Author Topic: Gay marriage could signal return to ‘centuries of persecution’, say RCC priests  (Read 16858 times)

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Offline augustin717

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Kerdy alas you aren't the brightest bulb around here. I would also appreciate if you didn't feel compelled to correct all I say.

Offline Romaios

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As I see it the right wingers fascination with fr.Seraphim Rose is only due to his ultra reactionary views, as if in an effort to somehow psychologically compensate for an identy that in any of those much fetishized traditional/conservative/organic communities/societies /ordos would have had no place  but would have been just scorned. Now I am pretty sure he wouldn't have the same following had he been somehow more attuned to the aspirations of his age that even if naive sometimes were still less intent in making life hell for marginal categories of people. His case is tragic IMO

Would all of his views be "ultra reactionary" or just some of them?

Doesn't being "ultra" push one into the "non-reactionary" sphere by any chance? Doesn't the "progressive/reactionary" dilemma admit any transcendence whatsoever?

You mean, had he lived in Transylvania, our sane people - the ever straight standard of Orthodoxy - would have scorned him for making prostrations and having too long a beard?

Fr. Arsenie Boca - roughly his contemporary - was and still is quite popular in Transylvania and IMO he wasn't much different. Of course, he was punished for being "reactionary". That made his case less tragic.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 12:05:24 AM by Romaios »

Offline Kerdy

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Kerdy alas you aren't the brightest bulb around here. I would also appreciate if you didn't feel compelled to correct all I say.

Personal attacks?  Congratulations for your advancement up the chain.  I sure your “fans” will be proud.  However, since this is all you can muster, because you obviously are unable to carry on an intellectual conversation without name calling or some long spiral into the decent of political insanity, I feel you are not a person worthy of dialogue and bid you good day.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 11:46:58 PM by Kerdy »

Offline ialmisry

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Quote
For a variety of reasons, I'd have to see some substantiation of your claim.
Then, I'm afraid, you'll have to go to the villages strewn along the valley of the White Cris (Crisul Alb) and conduct investigations on the ground. I know that area pretty well.
you also are lugging around a heavy agenda, that I know pretty well.

That's in Arad, no?  IIRC, I know a number of people from there.  I'll have to ask them about their recollections of the place, if it matches with yours.
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                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline mike

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All of this is in fact fruitless because I believe that both you and the Church are mistaken about homosexuality. As far as I'm concerned, it's as sinful as being red-headed or having a heart murmur.

So go ahead and respond if you wish, but since we appear to disagree at a very fundamental level, I doubt it will serve much of a purpose.

The Church does not say homosexuality is sinful.

I wouldn't be so fast to make this proclamation.  Look at Father Seraphim Rose, who once lived as a homosexual, but turned away from that life.

Did he become heterosexual? Really?
Dont really know, but he turned away from it. Im not sure if he "switched sides".

Turned away? How did he manage to nullify his libido? Did he take bromine?

Are you saying that people are incapable of living celibate lives?


I'm saying that most* people are incapable of turning off their libido.


This is not entirely true, but even if it was, it has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about...nothing.

It has. You wrote Fr. Rose had stopped being homosexual. I think it'd have been nearly impossible and I do not believe you.

Offline Justin Kissel

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I do not think "turned away from that life" equates to "stopped being homosexual," if the first phrase speaks of actions and the second one orientation...
"Christian America is finally waking up to what fraternities and biker gangs have known for years: hazing works!"

Offline Kerdy

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All of this is in fact fruitless because I believe that both you and the Church are mistaken about homosexuality. As far as I'm concerned, it's as sinful as being red-headed or having a heart murmur.

So go ahead and respond if you wish, but since we appear to disagree at a very fundamental level, I doubt it will serve much of a purpose.

The Church does not say homosexuality is sinful.

I wouldn't be so fast to make this proclamation.  Look at Father Seraphim Rose, who once lived as a homosexual, but turned away from that life.

Did he become heterosexual? Really?
Dont really know, but he turned away from it. Im not sure if he "switched sides".

Turned away? How did he manage to nullify his libido? Did he take bromine?

Are you saying that people are incapable of living celibate lives?


I'm saying that most* people are incapable of turning off their libido.


This is not entirely true, but even if it was, it has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about...nothing.

It has. You wrote Fr. Rose had stopped being homosexual. I think it'd have been nearly impossible and I do not believe you.
That is not at all what I said.  There is no need for such dishonesty.

Offline stavros_388

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To be honest, I had not heard any of this scandalous news regarding Fr. Herman before this. It's a bit saddening.  :(

Fwiw, I just found this site which presents a defense of Fr. Seraphim Rose of Blessed Memory:

http://startingontheroyalpath.blogspot.ca/1999/02/in-fr-seraphims-defense.html
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Offline Romaios

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To be honest, I had not heard any of this scandalous news regarding Fr. Herman before this. It's a bit saddening.  :(

Fwiw, I just found this site which presents a defense of Fr. Seraphim Rose of Blessed Memory:

http://startingontheroyalpath.blogspot.ca/1999/02/in-fr-seraphims-defense.html


After reading this, I understand why Fr. Seraphim would have wanted to share a cell with Herman.

