OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 27, 2014, 02:57:31 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: why are the catholic numbers bigger  (Read 1181 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
arrow prayer
formily isus
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 113



« on: January 29, 2014, 11:40:31 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics
Logged

grace given you in christ jesus
LBK
Moderated
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,505


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 11:50:32 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics

No.
Logged
dzheremi
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,064


« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 11:53:35 PM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Logged

Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Offline Offline

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,530



« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 12:00:02 AM »

There are more Muslims than there are Catholics, so maybe Islam is the way to go? Though we're all syncretists at heart, so really you just have to find your preferred Frankenstein.
Logged

Joe: 'Is it creepy for a 35 year old guy to date a 19 year old girl?'
Desiree: 'Not if she's the one to push for the relationship, babe.'
Joe: 'But...'
Desiree: 'You'll shut up if you're smart.'
Joe: 'Ok.'
Gunnarr
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,749



« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 12:59:01 AM »

well it could be interpreted that way I guess...
Logged

I am a demonic servant! Beware!
lovesupreme
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 783



« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 01:13:06 AM »

The number of adherents of a religion is proportional to how much God likes that religion.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 01:13:31 AM by lovesupreme » Logged
FormerCalvinist
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 142


« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 04:04:04 AM »

St. Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,095


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2014, 04:16:18 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics

The idea of True Faith is determined by the number of adherents?   At one time there were more Eastern Christians than Western Christians but time and the Ottoman Empire made short shrift of the number of countries that were considered Christian in Africa, Balkans, Asia Minor, and the Middle East. 
Logged
xOrthodox4Christx
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,004



« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2014, 04:57:21 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics

Muslims have more people too, that's a sign that God is with Islam.

Allahu Akbar wa lillah al-hamd.
Logged

“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy.” (Chris Hedges)
Severian
God save Egypt, Syria & Iraq
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Coptic/Egyptian Orthodoxy
Posts: 5,039


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Christians

Partisangirl
WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2014, 04:58:24 PM »

Like others have said, there are more Muslims than Catholics, this does not mean Islam is true and Christianity is false. Plus, Christ tells us to enter by the narrow gate for wide is the gate that leads to destruction.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 05:00:41 PM by Severian » Logged

On hiatus from posting. Forgive me if my posts have lacked humility or tact. Note that some of my older posts -especially those prior to late 2012- may not reflect my current views. In the meantime, please pray for my sinful self as I am in a critical and unsure juncture in my life. Thank you.
GabrieltheCelt
Hillbilly Extraordinaire
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,988


Chasin' down a Hoodoo...


« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2014, 05:00:38 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics

 No, not by a long shot.  Not to sound triumphalistic, but when you've been under threat from the Muhammadan Turk and atheist regimes, you're chief concern is to live, not proselytize.
Logged

"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America."  ~Scots-Irish saying
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,447



« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2014, 05:33:19 PM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
augustin717
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: The other ROC
Posts: 5,631



« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2014, 07:54:25 PM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.
Logged
Cyrillic
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 8,999


Ceci n'est pas une pipe


« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 07:58:11 PM »

Back in the days of the Old Testament the Jews were only a tiny part of the population of this planet while the pagans were everywhere. Does that mean that paganism was the way to go?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 07:58:23 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

"Copiare il vero può essere una buona cosa, ma inventare il vero è meglio, molto meglio. "
-Giuseppe Verdi
vasily
Warned
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox church in america
Posts: 189



« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2014, 10:09:32 AM »

I unfortunately find this comment being posted by Catholics who think they are making a major point. It isn't quantity or even quality, but who has been steadfast in keeping the true faith, the traditions and teachings.
There exists a number of books that can be helpful in your search and to answer your questions. Three books I find helpful for basic research are:
The Orthodox Church A to Z- by Fr. George Grube-Light and Life Publishing
Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy- by Fr. Andrew Stephen Damick-by Conciliar Press
Orthodox Christianity-Volume I & II- by Metro. Hilarion Alfeyev-St. Vladimir's Seminary Press

Logged
Jetavan
Most Humble Servant of Pan-Vespuccian and Holocenic Hominids
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Christic
Jurisdiction: Dixie
Posts: 6,404


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2014, 10:25:15 AM »

