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Author Topic: Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?  (Read 2005 times) Average Rating: 0
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kx9
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« on: December 31, 2012, 02:32:36 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 02:35:21 PM by kx9 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2012, 02:38:25 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?
The Roman Catholic Church does not name Transubstantiation as a Sacrament; rather, Transubstantiation is merely a Latin way of defining how the consecrated bread and wine of the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, a way of describing the Real Presence.
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« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2012, 02:40:10 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?

No, because transsubstantiation isn't a sacrament.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 02:41:09 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2012, 02:42:12 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?
The Roman Catholic Church does not name Transubstantiation as a Sacrament; rather, Transubstantiation is merely a Latin way of defining how the consecrated bread and wine of the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Christ, a way of describing the Real Presence.

Ah, okay, I was referring to the consecrated Eucharist in the RCC.

Is the RCC's Eucharist a valid Sacrament (in the eyes of the EOC)?
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« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2012, 02:43:15 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?

No, because transsubstantiation isn't a sacrament.

Okay, I was referring to the consecrated Eucharist in the RCC. Is it a valid Sacrament or not in the eyes of the EOC?
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2012, 02:45:26 PM »

It depends. I don't but some do. It doesn't really matter since we shouldn't partake in RC Eucharist.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 02:45:42 PM by Alpo » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2012, 02:46:18 PM »

Does the EOC accept the RCC's Transubstantiation as a valid Sacrament?

If not, why?

No, because transsubstantiation isn't a sacrament.

Okay, I was referring to the consecrated Eucharist in the RCC. Is it a valid Sacrament or not in the eyes of the EOC?

IIRC they don't have any official viewpoint on it.
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2012, 02:49:35 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...
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« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 02:53:52 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
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« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 02:55:50 PM »

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

Nope, Greeks like souvlaki better, the Russians prefer borscht.
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« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 02:56:00 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

 laugh laugh

Well...some would say yes, some would say no... Grin
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« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 03:01:13 PM »

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

Nope, Greeks like souvlaki better, the Russians prefer borscht.

Souvlaki and borscht have no connection with Christianity.

That post was about the different Orthodox Churches's view of doctrinal issues and religious matters. Souvlaki and borscht excluded here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 03:01:56 PM by kx9 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 03:03:25 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

BTW, if you want to define as "all issues" all issues dogmatic, then please say so. Otherwise, "all issues" means everything, including whether to eat souvlaki or borscht.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 03:05:34 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 03:04:07 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

 laugh laugh

Well...some would say yes, some would say no... Grin

Hmm...
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« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 03:05:13 PM »

That post was about the different Orthodox Churches's view of doctrinal issues and religious matters. Souvlaki and borscht excluded here.

Why should the EO have an official position on the RC Eucharist? Should they have an official position on the Lutheran and Anglican Eucharist as well?
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« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2012, 03:05:31 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

The Orthodox agree on dogmatic matters. On non-dogmatic matters there is some leeway, as with practical matters. So far as I understand, up to this point God has chosen to let things remain muddy when it comes to things like the Catholics having grace-filled sacraments. My patron saint is turning over in his grave right now, but I think it's so. There simply is a difference of opinions (more than two, btw) on this subject.
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« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2012, 03:05:58 PM »

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

Nope, Greeks like souvlaki better, the Russians prefer borscht.

Souvlaki and borscht have no connection with Christianity.

That post was about the different Orthodox Churches's view of doctrinal issues and religious matters. Souvlaki and borscht excluded here.

Wait a minute.... Shocked  Are you telling us that souvlaki and borscht are *not* Sacraments  Huh Shocked Huh  IS OUTRAGE!!!!
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« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2012, 03:06:30 PM »

My patron saint is turning over in his grave right now

Now you've gotten me all curious. Who's rolling in his grave?
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« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2012, 03:07:31 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.
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« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2012, 03:07:46 PM »

My patron saint is turning over in his grave right now

Now you've gotten me all curious. Who's rolling in his grave?

His patron saint.  Cool
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« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2012, 03:08:10 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.

Asking for a website to learn about Orthodoxy? Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

My patron saint is turning over in his grave right now

Now you've gotten me all curious. Who's rolling in his grave?

