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Author Topic: Have we become like this unintentionally maybe?  (Read 1691 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ashman618
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« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2012, 11:00:19 PM »

Quote

It's the public actions that count.  

So, if I kiss my priest's hand every time I see him in public. I am a good christian, even if I wished him ill in my heart for instance?

From what we could see of you, yes. we coudl not know what is within your heart, only how you act and carry yourself

My behaviour, or anyone's behaviour for that matter, is not always an expression of our true self. And our true self in this world full of judgement, doesn't always have an expression. We only reveal to others as much as they can handle. Sometimes less. But never more.

I reveal more of myself then not, but it mostly involves 4 letter words.
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tweety234
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« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2012, 11:12:45 PM »

Quote

It's the public actions that count.  

So, if I kiss my priest's hand every time I see him in public. I am a good christian, even if I wished him ill in my heart for instance?

From what we could see of you, yes. we coudl not know what is within your heart, only how you act and carry yourself

My behaviour, or anyone's behaviour for that matter, is not always an expression of our true self. And our true self in this world full of judgement, doesn't always have an expression. We only reveal to others as much as they can handle. Sometimes less. But never more.

I will conceed that point, however, what right do we have to guess at their inner motives, when all we have to judge off of is their behaviour on the outside? To use your point, why are you so eager to try and find fault in them, when all we know is their behaviour in church.

As as a response, because of the ideal of innocent until proven guilty, aka assume the best of people, that is why we are quick to defend their innocence, if all we know about people is their good side.

Innocent till proven guilty. I generally agree. No question about that. My issue is that most religious people tend to defend those who share their faith more than those who don't. People who don't are automatically considered evil doers, and devil worshippers, heretics etc....... I am not saying this is the case for everyone. It is not. But it is with most religious people.
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“God has no religion.”
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SolEX01
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« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2012, 11:48:14 PM »

The pharisees were the religious leaders of the time.

Who are the religious leaders of our time?   Do they bully?  Do they often have wealth?   Are those who speak against them strung out, punished, banished, excommunicated?

It's a very important question in this context.  To examine the religious leaders one needs to determine if their behavior is the same as the pharisees.

Example 1: His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I

Does he bully?  Not that I know of.
Does he have wealth?  No.
Do those who speak against him strung out?  No.  punished?  No.  banished?  No.  Excommunicated?  No.

Example 2: His Holiness Patriarch Cyrill of Russia

Does he bully?  I don't know; however, I don't think so.
Does he have wealth?  Yes.
Do those who speak against him strung out?  No.  punished?  By civil courts (e.g. Pussy Riot case).  banished?  No.  Excommunicated?  No.

Example 3: His Beatitude Metropolitan Tikhon of the OCA

Does he bully?  I don't believe so.
Does he have wealth?  No.
Do those who speak against him strung out?  No.  punished?  No.  banished?  No.  Excommunicated?  No.

do you see them behind closed doors though.

By their fruits you shall know them - said Jesus (Matthew 7:16)

What they do behind closed doors is reflected in their public actions - just as the conspiring of the Pharisees resulted in Jesus' crucifixion.
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Punch
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« Reply #48 on: December 29, 2012, 11:34:48 AM »

Quote

It's the public actions that count.  

So, if I kiss my priest's hand every time I see him in public. I am a good christian, even if I wished him ill in my heart for instance?

From what we could see of you, yes. we coudl not know what is within your heart, only how you act and carry yourself

My behaviour, or anyone's behaviour for that matter, is not always an expression of our true self. And our true self in this world full of judgement, doesn't always have an expression. We only reveal to others as much as they can handle. Sometimes less. But never more.

I don't agree.  If you watch someone long enough, the inner self comes out.  Maybe not in fine detail, but usually enough to make some judgements.  And yes, I do believe that we are allowed to make some judgements, as long as they do not pertain to salvation.  If I just watched you cheat someone out of something, I would be perfectly right in deciding that I am not going to trust you for now.  I would cross the line if, in my heart, I had determined that you are a thief and are going to hell. 
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I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
katherineofdixie
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« Reply #49 on: January 02, 2013, 10:32:38 AM »

Innocent till proven guilty. I generally agree. No question about that. My issue is that most religious people tend to defend those who share their faith more than those who don't. People who don't are automatically considered evil doers, and devil worshippers, heretics etc....... I am not saying this is the case for everyone. It is not. But it is with most religious people.

Nonsense. It may be the case with some "religious" people (and how are you defining that term anyway?) but it is also the case with "non-religious" people too, for that matter. I have met plenty of self-proclaimed "atheists" who believe that people of faith are stupid at best and evil at worst.
I know this may sound flippant, but honestly, you need to get out more and meet more people.
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"If but ten of us lead a holy life, we shall kindle a fire which shall light up the entire city."

 St. John Chrysostom
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