Back in the days of the Old Testament the Jews were only a tiny part of the population of this planet while the pagans were everywhere. Does that mean that paganism was the way to go?
The Jews had no problems with pagans going the way of paganism.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,095


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2014, 10:28:04 AM »


Most if not all Catholic don't believe in the "numbers" game.  The reason they are bigger is because of many factors.  They have a better Evangelical outreach than the Orthodox.  They use the media better and have a better PR department.....just to name a few.  And they aren't afraid to send hundreds of priests into areas that have need for the Gospels.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 10:28:38 AM by JoeS2 » Logged
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,205



« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2014, 11:05:49 AM »

Back in the days of the Old Testament the Jews were only a tiny part of the population of this planet while the pagans were everywhere. Does that mean that paganism was the way to go?
The Jews had no problems with pagans going the way of paganism.
The Jews had no problems going the way of paganism, either.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Agabus
The user formerly known as Agabus.
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Pan-American Colloquial Convert Hybrid Orthodoxy.
Jurisdiction: We are all uncanonical now.
Posts: 2,205



« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2014, 11:15:31 AM »


Most if not all Catholic don't believe in the "numbers" game.  The reason they are bigger is because of many factors.  They have a better Evangelical outreach than the Orthodox.  They use the media better and have a better PR department.....just to name a few.  And they aren't afraid to send hundreds of priests into areas that have need for the Gospels.
They also have hundreds of priests to send.

And the PR comment is right on, as well. Find a news story written about an Orthodox mission opening in any part of the U.S. outside of New England and the rust belt, and they all have the same tone of, "Well, gee golly, look how exotic this is -- Russians! In our town! With their own church!"

I hate the crass talk of marketing, but really it falls on us to present ourselves better. Until we figure out what Orthodox mission means in the present-day context  (and just as to the point, in our geographical context), it'll stay that way.
Logged

Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH
Christopher McAvoy
Never forget the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate & all persecuted christians!
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: orthodóxis, atque cathólice et apostólice fídei
Jurisdiction: Latin Catholic from the 12th c.
Posts: 443



WWW
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2014, 01:01:08 AM »

Catholics have more because they have more money and politcal freedom.
In Eastern Europe, Western Asia and North Africa there was intense political turmoil and poverty that has hindered the growth of the faith there.

Neither roman catholics or orthodox have yet to convert any moslem country entirely back to christian belief.
Most of the native peoples of south america in rurual areas are still pagan to this day.
In the case of Guatemala, where some of my family once lived, they are actually converting some maya for the first time ever in history!

These days the playing field for growth and conversion is gradually more equal again between both sides.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 01:02:31 AM by Christopher McAvoy » Logged

"and for all who are Orthodox, and who hold the Catholic and Apostolic Faith, remember, O Lord, thy servants" - yet the post-conciliar RC hierarchy is tolerant of everyone and everything... except Catholic Tradition, for modernists are as salt with no taste, to be “thrown out and trampled under foot
frjohnmorris
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,177


« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2014, 01:09:45 AM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.

No it did not. We did not send soldiers to colonies like the Spanish in Latin America and force the population to convert to Orthodoxy. No Orthodox country had colonies except for Alaska. We did not have an inquisition to threaten to torture people and burn non-Orthodox at the stake.

Fr. John W. Morris
Logged
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2014, 01:51:13 AM »

They have a solid mergers and acquisitions department.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 01:51:26 AM by William » Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox. With some feta, please.
Posts: 6,624



« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2014, 03:42:39 AM »

Neither roman catholics or orthodox have yet to convert any moslem country entirely back to christian belief.

Serbia (formerly Ottoman), Russia (formerly Mongol) etc.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 03:45:42 AM by Alpo » Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,095


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2014, 08:52:13 AM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.

No it did not. We did not send soldiers to colonies like the Spanish in Latin America and force the population to convert to Orthodoxy. No Orthodox country had colonies except for Alaska. We did not have an inquisition to threaten to torture people and burn non-Orthodox at the stake.

Fr. John W. Morris

Interesting point you make Father.  The Conquistadors were sent in to take over a country then the priests came in right behind to evangelize.  I don't recall ever this being the system of the Orthodox Christians when they evangelized.....   
Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,095


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2014, 08:53:37 AM »

Neither roman catholics or orthodox have yet to convert any moslem country entirely back to christian belief.

Serbia (formerly Ottoman), Russia (formerly Mongol) etc.