I'm sure he wouldn't have agreed to it, if he hadn't been certain that, by the grace of God, he himself had overcome temptation.

Romans 15:1 Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not please ourselves.

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

From the Rule of St. Benedict, Chapter 22 - How the Monks Are to Sleep:

Let the brethren sleep singly, each in a separate bed. Let them receive the bedding befitting their mode of life, according to the direction of their Abbot. If it can be done, let all sleep in one apartment; but if the number doth not allow it, let them sleep in tens or twenties with the seniors who have charge of them. Let a light be kept burning constantly in the cell till morning.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:11:14 PM by Romaios »

Offline augustin717

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To be honest, I had not heard any of this scandalous news regarding Fr. Herman before this. It's a bit saddening.  :(

Fwiw, I just found this site which presents a defense of Fr. Seraphim Rose of Blessed Memory:

http://startingontheroyalpath.blogspot.ca/1999/02/in-fr-seraphims-defense.html

I love the comment from "Joanna". Truly rich. More like the proverbial ostrich's tactics. But it's of no importance of course what Fr. Seraphim actually fell into or not. That's for God to judge if He cares. The mindset of his great admirers is what I find funny as they only admire fr. Rose for doing in a way, what their project is for homosexuals and other undesired people. Bury the issues/pretend it doesn't exist. Also preach a political worldview-in the largest sense of the word- of the most retrograde sort. like his idealization of a world he never knew personally. Autocratic Russia. Had he been a bit more open-even to the level of fr. Nouwen, I doubt he would have the same set of admirers and defenders.
&&&&&&&

"From: Joanna

I remember reading somewhere somebody who knew Fr. Seraphim said that when he was told about some sexual sin, he would say, "That's disgusting" and change the subject.

I've seen where a few have suggested that Fr. Seraphim "struggled" with the homo passion.  Eugene was also a cigarette-smoking heavy-drinking gourmandizer.   Did Fr. Seraphim "struggle" with these passions?  There's no evidence.  All evidence points to that he simply abandoned them.  Homos should follow his example.  Change the subject.

The niece, Cathy Scott, wrote her book immediately after Not of This World was published.  It was suggested that maybe she was trying to get a free ride on the coat-tails of Not of This World.  Out of respect for Fr. Seraphim, I refused to read the book. I don't care if she was a family member: non-Orthodox can not understand an Orthodox soul.  Neither can anyone comprehend the dying that occurs in Orthodox Baptism unless they have experienced it.

You and I know Fr. Seraphim infinitely better than Miss Scott could even imagine.

From where do we think Miss Scott got the idea to write that book?  Judging from all the Orthodox evolutionists who don't want to believe about the toll houses, who use Fr. Seraphim's dead past as an excuse to reject living Patristic teachings; I can well guess from where the idea comes..."

Offline serb1389

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^ where is that quoted text from?   :police:
I got nothing.
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Offline augustin717

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« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:16:05 PM by augustin717 »

Offline Romaios

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I love the comment from "Joanna". Truly rich. More like the proverbial ostrich's tactics. But it's of no importance of course what Fr. Seraphim actually fell into or not. That's for God to judge if He cares. The mindset of his great admirers is what I find funny as they only admire fr. Rose for doing in a way, what their project is for homosexuals and other undesired people. Bury the issues/pretend it doesn't exist. Also preach a political worldview-in the largest sense of the word- of the most retrograde sort. like his idealization of a world he never knew personally. Autocratic Russia. Had he been a bit more open-even to the level of fr. Nouwen, I doubt he would have the same set of admirers and defenders.

You let your politics contaminate (infect) your religion too much. How about trying the opposite, for a change?

Of course God cares about what we do. Of course he will judge. 

What's Autocratic Russia got to do with all this?

You seem to have everybody all figured out. Your political theories explain people without a rest.

Offline augustin717

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^ too much like your bible verses. You really think they explain everything?

Offline Romaios

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^ too much like your bible verses. You really think they explain everything?

They explain religious people better than political theories.

And yes, I believe that Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore try to understand everything through its frame of reference. It mustn't be given a narrow interpretation, but it needn't be confined or restricted to a narrow portion of one's existence either. In fact, there's nothing Scripture can't or shouldn't be applied to. Which is more than anyone can say or hope about Marx.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:38:50 PM by Romaios »

Offline augustin717

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^ too much like your bible verses. You really think they explain everything?

They explain religious people better than political theories.

And yes, I believe that Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore try to understand everything through its frame of reference. It mustn't be given a narrow interpretation, but it needn't be confined or restricted to a narrow portion of one's existence either. There's nothing Scripture can't or shouldn't be applied to. Which is more than anyone can say or hope about Marx.
You're funny Romeo. You think I take Marx as divinely inspired. Let's drop it.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 08:39:30 PM by augustin717 »

Offline Romaios

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You're funny Romeo. You think I take Marx as divinely inspired. Let's drop it.

Well, I don't mind amusing you.

Even if you don't care to admit it, he has become your frame of reference for the world.

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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It has been getting a bit too personal. Let's take a short recess, shall we? Carl Kraeff

Offline Carl Kraeff (Second Chance)

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