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Author Topic: Children planning  (Read 1188 times) Average Rating: 0
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Malina
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« on: January 03, 2013, 04:48:59 PM »

Maybe someone could help me to resolve the following issue.
I took in marriage 3 years ago with my wife. We have a little daughter now, but it was a difficult birth for my wife. Because of that she doesn’t want to have a many children in a future.
In such occasion I don`t know how to live intimate life with my wife without sin.
As I know Orthodox people don`t have to use any methods for prevention conception.

 
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« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2013, 05:05:40 PM »

Here comes a debate.

I'm not really fit to answer this as I am not married, but, in short:

Only abstain from sex if both you and your spouse agree to it.

I think that is something both sides of this debate can agree to.
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« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2013, 06:11:07 PM »

I feel a debate comming on too lol, this issues is pastoral listen to your priest and pray, but don't fret to much if your wife gets pregnant again do you not believe God can make her pregnancy easy as it has to be? Trust trust trust faith faith faith. Listen to your priest!
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« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2013, 06:12:16 PM »

Consult your spiritual father, that's probably the best thing I--or anyone else for that matter--could tell you. He will be able to examine your situation with your wife, and prescribe to you the right treatment and advice--not by what a bunch of internet theologian pseudo-Canonists tell you.
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« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 06:21:55 PM »

I would go to your priest and tell him what the situation is, and that you hope to use contraceptives and still participate in the life of the Church. But that's just me (and that was me a few years ago, and that's what happened).
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 04:58:31 AM »

If it's not too personal to ask, did you get any resolution of this issue, Malina?
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 05:40:45 PM »

as far as i know it's ok for the woman to take the contraceptive pill in most orthodox churches.
remember you can adopt children if you decide together not to have any more genetic ones.
if you have great patience, you can adopt a child with a disability or other problem.
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« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 05:48:51 PM »

as far as i know it's ok for the woman to take the contraceptive pill in most orthodox churches.
remember you can adopt children if you decide together not to have any more genetic ones.
if you have great patience, you can adopt a child with a disability or other problem.

Just as I believe that there is a special place in the bathroom stall of the  24 hr 7-11 in hell for people who abuse infirm children, I also believe that the Lord will show special mercies on those who show kindness to them in this life.
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 05:53:15 PM »

Maybe someone could help me to resolve the following issue.
I took in marriage 3 years ago with my wife. We have a little daughter now, but it was a difficult birth for my wife. Because of that she doesn’t want to have a many children in a future.
In such occasion I don`t know how to live intimate life with my wife without sin.
As I know Orthodox people don`t have to use any methods for prevention conception.

I would explain this matter to your Priest.  From what I have heard, Russian Priests tend to be very understanding in this regard, particularly since this seems to be a health related matter for your wife and NOT due to egotistical grounds.  Below is a statement made by the Moscow Patriarchate regarding contraception.  

XII. 3. Among the problems which need a religious and moral assessment is that of contraception. Some contraceptives have an abortive effect, interrupting artificially the life of the embryo on the very first stages of his life. Therefore, the same judgements are applicable to the use of them as to abortion. But other means, which do not involve interrupting an already conceived life, cannot be equated with abortion in the least. In defining their attitude to the non-abortive contraceptives, Christian spouses should remember that human reproduction is one of the principal purposes of the divinely established marital union (see, X. 4). The deliberate refusal of childbirth on egoistic grounds devalues marriage and is a definite sin.

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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 06:08:27 PM »

...if you have great patience, you can adopt a child with a disability or other problem.

Quite frankly, I wish that were easier in America. Adopting a child in America is very difficult and requires extensive background checks, qualifications and you have to meet all of these standards. It's no coincidence that so many Americans are adopting from impoverished nations opposed to American orphans. Now imagine trying to adopt a disabled American orphan; that would be even more difficult. You'd have an easier time driving through a Hispanic neighborhood and offering to "buy" a baby from a teenage girl than trying to legally adopt from an orphanage.
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2013, 07:06:55 PM »

The easiest way to adopt in the US is to foster first.

Family planning:

This is a difficult area to say the least. The fact is that the way you feel about having more children can change rather dramatically. Those first months/year are not by any means easy. Pregnancy and delivery are not very easy. I think in part the reason for this is so a woman doesn't want to get pregnant right away! Smiley

I wouldn't do anything permanent to prevent pregnancy. I would talk to your wife's caregivers about why her pregnancy/delivery were so difficult to see if those factors are likely to occur again. Then I would use a temporary method to avoid pregnancy (i.e barrier methods etc) for a good year before doing anything long-term (i.e implant, hormones etc).