Serbia, converted to Orthodoxy, conquered by the Ottomans, and then back to Orthodoxy after a war.
Logged
Ersaia
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 284



« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2014, 10:12:26 AM »

I think you forgot languages and the number of people who spoke them also


as for colonies etc
in my tiny Greek Orthodox country you will find a few catholics only in places where other countries had power and people in past (Franks), usually some islands
their number is small
The greek catholics are the 0.5%  of people 50.000 as I read in their site and you will find 8.000 in island Syros and 3000 in island Tinos and 2500 in island Corfu. All these islands had many Franks in past


Now we live in another era. The era of internet. And we will see many converts to Orthodoxy in future. But the language is important in this era. English is the "koine" language now and most Orthodox people don't have english as mother tongue. As orthodox english speaking people expand the Orthodoxy will expand



« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 10:13:54 AM by Ersaia » Logged
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 387



« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2014, 10:36:34 AM »

Yes. At least from a certain point of view.
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,447



« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2014, 12:46:45 PM »

Catholics have more because they have more money and politcal freedom.
In Eastern Europe, Western Asia and North Africa there was intense political turmoil and poverty that has hindered the growth of the faith there.

Neither roman catholics or orthodox have yet to convert any moslem country entirely back to christian belief.
Malta.  Spain. Portugal.  Crete.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,107



« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2014, 07:57:27 AM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).

On a side note, I find the "It's because God is with us" reasoning a particularly interesting one, since the same groups will also say "We're more persecuted than anyone else, so we must have the truth."

:hmmm:
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,839


« Reply #29 on: March 19, 2014, 09:34:32 AM »

From St. Nikolai of Zica, Prologue of Ohrid, March 10th

Quote
When the forty-two Greek commanders from Ammoria were in Agaha's prison (refer to March 6), certain Muslim sages came to counsel them to embrace the faith of Mohammed and thereby receive their freedom. These sages stressed to theseChristian commanders the two advantages of Islam over Christianity: First: Mohammed is a more recent prophet than Christ and, Second: the Muslims were victorious on all sides over Christianity by which God clearly points out the truth of their religion. To the first point, the commanders replied, "If two men are debating over a field, and one has many witnesses that the field is his and the other does not have any witnesses except his own personal statement, what do you think? Whose field is it?" To this the Agha's men replied, "By all means, the field is his who had many witnesses." To that, the commanders replied, "By yourselves you have judged in favor of Christ and against Mohammed for Christ had with Him the witnesses of all the Prophets and Apostles, but Mohammed alone witnesses to himself." To the second point, the commanders replied, "If you would gauge the truth of a faith by victories in wars, then this would mean that all the idolatrous nations, who from time to time have conquered the world, such as the Persians, Greeks, Romans and others, possessed the true faith. This, even you Muslims would never acknowledge. And because you have been victorious over the Christians now, this does not mean that your faith is better; rather, that our sins are greater and because of this, God punishes us, through you."

http://www.stnicholasredbank.org/march9-16.htm
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:35:24 AM by jah777 » Logged
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 387



« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2014, 04:51:47 PM »

All this Persians, Greeks and Romans, had a high developed spirituality.
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
MichaelTheYounger
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch (Archdiocese of North America)
Posts: 44


http://twitter.com/iizcat
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2014, 10:25:00 AM »

there are only a few orthodox countries, there are way more catholics.
isn't that a sign that God is more with Catholics

I would be inclined to agree with dzheremi. Catholicism came to dominate the Western world, and I think you could probably make a strong historical argument that imperial expansion, the fact that the Catholic Church made Latin its official language and was spoken everywhere in the Catholic Roman Empire, and then also the fact that there has always been an imbalance of political power between the Western and Eastern hemispheres to account for the difference in size. An apparent fault of the Orthodox Church has been a certain degree of ethnic parochialism as well, which may be a result of attacks from the West, attempts by the Roman church to force the pre-schism Eastern church to Latinize, the Crusades, and then also attacks from Muslims and the sacking of Constantinople. I don't think its absurd to suppose that because of discrimination and even violence from the Latin West and the Muslim East, the effect has been that the Eastern Church has become somewhat insular - a pretty understandable consequence of its history of relations with other groups (I don't want to indict the Church though - many good efforts to evangelize have taken place. It is, after all, the Church of Peter and Paul. My parish actually is a great mixture of Arabs, Greeks, Ethiopians, a convert from Islam, and other converts and everyone eats together and is in fellowship. We're so lucky to have such a welcoming parish that doesn't take much notice of ethnic boundaries!).

