OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 21, 2014, 06:42:45 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Few There Be That Find It  (Read 755 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« on: December 29, 2012, 01:39:55 PM »

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matt. 7:13-14

What does this mean?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 01:40:11 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2012, 03:47:56 PM »

This is usually the first passage I think of when we discuss or I think about the hope that all will be saved.
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,384



« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2012, 11:47:24 PM »

I take it as advice and a warning, but I think it should remain within its context. We should not use this verse when we talk about hope, when it actually refers to a description of our path and the (many) dangers and temptations coming from the world. At least, that's how I understand the verse.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 11:49:13 PM by IoanC » Logged

yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,271


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2012, 11:57:08 PM »

I personally believe God's words were spoken to warn us that there is only a small path to salvation.  Consider how many temptations there are that lead to destruction....

I often consider that narrow path to be the one which we will need to "take up our cross and follow him".

It's a beautiful, yet scary passage.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 01:43:30 AM »

"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matt. 7:13-14

What does this mean?

 IF you're interested, I'll give you some info from Fr. Lawrence Farley's Commentary: "The Gospel of Matthew: Torah for the Church" tomorrow after church.

 
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 01:43:45 AM by GabrieltheCelt » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
stavros_388
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: +
Posts: 1,253



« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 10:33:40 AM »

Sure, I'll chime in!

I agree with yeshuaisiam and IoanC. The path to destruction involves all of the passions that prevent theosis (heedlessness, selfishness, pride, sloth, greed, etc). It is much easier to follow our own whims, inclinations, and passions to our own destruction than it is to follow Christ's instructions to deny ourselves, die to ourselves daily, and return to our pre-Fall condition. "The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak." --St. Matthew 26:41.

Personally, I think Christ was stressing the urgency with which we must pursue righteousness, and the dangers of becoming increasingly mired in our passions, selfishness, and "darkness" so much so that salvation becomes (eventually) impossible.

Yet, doesn't Orthodoxy teach that following death, we can continue to grow towards God, as we are taught that our prayers for the dead are heard, and that God is ultimately merciful? So maybe that is reason enough to hope that all will be saved eventually. Only God knows, though.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:37:48 AM by stavros_388 » Logged

"The kingdom of heaven is virtuous life, just as the torment of hell is passionate habits." - St. Gregory of Sinai

"Our idea of God tells us more about ourselves than about Him." - Thomas Merton
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 06:19:44 PM »

This is starting to make more sense to me, thanks!  And yes, I would be interested Gabriel, but only if it's not too much trouble. Smiley
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,071


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 06:51:11 PM »

The mystery of this passage intrigues me too, that and passages like Romans 11:32.  But the result of this passage leads to one of two options:  more diligence or giving up.  I think the intention was for the former.

Whether or not this means all will be saved or not at this moment should not matter.  Perhaps God will judge us by our capabilities and diligence.  But the hope He provides is powerful, and the love He has is strong, and the mercy He offers is true.  So, I would be diligent for that.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 06:53:20 PM by minasoliman » Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2013, 12:34:52 AM »

 And yes, I would be interested Gabriel, but only if it's not too much trouble. Smiley

 No trouble, though I apologize for the tardy reply.

 Matthew 7: 13-14
 "Christ then urges His followers to enter though the narrow gate, even though it is narrow and constricted and thus difficult to squeeze through.  Through it alone is the way leading to life.  They must avoid the temptations to enter through the wide gate, even though the way through it is spacious, for it is the way leading to destruction.
---
 "Christ answers by telling all who would saved to enter through the narrow gate of discipleship to Him.  Opposition from the Pharisees may make it narrow and constricted and so fraught with difficulties that few are those finding it, but it leads to life.  Those who reject Him, choosing popularity over truth and wealth over poverty, may find it easier in this age.  Indeed, that way is spacious and is easy to travel, and the gate is wide and easy to enter, and for this reason many are those entering through it.  Yet, for all that, it leads to distraction.

  Matthew includes this question and response here because it forms a fitting introduction to Jesus' warning against the false prophets, the Pharisaical teachers, which follow it.  Let those who would be saved enter by the narrow gate, and pay no attention to the words of the Pharisees!  They lead men astray, as did the false prophets of old.  (From comparing the parallel in Luke 6:39-44, which is concerned with the Pharisees, the "hypocrite" of Luke 6:42, we see that the Pharisees are the subject of this passage in Matt 7:15-20 also, and that the "false prophets" of 7:15 refers to them.)  The Pharisees' teaching might sound pious enough, but it leads to spiritual death in the end.  Inwardly, their teaching makes them as dangerous as ravenous wolves, even though they come to you in sheep's clothing, using their piety to mask their true nature."

Taken from Fr. Lawrence Farley's Commentary: "The Gospel of Matthew: Torah for the Church" Pages 105 and 106.

  There are many ideas and religions competing for our attention.  Some of them are more attractive and compelling than others.  Many of them will indeed contain bits and pieces of the truth, making them seem less dangerous than they are.  It seems to me that when we read something from another faith tradition that seems to square up with our own, it tends to make us let our defenses down a bit and make us more susceptible and accepting (I am reminded of some of our topics here that deal with "mixing" or "integrating" other teachings with Orthodoxy.)  It's easy to get caught up in something else, especially if we have dear friends who belong to other traditions and/or another tradition catches our fancy.  But to turn our backs on ALL else is indeed narrow (how often are we Christians accused of being "narrow minded"?.  In light of this passage, maybe that's not such a bad thing.)  To become a disciple of Christ, He says, will cost us everything.   
« Last Edit: January 02, 2013, 12:56:03 AM by GabrieltheCelt » Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Posts: 30,094


Goodbye for now, my friend


« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2013, 12:43:53 AM »

Thanks!  Smiley
Logged

Paradosis ≠ Asteriktos ≠ Justin
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.098 seconds with 37 queries.