Part of the problem with hormonal and more permanent methods of birth control is that they have side effects that are undesirable/unhealthy. Our bodies were made by God to work in certain ways. The long-term implications of physically disrupting the passage of the egg to the uterus, and a vasectomy can be very, very bad. When you look at life long term you realize that sometimes the risk isn't worth the short term benefit. I have another 10 years at the MAX of fertility. I hope to be able to share intimacy with my husband a great deal longer than that. If I was told that another pregnancy/delivery would be dangerous my husband or I would do something permanent. But at this point the chance of another pregnancy to me is less dangerous than the side effects of a tubal ligation or vasectomy. The side effects of a vasectomy are greatly ignored. It is seen as an easy option because it is day surgery. But it can have lifelong debilitating side effects for many men (permanent swelling, pain and other effects). For that reason I don't think it is something that should be done unless there is a medical need.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:08:35 PM by Quinault » Logged
ialmisry
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2013, 08:02:44 PM »

Maybe someone could help me to resolve the following issue.
I took in marriage 3 years ago with my wife. We have a little daughter now, but it was a difficult birth for my wife. Because of that she doesn’t want to have a many children in a future.
In such occasion I don`t know how to live intimate life with my wife without sin.
As I know Orthodox people don`t have to use any methods for prevention conception.

Do you mean "don't have to use any methods" (не нужно использовать) or "must not use any methods" (не должны использовать)?

The bishops of the Patriarchate of Moscow issued a statement on this:
Quote
XII. 3. Among the problems which need a religious and moral assessment is that of contraception. Some contraceptives have an abortive effect, interrupting artificially the life of the embryo on the very first stages of his life. Therefore, the same judgements are applicable to the use of them as to abortion. But other means, which do not involve interrupting an already conceived life, cannot be equated with abortion in the least. In defining their attitude to the non-abortive contraceptives, Christian spouses should remember that human reproduction is one of the principal purposes of the divinely established marital union (see, X. 4). The deliberate refusal of childbirth on egoistic grounds devalues marriage and is a definite sin.

At the same time, spouses are responsible before God for the comprehensive upbringing of their children. One of the ways to be responsible for their birth is to restrain themselves from sexual relations for a time. However, Christian spouses should remember the words of St. Paul addressed to them: «Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency» (1 Cor. 7:5). Clearly, spouses should make such decisions mutually on the counsel of their spiritual father. The latter should take into account, with pastoral prudence, the concrete living conditions of the couple, their age, health, degree of spiritual maturity and many other circumstances. In doing so, he should distinguish those who can hold the high demands of continence from those to whom it is not given (Mt. 19:11), taking care above all of the preservation and consolidation of the family.

The Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church in its Decision of December 28, 1998, instructed the clergy serving as spiritual guides that «it is inadmissible to coerce or induce the flock to… refuse conjugal relations in marriage». It also reminded the pastors of the need «to show special chastity and special pastoral prudence in discussing with the flock the questions involved in particular aspects of their family life».

http://orthodoxeurope.org/page/3/14.aspx
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2013, 11:35:18 PM »

I don't think we should really plan out God's will.

Already have 5 children, and if he wishes more, we'll have more.
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JamesR
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2013, 11:36:58 PM »

I just want to make sure that I have at least one really intelligent, successful kid; that way there is someone to take care of me when I become old and senile!   Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2013, 11:42:22 PM »

If there are legitimate medical issues I don't see what would prevent your wife from using contraception.  And as far as I'm aware, it wouldn't be sinful for you to have sexual relations with her simply because she is using a contraceptive.  But at the end of the day, if your conscience or that of your wives is disturbed by the use of contraception, that must be respected.  Pray and seek the counsel of a humble, understanding, and experienced priest.  
« Last Edit: February 16, 2013, 11:42:51 PM by Ionnis » Logged

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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2013, 06:28:15 AM »

I just say don't worry about it and if your wife gets pregnant she gets pregnant.  Smiley
Nothing wrong with more children.  How can you plan... really... after all?

My wife's church, there are people with 14 children, 11 children, lots with 9 children.... Our 5 children is considered "smaller".    Children are complete blessings.
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