Also, the official statistics no doubt include in its ranks many who are not actually believing or practicing Catholics. As a convert coming from the RCC, I know first hand that there are so many poorly-catechized "Catholics" these days who can barely even follow the liturgy, don't know the Creed by heart, don't believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, and some times don't even know that Jesus is both fully man and fully God. I would hazard a guess that there are tens of thousands of these sorts who identify as Catholic, or those who have hardly ever been to Mass but come from a predominantly Catholic family and so think that that makes them Catholic. I think the data are skewed. Anyway, I certainly don't think that the fact that the Catholic Church has more adherents means it is more favoured by God. It's a consequence of history.
Logged

"A time is coming when men will go mad, and when they see someone who is not mad, they will attack him, saying, 'You are mad; you are not like us.'" -St. Anthony the Great
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Warned
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 37,447



« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2014, 10:51:12 AM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.
Oh?  Who conquered the Romanians and converted them?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
frjohnmorris
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 1,177


« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2014, 12:31:30 PM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.
Oh?  Who conquered the Romanians and converted them?

You can get a lot of converts when you march into a primitive village with an army and tell the people they must people convert to Roman Catholicism or they will be killed, and then make them slaves who are forced to convert which is exactly what the Spanish did.

Fr. John W. Morris
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 12:32:35 PM by frjohnmorris » Logged
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 387



« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2014, 02:59:20 PM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.
Oh?  Who conquered the Romanians and converted them?

Marcus Ulpius Nerva Traianus and colonised a part of it.
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Basil 320
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, Holy Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,018



« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2014, 03:42:23 PM »

Traditional Eastern Orthodox lands have been substantially victimized by the conquest of heathens.

-Moslem Arab hordes conquered and have dominated the Mideast beginning in the 7th century.
 Moslem persecution has reduced the Mideast to a handful of Orthodox Christians in the past several decades.
-Rome's 4th Crusade sacked Constantinople in 1204.
-Moslem Turks conquered and suppressed the substantially Orthodox Byzantine Empire for 400+ years,       beginning in the 15th century.
-Bolshevik Communism persecuted Orthodox Russia for 74 years, decimating the number of Orthodox     Christians, beginning in 1917.
-The same Communist barbarians persecuted primarily Orthodox Eastern European States for 44 years beginning in 1946.


Russia---the by far largest nation of Orthodox Christians accounting for perhaps 1/3rd of the Orthodox Christian population, Georgia, Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania are still finding their way as relatively free Democratic Republics, 24 years later, having had no history as such a government. This is where the bulk of Orthodox Christians reside.

It's a wonder Orthodox Christianity survived this suppression and can claim 270 million adherents today, the second largest Christian denomination in the world.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 03:44:54 PM by Basil 320 » Logged

"...Strengthen the Orthodox Community..."
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Online Online

Posts: 387



« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2014, 04:53:37 PM »

The Moslems turned around in Romania.
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,095


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2014, 05:10:30 PM »

Truth will survive even if its down to the last church on earth.......
Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2014, 05:58:31 PM »

No. Why would you suppose that? The RCC grew outside of Europe as a result of imperial expansion connected to the particular powers that carved up much of the world during the age of exploration (e.g., French in North and Central Africa, Spanish in South America, Portuguese in India, etc.), not because God is somehow more with them than with other religions (just think of all the places where there are very few Catholic churches; not only in predominantly Orthodox countries, but in predominantly Muslim, Buddhist, Protestant, etc. ones).
Orthodoxy expanded the same way. Really. When it expanded.
Oh?  Who conquered the Romanians and converted them?

You can get a lot of converts when you march into a primitive village with an army and tell the people they must people convert to Roman Catholicism or they will be killed, and then make them slaves who are forced to convert which is exactly what the Spanish did.

Fr. John W. Morris

To which I might add a good reading of the history of what happened to the refugees that fled pre-1453 Constantinople and environs. Those who went west, notably to Venice but elsewhere in Italy as well, were not allowed to practice as Orthodox Christians (when they were allowed a church at all) and certainly under no Orthodox bishops. Sad reading.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.131 seconds with 66 queries.