4th Ecumenical Synod which met at Chalcedon in 451, which became dogma to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Christian Church (along with the Roman Catholic Church which were united as the "Undivided Church of Christ" at the time): That there are two perfect natures in the Person of Christ unified "unconfusedly, indivisibly, and inseparably."

Who is jesus?  simple.

He is the man who was crucified by idiots (jews) who love their religion and prefer it to the living God who is the father of jesus. Jesus also is the man who was raised by his father from the dead, which is why we (humans) have hope of being raised and take part in his heavenly kingdom. That is who jesus is.

If I recall correctly, Jesus was crucified by pagan Romans, at the insistence of particular group of Jews.  I also remember hearing from both Catholic and Orthodox priests that every time we sin we actively participate in His crucifixion. 
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« Reply #169 on: February 04, 2013, 03:19:02 PM »


He is the man who was crucified by idiots (jews) who love their religion and prefer it to the living God who is the father of jesus. Jesus also is the man who was raised by his father from the dead, which is why we (humans) have hope of being raised and take part in his heavenly kingdom. That is who jesus is.
it may have been intentional; it may not have been; nonetheless I find the following juxtaposition very interesting:  "idiots (jews)"/"we (humans)".

i certainly hope the linguistic combination does not betray some sort of underlying way of thinking on your part.
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« Reply #170 on: February 04, 2013, 04:29:39 PM »

"They all believe in Jesus."  It's not that simple, who is Jesus?

The Coptic Orthodox Church along with other so called Oriental Orthodox Churches--Armenian Apostolic, Syrian Orthodox, do not accept the statement of faith promulgated by 4th Ecumenical Synod which met at Chalcedon in 451, which became dogma to the Holy Eastern Orthodox Christian Church (along with the Roman Catholic Church which were united as the "Undivided Church of Christ" at the time): That there are two perfect natures in the Person of Christ unified "unconfusedly, indivisibly, and inseparably."

Who is jesus?  simple.

He is the man who was crucified by idiots (jews) who love their religion and prefer it to the living God who is the father of jesus. Jesus also is the man who was raised by his father from the dead, which is why we (humans) have hope of being raised and take part in his heavenly kingdom. That is who jesus is.

I am going to say it slightly differently than JMichael above. The Lord was crucified by the Romans at the insistence of the Jews. The Jews that the Bible refers to are not the entire Jewish race but a part. Nonetheless, these facts pale in comparison to the fact that the Lord was persecuted by part of God's chosen people and crucified by the Romans, who were at that time the masters of the known world. The point is that humanity, as represented by two such sterling examples, crucified the Lord, fully man but also fully God. The point is that you and I if we had been as favored by God as the Jews and the Romans, would have done the same thing. We are all idiots in a most profound sense and figuratively hurt Him all the time. I was reading a saint who said something to the effect that God is not just; He is just loving, for if He were truly just, the race of man would not exist.
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