His patron saint.  Cool

 Tongue
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« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2012, 03:09:48 PM »

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

Nope, Greeks like souvlaki better, the Russians prefer borscht.

Souvlaki and borscht have no connection with Christianity.

That post was about the different Orthodox Churches's view of doctrinal issues and religious matters. Souvlaki and borscht excluded here.

Wait a minute.... Shocked  Are you telling us that souvlaki and borscht are *not* Sacraments  Huh Shocked Huh  IS OUTRAGE!!!!

Sorry, I haven't heard of souvlaki and borscht in the Orthodox Church.

I looked them up in a dictionary.

Souvlaki : Any of various Greek dishes made with lamb grilled on a skewer

Borscht : A Russian or Polish soup usually containing beet juice as a foundation


I fail to see how these are Sacraments. Please enlighten me.
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« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2012, 03:09:55 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.

What, precisely, is it that you want to learn?

Why don't you try some books first?  Or..attend Divine Liturgy and/or Mass and talk with a priest.  And read some books.
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« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2012, 03:10:57 PM »

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.

Nope, Greeks like souvlaki better, the Russians prefer borscht.

Souvlaki and borscht have no connection with Christianity.

That post was about the different Orthodox Churches's view of doctrinal issues and religious matters. Souvlaki and borscht excluded here.

Wait a minute.... Shocked  Are you telling us that souvlaki and borscht are *not* Sacraments  Huh Shocked Huh  IS OUTRAGE!!!!

Sorry, I haven't heard of souvlaki and borscht in the Orthodox Church.

I looked them up in a dictionary.

Souvlaki : Any of various Greek dishes made with lamb grilled on a skewer

Borscht : A Russian or Polish soup usually containing beet juice as a foundation


I fail to see how these are Sacraments. Please enlighten me.

It was a joke.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2012, 03:16:25 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.
Another website is not going to help you if you won't first open your mind to another point of view.
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« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2012, 03:17:16 PM »


Sorry, I haven't heard of souvlaki and borscht in the Orthodox Church.

I looked them up in a dictionary.

Souvlaki : Any of various Greek dishes made with lamb grilled on a skewer

Borscht : A Russian or Polish soup usually containing beet juice as a foundation


I fail to see how these are Sacraments. Please enlighten me.

Lawl.
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« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2012, 03:18:32 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

BTW, if you want to define as "all issues" all issues dogmatic, then please say so. Otherwise, "all issues" means everything, including whether to eat souvlaki or borscht.

Alright. I press the "all issues dogmatic" button. What next?
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« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2012, 03:20:59 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

BTW, if you want to define as "all issues" all issues dogmatic, then please say so. Otherwise, "all issues" means everything, including whether to eat souvlaki or borscht.

Alright. I press the "all issues dogmatic" button. What next?
Maybe take some time to answer my last question on this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48961.0.html  Wink
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 03:21:09 PM by PeterTheAleut » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2012, 03:22:22 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.
Another website is not going to help you if you won't first open your mind to another point of view.

I was a spiritually dead Catholic for many years until a Protestant website opened the Gospel of Jesus to my eyes.

By all means, give me the website and I'll see if the Lord opens my mind to another point of view.
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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2012, 03:24:16 PM »

I've lost track of what the question is... I think we answered the original one and have moved on, but I'm not sure what to...  Cheesy Huh
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

BTW, if you want to define as "all issues" all issues dogmatic, then please say so. Otherwise, "all issues" means everything, including whether to eat souvlaki or borscht.

Alright. I press the "all issues dogmatic" button. What next?
Maybe take some time to answer my last question on this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48961.0.html  Wink

I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2012, 03:27:24 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
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« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2012, 03:28:04 PM »

I've lost track of what the question is... I think we answered the original one and have moved on, but I'm not sure what to...  Cheesy Huh
^ This.
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« Reply #33 on: December 31, 2012, 03:28:23 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

BTW, if you want to define as "all issues" all issues dogmatic, then please say so. Otherwise, "all issues" means everything, including whether to eat souvlaki or borscht.

Alright. I press the "all issues dogmatic" button. What next?
Maybe take some time to answer my last question on this thread: http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,48961.0.html  Wink

I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.
I asked you the question based on what you shared of your point of view. Therefore, only an answer from you will satisfy the curiosity that prompted my question.
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« Reply #34 on: December 31, 2012, 03:30:23 PM »

I've lost track of what the question is... I think we answered the original one and have moved on, but I'm not sure what to...  Cheesy Huh
^ This.

