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JamesR
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« on: December 29, 2012, 11:27:32 PM » |
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Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.
Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.
I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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pmpn8rGPT
我不會說中國話
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 11:46:59 PM » |
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I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
Regardless of whether or not free-will exists is not an excuse to do bad stuff, in fact, it is probably a sign that you are not one of the elect. As far as your original question, I believe in free-will and the church also does. Regardless of whether or not I and the church are correct, we must be attentive to The Laws of The Church and The Scriptures. |
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 11:48:49 PM » |
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I believe free will exists.
If free will did not exist, then God would be ultimately responsible whether you are granted salvation or the 2nd death.
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 12:01:04 AM » |
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Fwiw, if you haven't read it yet, the Thirteenth Conference of St. John Cassian (summary here) might be of some interest to you. |
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"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled." - Plutarch
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 01:15:59 AM » |
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Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.
Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.
I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that. |
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JamesR
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 05:48:46 AM » |
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Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.
Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.
I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that. Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now? |
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Kerdy
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 06:35:35 AM » |
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Free will exists. If not, what is the point?
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"Let it be understood that those who are not found living as He taught are not Christian- even though they profess with the lips the teaching of Christ." - Justin Martyr ( c.160 )
"we recognize that the war is ultimately spiritual rather than carnal." - Gebre Menfes Kidus
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 10:51:43 PM » |
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Sort of a classic question--the clash between free-will and determinism. I was looking for some genuine insight and opinions here. Do you believe in free-will or do you believe that everything is determined and that no one really has any choice? Both views have their advantages and disadvantages, and compelling arguments and counter-arguments can be made for both views.
Ultimately, it seems that each of the arguments in the end are non-testable and cannot be confirmed, and thus, are just matters of opinion. I think that the question of whether or not freedom exists is sort of irrelevant and merely just a matter of perception, because either way, we are where we are right now--whether we have freedom or not.
I like determinism because it diminishes the feeling of guilt for anything bad I do, on the other hand, I like freedom because it provides the feeling of pleasure when we do something good.
See what you typed? if Free Will didn't exist you wouldn't be able to type that. Says who? Why can't be it be claimed that determined events led me into typing that post along with the post I am typing right now? so according to you, you didn't decide to type that. decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will. |
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JamesR
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« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 11:42:33 PM » |
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...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.
It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here. |
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"'Blessed are the peacemakers' For those are peacemakers in themselves who, in conquering and subjecting to reason all the motions of their souls and having their carnal desires tamed, have become in themselves a Kingdom of God."-St. Augustine of Hippo
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 11:45:38 PM » |
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What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will?  |
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"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled." - Plutarch
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Aindriú
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 12:44:06 AM » |
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Must not type this... nOOOOOOOOO
I kid, but seriously this is just another excuse for others to use as a crutch for their lack of fortune/bad choices/nihilist agenda/etc.
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« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 12:45:47 AM by Aindriú »
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 I'm going to need this. |
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tweety234
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« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2013, 02:08:25 PM » |
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does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will?
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« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 02:09:49 PM by tweety234 »
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“God has no religion.”
― Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
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biro
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Και κλήρονομον δείξον με, ζωής της αιωνίου
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« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2013, 05:54:12 PM » |
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Free will exists. If not, what is the point?
The end of a pencil. |
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phthalyl.podomatic.com | the-cornet.blogspot.com | https://soundcloud.com/meteor___ Charlie Rose: If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be? Fran Lebowitz: Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisfied. |
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SolEX01
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« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2013, 07:38:03 PM » |
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does it? I am not sure anymore. I mean is it a free will choice that 2 year old babies get baptised as christians, and learn about christianity, or any religion for that matter. If they remain in that religion when they are old. Is it a completely free will choice? or is it a "what if" doubt that was imparted in their subconscious mind as little children? which one is it? If we can't freely choose for us, but depend on our subconscious which is full of other people's thoughts, opinions, decissions and all that. Then where is our free will? You don't have control over your subconscious? |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 11:34:32 PM » |
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What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will? Every time you ask questions like that, John Calvin cries. |
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Not to be flippantly dismissive, but something of such a personal nature as this is best addressed by your priest, not by anonymous yahoos on an Internet discussion forum.
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yeshuaisiam
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The best things in life are not things.
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2013, 12:29:24 AM » |
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What if I was predestined to type this of my own free will? Then its not to your credit, or not to your fault.... Me either.... Or for typing me either.... <<--- Or that.nn  |
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Gamliel
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« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2013, 12:47:08 AM » |
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No. Yes.
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2013, 03:02:57 AM » |
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...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.
It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here. Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction) Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will |
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Asteriktos
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« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2013, 03:13:02 AM » |
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Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)
Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will
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"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled." - Plutarch
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Aindriú
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« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2013, 11:30:45 AM » |
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Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction)
Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will
Run-on Sentences |
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I'm going to need this. |
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Ashman618
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« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2013, 01:34:02 PM » |
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...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.
It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here. Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction) Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying? |
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2013, 02:25:53 PM » |
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...decision is free will, when you type you make constant decisions, free will.
It's a lot more confusing than that bro. Once again, who said that I honestly am capable of making a decision? What if all we experience is merly the illusion of a decision--ie, it FEELS like I am making a decision when in reality it is determined by external events that ultimately led me into typing those posts, along with this post right here. Well that is an impossibility, because you exist, you know the choices you make. if it is an illusion then you are being deceived about the eternal world and yourself, that though is an impossibility, as an ultimate deceiver is an impossibility(Deception is to gain, All powerful deceiver is a contradiction) Therefore you can't deceived and you have free will. also Free Will is you conscious, you recognized what you did and the external world had nothing to do with it, so again, you have free will An all powerful deceiver is a contradiction, because deception is used for gain and someone with everything would need nothing. I actually like that! Thank you, where does that come from, is that your saying? Nope, learned it from fellow philosophers, I could boast and say it's mine, but honestly anyone could use this, anyone could destroy "atheism" in a second. |
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Shanghaiski
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« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2013, 04:58:54 PM » |
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Does free will exist? I can't decide.
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Not to be flippantly dismissive, but something of such a personal nature as this is best addressed by your priest, not by anonymous yahoos on an Internet discussion forum.
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SavedByChrist94
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« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2013, 07:45:04 PM » |
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Does free will exist? I can't decide.
That was funny. |
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