It feels like we're all in a speeding Formula One car without a steering wheel. Nobody knows where we'll end up but we're going fast and everything is out of control.
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« Reply #35 on: December 31, 2012, 03:33:40 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

He's a formerly spiritually dead Catholic with eyes opened by Protestant website Gospel un-official not really a Protestant Protestant Catholic inquiring about...uh...something.  Or something like that. Wink
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« Reply #36 on: December 31, 2012, 03:35:16 PM »

Some would say yes, some would say no...

Why the different viewpoints? I thought all the Orthodox Churches (Greek, Russian, Ukrainian...etc) agree with each other on all issues.
Shows how little you truly understand the Orthodox Church.

Well, show me a website to hop around and learn some more.
Another website is not going to help you if you won't first open your mind to another point of view.

I was a spiritually dead Catholic for many years until a Protestant website opened the Gospel of Jesus to my eyes.

By all means, give me the website and I'll see if the Lord opens my mind to another point of view.
You're on a website where you can learn more about the Orthodox Church if only you will open your mind to what others here say and stop dodging those questions you find hard to answer.
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« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2012, 03:35:41 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

I'm officially a "Catholic", but I disagree with Catholic doctrines (which are rejected by the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants).
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« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2012, 03:36:07 PM »

I've lost track of what the question is... I think we answered the original one and have moved on, but I'm not sure what to...  Cheesy Huh
^ This.

It feels like we're all in a speeding Formula One car without a steering wheel. Nobody knows where we'll end up but we're going fast and everything is out of control.



The temptation to inject politics here is almost overwhelming  Grin Grin Grin.  But, with God's grace, I'll resist it.  Wink
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #39 on: December 31, 2012, 03:36:32 PM »

As it is written:

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, or a protestant website in an obscure corner of the internet preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be anathema."
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 03:38:03 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #40 on: December 31, 2012, 03:37:31 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

I'm officially a "Catholic", but I disagree with Catholic doctrines (which are rejected by the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants).


Which doctrines do you reject, and why?  What is your authority for your rejection of them?
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"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
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« Reply #41 on: December 31, 2012, 03:38:22 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

He's a formerly spiritually dead Catholic with eyes opened by Protestant website Gospel un-official not really a Protestant Protestant Catholic inquiring about...uh...something.  Or something like that. Wink

I'm a born-again Christian.
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« Reply #42 on: December 31, 2012, 03:39:23 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

I'm officially a "Catholic", but I disagree with Catholic doctrines (which are rejected by the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants).


Which doctrines do you reject, and why?  What is your authority for your rejection of them?

You know which Catholic doctrines are rejected by the EO and Protestants. Then why ask me?
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Cyrillic
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« Reply #43 on: December 31, 2012, 03:40:43 PM »


I'm not "officially" a Protestant.

I'll leave a protestant to answer your question there. Or perhaps I might answer it on a later date.

So if you're not a Protestant what are you? You clearly aren't a Roman Catholic or an Eastern Orthodox Christian.

I'm officially a "Catholic", but I disagree with Catholic doctrines (which are rejected by the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants).


Which doctrines do you reject, and why?  What is your authority for your rejection of them?

You know which Catholic doctrines are rejected by the EO and Protestants. Then why ask me?

So you only reject the doctrines of the Catholics that the EO reject? Doesn't that pretty much make you Eastern Orthodox?

I'm a born-again Christian.

So am I. I was baptised a few weeks or so after my birth so my being born-again followed pretty quickly on me being born.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 03:42:25 PM by Cyrillic » Logged

"Eheu fugaces, Postume, Postume,
labuntur anni"
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« Reply #44 on: December 31, 2012, 03:41:23 PM »

As it is written:

"But even if we, or an angel from heaven, or a protestant website in an obscure corner of the internet preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be anathema."

Ah, well. Ask PeterTheAleut. He has questioned me about the Gospel that I have received on another thread, I gave him the answer and and he has verified that it is the right Gospel that I received. i.e, he did not find any problem with it.
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